GAE will hurt Linux unless...

[Amir Michail]

Hi,

I suspect that the Google App Engine (and cloud computing more
generally) will have the unintended effect of significantly reducing
usage of Linux among web developers.

The solution of course is for Google to release a user-friendly and
slick Google OS built on top of Linux that makes the web the main
source of apps.

But even that's not enough since many people (even web devs) play
games on Windows... and linux cannot compete at all in that regard.
One could argue that the shift towards game consoles is making Windows
less important for games, but that will take time...

Amir

[OkaMthembo]

Well said, Amir. I tend to agree that we need a Linux distro thats slick enough to take on Windows, maybe even Mac OS, so that a significant number of web devs may be more comfortable in a Linux environment. I personally would love to do all my web dev on Linux, but until theres a Photoshop equivalent for example, i have to switch between OSes.

--
Lloyd Dube

[Amir Michail]

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Amir Michail <amic...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I suspect that the Google App Engine (and cloud computing more
> generally) will have the unintended effect of significantly reducing
> usage of Linux among web developers.
>
> The solution of course is for Google to release a user-friendly and
> slick Google OS built on top of Linux that makes the web the main
> source of apps.
>

Also, I think Google will have to adopt Silverlight or build/adopt a
competitor (a multilingual Flash?).

I am skeptical that Javascript can be used to build graphics-intensive
applications.

Amir

> But even that's not enough since many people (even web devs) play
> games on Windows... and linux cannot compete at all in that regard.
> One could argue that the shift towards game consoles is making Windows
> less important for games, but that will take time...
>
> Amir
>
>

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[yejun]

GAE runs on linux, so I couldn't see any reason linux will be hurt.

[Amir Michail]

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 5:06 PM, yejun <yej...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> GAE runs on linux, so I couldn't see any reason linux will be hurt.

GAE will cut down the number of people familiar with and directly
using Linux even if it ends up increasing the number of Linux web
servers.

Amir

[yejun]

There's no such thing as directly using linux.

[SELVAKUMAR MUTHUSAMY]

I don't think so, b'coz linux and its usage in app dev domain is a vast area and it cannot be
beaten degraded by GAE. May be in games domain and the pkgs like photoshop could besome exceptions, but as a dev. platform
point of view *nix operating systems will have its own image.  I have worked in linux and now working in windows platform,
Still Iam starving for the linux environment support for my regular activities.

[kang]

support   google os

--
Stay hungry,Stay foolish.

[thuan]

For casual computer users, GAE will have a very small impact on Linux
adoption; a bigger impact would be hords of low-cost netbooks running
on some linux distros. If GAE gains popularity, new web developpers
will tend to adopt the Python programming language and somehow, get
the fact that developing in Python might be easier on a linux
platform. My 2c.

[Jon Watte]

Why does this matter?
Linux will be available for as long as Linux solves a real problem in
a cost effective way.
Windows will be available for as long as Windows solves a real problem
in a cost effective way.
Google App Engine will be available for as long as Google App Engine
solves a real problem in a cost effective way.
Repeat for all other technologies.
Slide rules were among us while they solved a real problem in a cost
effective way. Did slide rule affecionados complained when the pocket
calculator came around?
If GAE is a pocket calculator, and something else is a slide rule,
then the slide rule will die, and it will be a good thing. (Note: I'm
not necessarily saying Linux is a slide rule)
Btw: it's interesting to see that Microsoft Azure takes almost exactly
the same approach as Google App Engine: You have to write new
applications using a new technology and APIs to deploy onto their
cloud, just like with Google App Engine. Meanwhile, Amazon ECC makes
it possible to incrementally migrate your existing applications to a
cloud without any large up-front re-development investment. History
shows that the Amazon approach has a 95% chance of "winning," assuming
it's even a competition and people actually don't need to have their
infrastructure in their own server closets or co-lo cages.

[Will Klein]

Pushing Google OS seems to be your main point... which is fine, except
I strongly disagree with the rationale that GAE "hurts" Linux. I
strongly agree with thuan. In fact, I think GAE may have a net
positive effect on Linux overall.

Boosting Python will increase a skill-set that allows for cross-
platform development in terms of the desktop. I long considered
learning Python because I wanted to write some apps that would work on
both Windows (my desktop OS) and Linux (my web hosting OS). GAE may
finally push me over the edge to start using Python. Also, by
providing an easy to use web platform GAE may attract VB.NET and C#
devs or newbies that would otherwise run Microsoft technologies.

What do we lose because of GAE? We are not working in the OS to setup
and configure our web servers and dependencies. This is already
abstracted on most web hosts... cPanel and its add-ons let you develop
apps without touching the command line or getting gritty with server
configuration. That's OK. The transition to Linux and Linux-based
technologies should be easier. When I setup my web servers I am often
slowed down by the intricacies of configuration, trying to navigate a
command line and configuring files. I would rather be producing
working applications. Developing in C# and .NET is very competitive in
enabling quick results without a lot of hassle up-front. GAE counters
that nicely.

[Adam Crossland]

A very well-thought-out and reasonable response, Will.

[Bill]

On Dec 3, 12:23 pm, Amir Michail <amich...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The solution of course is for Google to release a user-friendly and
> slick Google OS built on top of Linux that makes the web the main
> source of apps.

Strange you should mention that. A recent article wonders if there's
an internal Google OS:
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/print.php/3788821

About a third of the Google employees were using systems that
specifically blocked detection of their browser's OS. Still a big
leap to their conclusion, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true.

And I agree with a couple of the other posters that GAE won't hurt
Linux use among web developers. A strong GAE platform is very
friendly to a variety of web dev OSes, and Windows loses much of its
advantages.