CP Plot Model Compare

[Mark Liversedge]

Added the ability to plot the model when comparing date ranges and the option to turn off the bests curve.

So as a result you can compare power duration curves across seasons and its kinda neat.

I think we've pretty much covered every combination of options in the CP chart* !

Mark

* well actually I'd like to be able to compare different models for the same date range.

[Pete from AUS]

Nice work! Will this allow w/kg comparison between athletes?

[Mark Liversedge]

Yes. Because of the way the charts work we get all that kind of compare 'goodness' for free.

So here are two date ranges compared (they are different lengths to show  that works too) for CP curve and CP history across two athletes (ok, me plus an athlete).

I need to think about the right way to calculate and show the differences between the two curves that is meaningful / useful and also update the model widget to show parameters from multiple models and the differences (I just hide it for now).

Mark

[Mark Liversedge]

On Wednesday, 21 May 2014 18:56:22 UTC+1, Mark Liversedge wrote:

I think we've pretty much covered every combination of options in the CP chart* !

I lied.

Cheers,

Mark

[Mark Liversedge]

Updated to now allow a baseline comparison (delta compare) of the model across seasons.

Its pretty useful actually -- you can see a good summary of how your PD curve has changed over seasons and get the absolute values for this.

Regards,

Mark

[Pete from AUS]

Just thinking about the relationship between CP and W'....would it be worthwhile to be able to plot "work above CP" or something like that against the CP history? IE something that shows whether your W' follows your CP or is inverse or whatever.
Maybe W' % expended?
I just ask in case it might help with understanding it better.

[Mark Liversedge]

I wonder if the existing W' work, which is the total energy when watts was above CP should be adjusted to only include the joules above CP ..

i.e. currently if your CP is 200w

- 1sec at 400w is 400j W' work

- 1sec at 400w could change to be 200j W'work (400w - 200w * 1s)

What are people's views on this ?

Mark

[Slash103]

I think both are very interesting.

K

[Mark Liversedge]

Yeah. I'll add a Above CP Work metric for it.

[Pete from AUS]

if your CP was 200w and your W' was 21000

Doing 210w, if you counted that as 210j W' work, you would reach zero after 100 seconds?

[Mark Liversedge]

Are you suggesting that the existing metric "W' work" should only include energy above CP ?

I'm relaxed either way tbh .. 

Mark

[Chris C.]

How do you plot this graph?

I did my dates ranges (jan-fev, mar-apr, may-jun) burt not sure what to apply for the chart config :)

Thanks
Christian

[Mark Liversedge]

Here's a screengrab:

BTW, I have updated the source to compute W' work solely on watts above CP .. makes more sense that way.

[Chris C.]

Ah got it, I just had to press the ON/OFF button on the interval listbox :)

CC

[Armando Mastracci]

I had posted this on the Cycling Physiology forum and thought I offer it up for comments and possible inclusion in the software.  In light of the ability to compare CP and W' over a period, the Training Vector visualization would be an interesting way to present that information.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Armando Mastracci <mast...@gmail.com>

Subject: Characterising athletes and training with CP, W' and estimated VO2max

Date: 28 February, 2014 10:41:13 AM EST

To: "cycling-p...@googlegroups.com" <cycling-p...@googlegroups.com>

CP, W' and estimated VO2max provide an interesting perspective on how to characterise both athletes and training.  To explain, let's start by plotting a given athlete's CP and W' (slide 2 in the pdf presentation):

[Mark Liversedge]

Oh that is very kind Armando -- I love this concept.

We are closing the features for 3.1 .. but maybe we can make an exception...

.. I'll see how much work to do this.

Mark

[Pete from AUS]

Just on the athlete types, could you depict the range from say TTer to Sprinter as being at different points on the same MMP6 line?

Could all this be an alternate concept to the fatigue profile model?

Perhaps a CP & W' history plot lends itself to another style of PMC?

Q: are you suggesting W' can be estimated from CP & MMP6?

Pete

[Mark Liversedge]

I've pushed it into the 3.2 queue. I'd like to tie the vectors with stress and include it in the planning pieces for 3.2. 

<rant>

I see Coggan has just put a similar matrix on his vaguebook. Then implied others (you) are copying him. Of all the ways to describe him you can at least say he is consistent. Will look forward to a training vector chart in WKO 4.

</rant>

Regards,

Mark

On Tuesday, 27 May 2014 21:29:10 UTC+1, Armando wrote:

[Armando Mastracci]

Really can't see this as plagiarism as I have not seen charts like this before.  If they do exist, I wasn't aware.

I did, however, build on the phenotype concept but I don't feel this is the main point of the exercise but just an interesting perspective on the information.  We can certainly eliminate the phenotype bands if there is too much sensitivity with that.  In fact, "Sprinter" connotation also implies a high maximum power output and the charts don't include that as they only reflect CP and W'.  Perhaps that dimension can be reflected as "slow-twitch" and "fast-twitch" being the top left and bottom right, resp?

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[Mark Liversedge]

Good.

The phenotype stuff is fluff we can remove.

Thanks,

Mark

[Pete from AUS]

I added a new 'critical mean maximals' chart with using NP as the Data Series.
When I first created it, I lost a lot of functionality - it basically became a single ride plot, although I could build up other rides via the 'view comparison window'.
However on close/restart it seems to have sorted itself out - ie presents as per the CP chart (with a 'bests' line)
Maybe check it out and see what you think?

[Mark Liversedge]

Have now adjusted the delta to also show as a percentage of the baseline.

This means you can compare how each seasons p-d curve stacks up against a baseline but looking at in in percentage across the durations from short to long.

It hopefully shows a more accurate representation of the gains (or losses in my case) over time.

Here is an example;

Mark

[Mark Liversedge]

Thanks for the bug report, it is now fixed in the code. I have a few nits to work through !

https://github.com/GoldenCheetah/GoldenCheetah/issues/853

Cheers,

Mark