reference for Godard quote on narrative "not necessarily in that order"

[James Kreines]

Can anyone help me to find a way to properly document and reference Godard's famous quote about narrative order? I see it is often used, but not (as far as I can find) documented. I originally thought it might not be genuine. But several scholars have helpfully answered, and the consensus is strong that it is genuine. I believe that the best suggestions are that it was verbal exchange with someone. Possibly Clouzot, I think? Possibly at Cannes? Possibly in 1966? I think it went like this:

Q: (something like) Do you admit that a film requires a beginning, middle and an end?

Godard: 'Yes, but not necessarily in that order.'"

Does anyone know how to best document and refer to properly document the original?   

thanks!

Jim Kreines

jkreines ----- at ------- gmail

[David Arthur-Simons]

Godard: 'Yes, but not necessarily in that order.'

The Films of Jean-Luc Godard: Seeing the Invisible - Page 20

Godard: A Portrait of the Artist at Seventy - Page 326

Film Editing: History, Theory and Practice - Page 315

The New Wave: Truffaut, Godard, Chabrol, Rohmer, Rivette - Page 118

The Films of Jean-Luc Godard - Page 104

Great film directors: a critical anthology - Page 371

 

David Arthur-Simons

डेविड आर्थर-सिमंस

大卫·亚瑟·西蒙斯

Дэвид Артур-Саймонс

ديفيد آرثر سيمونز

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[James Kreines]

I should specify that I only mean to ask whether anyone happens to know anything more offhand, by way of a reference that does more to establish the quote as genuine and to settle issues like the wording and the identity of the questioner. 

thanks,

Jim

[James Kreines]

In case it is any use to anyone, a generous scholar sent a helpful email pointing to a reference to a Time magazine article with quotes for an exchange specifically with Franju:

 http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DK0R8SVtZccC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq

He suggested, however, that Godard may have said this on many occasions and in many ways. I thought I should mention this, in case it is any help or interest to anyone else. I may also have found a first-person account of the same exchange, but credited to Clouzot, but I am waiting for that to be delivered. Will post if it turns out to be of possible interest. I am still interested if anyone knows anything else interesting offhand. 

thanks!

Jim

On Thursday, February 27, 2014 8:04:55 AM UTC-8, James Kreines wrote:

[Julien dAbrigeon]

I heve search and don't find anything axcept an Olivier Todd novel from 1982 quoting it (but without any Franju relation... Just the fact that it was in Cannes).

So, Franju was in Cannes in 1962 for "Thérèse Desqueyroux"... In my opinion, it's certainly the key : 1962...

J

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De : James Kreines <jkre...@gmail.com>
À : godar...@googlegroups.com
Envoyé le : Samedi 1 mars 2014 23h38
Objet : Re: reference for Godard quote on narrative "not necessarily in that order"

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[James Kreines]

Thanks! Here is what I think might be a first person account. But maybe not. I haven't yet gotten hold of the source:

http://books.google.com/books?ei=9ygOU9rwFJKJogT3toKABQ&id=aPS7AAAAIAAJ&dq=and+at+some+point+clouzot+got+very+angry&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=%22clouzot+got+very+angry%22

Best,
Jim

[Julien dAbrigeon]

and Godard was really there in 1962 : http://www.ina.fr/video/I10354921

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De : Julien dAbrigeon <juliend...@yahoo.fr>
À : "godar...@googlegroups.com" <godar...@googlegroups.com>
Envoyé le : Samedi 1 mars 2014 23h59

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[James Kreines]

Also the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations cites the Time magazine account:

http://books.google.com/books?id=o6rFno1ffQoC&pg=PA342&lpg=PA342&dq=%22certainly.+but+not+necessarily+in+that+order%22&source=bl&ots=Qyg6HcQk_0&sig=S67msbM8JqtGsMiON2lC_V6_JQE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fZ8SU6eKMNCIogSF_IDICg&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22certainly.%20but%20not%20necessarily%20in%20that%20order%22&f=false

On Thursday, February 27, 2014 8:04:55 AM UTC-8, James Kreines wrote:

[James Kreines]

I found the Time source, but it seems kind of offhand to me:

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,924877,00.html

On Thursday, February 27, 2014 8:04:55 AM UTC-8, James Kreines wrote:

[James Kreines]

And it does seem promising that 1962 might be the year:

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-18760898.html

On Thursday, February 27, 2014 8:04:55 AM UTC-8, James Kreines wrote:

[James Kreines]

Dear Julien,

The best I ever found was this quote by a director named Louis Malle:

>>>>>>>>>>>

I remember that there was a symposium at the

Cannes Festival ten years ago about scripts. It happened that Godard was there,

and at some point Clouzot got very angry and he said, "But you must admit that a

script should have a beginning, a middle, and an end", and Godard said, "Yes, but

not necessarily in that order."

>>>>>>>>>

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tkh8wll7sxs4hh/interview%20with%20Louis%20Malle%20including%20Godard%20comment.pdf

But the rest of the evidence seemed to point to Franjou, and I don't know if the quote is personal memory or eighteenth hand. 

best,

Jim

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Jim Kreines
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[James Kreines]

Well, the best I've found is what might be a personal recollection of a directory named Louis Malle in the publication linked above:

>>>>>>>>>

I remember that there was a symposium at the

Cannes Festival ten years ago about scripts. It happened that Godard was there,

and at some point Clouzot got very angry and he said, "But you must admit that a

script should have a beginning, a middle, and an end", and Godard said, "Yes, but

not necessarily in that order."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

But I am not sure if that is just seventh hand repeating. 

best,

jk

On Thursday, February 27, 2014 8:04:55 AM UTC-8, James Kreines wrote: