Custom Training Plan Generator and Predicted PMC: Proactive Training.
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Julian
Oct 22, 2010, 10:40:39 AM10/22/10
to golden-cheetah-users
All,
I've mentioned this once before and there seemed to be some interest
but as it was the springtime most of us were too engrosed in actually
riding our bikes to take up a new feature in GC... In any event as
the season has wrapped up for most of us and the long hours of the
winter approach I thought I'd raise the idea again and see if anyone
is game...
For a few years I've been using an Excel workbook that allows me to
build a training program (I will share it with those who are
interested). Simple enough really but I've found it tremendously
helpful (along with my teammates, many of whom stopped paying for
coaching after seeing this) in planning backwards from races and
peaks. The basic idea is that for each workout I enter the specifics
in time and IF (breaking workouts down into intervals etc...) and the
spreadsheet computes the relevant metrics. These metrics are then
used on a performance manager style chart, a ramp rate chart, and a
rolling TSS values chart. Essentially what the workbook allows me to
do is to plot out all of my workouts while seeing what the results
will be all the while keeping track of my ramp rate and accumulating
TSS so I don't blow up! So I can plot out a month of training, say
threshold, and look at the Performance Manager Chart and see where
that month of training will leave me with respect to ATL, CTL and
TSB...
Of course it's not perfect and does take some massaging but it allows
me to see what will happen if I would complete all the workouts to a
T. Further, when I plot my actual PMC against the Predicted PMC it
shows me if I'm straying from my plan. As is often the case I skip a
few workouts or add a few but never knew what the effect on my
trajectory was... now I know, and better yet, I can then take
corrective action so to not miss my mark.
When I first raised the idea I found Keisuke's patch that allows one
to create stepped workouts and transfer them to the Edge 500 and 705.
Essentially Keisuke has built the first part of my idea- a feature
that allows a user to create a bank of stepped workouts. Keisuke's
patch didn't contain the ability to calculate metrics from the workout
but I assume (perhaps naively?) that's fairly easy to add for some of
you coding ninjas. From there I can't see how the next step would be
very hard as it seems it would be as simple as creating a mirror of
the calendar to store all the projected training data and then using
those values on the metrics tab...? Further it would be great to be
able to transfer those workouts from the calendar to a device...
My belief is that this is the next logical step in training software-
software that aides one in not just taking an analytic role in their
training but a proactive role in creating the training. Again I'm not
going to be much use in coding but I can help out in other ways and
I'm not adverse to making some financial contribution to seeing this
get off the ground.
If anyone is interested by all means contact me as I truly believe
this will be hugely beneficial to coaches, users and those people who
are just learning how to balance all the factors that go into creating
a training plan... GC is without a doubt the most advanced and
promising power analysis software around and I feel this feature would
simply blow people away.
-Julian
I've mentioned this once before and there seemed to be some interest
but as it was the springtime most of us were too engrosed in actually
riding our bikes to take up a new feature in GC... In any event as
the season has wrapped up for most of us and the long hours of the
winter approach I thought I'd raise the idea again and see if anyone
is game...
For a few years I've been using an Excel workbook that allows me to
build a training program (I will share it with those who are
interested). Simple enough really but I've found it tremendously
helpful (along with my teammates, many of whom stopped paying for
coaching after seeing this) in planning backwards from races and
peaks. The basic idea is that for each workout I enter the specifics
in time and IF (breaking workouts down into intervals etc...) and the
spreadsheet computes the relevant metrics. These metrics are then
used on a performance manager style chart, a ramp rate chart, and a
rolling TSS values chart. Essentially what the workbook allows me to
do is to plot out all of my workouts while seeing what the results
will be all the while keeping track of my ramp rate and accumulating
TSS so I don't blow up! So I can plot out a month of training, say
threshold, and look at the Performance Manager Chart and see where
that month of training will leave me with respect to ATL, CTL and
TSB...
Of course it's not perfect and does take some massaging but it allows
me to see what will happen if I would complete all the workouts to a
T. Further, when I plot my actual PMC against the Predicted PMC it
shows me if I'm straying from my plan. As is often the case I skip a
few workouts or add a few but never knew what the effect on my
trajectory was... now I know, and better yet, I can then take
corrective action so to not miss my mark.
When I first raised the idea I found Keisuke's patch that allows one
to create stepped workouts and transfer them to the Edge 500 and 705.
Essentially Keisuke has built the first part of my idea- a feature
that allows a user to create a bank of stepped workouts. Keisuke's
patch didn't contain the ability to calculate metrics from the workout
but I assume (perhaps naively?) that's fairly easy to add for some of
you coding ninjas. From there I can't see how the next step would be
very hard as it seems it would be as simple as creating a mirror of
the calendar to store all the projected training data and then using
those values on the metrics tab...? Further it would be great to be
able to transfer those workouts from the calendar to a device...
My belief is that this is the next logical step in training software-
software that aides one in not just taking an analytic role in their
training but a proactive role in creating the training. Again I'm not
going to be much use in coding but I can help out in other ways and
I'm not adverse to making some financial contribution to seeing this
get off the ground.
If anyone is interested by all means contact me as I truly believe
this will be hugely beneficial to coaches, users and those people who
are just learning how to balance all the factors that go into creating
a training plan... GC is without a doubt the most advanced and
promising power analysis software around and I feel this feature would
simply blow people away.
-Julian
Marcus Ward
Oct 22, 2010, 10:50:26 AM10/22/10
to Julian, golden-che...@googlegroups.com
I'm interested but have nothing of value to add except "holy crap yes I'd like this more than ice cream". Or something like that.
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Alex Simmons
Oct 22, 2010, 3:29:57 PM10/22/10
to golden-cheetah-users
I have already built such a system for coaches to build custom
training plans, design custom training descriptions, produce a sale
able product, amongst all sorts of things - and would hope that it
could become software widely available at some stage. I have been
using it for nearly 2 years and it works great. A very efficient
means to generate good quality plans.
But offering it for nothing would damage a reasonably significant
income stream for me, since coaching is my only income.
Of course I'm sure the clever people here could make something similar
and my tool would probably go the way of the dinosaur, but in reality
probably not because it's the coach making decisions on what goes into
the plan based on client assessment that is a critical element, and
that requires experience. Sure you could build a business rules based
auto plan generator but I think the coach's touch can't be overlooked.
The plans work (based on the client reported results), the clients
love them and keep coming back for more, and I can't manage the demand
(and do no marketing either).
This is the dilemma of a self employed full time professional coach -
while I do it for passion and my client's performance, it's also a
business and pays my mortgage.
My plans are described here:
http://www.cyclecoach.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&Itemid=100
we also provide for a user forum to interact with coaches when they
have questions etc. this is not, of course what I do with my higher
level coaching clients who get a greater level of attention and focus.
What would the GC group suggest?
training plans, design custom training descriptions, produce a sale
able product, amongst all sorts of things - and would hope that it
could become software widely available at some stage. I have been
using it for nearly 2 years and it works great. A very efficient
means to generate good quality plans.
But offering it for nothing would damage a reasonably significant
income stream for me, since coaching is my only income.
Of course I'm sure the clever people here could make something similar
and my tool would probably go the way of the dinosaur, but in reality
probably not because it's the coach making decisions on what goes into
the plan based on client assessment that is a critical element, and
that requires experience. Sure you could build a business rules based
auto plan generator but I think the coach's touch can't be overlooked.
The plans work (based on the client reported results), the clients
love them and keep coming back for more, and I can't manage the demand
(and do no marketing either).
This is the dilemma of a self employed full time professional coach -
while I do it for passion and my client's performance, it's also a
business and pays my mortgage.
My plans are described here:
http://www.cyclecoach.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&Itemid=100
we also provide for a user forum to interact with coaches when they
have questions etc. this is not, of course what I do with my higher
level coaching clients who get a greater level of attention and focus.
What would the GC group suggest?
Mark Liversedge
Oct 22, 2010, 4:28:34 PM10/22/10
to golden-cheetah-users
I think it would be neat to be able to plan with GC and manage a
workout library which could link to .erg files for the racing and
training view. And maybe drag down workout schedules via webcal etc. I
also reckon the 'virtual coach' is a long way down the line of
developments needed anyway!
I think broadly there are the following features and timeline;
1. Support a planned workout 'file format' - maybe the old .man or
some other mechanism like ics (?) or sqlite DB
2. Expand / enrich the calendar view into a training diary to show
(configurable) summaries of past and future workouts
3. Allow downloaded/imported ridefiles to be associated with or update
a planned workout
4. Provide tools to define, import* and export* planned workouts (* =
webcal, exchange?)
5. Provide tools to manage a 'predefined' workout library and allow
you to select from them (maybe even define them in terms of the
physiological effect they target e.g. improve neuromuscular) and have
associated info e.g. .MRC/.ERG file
6. Provide mechanisms for defining targets - e.g. A/B/C race/event and
associated physiological targets e.g. FTP/CP, weight
7. Allow plotting of targets onto metrics or PMC charts
8. Provide mechanisms for combining targets and planned workouts into
'plans' with date ranges and other characteristics
9. Support plans that contain plans e.g. 2011 season plan contains -
base, build 1, peak 1 and taper 1 plans followed by build 2 etc etc
10. Provide wizard / function to automagically create plan(s) based
upon targets and dates
Make sense?
Mark
workout library which could link to .erg files for the racing and
training view. And maybe drag down workout schedules via webcal etc. I
also reckon the 'virtual coach' is a long way down the line of
developments needed anyway!
I think broadly there are the following features and timeline;
1. Support a planned workout 'file format' - maybe the old .man or
some other mechanism like ics (?) or sqlite DB
2. Expand / enrich the calendar view into a training diary to show
(configurable) summaries of past and future workouts
3. Allow downloaded/imported ridefiles to be associated with or update
a planned workout
4. Provide tools to define, import* and export* planned workouts (* =
webcal, exchange?)
5. Provide tools to manage a 'predefined' workout library and allow
you to select from them (maybe even define them in terms of the
physiological effect they target e.g. improve neuromuscular) and have
associated info e.g. .MRC/.ERG file
6. Provide mechanisms for defining targets - e.g. A/B/C race/event and
associated physiological targets e.g. FTP/CP, weight
7. Allow plotting of targets onto metrics or PMC charts
8. Provide mechanisms for combining targets and planned workouts into
'plans' with date ranges and other characteristics
9. Support plans that contain plans e.g. 2011 season plan contains -
base, build 1, peak 1 and taper 1 plans followed by build 2 etc etc
10. Provide wizard / function to automagically create plan(s) based
upon targets and dates
Make sense?
Mark
Mark Ewers
Oct 22, 2010, 4:48:39 PM10/22/10
to Mark Liversedge, golden-cheetah-users
Along the lines of #5 below, how about a rt-click | save as workout template option on any file?
We probably all do a lot of structured interval workouts and have certain routes we ride periodically. These would make excellent planning candidates. Additionally, they should already be keyword tagged for their physiological/training value (We're all tagging workouts, right?) These tags, along with duration, kJ, or training score... could all be used for sorting and filtering by the planning tool.
Mark
We probably all do a lot of structured interval workouts and have certain routes we ride periodically. These would make excellent planning candidates. Additionally, they should already be keyword tagged for their physiological/training value (We're all tagging workouts, right?) These tags, along with duration, kJ, or training score... could all be used for sorting and filtering by the planning tool.
Mark
tetonrider
Oct 22, 2010, 4:49:18 PM10/22/10
to golden-cheetah-users
I would LOVE to see your spreadsheet, Julian!
Thank you!
-eric
Thank you!
-eric
Justin Knotzke
Oct 22, 2010, 5:19:11 PM10/22/10
to Alex Simmons, golden-cheetah-users
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 15:29, Alex Simmons <alex.s...@bigpond.com> wrote:
But offering it for nothing would damage a reasonably significant
income stream for me, since coaching is my only income.
Look at it the other way, if GC created a tool to make your life easier, even if it meant that your competitors had it as well, would this not be good for business ?
Trying to keep something secret and away from everyone else, means you spend time protecting it or worrying that someone else will improve on it.
It's only a question of time before someone comes up with the same idea or better. So you have to always innovate on it and protect it.
Or, instead, see GC as a tool that will help you increase business. If you contribute your ideas and those ideas appeal to someone here enough, they will code it for you, for free.
The real differentiator between you and your competitors should be your coaching, your plans and how you interact with your clients. In my experience, it's usually the latter that is the most important.
J
Matt Perry
Oct 22, 2010, 5:22:17 PM10/22/10
to Alex Simmons, golden-cheetah-users
Alex,
The rule I use in my own software development practice is: If my
competitors had access to the my software, could they steal my
clients? The answer is almost always no. The reason is that, in my
software niche at least, I am the expert and can provide the best
services around those products. So by making the product free, I am
essentially marketing my services (the real money).
You say (and rightly so) that while an auto-generated training plan
may work, it is no substitute for a 'coaches touch'. So why would
having such a tool freely available damage your income stream? If you
are the premier expert in this methodology, by making the software
available, are you not creating a bigger market for yourself?
Hundreds/thousands of new riders will use it but have questions
requiring a coaches expertise and they will seek out a coach who knows
how to use the tool. Better yet, they'll seek out the coach who
*built* the tool.
Another way to look at it: you can monetizing services built around
some hypothetical Golden Cheetah training plan generator just as
coaches can monetize services built around TrainingPeaks.com or any
other software for that matter. It doesn't mean that TrainingPeaks has
damaged coaches income - quite the opposite - it's become a tool that
has facilitated greater coach-client interaction and provided even
greater income for coaches in the long run.
As you alude to, it will eventually get built. I see your dilemma: At
first glance it seems like putting the tool out there will cost you
clients and open the door for competitors. But you need only to look
at the world of open source software development to see how monetizing
services around free products by becoming "the expert" can result in
much greater return on investment in the long term.
- matt
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"The best way to predict the future is to invent it." -- Alan Kay
Matthew T. Perry
http://www.perrygeo.net
http://viedevelo.wordpress.com
Alex Simmons
Oct 22, 2010, 5:49:58 PM10/22/10
to golden-cheetah-users
I get what you guys are saying - but here's the rub:
I already have an excellent and efficient tool (but could be better
for sure). I can't make any more money by generating custom plans no
matter what software I use since the constraint is not the software,
it's my available capacity (time) to produce plans.
So how do I leverage such a solution (i.e. by giving away a system to
freely deployed software) to make any more money than I do now* if I
don't get paid for people to use it? Open to ideas.
I think you should know by now that I'm not one to not share stuff,
given my modest contributions over the years to the world of training
with power. Maybe not to GC specifically since I'm not a programmer,
but in other ways.
* coaching provides a modest income but doesn't really pay for
simple things like hideously expensive prosthetics. I can always toss
coaching and go back to the corporate world (ugh) but what good does
that do, losing a coach from the system? I don't want to do that.
> >http://www.cyclecoach.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&i...
I already have an excellent and efficient tool (but could be better
for sure). I can't make any more money by generating custom plans no
matter what software I use since the constraint is not the software,
it's my available capacity (time) to produce plans.
So how do I leverage such a solution (i.e. by giving away a system to
freely deployed software) to make any more money than I do now* if I
don't get paid for people to use it? Open to ideas.
I think you should know by now that I'm not one to not share stuff,
given my modest contributions over the years to the world of training
with power. Maybe not to GC specifically since I'm not a programmer,
but in other ways.
* coaching provides a modest income but doesn't really pay for
simple things like hideously expensive prosthetics. I can always toss
coaching and go back to the corporate world (ugh) but what good does
that do, losing a coach from the system? I don't want to do that.
Jamie Kimberley
Oct 22, 2010, 6:03:00 PM10/22/10
to Alex Simmons, golden-cheetah-users
Alex,
I understand your points, and the fact that you brought the subject
up shows that you are not tying to hold somethings back. I
understand the need to ask "what do I get out of this".
My view is that you might be able to offer a more integrated
solution to your clients by incorporating your process/ideas into
GC. That might be a selling point, and might eventually streamline
communication with your clients/make your life easier. As Justin
noted if you get someone on the code end interested you get a new
tool for a little info on your end. Plus you get to help shape the
way things may work.
Jamie
>> ???`?.?. , . .???`?.. ><((((?>`?.??.???`?.?.???`?...?><((((?>
>> "The best way to predict the future is to invent it." -- Alan Kay
>> Matthew T. Perryhttp://www.perrygeo.nethttp://viedevelo.wordpress.com
>
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__________________
Jamie Kimberley
Postdoctoral Fellow
Department of Mechanical Engineering
The Johns Hopkins University
Office: 410.516.5162
Mobile: 217.621.8272
Fax: 410.516.4316
E-Mail:jamie.k...@jhu.edu
Alex Simmons
Oct 22, 2010, 6:07:10 PM10/22/10
to golden-cheetah-users
On Oct 22, 2:22 pm, Matt Perry <perry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It doesn't mean that TrainingPeaks has
> damaged coaches income - quite the opposite - it's become a tool that
> has facilitated greater coach-client interaction
Well IMO TP is a pretty crummy solution and from a coach's POV, this
> damaged coaches income - quite the opposite - it's become a tool that
> has facilitated greater coach-client interaction
is the greatest gap in the software market.
What I need from here on is less navel gazing and inspecting the belly
button fluff of power meter files and more effective integrated tools
to manage communications with multiple athletes. Sure all the
specific stuff is fun and interesting and occasionally really
helpful. Heck just look at the pacing analysis stuff I built a couple
of years ago.
But I suspect that GC has largely been driven by individuals who want
specific individual analysis rather than looking at it from a broader
coaching management perspective. Forest and trees. With most power
meter software, all I get to see as a coach is the trees and branches
and increasingly the leaves.
I don't actually use GC, the time required to invest in ensuring
reliability for a full book of athletes I am not sure I can afford.
Heck I couldn't even work out how to download it and make it work
properly. This stuff has to be plug and play. Most of my clients are
less PC savvy than me.
Jamie Kimberley
Oct 22, 2010, 6:12:52 PM10/22/10
to Alex Simmons, golden-cheetah-users
On Fri, 22 Oct 2010, Alex Simmons wrote:
> On Oct 22, 2:22 pm, Matt Perry <perry...@gmail.com> wrote:
****snip****
>
> I don't actually use GC, the time required to invest in ensuring
> reliability for a full book of athletes I am not sure I can afford.
> Heck I couldn't even work out how to download it and make it work
> properly. This stuff has to be plug and play. Most of my clients are
> less PC savvy than me.
Please don't that this as snarky, but what are the problems with
downloading and using GC? we've been doing our best to provide
builds that are pretty much download and run.
There are some issues with drivers for download, but we've been
working on streamlining that a bit.
I ask this because I feel, like you, that GC need to be easy to use.
Jamie
Andy Froncioni
Oct 22, 2010, 6:19:29 PM10/22/10
to golden-cheetah-users
Hi All,
> On Oct 22, 2:22 pm, Matt Perry<perry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It doesn't mean that TrainingPeaks has
>> damaged coaches income - quite the opposite - it's become a tool that
>> has facilitated greater coach-client interaction
>>
> Well IMO TP is a pretty crummy solution and from a coach's POV, this
> is the greatest gap in the software market.
>
> On Oct 22, 2:22 pm, Matt Perry<perry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It doesn't mean that TrainingPeaks has
>> damaged coaches income - quite the opposite - it's become a tool that
>> has facilitated greater coach-client interaction
>>
> Well IMO TP is a pretty crummy solution and from a coach's POV, this
> is the greatest gap in the software market.
>
Gotta agree with Alex on this one. Watching a friend try to manage 40+
athletes' power files each day is pure pain.
> What I need from here on is less navel gazing and inspecting the belly
> button fluff of power meter files and more effective integrated tools
> to manage communications with multiple athletes. Sure all the
> specific stuff is fun and interesting and occasionally really
> helpful. Heck just look at the pacing analysis stuff I built a couple
> of years ago.
>
> But I suspect that GC has largely been driven by individuals who want
> specific individual analysis rather than looking at it from a broader
> coaching management perspective. Forest and trees. With most power
> meter software, all I get to see as a coach is the trees and branches
> and increasingly the leaves.
>
It seems all training software is built for coaches with only a couple
of athletes. The workflow is definitely atrocious.
Justin once had an idea for a ride file share (like a training hub) that
seemed workable. I don't remember the details of it, but it had the
start of a very good workflow in it. Justin?
Cheers,
Andy
Justin Knotzke
Oct 22, 2010, 6:23:57 PM10/22/10
to Andy Froncioni, golden-cheetah-users
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 18:19, Andy Froncioni <a.fro...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Justin once had an idea for a ride file share (like a training hub) that seemed workable. I don't remember the details of it, but it had the start of a very good workflow in it. Justin?
I did ? I don't remember that !
Besides, shouldn't you be on your way over to setup my bike up for tomorrow's Aerostick testing ? ;-)
J
Matt Perry
Oct 22, 2010, 6:25:59 PM10/22/10
to Andy Froncioni, golden-cheetah-users
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Andy Froncioni
<a.fro...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Hi All,
>>
>> On Oct 22, 2:22 pm, Matt Perry<perry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It doesn't mean that TrainingPeaks has
>>> damaged coaches income - quite the opposite - it's become a tool that
>>> has facilitated greater coach-client interaction
>>>
>>
>> Well IMO TP is a pretty crummy solution and from a coach's POV, this
>> is the greatest gap in the software market.
>>
>
> Gotta agree with Alex on this one. Watching a friend try to manage 40+
> athletes' power files each day is pure pain.
>
<a.fro...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Hi All,
>>
>> On Oct 22, 2:22 pm, Matt Perry<perry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It doesn't mean that TrainingPeaks has
>>> damaged coaches income - quite the opposite - it's become a tool that
>>> has facilitated greater coach-client interaction
>>>
>>
>> Well IMO TP is a pretty crummy solution and from a coach's POV, this
>> is the greatest gap in the software market.
>>
>
> Gotta agree with Alex on this one. Watching a friend try to manage 40+
> athletes' power files each day is pure pain.
>
Yeah maybe TP was a bad example - I've never actually used it myself
so I can't comment. My point is not that TP is a great technical
solution - only that it has expanded the market for coaches. But
without that tool as a platform for their services, there would
undoubtably be fewer coaches in business.
Jim Thompson
Oct 22, 2010, 6:26:32 PM10/22/10
to Mark Ewers, Mark Liversedge, golden-cheetah-users
And if there was an interchange format... so people could share, via emailing the files around (so maybe XML-ish) or posit them to a webserver(?)...
-- Jim
-- Jim
Jim Thompson
Oct 22, 2010, 6:30:30 PM10/22/10
to Justin Knotzke, Alex Simmons, golden-cheetah-users
On Oct 22, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Justin Knotzke <jkno...@shampoo.ca> wrote:
> Trying to keep something secret and away from everyone else, means you spend time protecting it or worrying that someone else will improve on it.
Just to push on this point a bit more, one of the nice things about the GPL is that if other people do improve it, they have to share, too. (yes, I understand that if they don't distribute, they don't need to share. I grok the gpl.)
Think of it this way. There are smart people everywhere. Most of them don't work for you (even if you're IBM or Microsoft). "open source" is one way to take advantage of that fact.
Jim
Julian
Oct 22, 2010, 6:40:02 PM10/22/10
to golden-cheetah-users
All,
FWIW, it took me 3 years of paying for coaching and devouring all the
books and online resources until I felt comfortable enough on my own.
While I went this way I know of more people who have a surplus of
money over time and desire to coach themselves. For those people this
feature is irrelevant.
For those of us who do want a very hand-on approach to our training,
those of us who no longer pay for coaching this tool will be
invaluable.
--
Mark pretty much cracked open my small head and scooped the good stuff
out... I totally agree with everything. #10 may be a longer term
project though...
I've uploaded my workbook to dropbox... I'm still building my personal
plan so the workbook is full of my own junk (and HIGHLY incomplete)
but it will provide a reference for how it works... I don't recommend
anyone follow my plan as it has me peaking in early June as that's
when my season will end as I'll be on a month-long honeymoon come
July...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6564666/Training4.xls
I wouldn't be surprised to find that there are errors in the
spreadsheet, it's big and complicated etc... That's my disclaimer...
So yeah, that's about it. I have plenty of ideas on how to implement
this feature and how to make it simple (I'm a web dev/artist so I do a
lot of UI stuff) but as for the coding I'm not much help. That
said... I really want to see this happen so I'm open to helping in
other ways...
-J
FWIW, it took me 3 years of paying for coaching and devouring all the
books and online resources until I felt comfortable enough on my own.
While I went this way I know of more people who have a surplus of
money over time and desire to coach themselves. For those people this
feature is irrelevant.
For those of us who do want a very hand-on approach to our training,
those of us who no longer pay for coaching this tool will be
invaluable.
--
Mark pretty much cracked open my small head and scooped the good stuff
out... I totally agree with everything. #10 may be a longer term
project though...
I've uploaded my workbook to dropbox... I'm still building my personal
plan so the workbook is full of my own junk (and HIGHLY incomplete)
but it will provide a reference for how it works... I don't recommend
anyone follow my plan as it has me peaking in early June as that's
when my season will end as I'll be on a month-long honeymoon come
July...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6564666/Training4.xls
I wouldn't be surprised to find that there are errors in the
spreadsheet, it's big and complicated etc... That's my disclaimer...
So yeah, that's about it. I have plenty of ideas on how to implement
this feature and how to make it simple (I'm a web dev/artist so I do a
lot of UI stuff) but as for the coding I'm not much help. That
said... I really want to see this happen so I'm open to helping in
other ways...
-J
Alex Simmons
Oct 22, 2010, 6:49:45 PM10/22/10
to golden-cheetah-users
On Oct 22, 3:12 pm, Jamie Kimberley <jamie.kimber...@jhu.edu> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Oct 2010, Alex Simmons wrote:
> > On Oct 22, 2:22 pm, Matt Perry <perry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ****snip****
>
> > I don't actually use GC, the time required to invest in ensuring
> > reliability for a full book of athletes I am not sure I can afford.
> > Heck I couldn't even work out how to download it and make it work
> > properly. This stuff has to be plug and play. Most of my clients are
> > less PC savvy than me.
>
> Please don't that this as snarky, but what are the problems with
> downloading and using GC? we've been doing our best to provide
> builds that are pretty much download and run.
>
> There are some issues with drivers for download, but we've been
> working on streamlining that a bit.
>
> I ask this because I feel, like you, that GC need to be easy to use.
Thanks. I just typed up and lost my response outlining my experience -
> On Fri, 22 Oct 2010, Alex Simmons wrote:
> > On Oct 22, 2:22 pm, Matt Perry <perry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ****snip****
>
> > I don't actually use GC, the time required to invest in ensuring
> > reliability for a full book of athletes I am not sure I can afford.
> > Heck I couldn't even work out how to download it and make it work
> > properly. This stuff has to be plug and play. Most of my clients are
> > less PC savvy than me.
>
> Please don't that this as snarky, but what are the problems with
> downloading and using GC? we've been doing our best to provide
> builds that are pretty much download and run.
>
> There are some issues with drivers for download, but we've been
> working on streamlining that a bit.
>
> I ask this because I feel, like you, that GC need to be easy to use.
something went wrong on the forum interface - probably I accidentally
hit wrong button.
I'll come back to this question as I'm rushing off now but main things
were I couldn't find created athletes, I couldn't find files after
opening, I can't import data from WKO+ (which *all* my clients use),
there were no rides notes, and Aerolab disappeared after loading it.
I just went "ugh" and thought maybe it will show some simplicity and
reliability eventually for a dumb ass user like me who has multiple
athletes to manage and limited time to learn software.
Justin Knotzke
Oct 22, 2010, 7:01:25 PM10/22/10
to Alex Simmons, golden-cheetah-users
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 18:49, Alex Simmons <alex.s...@bigpond.com> wrote:
Thanks. I just typed up and lost my response outlining my experience -
something went wrong on the forum interface - probably I accidentally
hit wrong button.
The forum interface is Google's which is the same as the wattage interface..
I'll come back to this question as I'm rushing off now but main things
were I couldn't find created athletes, I couldn't find files after
opening, I can't import data from WKO+ (which *all* my clients use),
there were no rides notes, and Aerolab disappeared after loading it.
1) To find your files on Windows: Help-> About
2) Find your created athletes, Cyclist->Open
3) We support most if not all WKO files. Do you happen to have a WKO file you can share with us that doesn't work ?
J
Justin Knotzke
Oct 22, 2010, 7:05:56 PM10/22/10
to Alex Simmons, golden-cheetah-users
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 19:01, Justin Knotzke <jkno...@shampoo.ca> wrote:
there were no rides notes, and Aerolab disappeared after loading it.
Oh missed this one.
View->Aerolab (ensure it's checked).
J
Fernando Maldonado
Oct 22, 2010, 9:17:21 PM10/22/10
to golden-cheetah-users
This is a fantastic discussion as it's not often we have a good business minded person on board. I understand Alex's concerns but I don't see where this kind of enhancement will affect a business, in fact as you read below it might even be a positive turn.
The fact remains that most cyclists would love to self-coach (if only to save $) however most don't have a clue (myself included) how to truly train by power. Hence they know they should do LSD early on and progress to tougher stuff as the season unfolds, but when, how much of a mix? Crit racing, road racing, all around health or performance, planning an interval set and falling flat on your face one day and handily completing it some other day. Why?
A good coach is priceless and if a planner becomes part of GC (as a planner has been part of SportTracks) you'll find a lot of self coached people possibly doing better and you'll find a bunch of cyclists that use a coach will still use a coach. I actually think some people will switch from self-coached fumbling along with or without a training plan to a coached method.
No training plan can advise you or take your best interests into account. A good coach can do that and is expected to do it. The planner can only report the numbers. It's just too easy to create a set of workouts that will yield absolutely terrible results and will leave you shaking your head in disbelief thinking "But my TSB was +5 and my CTL was 102", why did I do so poorly.
--
Mark Liversedge
Oct 23, 2010, 3:50:21 AM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
On Oct 22, 11:25 pm, Matt Perry <perry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Well IMO TP is a pretty crummy solution and from a coach's POV, this
> >> is the greatest gap in the software market.
> > Gotta agree with Alex on this one. Watching a friend try to manage 40+
> > athletes' power files each day is pure pain.
> Yeah maybe TP was a bad example - I've never actually used it myself
> so I can't comment.
Let me put my cards on the table...
> >> Well IMO TP is a pretty crummy solution and from a coach's POV, this
> >> is the greatest gap in the software market.
> > Gotta agree with Alex on this one. Watching a friend try to manage 40+
> > athletes' power files each day is pure pain.
> Yeah maybe TP was a bad example - I've never actually used it myself
> so I can't comment.
I have (finally and recently) given up on self coaching and admitted
that I just don't know enough about bike training and need an
experienced expert to organise my training. Sure, I understand the
core principles of power analysis but that is a world away from
knowing how to plan and manage my training i.e. coaching. And I think
a lot of self-coachers, esp. with power, have fallen into that trap. I
now have a coach, and it is totally liberating.
I have also used TP.com for a long time, and in fact, I wrote TP.com
integration into GC almost 6 months ago and haven't published it yet
(although PWX file support is committed to the main repo which is how
TP.com receives and sends data to GC).
I previously used TP.com as a data backup and mechanism for sharing my
training on my blog and allow me to log my training when on work or
other breaks and just founf it 'handy' and relatively inexpensive.
Now, as an ex-WKO+ user I can say that, without question, using TP.com
as a cloud/communication tool and WKO+ as the desktop application is a
very powerful combination. Sure, the UI of TP.com is flex which makes
iPad/iPhone use impossible and sure it can be a little clunky at
times. But doing the heavy lifting in GC or WKO and communicating via
TP.com works really really nicely.
Right now, I use GC on my desktop and import and analyse my training
as before. But I can also upload and download my workouts to my TP.com
account. That means that when my training is done I can send it to TP,
my coach can then download it into his WKO+ make assessments and then
go into TP.com and adjust my workouts and send me feedback.
He maintains my plan in TP.com and I donwnload it into iCal at the
moment. I have already written code in GC to read the webcal url and
parse the planned data (using libical). I'm working on where to put it
(sqlite DB?) and how to view it (new diary tab?). Its slow going,
because I'm time limited at the mo and riding my bike all the time :)
The 10 steps I outlined above are something that I am definitely
working on and Gear at TP.com has already committed to reviewing the
TP code and associated PWX and Coggan metrics potentially approving it
for inclusion into GC.
All of the above is already in my hacky repo over on github if you
want to play with it, but bear in mind it is undocumented, requires
quite a few new dependencies (soap, libical) and has ALL the little
mods that I've mucked about with and is hence a bit weird (e.g. ride
summary is gone, but can be displayed on the metadata tabs).
I'm also mucking about with Racing and Training view and looking at
native ANT+ parsing and support for the new CT adaptor on windows...
but that is for another day :)
Regards,
Mark
Alex Simmons
Oct 23, 2010, 2:45:11 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
On Oct 22, 4:01 pm, Justin Knotzke <jknot...@shampoo.ca> wrote:
>
> The forum interface is Google's which is the same as the wattage
> interface..
I know, user error :)
>
> The forum interface is Google's which is the same as the wattage
> interface..
> 1) To find your files on Windows: Help-> About
> 2) Find your created athletes, Cyclist->Open
just not there. I can see two. Created one yesterday that's not there
today. I suspect I'm just not doing something right.
> 3) We support most if not all WKO files. Do you happen to have a WKO
> file you can share with us that doesn't work ?
way and shows a bunch of error messages. I have a picture of what
happens when I try to import about a week's worth of files here (I'm
not game to try for several season's worth of data):
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd226/ASimmons/GCimporterrors.jpg
It just gets stuck there, so I end up canceling the operation.
I blanked out the athlete's name.
Sorry, this probably isn't the place.
Alex Simmons
Oct 23, 2010, 2:47:13 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
On Oct 22, 4:05 pm, Justin Knotzke <jknot...@shampoo.ca> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 19:01, Justin Knotzke <jknot...@shampoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >> there were no rides notes, and Aerolab disappeared after loading it.
>
> Oh missed this one.
>
> View->Aerolab (ensure it's checked).
>
> J
There is no View menu.>
> >> there were no rides notes, and Aerolab disappeared after loading it.
>
> Oh missed this one.
>
> View->Aerolab (ensure it's checked).
>
> J
Jamie Kimberley
Oct 23, 2010, 2:55:57 PM10/23/10
to Alex Simmons, golden-cheetah-users
Alex,
you are using our last release build? or are you using our latest
stuff from here: http://goldencheetah.stand2surf.net/
The new builds have better wko support and aero lab and a lot more.
We'll hopefully put out an "official" release soon.
Thanks for the feedback.
Jamie
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Golden-Cheetah-Users mailing list
> golden-che...@googlegroups.com
> http://groups.google.com/group/golden-cheetah-users?hl=en
>
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to
Jamie Kimberley
Oct 23, 2010, 3:02:33 PM10/23/10
to Alex Simmons, golden-cheetah-users
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010, Alex Simmons wrote:
> On Oct 22, 4:01 pm, Justin Knotzke <jknot...@shampoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>> The forum interface is Google's which is the same as the wattage
>> interface..
>
> I know, user error :)
>
>> 1) To find your files on Windows: Help-> About
>
> See that, but
>
>> 2) Find your created athletes, Cyclist->Open
>
> Sure but where are they? I have created athletes in the past that are
> just not there. I can see two. Created one yesterday that's not there
> today. I suspect I'm just not doing something right.
do you have multiple versions of GC on your system? We changed the
locations of where we store data at some point, perhaps you are
creating with one version and then not seeing them in another?
If you follow the link showing where your riders files live (under
the about menu) you should be able to go up a directory and see
folders corresponding to all of your riders names. if there are
folders that you can see in windows explorer but not in the rider
list in GC (i.e the dialog spawned from cyclist->open) please let us
know if the names have anything strange about them (e.g. slashes,
*'s etc).
>> 3) We support most if not all WKO files. Do you happen to have a WKO
>> file you can share with us that doesn't work ?
>
> I use WKO+ 3.0. None of them import. When I try it just stops part
> way and shows a bunch of error messages. I have a picture of what
> happens when I try to import about a week's worth of files here (I'm
> not game to try for several season's worth of data):
> http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd226/ASimmons/GCimporterrors.jpg
as noted in another post there was some work to import older wko
files. Give it a try with the latest buids.
> It just gets stuck there, so I end up canceling the operation.
> I blanked out the athlete's name.
>
> Sorry, this probably isn't the place.
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Golden-Cheetah-Users mailing list
> golden-che...@googlegroups.com
> http://groups.google.com/group/golden-cheetah-users?hl=en
>
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to
Alex Simmons
Oct 23, 2010, 3:03:28 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
Sounds good but for the most part I have no idea what you are talking
about (the software part I mean, not the "I'm better off with a coach"
part). :D
As a coach, I don't want to have to go searching for online accounts
with a clunky interface, downloading/importing stuff. That's admin
overhead I just don't need. If it ain't automatic, then getting a
simple email with the files attached and saving into a directory is
quicker and easier and I know the athlete is getting stuff to me along
with some overview commentary on how the day or week has gone.
But it's entirely possible I just don't know how all this stuff works
or what it can do (in fact it's quite evident when I look at the
problems I have with using GC). But as soon as I see steps that
involve more admin overhead, and not less, I stop right there.
I've tried stuff like dropbox and mesh but it ends up being a mess and
take more of my time to manage, not less.
about (the software part I mean, not the "I'm better off with a coach"
part). :D
As a coach, I don't want to have to go searching for online accounts
with a clunky interface, downloading/importing stuff. That's admin
overhead I just don't need. If it ain't automatic, then getting a
simple email with the files attached and saving into a directory is
quicker and easier and I know the athlete is getting stuff to me along
with some overview commentary on how the day or week has gone.
But it's entirely possible I just don't know how all this stuff works
or what it can do (in fact it's quite evident when I look at the
problems I have with using GC). But as soon as I see steps that
involve more admin overhead, and not less, I stop right there.
I've tried stuff like dropbox and mesh but it ends up being a mess and
take more of my time to manage, not less.
Alex Simmons
Oct 23, 2010, 3:19:09 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
Hi Fernando
I have no doubt that this would eventually encourage more people to
engage a coach.
But getting coaching clients is not a problem I (we) have. Most of
the time I have a waitlist. I don't have the capacity to grow my
income stream further from coaching* (other than raising prices - but
that has a limit too).
I have the capacity to grow an income stream by helping other coaches
do a better job by arming them with coaching support tools that work.
Make sense?
* I note some comments and have heard from others that have something
like 40 clients. That ain't coaching IMO. It's another service, not
sure what to call it.
On Oct 22, 6:17 pm, Fernando Maldonado
I have no doubt that this would eventually encourage more people to
engage a coach.
But getting coaching clients is not a problem I (we) have. Most of
the time I have a waitlist. I don't have the capacity to grow my
income stream further from coaching* (other than raising prices - but
that has a limit too).
I have the capacity to grow an income stream by helping other coaches
do a better job by arming them with coaching support tools that work.
Make sense?
* I note some comments and have heard from others that have something
like 40 clients. That ain't coaching IMO. It's another service, not
sure what to call it.
On Oct 22, 6:17 pm, Fernando Maldonado
<fernando.j.maldon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a fantastic discussion as it's not often we have a good business
> minded person on board. I understand Alex's concerns but I don't see where
> this kind of enhancement will affect a business, in fact as you read below
> it might even be a positive turn.
>
> The fact remains that most cyclists would love to self-coach (if only to
> save $) however most don't have a clue (myself included) how to truly train
> by power. Hence they know they should do LSD early on and progress to
> tougher stuff as the season unfolds, but when, how much of a mix? Crit
> racing, road racing, all around health or performance, planning an interval
> set and falling flat on your face one day and handily completing it some
> other day. Why?
>
> A good coach is priceless and if a planner becomes part of GC (as a planner
> has been part of SportTracks) you'll find a lot of self coached people
> possibly doing better and you'll find a bunch of cyclists that use a coach
> will still use a coach. I actually think some people will switch from
> self-coached fumbling along with or without a training plan to a coached
> method.
>
> No training plan can advise you or take your best interests into account. A
> good coach can do that and is expected to do it. The planner can only report
> the numbers. It's just too easy to create a set of workouts that will yield
> absolutely terrible results and will leave you shaking your head in
> disbelief thinking "But my TSB was +5 and my CTL was 102", why did I do so
> poorly.
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Justin Knotzke <jknot...@shampoo.ca> wrote:
> This is a fantastic discussion as it's not often we have a good business
> minded person on board. I understand Alex's concerns but I don't see where
> this kind of enhancement will affect a business, in fact as you read below
> it might even be a positive turn.
>
> The fact remains that most cyclists would love to self-coach (if only to
> save $) however most don't have a clue (myself included) how to truly train
> by power. Hence they know they should do LSD early on and progress to
> tougher stuff as the season unfolds, but when, how much of a mix? Crit
> racing, road racing, all around health or performance, planning an interval
> set and falling flat on your face one day and handily completing it some
> other day. Why?
>
> A good coach is priceless and if a planner becomes part of GC (as a planner
> has been part of SportTracks) you'll find a lot of self coached people
> possibly doing better and you'll find a bunch of cyclists that use a coach
> will still use a coach. I actually think some people will switch from
> self-coached fumbling along with or without a training plan to a coached
> method.
>
> No training plan can advise you or take your best interests into account. A
> good coach can do that and is expected to do it. The planner can only report
> the numbers. It's just too easy to create a set of workouts that will yield
> absolutely terrible results and will leave you shaking your head in
> disbelief thinking "But my TSB was +5 and my CTL was 102", why did I do so
> poorly.
>
Alex Simmons
Oct 23, 2010, 3:28:02 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
On Oct 23, 11:55 am, Jamie Kimberley <jamie.kimber...@jhu.edu> wrote:
> Alex,
>
> you are using our last release build? or are you using our latest
> stuff from here:http://goldencheetah.stand2surf.net/
Mine says 1.3.0 and that's what the download page says is latest?
> Alex,
>
> you are using our last release build? or are you using our latest
> stuff from here:http://goldencheetah.stand2surf.net/
This is what I'm looking at:
http://goldencheetah.org/download.html
What are development builds? Looks like a long list.
Do I have to go back and somehow install all these things?
>
> The new builds have better wko support and aero lab and a lot more.
>
> We'll hopefully put out an "official" release soon.
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
> Jamie
d78
Oct 23, 2010, 3:56:57 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
They are complete builds so you just go for the latest build for your
operating system which is yesterday's. Don't worry about your data as
that doesn't get touched when the new builds are installed.
operating system which is yesterday's. Don't worry about your data as
that doesn't get touched when the new builds are installed.
Alex Simmons
Oct 23, 2010, 4:10:53 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
On Oct 23, 12:02 pm, Jamie Kimberley <jamie.kimber...@jhu.edu> wrote:
>
> do you have multiple versions of GC on your system?
Don't know. Maybe?
>
> do you have multiple versions of GC on your system?
Whenever I open an athlete, it launches another GC window.
If I have multiple athletes open, it means I'll have multiple GC
windows. Is that right?
How do I make them auto fit my screen instead of having to resize
them?
> We changed the
> locations of where we store data at some point, perhaps you are
> creating with one version and then not seeing them in another?
>
> If you follow the link showing where your riders files live (under
> the about menu) you should be able to go up a directory and see
> folders corresponding to all of your riders names. if there are
> folders that you can see in windows explorer but not in the rider
> list in GC (i.e the dialog spawned from cyclist->open) please let us
> know if the names have anything strange about them (e.g. slashes,
> *'s etc).
box.
Maybe I had something different going before, because as I said
earlier, I had one version at some stage where I could use Aerolab,
but what I see now doesn't have that. So maybe where ever that went,
is where I had other stuff.
>
> as noted in another post there was some work to import older wko
> files. Give it a try with the latest buids.
OK - dummy time - so what do I click on to get latest build?
d78
Oct 23, 2010, 4:17:35 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
Go to:
http://goldencheetah.stand2surf.net/
Under 2010-10-22 - Bug Fix
the first item is windows 32bit/64bit installer - click on it (not the
md5)
Save it to your desktop or whereever. Double click it when finished.
Press next to install and close when finished. Start GC as normal.
http://goldencheetah.stand2surf.net/
Under 2010-10-22 - Bug Fix
the first item is windows 32bit/64bit installer - click on it (not the
md5)
Save it to your desktop or whereever. Double click it when finished.
Press next to install and close when finished. Start GC as normal.
Jamie Kimberley
Oct 23, 2010, 4:18:35 PM10/23/10
to Alex Simmons, golden-cheetah-users
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010, Alex Simmons wrote:
The problem files you showed in the image were from 2008 and 2009,
likely pre wko v3. in any case try the latest build.
> OK - dummy time - so what do I click on to get latest build?
got to:
http://goldencheetah.stand2surf.net/
and click the link that says"Windows 32bit/64bit Installer" in the
latest entry.
Alex Simmons
Oct 23, 2010, 4:38:21 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
Thanks!
OK I installed that and tried to import some WKO+ 3.0 files (my own)
and:
on first go, GC crashes and shuts down.
second go same happens as before the upgrade - it just gets stuck with
a list of warnings and one error.
This is what I see:
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd226/ASimmons/GCimporterrors1.jpg
OK I installed that and tried to import some WKO+ 3.0 files (my own)
and:
on first go, GC crashes and shuts down.
second go same happens as before the upgrade - it just gets stuck with
a list of warnings and one error.
This is what I see:
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd226/ASimmons/GCimporterrors1.jpg
Fernando Maldonado
Oct 23, 2010, 5:12:13 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
All this discussion about the latest GC builds brings up a question/comment. I vaguely remember some point where the feature set was going to be frozen so that the next official build could get locked into place (1.4 I assume). Shortly after that, Aerolab was created and from there it's been one thing after another. It's wonderful for people on the bleeding edge that don't mind keeping a couple of different versions of GC or even making their own builds.
However, someone like Alex is only interested in a clean running version without issues and the very important feature of being able to import WKO files without errors or metric to english conversion issues. Have the powers that be thought about drawing the line and actually releasing a 1.4 before even more "stuff" gets added.
I'm not criticizing since I'm one of those blokes that gladly lives on the bleeding edge but there are more Alex types who could greatly benefit from GC if a newer stable release were available.
My 2¢
Jamie Kimberley
Oct 23, 2010, 5:19:11 PM10/23/10
to Fernando Maldonado, golden-cheetah-users
Fernando,
I agree completely.
For the most part the dev builds are stable but at some point we
need to push a release out the door. Hopefully sometime this fall
we'll be able to get things to a state the is worthy of a release.
If we look at the bug tracker I think we'll see that there isn't
much keeping us from pushing out a release, but we still need to tidy
up a few things before we push something official out the door.
Jamie
On Sat, 23 Oct 2010, Fernando Maldonado wrote:
> All this discussion about the latest GC builds brings up a question/comment.
> I vaguely remember some point where the feature set was going to be frozen
> so that the next official build could get locked into place (1.4 I assume).
> Shortly after that, Aerolab was created and from there it's been one thing
> after another. It's wonderful for people on the bleeding edge that don't
> mind keeping a couple of different versions of GC or even making their own
> builds.
>
> However, someone like Alex is only interested in a clean running version
> without issues and the very important feature of being able to import WKO
> files without errors or metric to english conversion issues. Have the powers
> that be thought about drawing the line and actually releasing a 1.4 before
> even more "stuff" gets added.
>
> I'm not criticizing since I'm one of those blokes that gladly lives on the
> bleeding edge but there are more Alex types who could greatly benefit from
> GC if a newer stable release were available.
>
> My 2?
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Alex Simmons <alex.s...@bigpond.com>wrote:
>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> OK I installed that and tried to import some WKO+ 3.0 files (my own)
>> and:
>>
>> on first go, GC crashes and shuts down.
>>
>> second go same happens as before the upgrade - it just gets stuck with
>> a list of warnings and one error.
>>
>> This is what I see:
>> http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd226/ASimmons/GCimporterrors1.jpg
>>
>> --
>> _______________________________________________
>> Golden-Cheetah-Users mailing list
>> golden-che...@googlegroups.com
>> http://groups.google.com/group/golden-cheetah-users?hl=en
>>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Golden-Cheetah-Users mailing list
> golden-che...@googlegroups.com
> http://groups.google.com/group/golden-cheetah-users?hl=en
"You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to
Mark Liversedge
Oct 23, 2010, 5:32:53 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
On Oct 23, 10:12 pm, Fernando Maldonado
reckon we should decide which bugs need to be squashed first and nail
those before making a release candidate? I think the tab switch bug is
the most obvious one (?).
Once we've done a stable release I'd love to see a .deb submitted to
the Debian package repository for Linux and also try and get a .dmg (I
assume) into the Mac App Store for OS X :)
<fernando.j.maldon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not criticizing since I'm one of those blokes that gladly lives on the
> bleeding edge but there are more Alex types who could greatly benefit from
> GC if a newer stable release were available.
I agree, we really need to get an "official" stable release "1.4". I
> I'm not criticizing since I'm one of those blokes that gladly lives on the
> bleeding edge but there are more Alex types who could greatly benefit from
> GC if a newer stable release were available.
reckon we should decide which bugs need to be squashed first and nail
those before making a release candidate? I think the tab switch bug is
the most obvious one (?).
Once we've done a stable release I'd love to see a .deb submitted to
the Debian package repository for Linux and also try and get a .dmg (I
assume) into the Mac App Store for OS X :)
d78
Oct 23, 2010, 5:51:04 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
Ok,
As I have nothing to do tonight I decided to import all my WKO+ 3.0
files into GC (always download directly) to see what happened. I too
get the warning however if you just press save it will import them
without issue. I checked half a dozen files in the ride summary and it
was giving exactly the same information so GC direct download and wko+
import agree.
I did notice that all the warnings came on files from 19 July 2010
onwards. It seems that there was a change to the naming structure (and
I assume was part of a bigger release) whereby the ride time is
appended to the file name (very useful addition) which I notice in
most of your files in your screenshot. The one thing I did notice is
that the files that were giving you errors as opposed to warnings did
not follow this naming structure ie saved with date only in the name
and no time appended so guessing this was not a direct download. I got
the same errors and these were all related to manual TSS override ie
where no power data was available and I estimated the TSS. This isn't
imported into GC as TSS doesn't exist in GC so depending on how often
you and your athletes use manual override you could find the process
of handling these cumbersome. Though my error said there were no
charts available and yours doesn't say that so it may not be related
to TSS override in your case.
As I have nothing to do tonight I decided to import all my WKO+ 3.0
files into GC (always download directly) to see what happened. I too
get the warning however if you just press save it will import them
without issue. I checked half a dozen files in the ride summary and it
was giving exactly the same information so GC direct download and wko+
import agree.
I did notice that all the warnings came on files from 19 July 2010
onwards. It seems that there was a change to the naming structure (and
I assume was part of a bigger release) whereby the ride time is
appended to the file name (very useful addition) which I notice in
most of your files in your screenshot. The one thing I did notice is
that the files that were giving you errors as opposed to warnings did
not follow this naming structure ie saved with date only in the name
and no time appended so guessing this was not a direct download. I got
the same errors and these were all related to manual TSS override ie
where no power data was available and I estimated the TSS. This isn't
imported into GC as TSS doesn't exist in GC so depending on how often
you and your athletes use manual override you could find the process
of handling these cumbersome. Though my error said there were no
charts available and yours doesn't say that so it may not be related
to TSS override in your case.
Fernando Maldonado
Oct 23, 2010, 6:08:10 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
I always get warnings when import WKO 3.0 files however they do import. As a matter of fact they bring in my iBike wind data which GC doesn't do. However, as I previously pointed out there is an error in metric to english conversion/display so that elevation is not displayed properly in the plot.
Alex Simmons
Oct 23, 2010, 7:53:27 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
On Oct 23, 2:51 pm, d78 <doyle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok,
>
> As I have nothing to do tonight I decided to import all my WKO+ 3.0
> files into GC (always download directly) to see what happened. I too
> get the warning however if you just press save it will import them
> without issue.
Ah, OK. So I try again.
> Ok,
>
> As I have nothing to do tonight I decided to import all my WKO+ 3.0
> files into GC (always download directly) to see what happened. I too
> get the warning however if you just press save it will import them
> without issue.
The first time it crashes GC.
Second time I hit save and yes it's saved stuff. Except the ones
listed as errors.
> I did notice that all the warnings came on files from 19 July 2010
> onwards. It seems that there was a change to the naming structure (and
> I assume was part of a bigger release) whereby the ride time is
> appended to the file name (very useful addition) which I notice in
> most of your files in your screenshot. The one thing I did notice is
> that the files that were giving you errors as opposed to warnings did
> not follow this naming structure ie saved with date only in the name
> and no time appended so guessing this was not a direct download. I got
> the same errors and these were all related to manual TSS override ie
> where no power data was available and I estimated the TSS.
entries nonetheless. In fact some of the most important athlete files
are ones with no power data. What an athlete says is pretty important
too.
> This isn't
> imported into GC as TSS doesn't exist in GC so depending on how often
> you and your athletes use manual override you could find the process
> of handling these cumbersome.
So I look at the first file in that list I imported and this is the
ride summary it shows:
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd226/ASimmons/GCissues1.jpg
As much as I'd like to boast of climbing 78,000km and averaging Mach
6.3 on my bike on a Saturday morning, I somehow think something is
amiss.
Then I click on the ride plot and it makes shows nothing, hit another
one of the tabs (CP I think) and GC crashes.
Sorry to be a PITA. I'm checking out for a little while as I'm heading
out, off to airport and boarding a 14.5 long haul flight home.
Justin Knotzke
Oct 23, 2010, 7:59:27 PM10/23/10
to Alex Simmons, golden-cheetah-users
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 19:53, Alex Simmons <alex.s...@bigpond.com> wrote:
Ah, OK. So I try again.
The first time it crashes GC.
Second time I hit save and yes it's saved stuff. Except the ones
listed as errors.
So it sounds like all the issues you have remaining is that we don't fully support WKO's proprietary file format from their latest release (a known issue at that). I had asked you several emails ago and I will ask you again: can you please send us the one file that you listed in your last email that causes you problems ?
Until we get that file, you will be stuck with WKO+.
J
d78
Oct 23, 2010, 8:19:46 PM10/23/10
to golden-cheetah-users
It's not a version 3 issue - it is a problem with manual workout
entries. I have tested both in wko2.2 and 3.0 and both fail to import
into GC. Both give the same error message about there being no chart
information.
I would attach a file however all my attempts to add a file to the
files section are failing so not sure what's up with that.
On Oct 24, 12:59 am, Justin Knotzke <jknot...@shampoo.ca> wrote:
entries. I have tested both in wko2.2 and 3.0 and both fail to import
into GC. Both give the same error message about there being no chart
information.
I would attach a file however all my attempts to add a file to the
files section are failing so not sure what's up with that.
On Oct 24, 12:59 am, Justin Knotzke <jknot...@shampoo.ca> wrote:
Justin Knotzke
Oct 24, 2010, 5:27:31 AM10/24/10
to d78, golden-cheetah-users
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 20:19, d78 <doyl...@gmail.com> wrote:
It's not a version 3 issue - it is a problem with manual workout
entries. I have tested both in wko2.2 and 3.0 and both fail to import
into GC. Both give the same error message about there being no chart
information.
I would attach a file however all my attempts to add a file to the
files section are failing so not sure what's up with that.
Thanks for sending me those files off list. However, the files you sent do not exhibit the same problem as the problems that Alex Simmons was exhibiting.
The files you sent are simply rejected by GC. This may not be what you wished for, but it does not cause GC to crash.
The problems Alex was having caused either GC to crash or show incorrect information.
Does anyone have access to files that reproduce these problems ?
J
d78
Oct 24, 2010, 5:47:22 AM10/24/10
to golden-cheetah-users
Actually if you read his 12.53am response to my post you will see that
Alex has several issues one of which is the problem of manual workout
enteries not being imported into GC and that's because as we now know
from Mark is because it isn't contained within the .wko file so it
can't be imported. He has stated in that post that this inability
would be deal breaker as a lot of important information is contained
in manual entries, including TSS overrides, athelete feedback (a
problem with all transfers but he probably hasn't realised that yet),
etc so it is a significant problem for anyone with multiple athletes
to switch to GC. It's not a huge issue for me as I just take a list of
the problem files and transfer the data manually in GC by copying and
pasting.
The other issues which you have highlighted are just more problems he
is having and beyond anything I can help with :)
On Oct 24, 10:27 am, Justin Knotzke <jknot...@shampoo.ca> wrote:
Alex has several issues one of which is the problem of manual workout
enteries not being imported into GC and that's because as we now know
from Mark is because it isn't contained within the .wko file so it
can't be imported. He has stated in that post that this inability
would be deal breaker as a lot of important information is contained
in manual entries, including TSS overrides, athelete feedback (a
problem with all transfers but he probably hasn't realised that yet),
etc so it is a significant problem for anyone with multiple athletes
to switch to GC. It's not a huge issue for me as I just take a list of
the problem files and transfer the data manually in GC by copying and
pasting.
The other issues which you have highlighted are just more problems he
is having and beyond anything I can help with :)
On Oct 24, 10:27 am, Justin Knotzke <jknot...@shampoo.ca> wrote:
Justin Knotzke
Oct 24, 2010, 5:54:18 AM10/24/10
to d78, golden-cheetah-users
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 05:47, d78 <doyl...@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually if you read his 12.53am response to my post you will see that
Alex has several issues one of which is the problem of manual workout
enteries not being imported into GC and that's because as we now know
from Mark is because it isn't contained within the .wko file so it
can't be imported. He has stated in that post that this inability
would be deal breaker as a lot of important information is contained
in manual entries, including TSS overrides, athelete feedback (a
problem with all transfers but he probably hasn't realised that yet),
etc so it is a significant problem for anyone with multiple athletes
to switch to GC. It's not a huge issue for me as I just take a list of
the problem files and transfer the data manually in GC by copying and
pasting.
Right, but that is a feature request. I'm more concerned with crashes or bugs.
Thanks
J
Julian
Oct 24, 2010, 11:01:52 AM10/24/10
to golden-cheetah-users
All,
Not to be the buzz kill that brings this conversation back from the
brink of what's readily be coming quite acrimonious... Perhaps we
ought to stay on topic and keep this a discussion about the feature I
raised in my initial post. Issues about uploads and file formats are
best addressed in a new thread if for no other reason than fidelity
and reference for other stumped users.
I received a lot of interest in my excel workbook and I sent a copy
(the dropbox link) to everyone that emailed me... If anyone is still
interested it can be found here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6564666/Training4.xls
It's a work in progress so buyer beware...
Mark's 10 steps are pretty much spot on with respect to the technical
end and from what I understand and what I've seen in his repo it
appears that this is indeed something that he's been playing around
with in broad strokes... Mark's got a great track record of whipping
up neat code so I for one am excited to see what develops.
I put together two sketches of how I see the interface/workflow
working... these are really rough and might not make sense with
respect to how the code gets built but oh well..
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6564666/1.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6564666/2.jpg
I'm also thinking of taking up donations with the goal of helping see
this to fruition- GC is a hobby of everyone involved and the donation
of time and energy has yielded a pretty damn awesome product. For
folk like me who have more ideas than technical ability it seems only
fair that I put some weight behind my begging and pleading for a
feature I want... So I'm going to look into ways of organizing this,
if anyone knows a way to do that please share, and hopefully we can
encourage, urge, bribe someone to whipping it up... ;)
-Julian
Not to be the buzz kill that brings this conversation back from the
brink of what's readily be coming quite acrimonious... Perhaps we
ought to stay on topic and keep this a discussion about the feature I
raised in my initial post. Issues about uploads and file formats are
best addressed in a new thread if for no other reason than fidelity
and reference for other stumped users.
I received a lot of interest in my excel workbook and I sent a copy
(the dropbox link) to everyone that emailed me... If anyone is still
interested it can be found here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6564666/Training4.xls
It's a work in progress so buyer beware...
Mark's 10 steps are pretty much spot on with respect to the technical
end and from what I understand and what I've seen in his repo it
appears that this is indeed something that he's been playing around
with in broad strokes... Mark's got a great track record of whipping
up neat code so I for one am excited to see what develops.
I put together two sketches of how I see the interface/workflow
working... these are really rough and might not make sense with
respect to how the code gets built but oh well..
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6564666/1.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6564666/2.jpg
I'm also thinking of taking up donations with the goal of helping see
this to fruition- GC is a hobby of everyone involved and the donation
of time and energy has yielded a pretty damn awesome product. For
folk like me who have more ideas than technical ability it seems only
fair that I put some weight behind my begging and pleading for a
feature I want... So I'm going to look into ways of organizing this,
if anyone knows a way to do that please share, and hopefully we can
encourage, urge, bribe someone to whipping it up... ;)
-Julian
Andy Froncioni
Oct 24, 2010, 11:12:19 AM10/24/10
to golden-cheetah-users
> * I note some comments and have heard from others that have something
> like 40 clients. That ain't coaching IMO. It's another service, not
> sure what to call it.
>
I think I mentioned the coaching friend with the 40 athletes. Yeah, I
guess it's more "exercise accounting" than it is coaching, but there is
room for this too.
Alex Simmons
Oct 24, 2010, 7:53:22 PM10/24/10
to golden-cheetah-users
On Oct 25, 2:01 am, Julian <julian.baumgart...@gmail.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> Not to be the buzz kill that brings this conversation back from the
> brink of what's readily be coming quite acrimonious...
Right, and I said my other issues were OT. I sent Justin a sep email
> All,
>
> Not to be the buzz kill that brings this conversation back from the
> brink of what's readily be coming quite acrimonious...
asking for clarification as to what he needs 'cause I'm not real sure.
As for acrimonious - in what way? I'm just offering my opinion as a
full time professional cycling coach and my experience with GC, which
hasn't been all that encouraging so far.
That's either because I don't know what I'm doing (quite likely), it
doesn't execute things available in the menu options (e.g.
successfully importing WKO+ files) or it just isn't stable enough to
be considered an option for running a coaching business.
But mainly because it just isn't focused on what a coach most needs.
Hence commenting on something that would take GC more towards
something useful for a coach (i.e. a planner tool amongst a whole
range of stuff). I have something already but would like to be
convinced it should simply be handed over for nada. The business case
proffered so far is weak IMO.
Coaching is not a hobby for me (us). It is our profession and sole
source of income. It's a business. My requirements are for robust
tools that fulfill coach's needs as opposed to hobbyist ultra analysis
of an individual or individual rider file.
OK, I'll leave it at that because it seems I'm upsetting the apple
cart. Must be that long haul flight I just got off. Carry on. :-)
Mark Liversedge
Oct 25, 2010, 4:21:47 AM10/25/10
to golden-cheetah-users
In fact, if we were a professional organisation making this software
for a living we would likely pay you for your input into the design
process. It is great to hear frank feedback, the only way GC is going
to get better is going to be through acting upon it. Although It's a
bit like telling someone their first born is pig-ugly! :) We certainly
shouldn't 'shoot the messenger'.
So far I think we have;
1. .wko file import has some bugs, that make GC crash - we just need
some files to recreate the bugs and we can squish them
2. no planning functions - we have a list if things to do, just need
time (and volunteers) to write them :)
3. handling multiple cyclists is a bit 'quirky' - maybe its just
different to wko? maybe it could be improved? need more ideas from
everyone here
4. workflow for coaches is not present - should be tied in with 2 and
3 IMHO
I would personally add;
5. the UI is a bit weird* - its a bunch of charts and a file list,
with rich functionality hidden away, maybe this reflects its heritage
(gnuplot/commandline) (?)
6. the documentation went missing - coupled with #5 above makes for a
toxic combination for new users / non-technical folks
So, keep it coming, I for one am really glad you have taken the time
to say these things.
Regards,
Mark
* including handling multiple cyclists.
Julian
Oct 25, 2010, 8:04:50 AM10/25/10
to golden-cheetah-users
Just out of curiosity, how hard is it to rearrange the layout of GC?
While I've become accustomed to the quirky layout I can envision
several alternative ways of organizing the program that at least to me
seems a bit more logical...
I have some more sketches somewhere that I put together a while ago
regarding the layout... I have to dig them up and take another look
but I'll post them when I find them...
-J
While I've become accustomed to the quirky layout I can envision
several alternative ways of organizing the program that at least to me
seems a bit more logical...
I have some more sketches somewhere that I put together a while ago
regarding the layout... I have to dig them up and take another look
but I'll post them when I find them...
-J
Mattyb
Oct 26, 2010, 8:11:38 AM10/26/10
to golden-cheetah-users
I love the idea of a workout planner and the layout Mark listed.
The ultimate I think would be to have the ability to select an
interval from a ride, save it to an interval library and be able to
build a work out with pieced together intervals.
I'm still a learning coder so it's beyond my abilities.
On the topic of coaching software, perhaps I am looking at this
differently but I see it as two separate issues and projects.
As of the current build, I see GC as more of a tool for athletes that
are already self coached and far from a coaching tool.
While a workout planner (with all the incorporated steps discussed),
it takes it a step closer to a coaching tool but I still see it
predominantly as a tool for athletes that are already self coached.
Julian has displayed his ideas as a means of combining his self
coaching methods into a single app - I do the exact same thing.
Moving on from where GC is currently I see the following:
1. develop planning and plan integration into GC as is
2. develop coaching tools such as good multi athlete management,
communications etc
Sorry if I am off on this
The ultimate I think would be to have the ability to select an
interval from a ride, save it to an interval library and be able to
build a work out with pieced together intervals.
I'm still a learning coder so it's beyond my abilities.
On the topic of coaching software, perhaps I am looking at this
differently but I see it as two separate issues and projects.
As of the current build, I see GC as more of a tool for athletes that
are already self coached and far from a coaching tool.
While a workout planner (with all the incorporated steps discussed),
it takes it a step closer to a coaching tool but I still see it
predominantly as a tool for athletes that are already self coached.
Julian has displayed his ideas as a means of combining his self
coaching methods into a single app - I do the exact same thing.
Moving on from where GC is currently I see the following:
1. develop planning and plan integration into GC as is
2. develop coaching tools such as good multi athlete management,
communications etc
Sorry if I am off on this
Julian
Oct 26, 2010, 8:36:59 AM10/26/10
to golden-cheetah-users
Mattyb is on point in that I believe GC is at the moment an analysis
tool-a brilliant one at that! I'd like to see it develop into a
proactive tool as well thus rounding out the feature set: proactive
planning tool, real-time training/racing tool, and post-ride analysis
tool. One of the major goals is also to educate athletes who would
like to coach themselves on how to do so- there's a lot of information
but it can be overwhelming. Further, it wasn't until I could actually
see, on a chart and in graphs the effect of the workouts I was
building that I truly started to understand all that one has to be
aware of when designing a training plan. If GC can begin to help
people who want to learn about building training plans that would be
awesome.
In chatting with Andrea off list we came up with the idea that the
Golden Cheetah website could also host a repository of saved training
plans- that is, a user could not only create and save their plan
locally, not only transfer it to a device or to iCal or xml etc... but
also upload it to the GC server when other users could download it for
their own uses. As the plans would be saved in some set format as
Mark L. outlined and as they would be based off FTP/CP they would be
easily transferable to other users.
So imagine you're in a bind and want to train up for a century but you
only have 5 weeks... you could open GC, go to the training mode,
browse through a repository of plans, find one that John Doe wrote for
a 5-week course and download it to your calendar and start working
away...
Take it one step further... the repository could be any web server and
a coach could create plans, store them on his/her server and sell
access to them to clients... there are several coaches who do this
already but provide only a spreadsheet or a pdf of workouts...
Hot damn, I'm liking the way this is theoretically coming together! I
wanna throw some cash at this... any takers!!!
;)
-Julian
tool-a brilliant one at that! I'd like to see it develop into a
proactive tool as well thus rounding out the feature set: proactive
planning tool, real-time training/racing tool, and post-ride analysis
tool. One of the major goals is also to educate athletes who would
like to coach themselves on how to do so- there's a lot of information
but it can be overwhelming. Further, it wasn't until I could actually
see, on a chart and in graphs the effect of the workouts I was
building that I truly started to understand all that one has to be
aware of when designing a training plan. If GC can begin to help
people who want to learn about building training plans that would be
awesome.
In chatting with Andrea off list we came up with the idea that the
Golden Cheetah website could also host a repository of saved training
plans- that is, a user could not only create and save their plan
locally, not only transfer it to a device or to iCal or xml etc... but
also upload it to the GC server when other users could download it for
their own uses. As the plans would be saved in some set format as
Mark L. outlined and as they would be based off FTP/CP they would be
easily transferable to other users.
So imagine you're in a bind and want to train up for a century but you
only have 5 weeks... you could open GC, go to the training mode,
browse through a repository of plans, find one that John Doe wrote for
a 5-week course and download it to your calendar and start working
away...
Take it one step further... the repository could be any web server and
a coach could create plans, store them on his/her server and sell
access to them to clients... there are several coaches who do this
already but provide only a spreadsheet or a pdf of workouts...
Hot damn, I'm liking the way this is theoretically coming together! I
wanna throw some cash at this... any takers!!!
;)
-Julian
Eli Molloy
Jan 30, 2014, 7:55:55 PM1/30/14
to golden-che...@googlegroups.com
Julian,
I stumbled across this post while searching for an excel file that I could use to set up the upcoming season's training schedule. If you still have the file you mention here and are willing to share it with me I would appreciate it very much. Thanks!
On Friday, October 22, 2010 9:40:39 AM UTC-5, Julian wrote:
I stumbled across this post while searching for an excel file that I could use to set up the upcoming season's training schedule. If you still have the file you mention here and are willing to share it with me I would appreciate it very much. Thanks!
On Friday, October 22, 2010 9:40:39 AM UTC-5, Julian wrote:
All,
I've mentioned this once before and there seemed to be some interest
but as it was the springtime most of us were too engrosed in actually
riding our bikes to take up a new feature in GC... In any event as
the season has wrapped up for most of us and the long hours of the
winter approach I thought I'd raise the idea again and see if anyone
is game...
For a few years I've been using an Excel workbook that allows me to
build a training program (I will share it with those who are
interested). Simple enough really but I've found it tremendously
helpful (along with my teammates, many of whom stopped paying for
coaching after seeing this) in planning backwards from races and
peaks. The basic idea is that for each workout I enter the specifics
in time and IF (breaking workouts down into intervals etc...) and the
spreadsheet computes the relevant metrics. These metrics are then
used on a performance manager style chart, a ramp rate chart, and a
rolling TSS values chart. Essentially what the workbook allows me to
do is to plot out all of my workouts while seeing what the results
will be all the while keeping track of my ramp rate and accumulating
TSS so I don't blow up! So I can plot out a month of training, say
threshold, and look at the Performance Manager Chart and see where
that month of training will leave me with respect to ATL, CTL and
TSB...
Of course it's not perfect and does take some massaging but it allows
me to see what will happen if I would complete all the workouts to a
T. Further, when I plot my actual PMC against the Predicted PMC it
shows me if I'm straying from my plan. As is often the case I skip a
few workouts or add a few but never knew what the effect on my
trajectory was... now I know, and better yet, I can then take
corrective action so to not miss my mark.
When I first raised the idea I found Keisuke's patch that allows one
to create stepped workouts and transfer them to the Edge 500 and 705.
Essentially Keisuke has built the first part of my idea- a feature
that allows a user to create a bank of stepped workouts. Keisuke's
patch didn't contain the ability to calculate metrics from the workout
but I assume (perhaps naively?) that's fairly easy to add for some of
you coding ninjas. From there I can't see how the next step would be
very hard as it seems it would be as simple as creating a mirror of
the calendar to store all the projected training data and then using
those values on the metrics tab...? Further it would be great to be
able to transfer those workouts from the calendar to a device...
My belief is that this is the next logical step in training software-
software that aides one in not just taking an analytic role in their
training but a proactive role in creating the training. Again I'm not
going to be much use in coding but I can help out in other ways and
I'm not adverse to making some financial contribution to seeing this
get off the ground.
If anyone is interested by all means contact me as I truly believe
this will be hugely beneficial to coaches, users and those people who
are just learning how to balance all the factors that go into creating
a training plan... GC is without a doubt the most advanced and
promising power analysis software around and I feel this feature would
simply blow people away.
-Julian
Menko Johnson
Jan 31, 2014, 12:02:46 PM1/31/14
to Eli Molloy, golden-cheetah-users
Julian, I'd be interested as well.
In general, I would like to know what graphs people have setup/customized in GC as I haven't really found the chart creation tool in 3.0 as easy to use, and so I never recreated a lot of the custom charts I had in 2.0. One that I really liked and haven't recreated was a PMC with 20 min power tracked over time. And of course being able to take the CP curve with 2 different times on top of each other (eg: last 4 weeks, vs. the year, all time, whatever). I am super appreciative of the time spent by Mark and the team on putting the program together, and the energy put into that is awesome. Menko
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Menko Johnson
Julian
Jan 31, 2014, 8:49:18 PM1/31/14
to golden-che...@googlegroups.com, Eli Molloy
Hi Eli and Menko,
Here's a link to a modified training workbook. I created the original and some time later Antonio Guenzler made some modifications to it. Please use it, train hard, kick butt and enjoy!!
I'm hoping that one day the ideas I laid out in the original thread will become part of GoldenCheetah as in my opinion it would place GC heads and shoulders above all other cycling software... In the meantime, we still have Excel and this workbook ;)
-Julian
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Mark Liversedge
Feb 1, 2014, 5:07:16 AM2/1/14
to golden-che...@googlegroups.com, Eli Molloy
Don't fret Julian, we will be implementing an interactive PMC in v3.2 once v3.1 is done.
:)
Mark
Julian
Feb 1, 2014, 9:50:50 AM2/1/14
to golden-che...@googlegroups.com
Mind : BLOWN!!!
Mark- my time is at a super premium with work and a newborn at home and despite my lack of C coding abilities I very much want to assist in any way I can-I've been dreaming and visualizing this feature for years and can't tell you how excited I am!!!
Keep me posted :D
-J
Jacob Schoen
Mar 20, 2014, 7:22:59 PM3/20/14
to golden-che...@googlegroups.com
Can you send me the spreadsheet?
thank you,
Jacob
Will
Mar 22, 2014, 8:18:11 PM3/22/14
to golden-che...@googlegroups.com
I'd really like to try the spreadsheet, as well, when you have time.
Thanks!
Will
Jason Morgan
Mar 23, 2014, 10:04:06 PM3/23/14
to golden-che...@googlegroups.com
A link was posted.
Here it is again.
pbar...@gmail.com
Aug 12, 2016, 4:05:51 PM8/12/16
to golden-cheetah-users
Hi Julian,
I would love to see your spreadsheet if you could share it with me I would be very thankful. pbar...@gmail.com
thanks,
Paulo
Julian
Aug 14, 2016, 1:07:00 PM8/14/16
to golden-cheetah-users
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6564666/Training%20Template.xls
I'll keep the file there indefinitely (or until I don't ;)
Keep in mind that some variation of this is coming to GC thanks to Mark...
Keep in mind that some variation of this is coming to GC thanks to Mark...
Shawn Hime
Mar 29, 2017, 12:55:46 PM3/29/17
to golden-cheetah-users
I realize this is an older post but stumbled on this feed by searching for exactly what you have in your spreadsheet. Are you still willing to share it? If so, thank you!
Shawn
Julian
Mar 30, 2017, 4:47:44 PM3/30/17
to golden-cheetah-users
Logan Moore
Sep 25, 2017, 2:11:15 AM9/25/17
to golden-cheetah-users
Any updates on bringing this feature to life for the next version? Love the features GC has and this would make it the ultimate one-stop shop. The spreadsheet is legit too, but having everything in one place would be killer.
Thank you guys for all you do!
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