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I'm curious what others would do in their game:
- Allow a moderately optimized PC to use these to get free permanent spells for himself and the other PC's.
- Block the PC from this using some Rule 0 house rule.
I'd mostly allow it used to get several of the effects, but if the PC in question started to push the ceiling with it i'd have an after session chat about expectations. A 7500 gp permanency is 16 STR damage. Most wizards don't have that. If you took it to the next level and started talking about magic jarring into giants and burning their STR or some other behavior... (yes, i consider that exploitive) i'd say no.
While a savvy player could use permanency with blood money, the minimum str damage they will be taking is 5 points for the 2500gp costs, plus whatever the spells cost for their materials. The next level of cost for permanency is 5k gp which is 10 str damage...which in many wizard cases will mean unconscious. Hope for a cleric and plenty of time...
I have a fairly short list of approved sourcebooks, and anyone who wants to use anything from outside of this list (Paizo or otherwise) needs to ask for GM approval first. I usually say yes to my players, but handling things this way allows me to swat down stuff like Blood Money without having to worry too hard.
Being part of a campaign, I'm more curious how you came across the spell. Campaign spells usually serve a particular role in the campaign elsewhere and aren't for general consumption. If you ran across it, identified it, did the research and acquired it "on your own," then have at it.
Wouldn't strength draining giants be a pretty effective way of making them less destructive? If it happens to supply permanent spells for a party of do-gooders in the process, that's just efficiency...
To be fair, a dispel magic can cause all sorts of havoc when it comes to "permanent" spells. Ran into a caster who tossed an AoE dispel to debuff the party? Go down the list of items and effects to see what sticks around, lost a "permanent" spell? Going to need to do it again.
And this isn't even really "targeting" you out, it is just sound tactics for any intelligent/experienced caster who might be outnumbered by the party. Or any creature, summoned by a caster, who might have the ability for that matter.
I'm fairly certain our group would be fine with you having it, just don't expect to stop the party every time something happens and you need to redo the spells. And expect to "share" when there is downtime ;)
You want to have your Wizard throw his mind into a dragon's body in order to abuse its Strength score to make gold from nothing via Fabricate? No. STR isn't so difficult to come by, especially temporarily, remember that when using blood money the wizard needs the STR for a couple of minutes at best (enough time for several castings of lesser restoration). AUC.register('auc_MessageboardPostRowDisplay'); AjaxBusy.register('masked', 'busy', 'auc_MessageboardPostRowDisplay', null, null) ryric RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 Jan 9, 2015, 05:24 am Especially in Runelords there is a reason to restrict access to blood money, considering the only copy of the spell in existence is in Spoiler: Karzoug's personal spellbook. If you're following the normal advancement track for Runelords you'll be in the post-campaign before you get it.
This allows the DM to selectively make avaiable a carefully chosen selection of spells, provided by NPC allies, magic shops and treasure drops. And of course to surreptitiously restrict access to undesired spells.
This said, if you've already allowed the spell to be acquired, a very simple limitation would be that the spell only functions off a single draw on the caster's base (unmodified) strength score. After all, it says right in the spell description that it only lasts a single round, only enough time for that one extra spell.
And, speaking of a single round, I see that permanency requires 2 rounds casting time. That right there would seems to disallow using blood money on it. Not to mention the extra round for the spell that permanency is cast on. RAW would hence appear to prohibit blood money + permanency exploits.
Spoiler:
The scroll from the Black Monk will randomly generate one of the 7 sin spells if you fail your spellcraft check. If you fail, you have a 1-in-7 chance of generating Blood Money as your random spell.
And to answer the question: most GMs disallow Permanency in general. And Magic Jar + Blood Money is a non-bo because of the wording; so luckily even in the worst case you need a 15 Str (you can go to 0 during the casting).
As a GM I would personally ask the player not to do it since it will destroy the wealth cap; and as a player if you have a hesitation on doing something like this it is probably good to "not do it"... the object is not to make the game a cakewalk or frustrate your GM.
Again, permanency with blood money simply won't work, given the 2-round casting time of permanency, and the fact that the expensive material component created by blood money disappears at the end of the first round.
Careful, I've seen some heated arguments about whether material components disappear at the beginning or end of casting multi-round spells. AUC.register('auc_MessageboardPostRowDisplay'); AjaxBusy.register('masked', 'busy', 'auc_MessageboardPostRowDisplay', null, null) plaidwandering Jan 9, 2015, 06:51 am 1 person marked this as a favorite. Not a faq or anything but:
post AUC.register('auc_MessageboardPostRowDisplay'); AjaxBusy.register('masked', 'busy', 'auc_MessageboardPostRowDisplay', null, null) Wheldrake Jan 9, 2015, 06:53 am Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber Aha! And here I was convinced I'd actually stumbled on a rules loophole that gimped blood money in an important way that was actually written in RAW.
As a GM I would personally ask the player not to do it since it will destroy the wealth cap; and as a player if you have a hesitation on doing something like this it is probably good to "not do it"... the object is not to make the game a cakewalk or frustrate your GM. Also in book 5 where the players find a ton of ancinet thassilonian spellbooks, and probably in Mokmurian's (book 4) spellbook AUC.register('auc_MessageboardPostRowDisplay'); AjaxBusy.register('masked', 'busy', 'auc_MessageboardPostRowDisplay', null, null) Charender Jan 9, 2015, 12:32 pm Skylancer4 wrote: To be fair, a dispel magic can cause all sorts of havoc when it comes to "permanent" spells. Ran into a caster who tossed an AoE dispel to debuff the party? Go down the list of items and effects to see what sticks around, lost a "permanent" spell? Going to need to do it again.
I'm fairly certain our group would be fine with you having it, just don't expect to stop the party every time something happens and you need to redo the spells. And expect to "share" when there is downtime ;) This. Even without blood money, there is the possibility to abusing permanency. In many cases, you can use it to get effects that are cheaper than an equivalent magic item, and slotless.Any enemy who studies the party would be stupid to not target the party with dispels. Dispel magic can be made into a trap, and so on. Any party that I felt was over using permanency would definitely find some enemies shooing for their achilies heel.
Any enemy who studies the party would be stupid to not target the party with dispels. Dispel magic can be made into a trap, and so on. Any party that I felt was over using permanency would definitely find some enemies shooing for their achilies heel. Permanency can only make a small list of personal spells permanent. Spending your action in combat to try and get rid of something like permanent tongues or see invisibility is a terrible idea, especially as most caster enemies will already be facing serious action economy issues. AUC.register('auc_MessageboardPostRowDisplay'); AjaxBusy.register('masked', 'busy', 'auc_MessageboardPostRowDisplay', null, null) Nearyn Jan 9, 2015, 01:31 pm Why does it matter that you do not have to invest money into spell components to make your spells permanent?
Any enemy who studies the party would be stupid to not target the party with dispels. Dispel magic can be made into a trap, and so on. Any party that I felt was over using permanency would definitely find some enemies shooing for their achilies heel. Permanency can only make a small list of personal spells permanent. Spending your action in combat to try and get rid of something like permanent tongues or see invisibility is a terrible idea, especially as most caster enemies will already be facing serious action economy issues. Sure, getting rid of tongues would be useless.OTOH
See Invisibility
Magic Fang/Greater Magic Fang
Enlarge Person
Darkvision
Resistance
These are a different story, and that is just the spells from the CRB. I am pretty sure there have been spells from later books that have the "This spell can be made permenant via permanency" line in them.
Further, Greater Dispel magic can be used on an area to hit multiple targets or take multiple buffs of a single target. Maybe the enemy isn't going for the permanent tongues spell, but they are after the displacement spell on the party wizard, so their mooks can gang up on him. The tongues spell was just collateral damage. Maybe the bad guy was just trying to get rid of the see invisibility buff so they could go invisible and escape. Smart enemies will have reasons to use dispels on the party, and a trap that dispels the wizard's mage armor can be deadlier in the long run than one that hits him with a 5d6 lightning bolt.
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