Escola Medica

[JOHN DE FIGUEIREDO]

Attached please fnd the final document of this series of posts titled "The First Goan Directors, the Centennial, the Historians of the School, and the End of the School".

Please note that the attached notes are copyrighted. All rights reserved. No part of this series of posts may be copied, reproduced or transmitted by mechanical, electronic or any other means without my prior permission.

The opinions expressed in the attached  notes are my own and should not be construed as endorsed by Yale University where I teach or any other organization to which I belong.

Sincerely,

John M. de Figueiredo

[cristiana bastos]

Dear GRNetters, 

Accept wishes for a wonderful New Year. 

I am delighted to know that Dr Figueiredo's mission of  dismissing my work is now completed and we can move on. Unfortunately, I have not had the time to read the fascicles thoroughly and respond to them as most came out while I was under surgery and post-surgery treatments; but now I am well and will be happy to read and reply to some of the challenges. From my quite diagonal browsing of some pages, I see that some of Dr Figueiredo's comments are sound and potentially useful to the knowledge of this subject, as they assemble complementar information; others, not so much; many of them are speculative and judgemental, and some are plain insult --  which I am sure was not meant by the author, whom, to the best of my knowledge, is a gentleman and a highly educated person, albeit not trained in history and in the art, the science and the labor of interpreting sources.

I will be more than happy to respond to Dr Figueiredo's specific questions and debate on matters that I may contribute to -- Public Health in 19th century Goa, the politics/medicine nexus, the inner works of Portuguese imperial governance, etc. Even though I occasionally entered into the 17th and 18th centuries (to better understand the health care system of which the royal hospital was part of),  and also occasionally into the  20th century (e.g. the biography of Dr Froilano de Melo, for which I used multiple sources including interviewing his now deceased  sons Victor and Alfredo),  I remain focused on the 19th century and the early 20th. I am certainly no  specialist in the 20th century - Goa or otherwise -- and  I do not have the embodied knowledge of having lived in Goa; not in any form or manner am I competing for who knows Goa and things Goan better, 20th century or other. My task is way more modest -- approach a particular society (19th century colonial Goa) using the analytical lenses of the social sciences, in dialogue with scholarly literature (the ones I quote in my articles), and focus on one of its institutions, the Medical School, to better understand the workings of empire and the actual complexity of local agency and local lives. To be honest, my early goal, when I started with this project in 1997/8, had been to study colonial medicine with a critical view on the Portuguese empire at wide. But from the moment when  at the NYU library I found a collection of  Arquivos da Escola  Medico-Cirúrgica -- a scientific journal published in Goa by Goan doctors and pharmacists-- Goa was meant to take the lead, and in fact it took not just the lead but the entire task  --  I ended up focusing almost exclusively on Goa and left other sites for another time or another life -- actually for other scholars, as I moved on in my research interests and most of my work now is on plantation labor, not on the history of medicine or public health.  For those who wonder,  here: http://colour.ics.ulisboa.pt/publications/ and here https://cristianabastos.org. 

I have not worked with Goa for a while; however, there was a book project interrupted which had been sitting for a long time and got refreshed during the pandemic. It counts on a number of stellar young and less young scholars with serious hands-on research. I had the honor of pushing the cart, but the merit is theirs. I invite all of those who can read Portuguese to check it out: Medicina e Império em Goa - do conhecimento das plantas à biopolítica colonial (Lisboa, Imprensa de Ciências Sociais, 2022)

Introdução Medicina e império em Goa: uma introdução . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 Cristiana Bastos 

Capítulo 1 Os diálogos de Orta e Ruano sobre as frutas e legumes do Oriente: os testemunhos de uma outra face da Ásia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 Teresa Nobre de Carvalho 

Capítulo 2 «Esperiencias das hervas orientaes»: um inventário quinhentista de materia medica indiana . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 59 Oana Baboi 

Capítulo 3 Técnicas terapêuticas nativas da Índia utilizadas nas instituições médicas coloniais portuguesas de Goa, Damão e Diu (1680-1830) . . 89 Timothy Walker 

Capítulo 4 As ordens religiosas e a construção de uma medicina europeia aplicada aos trópicos: a ação da Companhia de Jesus a partir de Goa 123 Fabiano Bracht 

Capítulo 5 Segredos, orientalismo e botânica médica em Goa, c.1840-1930 . . . . 145 Ricardo Roque 

Capítulo 6 Instituições coloniais e processos locais no governo da saúde em Goa: hospitais, físicos-mores, Escola Médica e saúde pública . 187 Cristiana Bastos 

Capítulo 7 Goa perante a varíola: saberes concorrentes, poderes ambíguos e práticas conjugadas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 235 Cristiana Bastos 

Capítulo 8 A lanceta contra a deusa: vacina antivariólica e variolização em Goa . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 255 Mónica Saavedra 

Capítulo 9 Goa perante a cólera e a peste: epidemias, conhecimento médico e políticas sanitárias . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 287 Cristiana Bastos e Mónica Saavedra 

Capítulo 10 Saúde pública, contextos coloniais e actores locais no século xx: o controlo da doença de Hansen na Índia Portuguesa . . . . . . . . . . . 329 Mónica Saavedra

I hope you can enjoy it 

wishes of a wonderful New Year

cristiana 

Cristiana Bastos

Institute of Social Sciences | University of Lisbon | Av Anibal Bettencourt, 9 | 1600-189 Lisboa, Portugal 

https://cristianabastos.org/

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[John de Figueiredo]

Dear Cristiana,

It was never my intention to insult you and nothing I wrote should be interpreted as such.

Happy New Year to you and all members of GRN.

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2023, at 3:46 PM, cristiana bastos <bastosc...@gmail.com> wrote:



Dear GRNetters, 

Accept wishes for a wonderful New Year. 

I am delighted to know that Dr Figueiredo's mission of  dismissing my work is now completed and we can move on. Unfortunately, I have not had the time to read the fascicles thoroughly and respond to them as most came out while I was under surgery and post-surgery treatments; but now I am well and will be happy to read and reply to some of the challenges. From my quite diagonal browsing of some pages, I see that some of Dr Figueiredo's comments are sound and potentially useful to the knowledge of this subject, as they assemble complementar information; others, not so much; many of them are speculative and judgemental, and some are plain insult --  which I am sure was not meant by the author, whom, to the best of my knowledge, is a gentleman and a highly educated person, albeit not trained in history and in the art, the science and the labor of interpreting sources.

I will be more than happy to respond to Dr Figueiredo's specific questions and debate on matters that I may contribute to -- Public Health in 19th century Goa, the politics/medicine nexus, the inner works of Portuguese imperial governance, etc. Even though I occasionally entered into the 17th and 18th centuries (to better understand the health care system of which the royal hospital was part of),  and also occasionally into the  20th century (e.g. the biography of Dr Froilano de Melo, for which I used multiple sources including interviewing his now deceased  sons Victor and Alfredo),  I remain focused on the 19th century and the early 20th. I am certainly no  specialist in the 20th century - Goa or otherwise -- and  I do not have the embodied knowledge of having lived in Goa; not in any form or manner am I competing for who knows Goa and things Goan better, 20th century or other. My task is way more modest -- approach a particular society (19th century colonial Goa) using the analytical lenses of the social sciences, in dialogue with scholarly literature (the ones I quote in my articles), and focus on one of its institutions, the Medical School, to better understand the workings of empire and the actual complexity of local agency and local lives. To be honest, my early goal, when I started with this project in 1997/8, had been to study colonial medicine with a critical view on the Portuguese empire at wide. But from the moment when  at the NYU library I found a collection of  Arquivos da Escola  Medico-Cirúrgica -- a scientific journal published in Goa by Goan doctors and pharmacists-- Goa was meant to take the lead, and in fact it took not just the lead but the entire task  --  I ended up focusing almost exclusively on Goa and left other sites for another time or another life -- actually for other scholars, as I moved on in my research interests and most of my work now is on plantation labor, not on the history of medicine or public health.  For those who wonder,  here: http://colour.ics.ulisboa.pt/publications/ and here https://cristianabastos.org. 

I have not worked with Goa for a while; however, there was a book project interrupted which had been sitting for a long time and got refreshed during the pandemic. It counts on a number of stellar young and less young scholars with serious hands-on research. I had the honor of pushing the cart, but the merit is theirs. I invite all of those who can read Portuguese to check it out: Medicina e Império em Goa - do conhecimento das plantas à biopolítica colonial (Lisboa, Imprensa de Ciências Sociais, 2022)

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAJ_erVNBT5CZiGhKfj-USp-Hr5XoR03yoWiosQuz1KzAHkhvsA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Roland Francis]

Many thanks to John de Figueiredo for his chain of articles on the Escola Medica. 

Even I who knew nothing of this institution except by name, was absorbed in the contents. 

Roland Francis

Toronto.

On Dec 31, 2023, at 1:33 AM, John de Figueiredo <john...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Dear Cristiana,

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/5AEF653C-523F-47B4-9CF8-EB7274003618%40sbcglobal.net.

[Frederick Noronha]

Thanks for that link. It drew me to the table of contents... 

index
Figure index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
Notes on authors. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
Introduction
Medicine and empire in Goa: an introduction. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
Cristiane Bastos
Chapter 1
Orta and Ruano’s dialogues about Eastern fruits and vegetables:
testimonies of another face of Asia. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31
Tereza Nobre de Carvalho
Chapter 2
«Experiences of oriental herbs»: a 16th century inventory
of Indian materia medica. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 59
Oana Baboi
Chapter 3
Therapeutic techniques native to India used in institutions
Portuguese colonial doctors from Goa, Daman and Diu (1680-1830). . 89
Timothy Walker
Chapter 4
Religious orders and the construction of European medicine
applied to the tropics: the action of the Society of Jesus from Goa 123
Fabiano Bracht
Medicine and Empire in Goa
8
Chapter 5
Secrets, orientalism and medical botany in Goa, c.1840-1930. . . . 145
Ricardo Roque
Chapter 6
Colonial institutions and local processes in health governance
in Goa: hospitals, chief physicists, Medical School and public health. 187
Cristiane Bastos
Chapter 7
Goa in the face of smallpox: competing knowledge, ambiguous powers
and combined practices. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 235
Cristiane Bastos
Chapter 8
The lancet against the goddess: smallpox vaccine and variolation
in Goa. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 255
Monica Saavedra
Chapter 9
Goa in the face of cholera and plague: epidemics, medical knowledge
and health policies. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 287
Cristiana Bastos and Mónica Saavedra
Chapter 10
Public health, colonial contexts and local actors in the 20th century:
the control of Hansen's disease in Portuguese India. . . . . . . . . . . 329
Monica Saavedra
Index. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 363

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAJ_erVNBT5CZiGhKfj-USp-Hr5XoR03yoWiosQuz1KzAHkhvsA%40mail.gmail.com.

[John de Figueiredo]

Dear Cristiana,
You obviously do not know the Goan culture well. You say you heard I am a gentleman (and I thank you for the compliment). You should know that a Goan gentleman would never insult a lady. I said at the beginning that I only debate with people I respect.
Let us stick to the issues. On some issues I agree with you. On other issues, I disagree. I footnoted and referenced all my notes. I carefully separated my opinions from data. On issues about which we disagree, I am convinced that the data are on my side.
Whether I have had the training, or you have had the training, is irrelevant. I am a scientist and I believe in data. If the data are valid and reliable (and not just hearsay or political slogans), then hopefully we will both learn something and move forward.
Regarding Dr. Froilano de Melo having proposed to Salazar the idea of a Lusophone confederation: As far as I know, even Menezes Bragança, courageous as he was, never put forward this idea. Therefore, I will only believe it if I see that confidential letter to Salazar referenced in an archive in Portugal. Otherwise the reader will be left with the impression that this was an attempt made by Freddy to “rehabilitate” his father in the light of the new political order.
Incidentally, both Freddy and Victor were my friends (though much older than me). Victor was my older brothers’ colleague at MIT.
Best wishes,

[John de Figueiredo]

You’re welcome, Roland. Thank you for reading my posts.

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 31, 2023, at 5:10 PM, Roland Francis <roland....@gmail.com> wrote:

Many thanks to John de Figueiredo for his chain of articles on the Escola Medica. 

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/2DF9F4E8-7F9E-4A25-A6F6-D98F0DB9EDA4%40gmail.com.

[Joao Paulo Cota]

I am not sure if everybody is aware but both Escola Medica de Goa and Liceu Nacional Afonso de Albuquerque institutions have both been honoured with dedicated postage stamps.

Not many similar institutions worldwide enjoy such distinction.

---

From: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of John de Figueiredo <john...@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: 31 December 2023 23:38
To: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [GRN] Escola Medica

 

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/A673E7A8-8583-486A-B87B-2D6FE545C47B%40sbcglobal.net.

[Nuno Cardoso da Silva]

Dear John,

 

There were quite a few people in Portugal who, at different times and under various forms, thought that some type of Lusophone confederation would be the best solution. I wouldn't be surprised if Dr. Froilano de Melo was one of them. Unfortunately there weren't then enough enlightened people in government, within the Estado Novo structure, to realize it. The funny thing is that the present CPLP may still evolve into something not very different. It may not be called a confederation, but if citizens of all CPLP countries are allowed unrestricted residence, working permit and right to vote in any of the other member states, the end result will be very much the same. And I see it as a real possibility.

 

All the best

 

Nuno

 

 

Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2023 at 10:11 PM
From: "John de Figueiredo" <john...@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Goa-Research-Net" <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [GRN] Escola Medica

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[John de Figueiredo]

Dear Nuno,

I have no doubt that Dr. Melo had the idea or that the copy of the letter from Dr. Melo to Salazar shown by Freddy to Dr. Bastos was authentic. I just think that it would be nice to know if the original letter was ever received and if it is found in an archive somewhere in Portugal. Since Dr. Melo never expressed this idea publicly and even kept the letter confidential, seems to me that the level of evidence for a fundamental issue such as this one should meet a higher standard. 

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 1, 2024, at 7:27 AM, 'Nuno Cardoso da Silva' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/trinity-9968e694-c735-4ef6-add3-3f895b3dc566-1704106556576%403c-app-mailcom-bs14.

[Peter de Souza]

Dear colleagues,

I do not normally participate in debates that require domain knowledge but having read the mail of Dr Cristiana Bastos and the reply of Dr John de Figueiredo, I feel I must do so not on the data issues being discussed but on the tone and tenor of the statements made. Dr Bastos's mail was fair and reasonable. Dr Figueiredo's mail was immodest and provocative. There are five issues on which I wish to take issue with him.

The first is with respect to his opening sentence, 'You obviously do not know the Goan culture well'. This raises a series of questions: Who is qualified to know Goan culture well? One who has studied it as part of professional training? One who carries a passport identifying him/her as Goan? One who has lived in Goa for some time? (How long, and at what stage of their cognitive development?) Or one who is Goan by birth? To any scholar on the epistemology of the social sciences, it is likely to be the first. So Dr Figueirado's 'obviously' is hence not so obvious. As one who has stated that Dr Bastos does not know 'Goan culture well', he has given himself the position of a superior understanding of Goa culture. This is purely a linguistic conclusion. He needs to offer a basis for this superior understanding.

The second is the implication in the first sentence that there is a position, to be achieved, when one can say one understand's a culture well. Culture, as we know, is a dynamic thing, evolving with new meanings, infused with new interpretations, and imbued with multiple locations from which to comment. It is therefore relevant from which caste, class, community, geography one, therefore, speaks. Who can speak for Goan culture is thus an interesting question but one difficult to answer.

The third is his statement that he debates only with people he respects. I would be grateful for the list for then I would know if he would reply to this response.

The fourth is his dismissal of training in the protocols of social science research. This cannot be allowed to pass unless he is making the fundamental point, made by Edward Said among others, that such protocols are embedded in a Western episteme and hence not relevant to understanding a non-western society. Complex discussions on 'validity claims' take place in the philosophy of the social sciences and training programmes on research methods are a core part of study for a research degree. So it is unacceptable for Dr Figueiredo to dismiss training in the protocols of social science research as being irrelevant to the debate on validity claims. That is why we do not consider shamans as equivalent to trained psychiatrists.

The fifth is his statement that he 'believes in data'. He would know that data does not exist by itself. It is framed by theory, and theory is constructed. So data is theory infected (to use a medical terminology) and must be recognised as such. Bastos has a theory of Empire. What is his?

I hope this allows us to return to scholarly exchanges sans offence.

Best,

Peter.r

[JOHN DE FIGUEIREDO]

To; Dr. Cristiana Bastos

Dear Cristiana,

I guess my latest message to you deserves further elaboration. What I meant to say is this:

1. On the basis of what you wrote it appears that you may not know that in the particular social sub-group and in the particular sub-culture where I grew up in Goa, being a gentleman and insulting anyone, particularly a lady, are incompatible. So I will repeat what I said over and over:  Nothing in this series of posts should be construed as personal animosity against you which I have none. I disagree with some of your opinions and interpretations, but I respect you as a researcher, and I am glad I had an opportunity to have this conversation with you about a topic of mutual interest.

2. Before I decide if I am going to have a debate/conversation about a topic with a person, I ask myself three questions: (a) Do I have expertise on this topic?; (b) Do I know this person from her/his publications/presentations?; and (c) Do I respect this person from her/his publications/presentations? If the answer to these three questions is “yes”, I proceed with the debate/conversation. In your case, the answer was “yes” to all three questions. Obviously this is a subjective decision.

2. I do not believe I “teared your work apart”. I repeat what I previously stated. I agree with you on some things, disagree on other things.  I documented extensively on issues about which I disagree with you and presented both the data and the reasoning that led to my disagreement. (For example, your statement that graduates of Escola Médica could not teach in their own School, when there is abundant evidence that they could and did it well, and I presented some of that evidence.) I could have easily said that labeling Goan doctors who risked and sacrificed their health and their lives as “Doctors for the Empire” and “colonial doctors” and calling their School a “subaltern center” are insults, but I did not say they are insults because I do not believe you meant those labels to be insults. I think they are based on a conceptual framework that is inapplicable to the events we are discussing and I explained why I think it is inapplicable. Every time I disagreed with you, I explained and documented the reason. For the most part I used the same sources you used.

3. What is my theory? My conceptual framework (I would not call it a theory) is that the events that took place in Goa during the Constitutional Monarchy and the First Republic are a unique phenomenon and cannot be explained in terms of theories borrowed from other authors who attempted to explain the interactions with Europeans in other societies. For lack of a better expression, I called it the “Goan exceptionalism”. What I mean by this and why I said this was also explained in detail in one of my previous posts and I do not believe I need to repeat it here.

4. The issue of training is more complicated. Time and again we have examples of individuals who made major contributions with hardly any training. As far as I know, Charles Boxer never had any formal training in history. Piaget’s training was in zoology, not psychology. Erik Erickson did not have any training more than a high school diploma. Jerome D. Frank argued that the active ingredients of persuasion and healing are the same, whether it is psychotherapy done by psychiatrists or interventions done by shamans. At any rate, you do not know what my training was in social sciences because I never told you. If you feel that my training or lack of training affected my reasoning and conclusions, I would like to know how that happened, and I will do the same to you. Given that our times are precious, my preference, however, is that we stick to the issues rather than discussing each other’s trainings.

Best wishes,

John

[Trichur, Raghu S]

Thank you Peter for the interruption statement.

Wishing all a very productive, peaceful and just 2024.

rt

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 1, 2024, at 10:10 AM, Peter de Souza <peterde...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAOWg_2aZdkkfXan96mNR-5wetMENSikqeM%2B4EiYCFH7k5QPi%2BQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Edgar Valles]

As a matter of fact, the idea of a Comunidade Lusófona was very advanced. 

The Portuguese government considered the colonies as an integral part of its territory. The Comunidade Lusófona would be the first step for the independence of the colonies.As it was a crime against the nation to openly defend the independence of the colonies, this was a way of struggling against the regime.

 We cannot see the past with the eyes of the present...

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[John de Figueiredo]

Dear Dr. Souza,

Thank you for your message. I do not claim superior understanding of anything and have already clarified my message to Dr. Bastos.

Sincerely,

John M. de Figueiredo 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 1, 2024, at 1:09 PM, Peter de Souza <peterde...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAOWg_2aZdkkfXan96mNR-5wetMENSikqeM%2B4EiYCFH7k5QPi%2BQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Peter de Souza]

Dear Dr Figueiredo

Thank you for your kind mail. I read with interest, and considerable profit, your thoughtful response to Dr Bastos. Your last point about training, and the illustrations you have offered of Piaget, Erikson and others, certainly pushes the envelope further and it would be useful to discuss it more.

Best

Peter.r

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