Escola Medica

[JOHN DE FIGUEIREDO]

Attached is a document with the title "When did the School start?".

 Please note that the attached notes are copyrighted. All rights reserved. No part of this series of posts may be copied, reproduced or transmitted by mechanical, electronic or any other means without my prior permission.

The opinions expressed in the attached notes are my own and should not be construed as endorsed by Yale University where I teach or any other organization to which I belong.

John M. de Figueiredo

[cristiana bastos]

Dear Dr Figueiredo: 

It is extremely flattering that you are reading my work so closely, and I thank you for that, despite the fact that  you attribute to my person some intentions and opinions that are quite off the mark. I have no ideological project and no personal positionality regarding these matters. I read documents, manuscripts and other sources to come up with my interpretations, in dialogue with international and state-of-the-art scholarship, as any scholar should do; if you want to refute them, you are fully entitled to do so, and I would be very happy to be proven wrong if you find facts on primary sources. So far, however, your endnotes only refer to secondary sources, which as you know carry the multiple biases of their authors. 

Wishing well to you and to all GRNetters, 

cristiana 

Cristiana Bastos

Institute of Social Sciences | University of Lisbon | Av Anibal Bettencourt, 9 | 1600-189 Lisboa, Portugal 

https://cristianabastos.org/

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[John de Figueiredo]

Dear Cristiana,

Thank you for your message. 

I do not know what primary sources you are referring to. I have based all my comments on your publications and sources you cited in your publications and other sources that are also cited. The secondary sources I cited have primary sources cited in them.

Likewise I would also be happy to be proven wrong if there is evidence proving that I am wrong. I also have no vested interest in supporting or not supporting any ideology. I will have other comments forthcoming and you may want to wait until I am all done.

With best regards,

Sincerely,

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 18, 2023, at 2:53 PM, cristiana bastos <bastosc...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[cristiana bastos]

Dear Dr Figueiredo, 

Just to answer your question regarding which primary sources I am referring to, I will be happy to guide you through the 19th archives of the India Health Services that exist in the Arquivo Histórico Ultramarino (please note that they are manuscript and in Portuguese, I hope you are ok with that). Similar documents should exist  in Goa (the bureaucrats produced multiple copies, one to send, others to keep);  but I never crossed them.  Even though there is a wealth of documentation in Goa's archives, many things were lost. For example the archives of the medical school, which I tried to find in loco during my first visit to Goa in 1998, to learn that they had been thrown away as garbage, For many things I, too, relied on secondary sources, trusting fellow historians. For the enrolled students of the medical school, for instance, in the absence of enrollment archives, I relied on Peregrino da Costa, who gathered the data in what seems to be a reliable table. For the nineteenth century, however, I was able to use multiple sources, including the manuscripts of those who actually served in the health services in  Goa and in the medical  school. Believe me: the picture that emerges is VERY different from the institutional accounts provided by those who wanted to glorify the school and wrote backwards from the twentieth century, Germano Correia above all.  It is totally normal that memorialists of medicine in Goa like Correia tried to provide an image of continuity between the early attempts to teach medicine in the early days of Portuguese rule and what later became the Medical School of Goa. However, there are many gaps in that story, and it is a bit of a stretch to see the separate efforts to promote medical teaching in Goa  as a unified process. Correia's account, besides having tremendous leaps in time, minimizes two important elements that kept medicine and health going in Goa through the centuries: (a) local (not necessarily ayurvedic) medical practices and knowledge, and (b) the next door neighbors in Bombay, including the  East India Company surgeons and physicians. 

I will stop here for now, as this is not an academic debate - i just answered your question in good faith. 

best wishes to everyone and thanks to those who have the paciente to read this. 

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[Roland Francis]

Both John de Figueiredo and Cristiana Bastos are two individuals from whose posts we get interesting glimpses of the Escola Medica’s history and the achievements of its alumni. 

I wish the inherent animosity between the two could be somehow resolved and the fruits of their cooperation give us continued pleasure.

Just my opinion.

Roland.

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--

Roland Francis
416-453-3371

[Rafael Moreira]

YES, indeed. But Dr. Figueiredo is RIGHT, and Dr. Bastos is WRONG!
(Cristiana, se é lisboeta deve ter nascido na Maternidade Alfredo da
Costa, que era um grande médico …de Goa, sim!)
Yours, R.M.

> *https://cristianabastos.org/ <https://cristianabastos.org/>*

>> *https://cristianabastos.org/ <https://cristianabastos.org/>*

>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 7:20 PM JOHN DE FIGUEIREDO <
>> john...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Attached is a document with the title "When did the School start?".
>>>
>>> Please note that the attached notes are copyrighted. All rights
>>> reserved. No part of this series of posts may be copied, reproduced or
>>> transmitted by mechanical, electronic or any other means without my
>>> prior
>>> permission.
>>>
>>> The opinions expressed in the attached notes are my own and should not
>>> be
>>> construed as endorsed by Yale University where I teach or any other
>>> organization to which I belong.
>>> John M. de Figueiredo
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups
>>> "Goa-Research-Net" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an
>>> email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/1058818806.873661.1687112380282%40mail.yahoo.com

>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/1058818806.873661.1687112380282%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .

>>>
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>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAJ_erVO_NF8qvHvU2WjQngdk1F9TCgq6%2BKRyAis4E6wPgv6wxA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
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>>
>
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>

[cristiana bastos]

Dear Roland -- and all GRNetters. No animosity here, no matter the not very nice things i have to read about myself -- intentions I do not have, agendas i am not aware of. Every now and then I engage in correcting some inaccuracies, and, again, to state that I have absolutely no ideological position, agenda, whatsoever, and that my work results from independent, non-aligned research. Dr Figueiredo seems to be on a mission, that is his mission, and he spells my name right, which is not always the case with readers. 

well wishes to everyone. 

Cristiana Bastos

PI, ERC Adv Grant "The Colour of Labour" 

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[John de Figueiredo]

Dear Cristiana,

Let me assure you, and all those who have the patience to read my posts, my mission is to discover and expose the truth. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Warm regards,

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 18, 2023, at 5:46 PM, cristiana bastos <bastosc...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[John de Figueiredo]

Dear Roland,

What animosity? I stated, time and again, I have no animosity towards Dr. Bastos, none whatsoever. In fact, I have respect and admiration for her. I just happen to disagree with some of her renderings of the history of Escola Medica and some of her interpretations. I have documented my statements in great detail. I will continue to do so. And once again: I only debate with people I respect. But I see this more as a friendly conversation, not a debate.

Best regards,

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 18, 2023, at 5:36 PM, Roland Francis <roland....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Roland Francis]

With due respect, one exposes lies, but one reveals the truth. Unless of course you prefer “expose the truth” as a forceful and forthright way of “exposing” someone else’s lies through correction of an error.

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--

Roland Francis
416-453-3371

[John de Figueiredo]

Exposing the truth is not necessarily accusing someone else of lying. I am exposing my viewpoint with the utmost respect and documented in great detail. If I am wrong, I want to know that as well.

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 18, 2023, at 6:28 PM, Roland Francis <roland....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[John de Figueiredo]

For centuries humankind believed in Newtonian physics. Then Einstein came and demonstrated the limitations of Newtonian physics. Does this mean that Einstein accused Newton of lying? The answer is obvious.

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 18, 2023, at 6:28 PM, Roland Francis <roland....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Rafael Moreira]

As always, you're absolutely RIGHT, that's true!
(I meant what I said in a general way…)
Yours, R.M.

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/211065CD-9ED7-41EB-80BD-2853D99C662B%40sbcglobal.net.
>

[JOHN DE FIGUEIREDO]

Dear all,

My apologies. In the attachment to my previous message I inadvertently ommitted one bibliographic reference. 

Please discard that attachment.

Attached is a revised attachment.

Sincerely,

John M. de Figueiredo

[John de Figueiredo]

OK. I will REVEAL the truths by EXPOSING the evidence (data) supporting those truths.

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 18, 2023, at 6:28 PM, Roland Francis <roland....@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CA%2Bx1-5QPRNAZBgP6JszWdQydbR2Q1_baQXOjb0NgmVZoxq9mfA%40mail.gmail.com.