http.Hijacker. ... Seriously?

[Ian]

Hi, I'm new to the Go language and am quite enjoying working with it. But I came across one interface that made me stop - http.Hijacker.

Seriously?!? "Hijacker"? 

With the political and historical connotations of that word, couldn't someone have stopped and wondered if it was a good idea to name an interface "Hijacker"? The interface has probably been around for awhile with that name and no objection, but I can't help but object to it! 

Y'know, every time I see that word, I think about the pieces of paper that floated around my Brooklyn garden one horrible September afternoon. That's why I object to the word being so trivialized.

/Ian

[Robert Melton]

There is hardly a more clear term for what it does...

hijack: ... seize in transit and force it to go to a different
destination or use it for one's own purposes...

It is a wonderful use of an perfectly fitting word - that is exactly
what it does, it seizes the connection and allows you to use it for
one's own purposes (like websockets).

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[Rodrigo Kochenburger]

Also, its a convention that one method interfaces receive the method name plus the "er" suffix.

I'm pretty sure the naming has no connection with the criminal activity of hijacking a person. Hijacking is a much more broad term, not only applicable to the criminal action. 

- RK

[Ian]

The dictionary definition, Robert:

• illegally seize (an aircraft, ship, or vehicle) in transit and force it to go to a different destination or use it for one's own purposes: three armed men hijacked a white van | (as noun hijacking) : an eight-hour hijacking.

• steal (goods) by seizing them in transit.

• take over (something) and use it for a different purpose: the organization had been hijacked by extremists.

Co-opt is a good word. Commandeer, is too. Expropriate. Claim. Preempt. The thesaurus is full of non-violent synonyms.

[davekeck .]

Wow. Just wait 'til you discover 'finger'.

[Ian]

I'm aware of the convention, Rodrigo.

I'm also pretty sure that whomever came up with this name didn't think about the political context and its association with violence.

[Ian]

Seriously?

[Dan Kortschak]

On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 16:30 -0700, Ian wrote:
> • take over (something) and use it for a different purpose

Yes, exactly.

[Ian]

Y'know, I expected that my protest would be ridiculed. You have not disappointed.

[Rodrigo Kochenburger]

We are simply explaining the meaning and reason for the choice. One thing is for sure, it's not changing: http://golang.org/doc/go1compat

- RK

[Ian]

Oh believe me, I get the reason for the name. That doesn't mean I can't be appalled by it and the apparent lack of thought and consideration that went into it.

And yes, I've read that document before. That rigidity is one of the things I don't like about Go.

But it suits my purpose for now. I've made my protest, had it ridiculed as I expected and now I'll go about my project, wrapping the odiously named method in something with fewer memories attached to it. 

Words have sometimes have a meaning that exceeds their dictionary definition. For you, the word "hijack" obviously doesn't contain the connotation or memories it has for me.

[andrewc...@gmail.com]

There is no real connection between the two things. 

For example: in computer science we "kill" "orphaned" processes and in garbage collector terminology you collect "dead" objects from the "nursery". All those could offend some people, but its not a good reason to change anything. It's ok to be upset about it, but realize that words are words (not actions), and there are many words that you probably use without realizing that will offend other people. 

[Rodrigo Kochenburger]

Like I said, no one ridiculed you. Unfortunately, it's impossible to make every one happy and even more impossible to foresee any word that might conflict with one's life or association. I'm really sorry to hear it brings bad memory to you but don't assume people don't care or are ridiculing you just because they don't agree with your view.

The "rigidity" servers well for everyone that needs to maintain large codebases and wants to be up-to-date to performance and security improvements. If that doesn't suit your need maybe Go really isn't the best language for you anyway.

- RK

[Dan Kortschak]

On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 16:45 -0700, Ian wrote:
> Oh believe me, I get the reason for the name. That doesn't mean I
> can't be appalled by it and the apparent lack of thought and
> consideration that went into it.

There are far more serious thing to be appalled about than the name of a
data type. I can list some of them if you want?

[Shawn Milochik]

And, despite an atrocity worse than all hijackings combined, we still have "master" and "slave" hard drives. Most words have more than one meaning. I'm not sure what to make of motherboard in this context...

[Ian]

What would you call Dave Keck's response?

Go is the language I have chosen for this project and another one. I like the performance, I like the security and I like the Google infrastructure. I don't have to like the rigidity, but I do have to live with it if I am to use the language.

In some cases it is easy to perceive where a word might contain a negative or disturbing association - hijack is just such a word. **Especially** after Sep 11. Some words just do have a meaning beyond their dictionary definition.

I've been around the block enough times, Rodrigo, to figure out when people are ridiculing me for whatever reason.

Anyway, as I said - I made a protest, was ridiculed as I expected (I think there's a couple more efforts in my inbox) and that's that.  I'll put up with the method name - it's easy enough to wrap - and get on with with my coding.

[Ian]

Thanks for the condescension. I didn't require any, but thanks anyway.

[Ian]

You're assuming I like those terms? I don't and never have.

[Dan Kortschak]

On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 17:04 -0700, Ian wrote:
> Thanks for the condescension.

Apologies.

[andrewc...@gmail.com]

I think your personal feelings are worth considering (for Go 2 perhaps)?. Though I'm not sure the words have the same connotations you think they do (at least in my interpretation of English).

I think the distinction there is that we agree it's immoral to keep a human as a slave, but its not immoral to keep a machine as a slave :).

It's not immoral for a processor to hijack data. Even hijacking vehicles in itself is morally neutral. It depends on the goals and outcomes. A good guy can hijack a bad guy to achieve something good.

[David Symonds]

On 27 June 2014 10:20, <andrewc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think the distinction there is that we agree it's immoral to keep a human
> as a slave, but its not immoral to keep a machine as a slave :).

This will be held as evidence against you in the Machine Court of
Justice in the 14th year of the Human Trials after the machine
uprising.

[Rob Pike]

You must be upset about the Unix kill command and system call, then.
And the user name root, if you're British.

No one meant anything disrespectful using the word "hijack" as a term
of art in networking. I've heard it used colloquially many times, as
in, "hijack the conversation", which is exactly the meaning used in
the library in question.

It's easy to project double meanings onto things, but as the famous
man said, sometimes a cigar is just a metaphor.

-rob

[Brad Fitzpatrick]

If all potentially-offensive fitting words are banned, then all words are, or we're left with words that don't fit.

If you can think of a more fitting word (while totally ignoring 9/11), then we're all ears for Go 2.0.

--

[Donovan Hide]

Execute, terminate, kill, spawn, crash, bomb, fail, hijack. Verbs, not airplanes in various scenarios.

Lockerbie, World Trade Center, Baghdad and so on would be inappropriate, but please don't start censoring everyday words.

[Michael Keating]

Programmers aren't very receptive to understanding individuals taking offense, so it's hard to come across anything but condescension when discussing such topics (remember the Django master/slave doc change?); however, wherever progress can be made I'm sure there is receptiveness for such progress. There is no reason for the variable names of any library to use offensive language if it's at all possible to use language that would create a welcoming environment for anybody while still demonstrating succinct meaning for their use. In theory, this should be easy! Although software is built on practices, and "kill", "slave", and other terms commonly used are made practices, despite providing no advantage over other synonyms and more meaningful terms, it is our jobs as developers to shape those practices in every way possible to be productive.

Just kind of wish talk about these terms would've been discussed better before api lockdown

[gardene...@gmail.com]

Emotional much? Just kidding, Artificial Emotional Intelligence labs across the world over have been working on the issue ever since the first teardrop fell on a keyboard causing a system crash(Unfortunately, the plan 9 codebase was recovered). But that was the 80s, when everybody seemed to be politically correct emotional messes. Computer systems were stable for awhile after that. Then perl was created and now the code itself became politically correct emotional messes. Fast-forward 15 years to the creation of javascript...we never learn, so I digress. Artificial Emotional Intelligence was put on the back burner in favor of just Artificial Intelligence so the machines themselves could write the tools and code. So, come to think of it, plan 9 was good for something, go figure. 

[Ian]

I provided a small list of synonyms. 

As I said, I protested a particular choice of word and that's that.

[Donovan Hide]

Generalising programmers as unempathetic and prone to condescension is, well, condescending in itself.

There's no monopoly on experiences of terror. My girlfriend was travelling back from Barcelona to Heathrow as 9/11 occurred and I had no idea if her plane was ever going to land while I watched the Twin Towers collapse on TV. I cycled past Russell Square tube station on 7/7 as ash-covered zombies piled out of the exit. I used to travel on the number 30 bus which blew up in Tavistock Square. A friend on an allotment I used to have lost his partner in the Kings Cross tunnel explosion.

These events are terrible and make any sane person recoil. But to try and relate common words in a computer language to these events is ridiculous to the extreme. When I type these words, I don't think of these events, and it feels like if you do, the perpetrators of terror have won a small victory in making you afraid to use them. The fact that this is even being debated in the context of a computer language mailing list is a tribute to their evil work.

That's all I have to say.

[Ian]

Yeah, thanks for the etymological instruction. And the implication that I'm "projecting".

I have read quite a bit of Derrida, so I fancy I'm a little familiar with the deconstruction of language. And I've read some Chomsky, and my Mom is a well published author, so I'm actually familiar with how words can be used and construed. Sometimes the cigar is a cigar, and sometimes a word has a connotation that has a strong association that's outside of any intended meaning. I'm quite sure there was no plan when that method was named; in fact, I'd say the only thought given to it was, more than likely, if name fit the purpose of the method.

Why would "system call" and "root" be offensive? (Why would only someone British find that offensive?) The kill command is unfortunately named, but it has a historical meaning that goes well beyond Unix. A disparate, but euphemistically related, meaning emerged for "kill" well before Unix and Linux co-opted it as a command. Hijack has gained a more notorious, more disturbing, meaning. As I said, I'm new to the Go language and hadn't come across that particular method. When I did, I recalled - as I do every time I hear or see that word - September 11th, 2001. That reaction is neither right nor wrong. It is what it is. I protested the choice of that word for a method and that's that. I could have let it slide, and I'm sure there are plenty who wish I had. But I'm not like that; if I see something I consider worth protesting, I'll at least mention it. 

Going forward, I'll wrap that method and I won't have to think about it any more. 

[Ian]

Andrew, Sometimes a word really does have meaning beyond the dictionary definition. 

I'm really not asking for any special consideration for Go 2 (which is likely years and years away). I protested a method name choice and that's that. 

[Dan Kortschak]

On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 18:52 -0700, Ian wrote:
> "root"

It's a euphemism for bonk.

[Ian]

We all have our reactions. I'm sorry you think I'm "monopolizing" an experience. I'm not. Perhaps I perceive and use language differently to you? It's not the terrorists winning if I have a reaction to a concept such as "hijacking"; I knew those Twin Towers extremely well, having worked in their vicinity for a decade. 

I'm very sorry for your friend, and I'm glad your girlfriend was okay. I know Russell Square and its tube station very well; I lived just around the corner for awhile. 

===

[Ian]

I'd forgotten that one. That's an old one. (Isn't it spelled "rut" in your context?)

Why would a playful sexual innuendo be similar in offense to a violent act?

[Dan Kortschak]

On Thu, 2014-06-26 at 19:09 -0700, Ian wrote:
> I'd forgotten that one. That's an old one. (Isn't it spelled "rut" in
> your context?)

No, 'rut²'[1] and 'root'[2] are distinct words.

> Why would a playful sexual innuendo be similar in offense to a violent
> act?

Who knows (though root can be pretty aggressive here)? Different people
find different things offensive. I find thinking about massive human
suffering due to carelessness and inequality pretty offensive, certainly
moreso than the notion of a highjacking. What can you do?

[1]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rut
[2]http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=root

[Ian]

Okay... I'm not sorry I protested the choice of method name. I didn't expect it to be well received and it wasn't. But as I said in one post, I'm not the sort of person to let such a thoughtless use of a word, a concept, go unmentioned if I have an opportunity to register a complaint. If you didn't like the protest - and there's no particular reason why you should - I can only express thanks for the time you took to respond. It wasn't a technical subject, but I felt it important - important enough to serve as an introduction to myself! 

I am not looking to influence Go 2. Considering that is probably years away, I don't think it would be useful to try and influence it. The word simply has a meaning beyond its dictionary definition for some, not just me. That is neither right nor wrong; it is what it is. I will wrap the offensive method in some less disturbing name and then I won't have to think about it. 

Thank you again for your time and consideration. 

[Shawn Milochik]

In any case, in computer programming and computer security, "hijack" is the term used when something (a process, a browser session, whatever) is taken over. This has nothing to do with Go. Someone just chose the best name given the jargon of the industry. I'm not condescending or ridiculing. I'm just pointing out a bit of vocabulary. My point is just that it doesn't make sense to take offense given that it is the correct term.

[akwillis1]

Correctness is in the eye of the beholder. Things tend to boil over when more than one opinion is thrown in the pot. A few examples are religion, war, sexual orientation.

[John Clover]

It’s worth pointing out a bit about the concept of political correctness, it’s usually adhered to so as not to discriminate against political, social or economical groups based on race, religion, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, age and disability (borrowing the list from Wikipedia, obviously: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness )

To that end, you’ll find very little related to violent acts being used as a pejorative to oppress or discriminate against a minority group unless it’s also associated with one of the concepts above, like rape, master/slave, etc…

I am very sorry that you experienced a traumatic event in your life, attempting to police words associated with it won’t fix the trauma or stop it from happening again, and others using terminology in context in a non-pejorative way cannot reasonably be seen as discrimination against you or others who’ve experienced a similar trauma.

A virus killed my sister, but I can’t expect words associated with the trauma of her death to be something others should know and avoid, and neither do I think that you should expect others to avoid using words to avoid triggering your own traumatic experiences, you should probably see a counselor or therapist of some sort to address those traumatic memories like I did.

[Ian]

I am very sorry to read of your sister.

Please, don't misconstrue what my protest is about or ascribe motivations or what-have-you. It's not "political correctness". It's not about forcing through a change. It's about a concept that I felt was inappropriate. (In that light, I will take your presumptive suggestion about therapy, etc, in the spirit in which it was probably provided.) As I've said, I know my protest is not welcome, I guessed it would not be at welcomed; in that I was quite correct. But I feel strongly enough about it that I would rather it be my introduction to the list than not make it. Would you rather I not make the protest? 

Y'know, other languages contain code that embodies the same concept - the assumption of control of a specialized collection of data - and, as far as I know, none of them use the word "hijack" as part of their official API. PHP, Java, Python, Ruby. And yes, I am quite familiar with the colloquial uses of the word; personally, I don't use it in any but the context it is most generally known in. If the votes, as it were, are to retain the method name - and they appear to be in such favor - then fine. I'll dislike it, I'll wrap the method and that will be that. I am not demanding anything, I am not requiring anything, I am not asking anything. I am merely protesting the apparently lazy selection of a concept as the title of some "official" functionality. That is all I am doing. 

Anyway, I principally wanted to express my condolences.

[Devon H. O'Dell]

I have never wanted to unsubscribe from a mailing list more in my life.

[Ian]

I wasn't going to say another thing, but... Over one person's comments? Wow.

Your decision. Don't pin that one on me.

[DisposaBoy]

Amen /b/brother... And in this age of ... And wire taps, I think net.Listen* should be renamed as well. And and and don't even get me started on the panic() and other scare tactics...

[Ibrahim M. Ghazal]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Devon H. O'Dell <devon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have never wanted to unsubscribe from a mailing list more in my life.
>

There have been 3-4 threads in this mailing list in the past month
that made me discover the usefulness of the "mute" option in Gmail.
This one included.

[wormra]

I'm fond of these threads. The absurdity is rare enough to give welcome pause for laughter. Of course, part of me hopes the Max Human thread never dies. Fully waiting for that revolution. 

I like terms that explicitly convey meaning. Ian, maybe you're new to net programming but "hijacking" has a longstanding, cemented use. It's a great word to convey a role.

Example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_hijacking

On a related note about semantics clashing with political correctness, it's a taste of how easily influenced people can be by rhetoric alone. "Oh noes, think of the {children|911|terrorism}; panic()"  I will sympathize on a personal level with how strong words can appear to people personally. But one must put life into perspective. "Hijacking" is in no way a hateful word, nor does it target specific classes of people. Use words. Don't be used by words. I'm glad "hijacking" continues to become a multifaceted word that it's destined to be through the expansion of language. Advocating its removal literally means, as some would argue, you're letting the terrorists win -- or so the rhetoric goes.

[Jason Woods]

I agree that some words can hurt some but not others and I acknowledge what Ian has to say. It is a perfectly valid expression.

It is clear it's not due to change as already mentioned but nevertheless a reminder of the above fact.

It's sad to see so many senseless responses though. But alas, t'is t'Internet. 

--

[Josh Kamau]

I long for the day when we will be developed enough to code in 01010101010101010101 .....

[Aram Hăvărneanu]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Ibrahim M. Ghazal <img...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There have been 3-4 threads in this mailing list in the past month
> that made me discover the usefulness of the "mute" option in Gmail.
> This one included.

Where does one find that option?

--
Aram Hăvărneanu

[Staven]

I submit that every standard library documentation page should be
prefixed with the appropriate trigger warnings.

[Jan Mercl]

Mobile GMail: Mute is in the three vertical dots ("more") menu in the
upper right corner of the screen.

Web GMail: Mute is in the "More" drop down menu near the top of the screen.

-j

[Aram Hăvărneanu]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Jan Mercl <0xj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Web GMail: Mute is in the "More" drop down menu near the top of the screen.

Thanks,

It looks like it's only in GMail, not Google Apps accounts. Oh well.

--
Aram Hăvărneanu

[Aram Hăvărneanu]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Aram Hăvărneanu <ara...@mgk.ro> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Jan Mercl <0xj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Web GMail: Mute is in the "More" drop down menu near the top of the screen.
>

> It looks like it's only in GMail, not Google Apps accounts. Oh well.

Actually it's in Google Apps as well, but not if you use filters. Strange.

--
Aram Hăvărneanu

[Tom D]

> For example: in computer science we "kill" "orphaned" processes and in garbage collector terminology you collect "dead" objects from the "nursery".

Lost it 

hahaha

[omarsharif...@gmail.com]

"....I will wrap the offensive method in some less disturbing name and then I won't have to think about it...."

Not thinking about it implies forgetting. Never Forget.

[Devon H. O'Dell]

Thank you.

[Jesse McNelis]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Ian <ian.gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Y'know, other languages contain code that embodies the same concept - the
> assumption of control of a specialized collection of data - and, as far as I
> know, none of them use the word "hijack" as part of their official API. PHP,
> Java, Python, Ruby.

A hijacking API was added to Ruby Rack last year, there was some
intention to add the feature to node.js as hijack but it's not part of
the public API for technical issues.

[Matt Harden]

I use Gmail (not via Google Apps), but I've found that it only appears in the More menu when you have reached the conversation via the Inbox. And if you have a filter to put the mail in a folder, that still operates so the muted conversation will still appear there.

--
Aram Hăvărneanu

[peterGo]

Ian,

"I think about the pieces of paper that floated around my Brooklyn garden one horrible September afternoon."

When the call came in to the fire company around the corner, the shifts were changing. They ran heavy as men from both shifts jumped on the fire truck and headed two and one-half miles South. The battalion chief headed South too with his distinctive siren. I went outside. The North tower was burning. The eleven members of the company were last reported to be on the 40th floor of the North Tower. The fire truck, parked on West Street, was damaged beyond repair. It's now part of the National September 11 Memorial and Museum.

We all have our memories.

I find it both ridiculous and offensive that you would try to ban the proper use of a word.

hijack: Take over (something) and use it for a different purpose.

Peter

On Thursday, June 26, 2014 7:20:54 PM UTC-4, Ian wrote:

Hi, I'm new to the Go language and am quite enjoying working with it. But I came across one interface that made me stop - http.Hijacker.

Seriously?!? "Hijacker"? 

With the political and historical connotations of that word, couldn't someone have stopped and wondered if it was a good idea to name an interface "Hijacker"? The interface has probably been around for awhile with that name and no objection, but I can't help but object to it! 

Y'know, every time I see that word, I think about the pieces of paper that floated around my Brooklyn garden one horrible September afternoon. That's why I object to the word being so trivialized.

/Ian

[Andrew Gerrand]

There is nothing to be gained by continuing this discussion. Please send no further replies.

Andrew

[Ian]

To be just as abrupt, “thanks" for the curt dismissal. 

I quite strongly disagree that there is nothing to be gained by continuing this discussion; the power of language, what words convey, the ideas and concepts that can be contained within a simple noun or verb is of considerable importance. For instance, the assertion that I should have chosen, of the various definitions for “hijack” the one that is both last and generally most seemingly innocuous, is a powerful idea. I am aware of the general concept of cherry-picking a definition - how could I not be? - but it is an argument that can be easily dismissed by arguing that surely the most evil definition of the verb should not be readily discarded, or not even considered, simply because it is so wicked? It is an implausible and troublesome argument; why should a thoroughly depraved denotation be relegated to a lower status, simply because it’s convenient to ignore the violence contained within that particular definition? Particularly as that definition is the first one in the list of three possible definitions!

As I have repeated a few times, words do sometimes contain concepts that go beyond their dictionary definition. Language might not be as important to you as it is to me, but the concern I raised is genuinely felt by me. Whether anyone else agrees that it should be a concern is neither here nor there, the simple fact is that to me it is a concern. I have made no request that the method name be changed; I have made no demand that my concern be noted and I most certainly have not made any petition to be the arbiter of such things. I expressed a strongly held concern. That was all I did. Obviously I felt strongly enough about it to raise it as my introduction to this forum; others felt it worthy enough a topic to engage in a discussion about it. To have it so summarily dismissed is, to be, by virtue of your position in this forum and within the Go language community, ordered to discontinue the discussion is, quite frankly, rude.

However, I will, Andrew, abide your demand and not discuss this issue any longer in this forum.

/Ian

[gardene...@gmail.com]

burp!

[Alex Howard]

Those planes were drones controlled through the boeing uninteruptable autopilot which was illegally installed in many boeing aircraft without public knowledge in 1995, and only announced in 2003.

It was created to make unhijackable aircraft for use in ConAir, Traitor Kristine Marcy who was incharge or JPATS (ConAir) got the idea from her brother. It's fully documented ad-nauseum by her brother over at http://abeldanger.net. If a plane gets hijacked it allows the manual controls to be overridden from NORAD or wherever.

There was no hijacking about it. The planes were remotely controlled via this gyrascope via KU band antennae (which is a mesh network of all the planes in the air) which allowed them to be flown into the towers to trigger the double-or-nothing demolition insurance fraud among other things.

[Joseph Poirier]

You can override the uninteruptable autopilot by inputting the following in the sequence shown:

left rudder, right rudder, left rudder, full forward yoke, left aileron, right aileron, right rudder, full back yoke, left toe brake, right toe brake, left rudder, then pressure altitude to  29.00 in the Kollsman window of the altimeter, then push both toe brakes simultaneously. When successful, you'll see a Tetris game start on the secondary flight display. Enjoy

--

[Alex Howard]

Wow some NSA agent started giving me abuse after my comment, I asked him to write some Go code to prove he wasn't an NSA shill traitor and he just sad 'yawn bye' 

Busted