GC controlling wahoo kickr erg mode.

[comb filter]

Hello.

I am wondering what I am doing wrong.  I have the latest GC installed and the latest 1.4.xxx firmware on my kickr.   GC can see my kickr and I can add it to the "trainers" tab on the far right of preferences.  I went to add Ant + FC devices and it found the Ant+ id to my kickr.  Great.   I can download .erg files to GC from the internet..Great.  I can load those .erg workouts and even create my own.  Great.   While in those workouts I see my data /power/etc from my kickr show up.  So everything is reading fine.  The issue is that GC is not sending erg commands to my kickr to make the resistance harder.  So lets say the workout has you riding at 180w for 5min then after that 5min it wants you to do 300w for 1min.  When that 1min min interval starts in GC nothing happens on my kickr.  The resistance doesn't change and everything stays the same.   I know the erg functionality part of my kickr works because zwift will make it harder when I climb or I can even use the little wahoo utility from my phone and set the erg mode there and it will change the resistance.  

I did notice that there's a sub tab in the area where you add your trainers.  Like where all their ant + ids show up.. I forget the name of the tab (sorry i am at work).  Basically in this tab there was about 8 drop down menus that looked like I could maybe assign commands there.  Is that something I need to mess with?  I can't find any info in the GC site/ or manual about these commands.  

Thanks for any help.

comb

[comb filter]

crickets... 

[Mark Liversedge]

Is the kickr selected when running a workout and is it running the latest version of firmware that supports FEC ?

On Wednesday, 7 December 2016 15:11:43 UTC, comb filter wrote:

crickets... 

[Mike]

Also when you add your device make sure you select the FE-C device type and see that your ANT+ id of the kickr appears, this is what gets GC to control the kickr.

[comb filter]

Yes, the kickr is selected and shows the proper ant+ ID under the ant+ FC settings.. 

Do I need to do anything under the tab next to that one that says "remote settings"?  All of those drop downs are just set to none.  

Thanks,

[comb filter]

Yep, I see the ant + id for the kickr.. I actually made sure it was the kickr id and not my quarq.  

[tigg...@gmail.com]

I've finally decided to have a go at controlling my kickr from GC. I can see the ID number, have the latest firmware, can see power and speed. But it's not changing resistance automatically.

[Mike]

One other thing I did (not sure if its required) on the last page down the bottom you can select something about "defaults" and select power/hr/cadence, i selected the relevant options (power, hr, cadence) 

I had issues in the beginning but after removing the devices and adding them again and a firmware update on the kick-r it works. I did however find out that you cannot add the Kick-r and the power meter and HR as 3 separate devices and have that work.. I had to combine the 3 into once device setting.

One more caveat which was tricky to workout;

I also had to have the Kick-r as power meter, and FE-C. If you have power from your quarq and FE-C from the kick-r it wont work. To overcome the power differential, you can use the wahoo app on your phone and select a ANT+ power sensor which is not the kickr.

I also have a Tacx that is setup the same way, (HR, Cadence, Tacx) in 1 device setting.

[comb filter]

Mike Thanks a lot for the reply and suggestions.  I did all the above and see exactly what you are talking about.   I grouped all the ant devices in one FEC deal and even removed the battery from my quarq so it's ID wouldn't mess with it.   

No luck.

It's weird.. Like i can build workouts and see the time marker and see my power/ 3sec power/ HR and EVERYTHING real time in the black workout window with all the graphs.  However GC will not send ERG controlling signal to my wahoo.  I know GC can see my kickr though because i see my power real time on the screen.     What I am doing as a work around is just controlling my wahoo from the android wahoo kickr app.  So lets say I am doing 3x5's in GC.  When the first interval starts and I am supposed to do 250w for 5min, I just set the wahoo kickr app for 250w ERG and it does the resistance then.  It's kind of a pita.  

I guess I should just confirm for sure.   Can GC actually send ERG resistance commands/control to the wahoo kickr?  If yes, is there anyone on here that's actually using it that way?  Is anyone here download .erg workouts or building their own, that has a kickr and GC is putting the right erg resistance to the kickr at the right time?  

Thank,s

Comb

[tigg...@gmail.com]

Ok after a bit too much to eat on Christmas Day, I had another go but GC still would not control my kickr. What am I missing?

I'm using a 1st gen Kickr running Firmware V1.4.47.  Wahoo says that version v1.4.46 got FE-C, so I assume that v1.4.47 has too.

I'm using Golden Cheetah v3.4 (Build 3490 Windows 64 bit).

On Options, Training, Train Devices, I made sure that this was empty before I started.  Then clicked "+" and selected "ANT+ and FE-C". Golden Cheetah found "Power" and "Speed" and gave them IDs of  "30" - which is the last two digits of my Kickr serial number.  My bike, with a power meter, was nowhere near me. Everything else showed "Searching...".  I then gave it a name of "Kickr", the profile showed "30p, 30s" so I assume that is my kickr's "30" serial number and power/speed.  I left "virtual" as "none".  I added power and speed as selected by default (per Mike above).  

I then went back and checked it and "Kickr" is now shown in the "Train Devices" part of Options, with "ANT+ and FE-C", no port and "30p, 30s" and "0" virtual.

After brushing off some cobwebs, I put the bike on the Kickr and I then go in to "Train" and turn the pedals of my bike and it finds power and speed immediately.  These go up and down as I would expect as my pedal.  So far so good.

So I go to "Manual Erg Mode", press play and the clock starts, the "Target Power" is 100 and I pedal.  My power goes up and down as I change intensity but there is no sign of the kickr reacting in any way, shape, or form.  Definitely not being controlled.  

So I close GC, open TrainerRoad and it controls the Kickr fine.  I then close TR and try GC again.  No change, no control of the kickr in manual erg or manual slope mode.

I then had a go with the July 2016 V4.0 development build and there was no difference (i.e. no control of the Kickr).

So back to the v3.4 and delete the kickr, add it back in a few times (sometimes with default, some times without), making sure that bluetooth is turned off on my phone so that nothing is accidentally controlling the kickr.  But nothing in manual erg mode or manual slope mode.  I also downloaded a workout from the DB and still no joy.

So I don't know what to do from here?

Thanks

[Jon Escombe]

Hi,

From your description, I think you're missing the FE-C channel!

In that same pairing dialog, click on one of the unused fields on the
left, and select FE-C. That should then also pair with your Kickr..

For what it's worth, you can also remove the found Speed and Power
channels (just set them to 'Unused'), as that data should also come
through the FE-C channel.

I think perhaps the FE-C device type ought to be a bit more prominent in
that dialog.

Regards,
Jon

[tigg...@gmail.com]

Brilliant!  Thanks Jon.  That solved it completely. The FE-C channel wasn't one of the visible ones but I looked in the drop down box and found it.  Worked first time after that.

Thanks again.

[Jon Escombe]

No worries, I'll raise an issue in the tracker so this doesn't get lost..

Regards,
Jon

[comb filter]

This finally worked for me too.  Thx.. Yeah maybe the drop down should say like "controllable fe-c trainer" ? 

[Dimitri Kiselkov]

Guys ! I read this thread and was super excited because it described exactly my problem last night when trying out GC for the first time. My power and cadence read perfectly but GC wasn't controlling the resistance on my trainer (took me 1h30, before I got mad and gave up).

Now the thing is : I have a cycleops PowerBeam Pro (ANT+   but NOT FE-C). I can use TrainerRoad, Zwift, Virtual Training just fine in ERG and slope mode. Will my trainer work with GC ??   

in the device setup, it sees the powerbeam ID and my cadence ID but not the speed.  I thought the Powerbeam also broadcasts speed ? or is speed calculated in each application separately ?

I tried to check the "virtual" box and choose "Saris Powerbeam" in the drop-down menu (in the 2nd device setup screen), but it didn't help for controling my resistance, I assume it's because speed was not displayed ?

I need help guys.

[Mark Liversedge]

The powerbeam pro uses a private ant+ protocol, we asked for the keys but didn't get anywhere.

Sorry

Mark

[Dimitri Kiselkov]

OK, thanks for the fast answer Mark,

But what is the use with the Virtual "Saris Powerbeam" selection in the drop-down menu during device setting ?

thx,

Dimitri

[Mark Liversedge]

On Thursday, 5 January 2017 21:21:31 UTC, Dimitri Kiselkov wrote:

OK, thanks for the fast answer Mark,

But what is the use with the Virtual "Saris Powerbeam" selection in the drop-down menu during device setting ?

It will estimate power from speed, but cannot vouch for its accuracy

Mark 

[Menko]

Hi all,

I have been struggling to get my Kickr to work in Train View in GC 3.4 on Mac OSX 10.12.  I have an ANT+ dongle, have the latest beta firmware 1.5xxx but I cannot pickup the Kickr in FE+C at all.  I know that it works as I use the same dongle with TrainerRoad and pickup the Kickr. 

I tried installing the FE+C drivers, but I can't find anything in terminal saying that the ANT+ dongle is working.  If I open TrainerRoad, it can find it and confirm I'm connected.  I quit TR and then launch GC, but I still can't find anything on the FE+C channel.  I'd really like to use GC instead of Trainer Road, but I can't figure out what's not working.  I do like how TR has a confirmation that the ANT+ channel is working/not working which would be super helpful in troubleshooting.

I also tried picking it up with Bluetooth from the computer, but that didn't work either.  I'll try tonight picking up my HR monitor too, but I assume the ANT+ channel is not being picked up by GC and could use some help.  Thanks!

Menko

[Mark Liversedge]

On Thursday, 9 February 2017 16:49:54 UTC, Menko wrote:

I also tried picking it up with Bluetooth from the computer, but that didn't work either.  I'll try tonight picking up my HR monitor too, but I assume the ANT+ channel is not being picked up by GC and could use some help.  Thanks!

Have you selected FE-C on any of the ANT channels when pairing?

(the code has been fixed to scan for FE-C by default, but didn't make it into 3.4)

Mark 

[Menko Johnson]

Hi Mark,

Yes, I went to the bottom and selected FE-C, but I don't find the Kickr.  I went to TR and it found the Kickr right away.  I couldn't add the ID manually to help it either. 

Thanks for the quick reply

MJ

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[Julian]

One thing you may try- this worked for me when I had difficulty finding and pairing my kickr is to set all of the channels to "Not Used" or "Unused" (I can't remember the exact term) and then try assigning the channel for the kickr.

Also, which ANT+ dongle do you have and is it plugged into a powered USB port (some keyboard or monitor ports have issue when using bluetooth or ANT+ dongles) 

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 1:23:47 AM UTC-6, comb filter wrote:

[Menko Johnson]

Hi Julian,

Thanks I'll try to do that and see how it works.  I'm using the dongle that came with my trainer (https://sportfactoryproshop.com/cycleops-ant-mini-usb-stick/).  I'm using my macbook pro, so the port is powered but in TR once and while it doesn't pick up requiring me to unplug and replug. I probably have a garmin dongle someplace I can try as well. 

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[TJDunnigan]

Hi Menko,

It seems that TrainerRoad is confirming that your USB/ANT stick is working, but if you want more direct confirmation on your MacBook Pro, click on the Apple icon in the upper left of your screen, then "About this Mac",

then "System Report" and look under the Hardware section. If I remember correctly, it will be listed as a USB device and will indicate if it is working as well as the technical details of it.

[Menko Johnson]

Thatnks TJ, I'll verify that.  I tried the the terminal command tail -f /var/log/system.log to watch for it, but never saw it even when TR said it was connected.



I'll report back tonight after some more experimentation. 



MJ



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[Menko Johnson]

Tried all the hints, verified the USB ANT+ is picked up by OSx, but still it can't find anything

Setup: https://www.dropbox.com/s/m8iorgxw8es542j/Screenshot%202017-02-09%2017.17.26.png?dl=0

ANT: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ved8ri9wn7gg1pk/Screenshot%202017-02-09%2017.17.48.png?dl=0

Thanks again for any other hints.  It also cannot find my HR monitor via ANT

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[Mark Liversedge]

On Friday, 10 February 2017 01:22:49 UTC, Menko wrote:

It also cannot find my HR monitor via ANT

Make sure TR and ANT agent aren't running as they hog the USB device.

Mark 

[Menko Johnson]

Thanks Mark, I'll double check that again, but I'm pretty certain they are not.  More trouble shooting tonight and I'll report back.

MJ

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[Karl]

Hey Mark, thanks for bringing FE-C protocol to my attention... "Fitness Equipment Controller", first time I heard of this. Might have helped me to have this information a couple of months ago ;)

[Karl]

Hey Mark, so I also have the kickr and GC doesn't appear to be controlling the erg on this trainer. In order to add my devices I'm going through the add device wizard, it finds and pairs my kickr (for both speed and power), tickr, and wahoo cadence.

On the next page I have the opportunity (if I understand it properly) to name the device profile which I'm also assuming I don't have anything else to do (my trainer doesn't show in the "Virtual" list and I don't have a wheel or "tire" on the bike so I'm leaving this as the default size). The profile field is already populated with 64584h, 2305p, 2305s, Port is left empty, Stride length I leave as default (115) and really not sure what the "Select by default" option is all about in this context so I also leave this alone.

However, I see nothing to select a "channel' for any of the devices, so if there needs to be a custom selection for FE-C I have no idea where it is. But the devices are identified.

Erg is clearly not being controlled which I would expect it should?

[Jon Escombe]

Hi,

You're almost there..

The Kickr is essentially broadcasting as three different device types,
power meter, speed sensor, and FE-C (which provides the smart control).

When you're in the pairing dialog, change the found Speed and Power
channels to 'Unused' (they are not needed) and change a spare entry to
"Fitness Equipment Control", which will then pick up the FE-C channel
from the Kickr..

Unfortunately, FE-C dropped out of the default pairing options with 3.4
(there are more supported device types than available channels), which
makes it a little unintuitive. Will be back in 3.4.1

Regards,
Jon

[Menko Johnson]

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for all the suggestions on trying to get Train to work in GC.  Well I tried all different methods here and used a different ANT+ key and still was unable to get it to pair.  I assume something is wrong with my usb port that makes the ANT connection flaky, and without some way to check that in GC (like Trainer road reports the ANT+ channel isn't working) I will have to throw in the towel.  Its too bad, I was really hoping to just use GC to do all of this instead of having to use a Bluetooth app to control and my garmin to do the ANT+ related recording. 

MJ

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[Jean Div]

Just a silly question on this.. Is GC brand agnostic when it comes to F-EC? So standardized prototcol, therefor no issue with Tacx Neo, Cycleops Hammer, Wahoo Kickr?

Ta,

Jean

[Mike]

Hi Jean,

Yes FE-C is a standard so as you suspect GC can control any device that supports FE-C communications. 

Mike

[Jean Div]

Great! Thanks Mike.

[Bean]

So glad I found this thread! I just spent the last few hours hooking up a Kickr Snap with no erg feedback. I'd even tried the additional 'spare' channel but it must not have paired correctly the first time so I left it alone.

I now have to work out why I have power spikes. Any ideas? My power is jumping up to ridiculously high values at random. As far as I can tell, no other ANT+ or BT devices nearby, only wifi which I have heard can be an issue? I use the same trainer for Zwift but don't have the same issue. Ideas welcome.

Cheers and thanks everyone. I've been a long time user of GC to keep track of my training but only just got a smart trainer for the first time so I'm learning a whole new part of this amazing piece of software.

Bean

[Karl]

"I now have to work out why I have power spikes. Any ideas? My power is jumping up to ridiculously high values at random. As far as I can tell, no other ANT+ or BT devices nearby, only wifi which I have heard can be an issue? I use the same trainer for Zwift but don't have the same issue. Ideas welcome."

I had the same problem with my kikr. I was able to minimize this by adjusting the smoothing rate on the power widget. If you click on it you should see a more... option. Select this and bump up the smooth adjustment by a few seconds.
Hope this helps.

[Bean]

Thanks Karl. I already have it smoothed to 3 sec (which is what I've always used on the bike). I now note the spikes correlate with coincident, unrealistic spikes in the speed data, so my current guess is some sort of interference. I am going to check again tonight. I ended up switching bikes to get this working as I have Garmin Vectors on the one I had the trainer set up with, and assumed the Vectors may have been trying to communicate (although they weren't showing up on the list of ANT+ signals). I moved the bike with the Vectors away from the system when I finally got the erg feedback working on my 'dumb' bike, but it's possible it was still sending a signal and close enough to interfere.

Will let you know how it goes.

B

[Bean]

I setup GC on another laptop to try some trouble-shooting. Still having the same problem though unfortunately with regular power and speed spikes coming from the Kickr Snap ( at least that's where I think it's coming from). Pic of a short session attached. Given this issue doesn't arise using Zwift (using the same computer), I am wondering if there is a data transmission speed setting or similar in GC that I've not optimised?

[TJDunnigan]

It's not an irrational assumption that it is a GC problem, but I've found that GC tends to report the "ground truth" of what a powermeter or trainer transmits. I find a number of anomolies in my Zwift or Strava rides that are much "cleaner" because of smoothing algorithms that those services apply by default.

A particular example is my friends Kickr rides in which he experiences wild swings in power (in erg mode) independent of cadence or gear and a very peculiar, regular speed oscillation (maybe 1 hz, +/1 .5 mph). The latter is never displayed in Strava, the former sometimes is and sometimes is not. By the way, Wahoo support has been ridiculously bad for him. It seems like they have a policy to delay, obfuscate, and demand firmware changes and reversions until the customer dies or goes away to drink heavily.

[Menko Johnson]

Wahoo had me upgrade my firmware to a beta one, and I started getting wild spikes in erg mode where I would be riding, and suddenly the flywheel would "lock up" for a moment, and I would get a 2000w power spike in my file.  They have since released another beta firmware but I haven't tried it yet.  I also haven't had much love from tech support--when I first got the kickr 2 years ago I would have data drops and they sent me new parts, which didn't fix the problem, and now I just live with it.   I think they've grown massively popular and are trying but aren't able to provide support well anymore.

MJ

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[Michael W]

I had a similar problem with the power spikes after setting up my Kickr - I solved it by removing the power channel from the pairing dialog (set to unused). All I needed was the FE-C, cadence, and heart rate.

[Bean]

Aha! This sounds likely Michael. Many thanks I'll give it a go. I thought I'd read somewhere that I needed both channels communicating.

[Bean]

Thanks Menko,

I'm only having the problem in GC, so I don't think there are other issues. I upgraded the firmware on the Kickr just last week (after some issues with device comms which their support helped me with), so that's not the issue either. I'll try Michael's suggestion and see if that fixes the isse.

Cheers,

B

[Jon Escombe]

If that doesn't fix it, you could send me the antlog.raw file from your
athlete data directory along with the activity file & I'll take a look
at the underlying data. Might be something we're not interpreting
correctly..

Cheers,
Jon

[Bean]

All fixed! Simply switched the ANT+ speed and power signals to unused and just used the FEC signal. No more spikes!

Many thanks to everyone who had suggestions. Turned out to be a simple fix. Now to input a pile of training efforts and get on the trainer!

Cheers,

B

[Bradders]

I´ve just bought the Kickr Core and I'm having the exact problem listed here, no ERG control, GC is recording the power I'm putting out (with the odd huge spike) but if I increase power objective or % gradient, nothing happens. I read this thread and tried to add the FE-C but GC isn't saying there is anything there, it only picks up power (I assume the Kickr), my HR monitor and something called "remote control". I added that but still no control from GC to the Kickr. 

HELP!!!

[Martin Wifling]

Hi guys,

you have made my day!

I was experiencing the same problem and opened a thread here:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/golden-cheetah-users/moJnms63KW0

It works fine now!

I will let the wahoo support know as I opened a problem there.

BR

Martin

[Youn 29]

Bonjour à tous,

J'ai eu le même problème : pas de pilotage de mon Tacks Flux par CG. L'appairage de FE- C a réglé le problème.

Maintenant cela fonctionne

Merci

Yvon

[Marcin Trzewik]

Hello,

1/

I bought a TACX Flux S smart trainer serial number 861964636.

I paired the device with GoldenCheetah v3.4 without ANT+ (anntenaTACX ) any problems. Resistance in ERG mode was immediate.

I installed it successfully on 2 different computers. Perfect.

Pareid FE+C

 

Unfortunately, I advertised this copy with a mechanical defect and a stench of plastic.

 

"Config Device in GC

devicename1=Tacx

devicetype1=128

devicewheel1=2168

devicestride1=115

devicespec1=

deviceprof1="21980h, 64636f"

devicedef1=P

devicepostProcess1=0"

 

 

 

2/

As part of the complaint I received a second copy of serial number 861904263.

I have paired the new device analogously with GoldenCheetah v3.4 on the same computers without ANT+ (anntenaTACX ).

Unfortunately, apart from receiving information about power, cadence and speed, the device does not work in ERG mode.

There is no resistance control.

I did a test on another 3rd computer - it doesn't work.

Pareid FE+C

 

Config Device in GC (is this same except serial no)

 

"devicename1=Tacx-Flux

devicetype1=128

devicewheel1=2168

devicestride1=115

devicespec1=

deviceprof1="21980h, 4263f"

devicedef1=P

devicepostProcess1=0"

 

Firmware comunication3.3.40

Firmware host processor 1.1.2

Bluetooth turned off in the phone and other devices. 

marty

[THibaut Ledanois]

Hi,

I'm using version 3.5 of GC, with a Wahoo Kickr with 3.4.7 frimeware. In addition, the connection is made in ANT +. I would like to carry out a training by taking the hand on the controllable (erg). How should I do it ?

[Ale Martinez (Please don't email or cc me)]

El jueves, 16 de abril de 2020, 5:30:31 (UTC-3), THibaut Ledanois escribió:

Hi,

I'm using version 3.5 of GC, with a Wahoo Kickr with 3.4.7 frimeware. In addition, the connection is made in ANT +. I would like to carry out a training by taking the hand on the controllable (erg). How should I do it ?

There are a couple of tutorials, Working with Train View and Workout Editor, to start with on the main site: https://www.goldencheetah.org/#section-tutorials

[THibaut Ledanois]

 
yes of course before asking my question I inquired with this tutorial. But on the Windows version I don't have the ROBOT function

[Ale Martinez (Please don't email or cc me)]

El sábado, 18 de abril de 2020, 14:21:27 (UTC-3), THibaut Ledanois escribió:

 
yes of course before asking my question I inquired with this tutorial.

Which is you question? It was not clear for me.

But on the Windows version I don't have the ROBOT function

Robot is for testing, it is not necessary to Train and it is not included in all builds.