Use the Google framework or jump right into Django?

[detz]

I've written a quick app using the Google walk through and all though
I don't know Python it was pretty easy. I'm ready to take the next
step and convert an existing app to this but I'm not sure if I should
stick with the Google framework or jump right over and start using
Django. Any big difference or is it preference? So from a newbie
standpoint would I see a difference?

[Brett Morgan]

Django is more capable than GAE's webapp, but then django wasn't
designed to be on top of DataStore.

I expect over the coming months that the python web frameworks will
either become GAE aware, or split into GAE and stand alone versions.
But that takes time.

I suspect for the moment that coding on top of GAE's libs will cause
the least headache.

[Jarek Zgoda]

You will. The functionality of Django GAE offers is severely stripped-
down and limited by what-you-can-do. Your application you write for
GAE deployment will not work anywhere else without serious rewrite.
Now it makes no difference, but if Google start charging for GAE
(would it be cheaper than, say, Slicehost with its $20/mo per 256MB
VPS?, who knows?), you'd end with application bound to GAE.

In my opinion, if you want to develop for GAE, go with GAE, but if you
want to develop for general web, stick with plain Django and look for
cheap hosting, like WebFaction.

[detz]

If I was going to develop off Google I wouldn't use Python! ;) I'm a
Perl guy. So, I guess If I'm going to use GAE I might as well use
their stuff right?

[Brett Morgan]

When in Rome...

[reddknight]

I am at the same crossroads, except that I am using Django elsewhere.
At first my thinking was, well, if I don't get the (very helpful)
admin and generic views due to the ORM difference, then what's the
point? Then I found myself wishing for some of the simpler
conveniences and conventions of Django, which I would probably end up
emulating with GAE. Then there is the Django template usage already
there.

Having seen Dick Wall's Django-ized guestbook app (elsewhere in the
group) I will probably go this route, if for no other reason than less
confusion for me. If you're not already using Django, then you may as
well go with GAE and you will probably not throw away much learning if
you decide to go to Django in the future.

On Apr 9, 7:26 am, detz <ryandet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've written a quick app using the Google walk through and all though
> I don't know Python it was pretty easy. I'm ready to take the next
> step and convert an existing app to this but I'm not sure if I should

> stick with the Google framework or jump right over and start usingDjango. Any big difference or is it preference? So from a newbie

[Dennis]

I'm a php guy (with a little non-web python knowledge) looking into
this new tech stack.
I've gone through the GAE helloworld stuff and liked it.

I was going to start the django book since I assumed there was
something there I could use
(atleast some coding conventions for object oriented web development),
but this thread seems to imply I should start building on top of the
GAE webapp.WSGIApplication
because nothing in django is going to apply to GAE (o-r mapping, admin
interface, url mapping, caching, and i18n. Only django template can
be used).
No ajax forms libraries, no sequenced forms, no input/output filters
in django or other the python frameworks that can be used in GAE?

> > standpoint would I see a difference?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Brett Morgan]

A lot of python web app crews are modifying their code bases to work
with GAE. I'd be reasonably surprised if the Django crew don't go down
this path. But, I suspect the first book you need to read is Mark
Pilgrim's python intro:

http://diveintopython.org/

I own it and heartily recommend it.

[Peter Svensson]

I would really recommend to download Dojo and/or Ext and modify the basic examples using Ajax calls to a server, to use one of your bindings, instead, so you have maybe;

apps_binding.append(('/test', Test))

and then

class Test(webapp.RequestHandler):
  def get(self):
    title = self.request.get('title')

And in you Ajax client (stored under /static, defined as ;

- url: /static
  static_dir: static

in the app.yaml file) .


Then in you page (using Dojo) which is a normal HTML page, being provided by you GAE app, you can write;

<script>
       function helloCallback(data,ioArgs) {
          alert(data);
       }       
       function helloError(data, ioArgs) {
          alert('Error when retrieving data from the server!');
       }
</script>

and

<script type="dojo/method" event="onClick">
   dojo.xhrGet({
        url: '/test?title=mybook',
        load: helloCallback,
        error: helloError
   });
</script>


That way you don't need to use any seerver-side tempalting at all;

1) The code gets overall simpler, with one direcotry for the 'client' and one for the server
2) Changes to one side cannot break the other, unless the protocol is broken
3) The client is made as no-magic html/js/css pages.
4) The server handes only core logic, and gets thinner and simpler.

[Dennis]

Thanks for the reference to diveintopython.org book -- it's a great
book!
The question is: after that book, then what?

Learn Django? Just start coding and create my own mvc on top?
There are other python frameworks also
(some are listed at http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/gettingstarted/usingwebapp.html
+ turbogears)

I went to the django irc channel but did not get much response about
GAE support.

Well, I guess there is no clear path. That's the way it is, if you
want to work on bleeding edge technology.
I just thought I'd get a sense about what others are doing (or
building on top of)

> >  > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Dennis]

In terms of frameworks for GAE, I just found gaengo: http://code.google.com/p/gaengo/

that's just being hatched now:
http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/browse_thread/thread/0358c47cfc9bda90/cece8f9b683e4848#cece8f9b683e4848

On Apr 16, 12:30 pm, Dennis <dennisf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the reference to diveintopython.org book -- it's a great
> book!
> The question is: after that book, then what?
>
> Learn Django?  Just start coding and create my own mvc on top?
> There are other python frameworks also

> (some are listed athttp://code.google.com/appengine/docs/gettingstarted/usingwebapp.html

[Greg Pasquariello]

Check out webpy (http://webpy.org/).  It's lighter weight than django and I've read here (or somewhere) that it's working on GAE.

Regards

-Greg Pasquariello

W: http://gpasq.wordpress.com

[Michael Brunton-Spall]

Just for the record,  I'm writing my MMO on GAE in django, just because it's the only python framework I'm familiar with.
To be honest, so far I think GAE has pulled out most of the killer features of Django (the admin interface, the Database Models, authentication middleware), but the url mapper is nice, I'm using that, and the templating system, GAE's django model implementation, the nice well designed structure etc.

I've not used any other python frameworks, so I can't say how it stacks up, but I've found it incredibly easy to just get started. Of course thanks to the total mind shift that BigTable brings I've had to rewrite my models about 4 times now, as I get used to I'm sure I'll get better.

Michael

--
Michael Brunton-Spall
http://www.mibgames.co.uk