Use your CP or FTP in the CP field?

[Brad]

When I first started using GC 14 months ago I entered my FTP number in the CP field because I thought they were the same thing and I was uneducated when it came to CP/FTP. So now a year on I know what CP is all about and how it is different compared to FTP but I'm still entering my FTP number in the CP field and obviously not able to take advantage of the whole W' balance features in GC seeing as though it's all calculated off of your CP, If I start using my CP number in the CP field will it mess up my PMC?

I'm interested to find out what everyone else's setup is. Are you using your CP or your FTP number in the CP field and what do you do about your PMC if you are using your CP, can you still use Coggan CTL/ATL/TSB for your PMC or do you need to use different metrics on your PMC when using CP?

So I'm in two minds about whether to enter my CP estimate into the CP field and take advantage of the really cool W' balance feature or keep using my FTP and not messing up my PMC.

[jomu]

Brad, I am in the same conflicting position.  I went back to using my FTP in the CP field because TSS and PMC seem more important to me, taking granted that W' Bal will be inaccurate.

If I recall correctly, there have been prior discussions in this forum about implementing both, CP and FTP, in a (far?) future update of GC.

[Peter Riegersperger]

It’s here: https://groups.google.com/d/topic/golden-cheetah-users/lmwEVcGrO1k/discussion

It also includes a discussion on what to do with TSS.

Personally, I use CP in GoldenCheetah, but set the Power Zones according to Training and Racing with a Power Meter to be able to use their workout designs.

p

On 07.09.2015, at 14:01, jomu <herzl...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Brad, I am in the same conflicting position.  I went back to using my FTP in the CP field because TSS and PMC seem more important to me, taking granted that W' Bal will be inaccurate.

If I recall correctly, there have been prior discussions in this forum about implementing both, CP and FTP, in a (far?) future update of GC.

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[Brad]

That's why I still use ftp because the pmc and my TSS are also more important to me than my W' and I also base all my workouts off my ftp and design my training around total weekly TSS volume, so if I used CP then it just wouldn't work the way I need it to

[Brad]

So you don't track your training volume by TSS?

[Peter Riegersperger]

On 08.09.2015, at 03:36, Brad <bradley...@gmail.com> wrote:

So you don't track your training volume by TSS?

Yes, I do. I just accept that it underreports compared to using FTP as anchor value. This is my first season with a power meter, so I don’t have any historical data that will get messed up when I use CP instead of FTP.

That's why I still use ftp because the pmc and my TSS are also more important to me than my W' and I also base all my workouts off my ftp and design my training around total weekly TSS volume, so if I used CP then it just wouldn't work the way I need it to

I also base my power zones on FTP, and not on CP. You can do this easily by not using GoldenCheetahs default values but computing them by hand according to Hunter/Coggan. Then you train „by FTP“, and W’bal still works. But TSS will behave differently, and I don’t think there’s a way around it.

p

[Ashley Bernes]

Isnt Bikescore to CP what TSS is to FTP?

[Mario Piccoli]

Yes it is, so you can track your training and still use the CP / W ' model. Unfortunately bike computers like Garmin are based on Coggan model so you have different figures on the bike and at home

[Ale Martinez]

Damien recently added an option for v3.3 (Settings : Add property "Use CP for FTP") which, when disabled, allows to have a separate FTP setting in Power Zones to be used for zone anchoring, IF and TSS. W'bal, RI and BikeScore always use CP, independent of this setting. Default is enabled, just v3.2 behavior.

[Claus Assmann]

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015, Neil Pugh wrote:

[chronological quoting order restored...]

> On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 12:40:47 AM UTC+1, Ale Martinez wrote:

> > Damien recently added an option for v3.3 (Settings : Add property "Use CP
> > for FTP"

> How is this option enabled please?

AFAICT: Tools -> Options, look for a checkbox.

[Andrea Sabba]

Hi Ale,

I've downloaded the v.3.3RC1, this features seems to work differently, when disabled doesn't allow to have separate FTO setting in Power zone and TSS is calculated using CP.

Is it normal?

Andrea

[Neil Pugh]

What I would like is for my TSS on my Train screen to match what my Garmin head unit is reading. On the power zones tab in Athlete options there is a CP box, an FTP box and the tick box for "use CP for FTP", so how do I get what I want as described?

[Mark Liversedge]

On Monday, 16 November 2015 12:57:47 UTC, Neil Pugh wrote:

What I would like is for my TSS on my Train screen to match what my Garmin head unit is reading. On the power zones tab in Athlete options there is a CP box, an FTP box and the tick box for "use CP for FTP", so how do I get what I want as described?

Damien is fixing it. We will have a combo box with two options;

* Use CP for all metrics

* Use FTP for Coggan metrics

When the second option is chosen the FTP input field will be visible, if not it will be hidden.

The only thing  this controls is how metrics like IF/TSS are computed. 

Mark 

[Mark Liversedge]

On Monday, 16 November 2015 13:08:52 UTC, Mark Liversedge wrote:

On Monday, 16 November 2015 12:57:47 UTC, Neil Pugh wrote:

What I would like is for my TSS on my Train screen to match what my Garmin head unit is reading. On the power zones tab in Athlete options there is a CP box, an FTP box and the tick box for "use CP for FTP", so how do I get what I want as described?

One other point worth noting, and I offer this without comment: Coggan is now saying that CP and FTP are equivalent .. "so long as you use longer tests of 3-12 minutes to estimate CP".

Mark

[Nathan Townsend]

On Sunday, 6 September 2015 14:19:22 UTC+3, Brad wrote:

So I'm in two minds about whether to enter my CP estimate into the CP field and take advantage of the really cool W' balance feature or keep using my FTP and not messing up my PMC.

CP for  W'bal model.

FTP for TSS / ATL / CTL etc only if you're actually concerned with comparing your own data with other people. Using CP does not "mess up" the PMC, it just alters the absolute values, which are expressed as arbitrary units anyway.  The important thing is the pattern over time and this will stay pretty much the same either way.

If your primary concern is to monitor your own training load, then CP will do just fine.  Does it really matter if your 3hr Sat ride was 180 arbitrary units versus 150 arbitrary units  or your 40km TT is 100 units versus 80? 

If people want to compare themselves to other cyclists, then there is a great way to do this without even knowing your FTP..... its called racing!

[Nathan Townsend]

Well that is correct actually. But since 1988 the recommended gold standard protocol for estimation of CP has been to conduct 3-5 max effort TTe tests in the range 2-15 min, so it's a totally moot point.  Anyone who follows the gold standard recommendations will generally arrive at the result CP > FTP by about 5-10% on average.

Hey guess what, if I just call an apple an orange instead of an apple, then I can say with absolute certainty... apples and oranges are equivalent. Yeah baby, we're onto something here.... lets code that shit into GC v -22.01 !! 

[Mark Liversedge]

On Monday, 16 November 2015 17:02:32 UTC, Nathan Townsend wrote:

On Sunday, 6 September 2015 14:19:22 UTC+3, Brad wrote:

So I'm in two minds about whether to enter my CP estimate into the CP field and take advantage of the really cool W' balance feature or keep using my FTP and not messing up my PMC.

CP for  W'bal model.

FTP for TSS / ATL / CTL etc only if you're actually concerned with comparing your own data with other people. 

I think the point here is to compare (a) across programs/sites and (b) to apply rules of thumb* regarding discrete values of CTL, TSB etc

Mark 

* TSB > -5 is good, CTL of 100 is good form etc etc