Rowing analysis

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Joss Winn

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Nov 26, 2022, 4:36:59 PM11/26/22
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I’ve recently taken up indoor and outdoor rowing and would like to hear how Rowers here use GC. I’ve searched the mailing list and read the few conversations over the years. I know that Rowing was added as a Sport to GC in May 2021 and that the Pace_Row metric is available.   

I’ve searched for charts to download but except for one that Mark created (stroke rate vs power), there doesn’t seem to be anything else. Can anyone share anything useful? I’m currently using data from a Garmin 255 watch and ErgData, merged when indoors. I’m limited to the Garmin outdoors and a PM3 monitor with ErgData indoors at the gym. I realise that better data collection would result in better analysis. What do Rowers here use?

The most advanced examples of rowing data analysis I've found are on the 'rowsandall' website. The guy who runs the site offers a web-based version of the kind of thing GC users are interested in. For example:







Thanks.
Joss

Ale Martinez

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Nov 28, 2022, 9:09:34 AM11/28/22
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El sábado, 26 de noviembre de 2022 a la(s) 18:36:59 UTC-3, jo...@josswinn.org escribió:
I’ve recently taken up indoor and outdoor rowing and would like to hear how Rowers here use GC. I’ve searched the mailing list and read the few conversations over the years. I know that Rowing was added as a Sport to GC in May 2021 and that the Pace_Row metric is available.   

I’ve searched for charts to download but except for one that Mark created (stroke rate vs power), there doesn’t seem to be anything else. Can anyone share anything useful? I’m currently using data from a Garmin 255 watch and ErgData, merged when indoors. I’m limited to the Garmin outdoors and a PM3 monitor with ErgData indoors at the gym. I realise that better data collection would result in better analysis. What do Rowers here use?

I am not a rower, nor did I get any feedback from rowers when implemented zones and pace from rowing, but Ergdata fit files seems to import correctly provided you have Garmin Smart Recording enabled in settings according to https://groups.google.com/g/golden-cheetah-users/c/zwy8QlRw3Vg/m/9ipLeTcoCAAJ
 

From a quick look it seems you can get similar info from standard GC charts for cycling, if you think of Cadence as Stroke Rate

Joss Winn

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Dec 2, 2022, 5:00:39 AM12/2/22
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On 28 Nov 2022, at 14:09, Ale Martinez <amtri...@gmail.com> wrote:



I’ve searched for charts to download but except for one that Mark created (stroke rate vs power), there doesn’t seem to be anything else. Can anyone share anything useful? I’m currently using data from a Garmin 255 watch and ErgData, merged when indoors. I’m limited to the Garmin outdoors and a PM3 monitor with ErgData indoors at the gym. I realise that better data collection would result in better analysis. What do Rowers here use?

I am not a rower, nor did I get any feedback from rowers when implemented zones and pace from rowing, but Ergdata fit files seems to import correctly provided you have Garmin Smart Recording enabled in settings according to https://groups.google.com/g/golden-cheetah-users/c/zwy8QlRw3Vg/m/9ipLeTcoCAAJ
 

Having HR and Power zones is useful. I don’t see Pace zones in athlete settings, but I don’t think that is used very often in rowing. 

One issue I have with ErgData is that it doesn’t record the rest periods in my workout. For example, I’m following a Training Peaks plan, which I follow via my Garmin watch, which records the rest periods. I also record cadence, HR, and Power via a tablet connected to the Concept 2 PM3 monitor, which exports to ErgData. I then download the ErgData FIT file and combine it with the Garmin FIT file in GC, but the two don’t line up because of the missing rest periods in the ErgData. Is there a way for GC to add the rest periods when merging it with the Garmin FIT file?

This wouldn’t be an issue if I had access to a PM5 monitor, as I could connect my watch via BT and record everything from the PM5, but neither my local gym nor rowing club have PM5 monitors on the Ergs, so if I want to collect Power data in addition to the Garmin data (Training load, EPOC, respiration rate, recovery time, etc.) then I have to combine the two files. 


From a quick look it seems you can get similar info from standard GC charts for cycling, if you think of Cadence as Stroke Rate


Yes, thanks. I’ve downloaded some scatter and box plot charts that work well. 

Cheers
Joss

Ale Martinez

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Dec 2, 2022, 7:15:25 AM12/2/22
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El viernes, 2 de diciembre de 2022 a la(s) 07:00:39 UTC-3, jo...@josswinn.org escribió:

On 28 Nov 2022, at 14:09, Ale Martinez <amtri...@gmail.com> wrote:



I’ve searched for charts to download but except for one that Mark created (stroke rate vs power), there doesn’t seem to be anything else. Can anyone share anything useful? I’m currently using data from a Garmin 255 watch and ErgData, merged when indoors. I’m limited to the Garmin outdoors and a PM3 monitor with ErgData indoors at the gym. I realise that better data collection would result in better analysis. What do Rowers here use?

I am not a rower, nor did I get any feedback from rowers when implemented zones and pace from rowing, but Ergdata fit files seems to import correctly provided you have Garmin Smart Recording enabled in settings according to https://groups.google.com/g/golden-cheetah-users/c/zwy8QlRw3Vg/m/9ipLeTcoCAAJ
 

Having HR and Power zones is useful. I don’t see Pace zones in athlete settings, but I don’t think that is used very often in rowing. 

 
One issue I have with ErgData is that it doesn’t record the rest periods in my workout. For example, I’m following a Training Peaks plan, which I follow via my Garmin watch, which records the rest periods. I also record cadence, HR, and Power via a tablet connected to the Concept 2 PM3 monitor, which exports to ErgData. I then download the ErgData FIT file and combine it with the Garmin FIT file in GC, but the two don’t line up because of the missing rest periods in the ErgData. Is there a way for GC to add the rest periods when merging it with the Garmin FIT file?

Merge can align using different criteria, but for the whole workout, you would need to add the pauses before merging using https://github.com/GoldenCheetah/GoldenCheetah/wiki/UG_ChartTypes_Activities#editor or https://github.com/GoldenCheetah/GoldenCheetah/wiki/UG_Special-Topics_Custom-Data-Processors-in-Python

Joss Winn

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Dec 2, 2022, 9:34:33 AM12/2/22
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On 2 Dec 2022, at 12:15, Ale Martinez <amtri...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Having HR and Power zones is useful. I don’t see Pace zones in athlete settings, but I don’t think that is used very often in rowing. 

 

Yes, I saw that and thought about whether pace zones would be useful. On the boat, pace (like trail running) can be affected by environmental conditions (wind, water speed). On the Erg, it could be useful if you follow a plan that refers to % intensity of min/500m, such as the influential Wolverine Plan:  https://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/training/Training_WolverinePlan.pdf

L1: 95-105% of 2K pace
L2: 90-95% of 2K pace
L3: 85-90% of 2K pace
L4: 80-90% of 2K pace

However, HR zones, a specific pace, and cadence seem to be the usual way of directing training. Power is hard to measure on outdoor rowing and although power data is easily available indoors, the Training Peaks plan I am using, and other popular training plans (e.g. https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/the-pete-plan/  and https://www.britishrowing.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/BR_Go_Row_A4_Beginners_Training_Plan_P3-5.pdf ) refer to HR intensity or trying to hold a specific pace range but not zone.

In short, if it’s not too much trouble, pace zones in GC might be useful to some people but specific reference to pace zones does not seem to be common in row training.

What would be useful for analysis in GC is a max row pace metric and to be able to find intervals for rowing pace.

Thanks
Joss

Ale Martinez

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Dec 2, 2022, 10:58:03 AM12/2/22
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Neither in Running, zones are typically used for post facto analysis, it its not that hard but v3.6 is frozen now, may be in the future.
 
What would be useful for analysis in GC is a max row pace metric and to be able to find intervals for rowing pace.


For intervals you can use find by speed (or pace) and, to add Rowing Pace to Favourites Metrics to show pace in rowing units.  

Joss Winn

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Dec 3, 2022, 4:06:25 PM12/3/22
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On 2 Dec 2022, at 15:58, Ale Martinez <amtri...@gmail.com> wrote:

What would be useful for analysis in GC is a max row pace metric and to be able to find intervals for rowing pace.


For intervals you can use find by speed (or pace) and, to add Rowing Pace to Favourites Metrics to show pace in rowing units.  

Thanks. By trial and error, I created a max rowing pace metric (attached). If there’s a better way of calculating it, please let me know.

Screenshot 2022-12-03 at 21.03.43.png

Ale Martinez

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Dec 3, 2022, 4:24:35 PM12/3/22
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It looks right for me, may be you can add: and Data contains “S” to relevant or check the max > 0 before inversion in value, just in case…
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