Italian translation of tour.golang.org.

[Alessandro Baffa]

Hi,

I just completed the translation of the Go Tour in Italian and I have deployed it at this url: http://go-tour-ita.appspot.com/ . Unfortunately, the app-id "go-tour-it" is not available, so I used "ita" (three instead of two characters, sorry). 

Is there anyone (Italian I guess) who may want to review it?

Thanks a lot!

Alessandro

[Manlio Perillo]

The accents are incorrect: "é" should be "è", "puó" should be "può".

I'll continue to read it tomorrow.

Regards  Manlio

[Alessandro Baffa]

I fixed the accents you mentioned.

I will wait for the rest of the review tomorrow.

Thank you for your time, Manlio!

[Lucio]

My Italian is pretty rusty and old-fashioned, but I'm happy to refresh what I can :-)

Could you (would you?) consider using italics for words, like "slide", that are foreign to Italian?  As an English speaker, I have to switch from phonetic Italian pronunciation to the English one and it takes a little extra effort without a visual hint.

I'd appreciate that :-)

Lucio.

[Alessandro Baffa]

Hi Lucio,

good point. I didn't translate all the keywords, i.e. slice or switch, because they are used also in Italian (in the context of programming) and also because I think it's better to memorize them with their names in English (if you google "slice golang" you will find tons of documentation. In the contrary, if you search "fetta" (Italian translation of "slice") you won't find anything related to Go).

But in any case, you're right and the readability would surely benefit from your suggestion! I will do it now!

Thank you for your time, Lucio!

Grazie!

[Alessandro Baffa]

Done, Lucio! ;)

[Manlio Perillo]

Il giorno venerdì 6 marzo 2015 01:33:59 UTC+1, Alessandro Baffa ha scritto:

I fixed the accents you mentioned.

I will wait for the rest of the review tomorrow.

welcome/1:

  -  "eseguire il programma a remote server" -> "eseguire il programma su un server remoto"

welcome/3:

 - "eserizio" -> "esercizio"

basics/5:

  - "Quando due o piú variabili di una funzione, nominate e consecutive"

    feels wrong

basics/8

  - there is still a wrong accent "í"

basics/9

  - is the translation for "initializer" really "inizializzazione"? What about "inizializzatore"?

basics/10

  - is the best translation for "short" really "corta"? What about "breve" ?

basics/15

  - "caratteri" -> "carattere"

basics/16

 - "Una costante non tipizzata prende il tipo necessario dal suo contesto" ->

   "Una costante non tipizzata prende il tipo richiesto dal suo contesto" 

   (not sure)

Thank you for your time, Manlio!

Thanks to you for the translation.

However note that I'm against translating technical documentation: it is a false promise.

Regards  Manlio

[Alessandro Baffa]

basics/5:
  - "Quando due o piú variabili di una funzione, nominate e consecutive"
    feels wrong

Better this way?

"Quando due o piú variabili di una funzione, posizionate consecutivamente, "

basics/16
 - "Una costante non tipizzata prende il tipo necessario dal suo contesto" ->
   "Una costante non tipizzata prende il tipo richiesto dal suo contesto" 
   (not sure)

Yes, I think your suggestion is more correct than mine.

However note that I'm against translating technical documentation: it is a false promise.

In general, we all agree that in the context of "software engineering" the English language is the main one, and everyone who is in this field must be able to read documentation written in English.

However, there some countries (like Italy or Japan ..), where the average level of English is lower than in other countries (like Germany, or all the Northern Europe), and I think that having some - even basic, just to start with - documentation I think it can be a good help.

Again, thank you very much for your time on this!

Regards,

Alessandro

[Lucio]

Appreciated.  I'll find some time over the weekend to go through the translation.  The little I looked at seemed pretty slick, but I'm good at spotting inconsistencies in general, hopefully it will hold in my rust Italian, too.

It feels funny to improve readability for foreign readers, but it can't hurt.  Thank you for the efforts.

Lucio.

On Friday, 6 March 2015 08:42:12 UTC+2, Alessandro Baffa wrote:

Done, Lucio! ;)

[Lucio]

On Friday, 6 March 2015 15:29:43 UTC+2, Manlio Perillo wrote:

However note that I'm against translating technical documentation: it is a false promise.

I'd like to say that I'm with you on this one, but there is also a need for non-elitism.  Here in South Africa we have an extreme case of going too far the other way (eleven "official" languages, only English actually qualifies as a language, Afrikaans has a significant written literature, but borrows an increasing amount of technical jargon from English), but the majority isn't English literate and will only become so if they gain access to education in their own vernacular (one sees that happen to the Afrikaans population, their English fluency is definitely, necessarily increasing - they are at an advantage over the Bantu-speakers precisely because English has always been their second language).

What Alessandro is achieving is important, giving access to many who would not otherwise be able to gain such access.  I don't think there is enough motive to compel non-English speakers to learn the intricacies of the language, largely only the notational value of the English vocabulary is really relevant for technical purposes.  Even  the complexity of English pronunciation is of no interest to the technologist.

My heart does go out to those who need to learn a new alphabet before they can cross the divide.  Imagine if it was us that had to learn to exchange information in Chinese or Korean :-)

Lucio.

[Manlio Perillo]

Il giorno venerdì 6 marzo 2015 16:50:30 UTC+1, Lucio ha scritto:

On Friday, 6 March 2015 15:29:43 UTC+2, Manlio Perillo wrote:

However note that I'm against translating technical documentation: it is a false promise.

I'd like to say that I'm with you on this one, but there is also a need for non-elitism.

> [...]

There are two main problems with translations.

The first is that you are able to only translate a very minimal part of Go documentation.

The Go Tour is the Go entry point, but after that there are the Effective Go, the FAQ, the Go specification and, of course, the reference documentation for each package.

The second problem is keeping the translation up to date.

It requires more coordination to update the translation, compared to the initial translation.

An out of date translation is worse than no documentation.

Tools can help, however, and I wrote some tools for python.it, but never used it due to lack of time and motivation.

These are two problem I have seen with the Italian translation of the Python documentation, including some open source books.

With Go, things are even more complex, since some documentation is in HTML instead of a text format (like asciidoc) and other is in source code.

It can certainly be done, and it was done with python.it, but it requires a lot of motivation and coordination skills.

Regards  Manlio

[Alessandro Baffa]

The first is that you are able to only translate a very minimal part of Go documentation.

Sure. Though, I think that having the vary basics explained in your native language can also increase the curiosity to the reader, and then it'll be up to him to go further with the rest of the documentation in English.

 

The second problem is keeping the translation up to date.
It requires more coordination to update the translation, compared to the initial translation.

The Go Tour has already changed over the time (I know because I took a look to the Spanish translation, and it is an older one), but the content I'm pretty sure didn't change (or at least, not so much). In the end, the tour describes the very basics, and I don't think that they will ever change (again). At worst, there will be new content to add in the future .. I'm optimistic :)

[HaWe]

About keepeing translations up to date:
Sure, that is work. But it's not as hard as it seems to be.
Clone the Go archive and 'git diff' is your friend.

[Manlio Perillo]

Il giorno venerdì 6 marzo 2015 14:29:43 UTC+1, Manlio Perillo ha scritto:

Il giorno venerdì 6 marzo 2015 01:33:59 UTC+1, Alessandro Baffa ha scritto:

I fixed the accents you mentioned.

I will wait for the rest of the review tomorrow.

This is the second part.

flowcontrol/1

 - "ad eccezione che le parentesi" -> "con l'eccezione che le parentesi" or

   "tranne che le parentesi" (by google.translate)

flowcontrol/2

 - "puoi lasciare le istruzioni di pre e post vuote." ->

   "puoi lasciare le istruzioni pre e post vuote."

    It is still not very readable, since a novice does not know what pre and post are.

    IMHO this is a bug in the original slide.

flowcontrol/4

 - another wrong accent "á"

flowcontrol/5

  - Is "infinito" the best translation for "forever"

  - See flowcontrol/1 for "except that"

flowcontrol/8

 - another wrong accent "ú"

 - "usa la sintassi a virgola mobile" is a liberal translation of

   "give it floating point syntax"

flowcontrol/9

 - another wrong accent "á"

flowcontrol/10

 - another liberal translation, but an exact translation of "Switch cases evaluate cases" would feel bad, IMHO.

flowcontrol/11

 - "modo molto pulito" -> "modo pulito"

 - "molto lunghi" -> "molto lunghe"

flowcontrol/12

 - "Una condizione di defer" -> "Una istruzione defer"

   Since in all other slides, "statement" is translated as "istruzione"

 - "vicina" (near, in english) is not the correct translation for "surrounding".

flowcontrol/13

 - "Defers impilati" -> "Impilamento di defers" / "Impilare funzioni differite"

   A liberal "Defers impilati" feels better, however.

   Still, IMHO, "defers" is not a valid italian adjective (but I'm not a grammar expert).

 - There is a wrong bracket "(" after FIFO: it should probably be an hypen.

 - Another wrong accent "ú".

Next lesson tomorrow

 

Regards  Manlio

[Alessandro Baffa]

flowcontrol/5
  - Is "infinito" the best translation for "forever"

It is related to the infinite loop, so "ciclo infinito" I think it can be good. So, saying "Infinito" as title I think has the same meaning as it has in English.

flowcontrol/8
 - another wrong accent "ú"
 - "usa la sintassi a virgola mobile" is a liberal translation of
   "give it floating point syntax"

"sintassi a virgola mobile" should be correct. It's the Italian translation I've always found in all the programming book written in Italian ...

flowcontrol/10
 - another liberal translation, but an exact translation of "Switch cases evaluate cases" would feel bad, IMHO.

Yes, I agree. Well, I have used some liberal translation ONLY when the exact literal translation would have sounded weird in Italian. Of course without change anything of the meaning!

flowcontrol/12
 - "Una condizione di defer" -> "Una istruzione defer"
   Since in all other slides, "statement" is translated as "istruzione"
 - "vicina" (near, in english) is not the correct translation for "surrounding".

Yes, I agree. I changed the title from "Defer" to "Funzioni differite (defer)". 

flowcontrol/13

 - "Defers impilati" -> "Impilamento di defers" / "Impilare funzioni differite"

   A liberal "Defers impilati" feels better, however.

   Still, IMHO, "defers" is not a valid italian adjective (but I'm not a grammar expert).

Agreed. I changed it to "Defer sovrapposti". This way it clearly refers to the previous slide, so I don't have to repeat "Funzioni differite" again. Also, It is "Defer" and not "Defers" because, as far as I know, when English words are used, they are always used in singular, never plural.

I have fixed all the other things you mentioned. It's already online.

Thanks!!

[Lucio]

My most memorable experience was being taught (too long ago to name dates) about team programming.

I think that Alessandro, Manlio and myself ought to gang together and treat the translation of the Go documentation as our project.  Defining individual roles is hard, but at least we can learn to keep each other informed and learn to rely on the team to get things done.

I'm not offering or promising anything at this point, but I do believe that at least following this conversation is something I can do.  I'm busy right now and I have lots of hare-brained project that side-track me all the time, but monitoring one more mail thread is no big deal.  When I have more time, I'll put more effort into things. In the meantime, any request to check a translation will at minimum receive some acknowledgement from me.

More should be for further private communication, I think.

Lucio.