Wahoo no L/R data in raw data

[Markus Derflinger]

Dear all,

I am using the latest snapshot build from GC (17.01.2023).

In the raw data table (after import from my Wahoo Roam V2) is no L/R balance data.

This problem was already discussed:

https://github.com/GoldenCheetah/GoldenCheetah/issues/4067

My question: will this problem be solved in the official 3.6 version?

In 3.5 it runs withour any problem.

Thanks

Markus

[Ale Martinez]

El sábado, 28 de enero de 2023 a la(s) 14:50:51 UTC-3, markusde...@gmail.com escribió:

Dear all,

I am using the latest snapshot build from GC (17.01.2023).

In the raw data table (after import from my Wahoo Roam V2) is no L/R balance data.

This problem was already discussed:

https://github.com/GoldenCheetah/GoldenCheetah/issues/4067

My question: will this problem be solved in the official 3.6 version?

I think it is pretty clear from the discussion you link this is not a GC problem, since you are a Wahoo customer, have you checked with their support if they have an updated firmware fixing the bug in the generation of FIT files for your device? 

[Markus Derflinger]

Hello Ale,

Thanks for feedback!

I fully agree with you, it seems to be a problem in the Wahoo firmware during creation of the fit file.

I will contact Wahoo to correct the problem.

As I am a chemist, can you give me some more details what is not according the file specification?

This woud be helpful I guess.

Thanks

kind regards

Markus

[Markus Derflinger]

I raised a ticket @ Wahoo. Will keep you updated.

If you have some more details please let me know.

Hopefully they Wahoo is willing to solve the isse.

[Ale Martinez]

The non technical and GoldenCheetah independent way to test and report this is to use Garmin Connect: create a user and import a Wahoo generated FIT file, the acid test is L/R Balance showing or not.

Garmin controls the ANT+ specification, BTW.

[Markus Derflinger]

Hi Ale,

Thanks for the feedback.

I tried to verify in Garmin Connect - you are right. No balance data in Garmin Connect available.

In Training Peaks (the same FIT file) is showing balance data.

Lets wait what Wahoo is saying about this problem.

[Markus Derflinger]

Hi Ale,

Wahoo contacted me regarding this problem. I provided some FIT files and screenshots.

Keep you informed

greetings

Markus

[Markus Derflinger]

Hi Ale,

I received the following feeback from Wahoo.

Hello Markus,
 
I have pased these files to the Dev team, though while I wait on an answer from them, here is a screenshot form a non wahoo, third party fit file analysing tool, showing detailed L/R power data present in the .FIT file. It was the same deal for all three files.
 

 
I think this may be an issue on Golden Cheetah's side.
 
I will let you know if I have any updates from the developers.
 
All the best,

I know, that the balance data are in the fit file - with this daa the Wahoo app is calculating the balance.

But where is the problem in detail?

In  Garmin Connect I also have no balance data available.

Do you have something more in detail which I can forward to Wahoo?

Thanks in advance

Markus

[Ale Martinez]

El miércoles, 1 de febrero de 2023 a la(s) 15:50:52 UTC-3, markusde...@gmail.com escribió:

Hi Ale,

I received the following feeback from Wahoo.

Hello Markus,
 
I have pased these files to the Dev team, though while I wait on an answer from them, here is a screenshot form a non wahoo, third party fit file analysing tool, showing detailed L/R power data present in the .FIT file. It was the same deal for all three files.
 

 
I think this may be an issue on Golden Cheetah's side.
 
I will let you know if I have any updates from the developers.
 
All the best,

I know, that the balance data are in the fit file - with this daa the Wahoo app is calculating the balance.

But where is the problem in detail?

In  Garmin Connect I also have no balance data available.

Do you have something more in detail which I can forward to Wahoo?

Details of the issue are in the discussion you linked in your first post... 

[Mark Liversedge]

Just to add weight to Ale's responses- Wahoo are non-compliant with the standard- we are not going to break our FIT support because they are non-compliant.

The answer lies with them, but they are not changing.

This is not about allegiance, emotion, effort or cost, it is about compliance to standards and quality. 

Mark

[Markus Derflinger]

Hi Mark,

I absolutley agree with your point. It is not my wish to correct the problem in GC!

Wahoo should follow the standard!

Again, I am a chemist. I dont know what exactly causes the problem.

I asked for more details which I can forward to Wahoo. Maybe this info can help to solve the problem.

Once I have received a response from the development team, I will let you know.

greetings

Markus

[Ale Martinez]

El jueves, 2 de febrero de 2023 a la(s) 11:58:52 UTC-3, markusde...@gmail.com escribió:

Hi Mark,

I absolutley agree with your point. It is not my wish to correct the problem in GC!

Wahoo should follow the standard!

Again, I am a chemist. I dont know what exactly causes the problem.

I asked for more details which I can forward to Wahoo. Maybe this info can help to solve the problem.

Again, it is in the discussion you linked in your first post, specifically: https://github.com/GoldenCheetah/GoldenCheetah/issues/4067#issuecomment-965052786, including a screen capture of the relevant part of ANT+ Spec.

BTW, I don't know if they are making the same mistake in their Power metering devices s.t. pedals, or only in their head units.

[Markus Derflinger]

Thanks - I will keep you informed about the outcome.

[Markus Derflinger]

Hello Mark, Ale,

I received the follwoing answer from Wahoo:

Hi Markus,

The last update I have is that the Wahoo Founder himself is speaking with the Golden Cheetah devs, though have not had any changes as far as I am aware on the software side of things yet.
 
Let me know if you have any questions.
 
All the best

Are you in contact with the Wahoo founder?

greetings

Markus

[Ale Martinez]

Not me, but I think it is pretty obvious what this means if you read carefully Mark’s message above.

[Mark Liversedge]

My bad- Chip Hawkins sent me an email about this last week and I missed it- will follow up with him.

Thanks

Mark

[Markus Derflinger]

Hi Mark,

do you have any news reg. the discussion with Wahoo?

I heard nothing from Wahoo in the meantime.

greetings

Markus

[Robert McKenzie]

Mark,

I have attached two files that you might like to use for comparative purposes, one is from my Wahoo Elemnt Roam and the other from the IpBike app that I use on my phone which are both from the same ride and if I look at the raw data with a viewer available on the Internet I can see power balance data on both files, but with the Roam when the power is 0 there is no balance information whereas with the other one there appears to be power balance data, so could it be that the lack of power balance data when power is 0 is what is causing the issue, with the reason for the two files being so that you can compare the exact same ride with the only difference being when the "start ride" was pressed and hopefully be able to pick up why one works and the other does not and thus pin down precisely what and where the problem is with the way Wahoo deal with power in fit files.

Regards,
Robert McKenzie.

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[Mark Liversedge]

Hi

Wahoo have confirmed it is a bug and have fixed it in their codebase. Will get on to headunits at their next firmware release..

Mark

[Markus Derflinger]

Hi Mark,

Good news - Thanks

Greetings

Markus

[Guillaume TOFFOLI]

Update: I imported data from wahoo fit files today (using assioma power meter) and all different metrics (l/r balance, torque effiency, etc.) are present now and imported like with garmin files.

[Markus Derflinger]

I am using a Wahoo Roam V2 and SRAM Red with Quarq powermeter. Still the same problem. No data for L/R balance.

Wahoo has not updated the firmware. We have to wait until next firmware update.

keep you informed.

[Guillaume TOFFOLI]

Here are the details of the version of my device I get when I upload the file for your information:

Support Information
ELEMNT v1.64.1 (8748)
iPhone14,5 (v16.1.1)
device: iPhone14,5
language: fr-FR fr_FR
Memory: Free:136822784 Total:2759000064
Storage: Free:23835582464 Total:127866785792
WFFeatureManager feature toggle state:
WFFeatureELEMNTRestoreFromBackup: disabled
WFUnregisterCharsOnTerminate: disabled
WFFeatureLogInGracePeriodUI: disabled
WFFeatureRadarUISideSelection: disabled
WFFeatureWorkoutEditRefactor: disabled
WFFeatureToggleDebugNotifications: disabled
WFFeatureCloudUser: disabled
WFFeatureBTLERouteSync: disabled
WFFeatureRunWalkAnalysis: disabled
WFFeatureBTLEFWU: disabled
WFFeatureToggleWFShowWorkoutSource: disabled
WFFeatureTrackRunningEdit: disabled
WFFeatureOptimize247P2iOS: disabled
WFFeatureOptimize247: disabled
WFSensorFirmwareUpdateV2: disabled
WFFeatureStrydPodUI: disabled
WFFeatureDisableBTLERediscovery: disabled
WFFeatureHealthKitSleepSharing: disabled
WFFeatureCloudStructuredWorkouts: disabled
WFFeatureInAppRouteSharing: disabled
WFFeatureWorkRestTimer: enabled
WFFeatureELEMNTBackup: disabled
WFFeatureBTLEPlanSync: enabled
WFFeatureCloudBasedSharing: disabled
WFFeaturePublicRoutes: disabled
WFFeatureToggleUseCloudForFirmwareUpdate: disabled
WFFeatureCaloriesSummaryUI: disabled
WFFeatureCustomAlerts: disabled
WFFeatureSummitClimbs: disabled
+ ELEMNT BOLT BDE900 (BT) WB15-15784
+ FCR9100P016 (BT) paired to ELEMNT BOLT BDE9
+ TICKR 5A5E (BT) paired to ELEMNT BOLT BDE9
+ KICKR CORE 349B (BT) paired to ELEMNT BOLT BDE9
+ PUISSANCE (ANT+) paired to ELEMNT BOLT BDE9
+ PUISSANCE (ANT+) paired to ELEMNT BOLT BDE9
+ RYTHME CARDIAQUE (BT) paired to ELEMNT BOLT BDE9
+ TICKR 5F65 (BT) paired to ELEMNT BOLT BDE9
+ ASSIOMA43563L (BT) paired to ELEMNT BOLT BDE9
+ ELEMNT RIVAL 5F79B1 (BT) 1.54.31
+ TICKR 5F65 (BT) paired to ELEMNT RIVAL 5F79
+ KICKR CORE 349B (BT) paired to ELEMNT RIVAL 5F79
+ KICKR CORE (BT) paired to ELEMNT BOLT BDE9
+ PUISSANCE (ANT+) paired to ELEMNT RIVAL 5F79
+ PUISSANCE (ANT+) paired to ELEMNT BOLT BDE9
+ RYTHME CARDIAQUE (ANT+) paired to ELEMNT BOLT BDE9

[marcen]

Has the firmware release from 02.05 from Wahoo solved the problem with the L/R balance?

https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/articles/217285397-ELEMNT-Firmware-Release-Notes

Unfortunately not for me. I have an element with Assioma DUO power meter.

[Markus Derflinger]

The problem is still not solved. I was in contact with Wahoo in Germany. They asked in the US but the ydid not received an answer when this problem will be solved.

Wahoo has implemented the new summit free ride feature. This was fore sure a lot of work for the developer. I hope this problem is still on the to do list and will be implemented soon.

[Ale Martinez]

Does this issue also occur when the power meter is connected to the Wahoo head unit via BT or only when using ANT+?

[marcen]

Unfortunately, the Android Wahoo app and the Wahoo Elemnt head unit do not find BT sensors.

[Ale Martinez]

El lunes, 8 de mayo de 2023 a la(s) 16:07:44 UTC-3, marcen escribió:

Unfortunately, the Android Wahoo app and the Wahoo Elemnt head unit do not find BT sensors.

Is that an old model, all current ones seems to support sensors connected via BTLE, according to https://eu.wahoofitness.com/devices/bike-computers 

[Ale Martinez]

The above seems to answer my question: Guillaume reports not having the issue and the Assioma is connected to Element Bold via BT.

[Ale Martinez]

Bolt, not Bold... 

Markus (OP), can you check this? 

[Markus Derflinger]

I checked my Wahoo Roam V2. The Powermeter is connected via ANT+.

[Ale Martinez]

According to https://www.dcrainmaker.com Wahoo supports BTLE sensors from the original Elemnt model.

[Tim Sinclair]

Purely in respect of this " Unfortunately, the Android Wahoo app and the Wahoo Elemnt head unit do not find BT sensors."

Please check through the details in this link : https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000381084-How-to-Pair-Sensors-to-my-ELEMNT-BOLT-or-ROAM :-)

The BOLT supports the following types of sensors:

ANT+ Heart Rate sensor
ANT+ Speed-only sensor
ANT+ Cadence-only Sensor
ANT+ Speed/Cadence Combo Sensor
ANT+ Power Meter
Bluetooth Smart Heart Rate sensor
Bluetooth Smart Speed-only sensor
Bluetooth Smart Cadence-only Sensor
Bluetooth Smart Speed/Cadence Combo Sensor
Bluetooth Smart Power Meter
Shimano Di2 System (via private-ANT)
SRAM RED eTAP System (via ANT+ Gear Shifting Profile)
BSX & Moxy Muscle Oxygenation sensors (via ANT+ Muscle Oxygen Profile)
Wahoo KICKR/KICKR SNAP Trainers

That BOTH the head unit AND the App fail to find the BT sensors is very strange.

If both the BOLT & ELEMNT Companion App are up to date then if you wish, you can report the problem directly to Wahoo Support :-)

It may also be worth contacting the manufacturer of the BT sensors to see if there are any known compatibility issues :-) 4iiii for instance used to have a problem with L/R balance issues when coasting.

https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

Telephone support is available in the US and UK :-)

Customer Support

United States of America

+1 (877) 978-1112

M-F 9 a.m. - 5 p.m. ET

United Kingdom

+44 800 808 5773

M-F 2 p.m. - 10 p.m. GMT

[marcen]

Thank you very much for the help.

Even with the instructions from Wahoo, I could not add Bluetooth sensors.
Unfortunately, I can't say what the reason is that my Wahoo Element can't find Bluetooth sensors. Resetting to factory settings didn't help either.
According to https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/03/wahoo-elemnt-gps-bike-computer-in-depth-review.html Bluetooth should work for power meters.

Maybe Wahoo support knows what is going on.

[Ale Martinez]

El sábado, 6 de mayo de 2023 a la(s) 09:01:04 UTC-3, marcen escribió:

Has the firmware release from 02.05 from Wahoo solved the problem with the L/R balance?

https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/articles/217285397-ELEMNT-Firmware-Release-Notes

Unfortunately not for me. I have an element with Assioma DUO power meter.

What about the last 02.06 firmware release? 

[Markus Derflinger]

With the firmware from 02.06.2023 the problem is still existing.

Today, 20.06.2023 a new firmware was released - this should fix the problem according the changelog:

• Fixed: FIT file does not contain L/R bit for balance data with certain power meters

I will test tomorrow and let you know

Greetings

Markus

[marcen]

Good news from my side.
With the firmware version WF48-16044 from 20.06 the L/R balance in GC is displayed again.

Setup
First element device with firmware version WF48-16044
Assioma DUO power meter with firmware version 4.80
GC buikd date: Jun 3 2023 12:42:36, Build i: 4013

[Markus Derflinger]

The problem is solved, L/R Balance is now available in GC (Snapshot from 03.06.2023)

Wahoo Roam V2, Firmware WC35-16044 from 20.06.2023

SRAM RED AXS Powermeter (Quarq, MODEL ID: PM-RED-D1)

[Robert McKenzie]

That should also now apply to the Roam V1 as well with a firmware update for that unit being released on the 20th just gone.

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