Mervyn Maciel (Oral Histories Project)

[Selma Cardoso]

Histories of British-Goans project features Mervyn Maciel, author of Bwana Karani, in a 10 minute video clip. This is a wonderful historic journey beautifully documented with family photographs taking us back in time to 1929 and through to colonial Kenya in the 1950s. Mervyn talks about life in the remote outposts of Turkana, the Northern Frontier District, of Africa tribes and sweltering heat. Also provides an insight into the life of a District Clerk in East Africa. (Partial nudity in some photographs).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0IpudNHN94&feature=youtu.be

 

To view other videos you may have missed visit:

 http://www.britishgoanproject.com/

 

Create audiences for our community project by sharing this link.

 

Best wishes,

selma carvalho

[Ben Antao]

Dear Selma:

 

This is a valuable historical project you’re conducting to record the oral histories of Goans in East Africa.

 

Mervyn has a contented voice of one who has lived life with probity. He had sent me his memoir Bwana Karani in 1992, which was a revelation to me of how my fellow Goans lived in the often barren, sunbaked bush country of British colonial East Africa. That he and his family survived to tell his story is of historical importance in itself.

 

Asante sana, Memsahib for giving us this slice of life.

 

Ben  

[Nazareth, Peter]

Dear Selma,

I have just watched/listened to your interview.  Very, very good and moving. 

I have a copy of Mervyn's book, which I read nearly twenty years ago and will re-read in the near future.

There are connections between his civil service experience in Kenya and that of Goans in Uganda, but there are differences too.  It was the same system in place, but I have the impression it was less rigid in Uganda.

When I worked in the Ministry of Finance, it was after Independence and I was on the A scale and was involved in policy matters: making and implementing policy, foreign aid, government and parastatal projects, etc.  The system left by the British was very good for implementing British interests but now there had to be constant changes and improvisations.  Under the British system, one was not supposed to write anything connected to the government but it was generally known I was a writer and nobody seemed to mind my doing my own writing.  When my novel "In a Brown Mantle" came out, the Attorney General looked into the office of one of his officers, found me there discussing something with the officer, and said to me, "Hey, I must get your novel!  Gaiger [an English officer] said, 'This man may look like a hippie but he has got brains."

I would like to add one thing to what Mervyn said about the word "Mzee".  It is not only someone old but also a term of respect.  It is assumed that you are old and therefore wise [whereas in the west, it is sometimes assumed that you are old and therefore foolish].

Best.

Peter

---

From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Ben Antao [ben....@rogers.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 6:26 AM
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Mervyn Maciel (Oral Histories Project)

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[Selma C]

Thank you Ben for your encouraging words. we have already recorded over 20 hours of oral history and hope to archive at the British library about 50 hours of recorded oral history which belongs to east African goans. This year, my book and the project combined, mark 4 years or archival and field research for me in east African Goan history. Time to find my self a mentor and do a phd I think. Mental note to myself: be nice to alito :-)

Warm regards,

Selma

Sent from my iPad

--

[Mervyn & Elsie Maciel]

Dear Selma,

I am very grateful to Ben and Peter for their positive feedback. This
is very encouraging.
Peter is quite right when he says that the word "Mzee" is used as a term of
respect, more in reference to a Sage rather than a fool as the West
perceives the elderly.
Kenyatta was often referred to as 'Mzee Jomo Kenyatta'.
Speaking personally, I feel we Goans should be ever grateful that you, a Goan
who has never set foot on East African soil - have,along with a few
others, spear-headed this Oral History project; else, a very
important and interesting slice of
our history would be lost forever.
Asante sana Mama!

Mervyn

[Selma C]

Thank you Peter. Mervyn was an excellent interviewee. You are right of course in saying the Uganda experience is different from that of Kenya. In fact the experience of Tanzania goans is altogether different once again. I would say, there was no universal east African Goan experience, just a nebulous grouping by us to create a loose identity. Within Kenya, itself experience differs widely between Mombasa, Nairobi, kisumu, Nakuru and then of course real remote outposts like Turkana. I can even go so far as to say experiences within Nairobi would differ if you were a tailor living in Eastleigh and a doctor living in one of its posher areas. The very context of social relationships and how they interacted with the dynamics colonialism presented them seems to be different and shaped very much by economics. This is something for more hardened academics to pursue.

 There were of course factors which were similar in the same way the British administration in India shaped a homogenised national ethos however tenuous...the club and the civil service will be the enduring unifying factor and legacy.

Warm regards as usual,

Selma

Sent from my iPad

[Selma C]

Dear mervyn,
I believe in Africa there is a saying that when a man dies, a whole library is burnt down. Yesterday I got the very sad news that one of my interviewees had passed away. I felt like a library had been raided. His family had moved from Goa to Karachi and then to east africa. A lot of goans from east Africa came from Karachi, a link not properly investigated. I was glad a little part of this mans history will now be preserved forever.
I have finally persuaded hubby, that we must make that long awaited trip to Africa later this year.

When professor armando menezes finally visited England, he said it all felt like a sort of homecoming. I suspect it will be the same for me. In Goa, my mothers family is called afrikaraghe, in honour of my grandfather. Africa has been in my conscious living memory as far as I can recall and I owe a great thanks to uk east African goans who teach me so much about it every day.
Gosh we are all getting so emotional. Mervyn you have made us all emotional.
Warm regards,
Selma

Sent from my iPad

[Mervyn & Elsie Maciel]

True Selma, once you've been in Africa, it is very difficult to get that
continent out of your blood or shake the African dust off your feet.
It has become so much a part of our lives,
and thankfully, I still have many friends among the Africans in the
Northern Frontier who still keep in touch and update me on peoples
and places I spent so much of my early life with.
Just been looking at some of the photos you've recently put out
on the net. The one showing Elsie and our 2 sons and the
accompanying narration show my surname wrong spelt as "MaciAl
instead of MaciEl. Any chance of correcting this> No problem if it
is too much trouble.
I hope you and Savio WILL make the trip to Africa. Things have
changed, but the ordinary folk(the 'wanainchi' as they are known in
Swahili - are still very warm and welcoming and, despite their poverty, always
smiling. Wherever you go, you will be greeted with a smile and a
lively greeting, "Jambo, Habari?(literally translated - Hello, what's the
news, or better still, how do you do?)
So do work on this trip.
Warm regards.

Mervyn

BTW. Will my interview go out on Goan Voice(UK) too?

[B MENEZES]

Hi Selma,
These are great interviews, and especially when one such as Mervyn's comes across clear and articulate and factual. Please advise (1) how people both, in the the UK,  and elsewhere (Canada, Australia, Kenya, Goa, etc) can access the un-released part of each interviews?
(2) if there can be or will be, a recommended 'reading list' of Goan-related books (Goan Diaspora, Bwana Karani, Just Matata, among others) which will greatly enhance the value of these recorded histories;
and (3) Would your OH Project funds allow for production of CDs with these recordings that could be purchased by 'aficionados' of this genre?

Finally, please visit East Africa when you can as Mervyn suggests. Much has changed, but it will put much of your future work within a broader context.
Warm regards,



Braz Menezes
Author: Just Matata - Sin, Saints and Settlers
http://www.matatatrilogy.com

> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 08:58:40 +0100
> Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Mervyn Maciel (Oral Histories Project)
> From: mervynels.w...@gmail.com
> To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

[Selma Cardoso]

Hi Braz,

Thank you for your encouraging words. In response to your queries:

 

a)People in the UK will be able to access the entire interview when it comes into the public domain with the British Library. By then it will be vetted and if necessary parts of it blocked to the public, if they leave the Goan Association UK open to law suits.

b) I'm not sure at this point if there will be a recommended reading list, if there is it will be at the time of publication and will have to be exhaustive to include the work of heavyweights in the area such as Dr Teresa Alburquerque, Dr Stella Mascarenhas-Keynes, Kruper, Donna Nelson and my colleague in this project Cliff Pereira.

c) CDs of the final documentary maybe made available by the Goan Association UK.

 

There is one point though, being clear and articulate is not a criteria for our interviewee selection. Many times people, especially for the lower economic sections of Goan society in East Africa, are not articulate and stumble and stutter, but their stories of caste discrimination etc, are just as important. At least let them have a say now, 60 years after the fact, then be discriminated against all over again. Unfortunately, we have had other East African Goans within the community make fun of these participants and indeed call them up to vilify them for exposing such things. Which is sad really.

 

Take care,

selma

[B MENEZES]

Hi Selma,
Thank you and your colleagues, Eddie Rodrigues and Cliff Pereira for taking the initiative on this very worthwhile project. Your answers to my queries are OK.
However I was a bit startled by your comment that ...'being clear and articulate is not a criteria for our interviewee selection. Many times people, especially for the lower economic sections of Goan society in East Africa, are not articulate and stumble and stutter, but their stories of caste discrimination etc, are just as important. At least let them have a say now, 60 years after the fact, then be discriminated against all over again...'

I do not share your view that the less privileged of Goan society are less articulate or more prone to stuttering or stumbling. It is more likely an issue of the interviewee's state of health or age, irrespective of social class. I believe however, from my personal experience, that East African Goan society especially in the main urban centres, for much of the six decades in question, co-existed in a self-imposed fog of hypocrisy vis a vis caste and class,  and many even harboured a racial bias against the black man. It will be interesting to hear what your future cohort of interviewees have to say about this. Perhaps you can help flush this out further?
Cheers,

Braz Menezes

Author: Just Matata - Sin, Saints and Settlers
http://www.matatatrilogy.com

---

Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:50:36 +0100
From: lescar...@yahoo.com

Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Mervyn Maciel (Oral Histories Project)

To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

[Selma Cardoso]

Dear Braz,

I can tell you what every Goan from the townships says about their interactions with Black Africans..."they were our servants." Now, when we move into the interiors of Africa, the interactions become a little more intimate, organic and favourable.

 

It will be quite a task formulating a cohesive narrative from the output of our interviews but its a task I'm looking forward to.

 

Just one tiny clarification and I'm making this only because this is public expenditure and because we have some eminent UK Goans on this list. Only Cliff and I are colleagues. Eddie is an absolute treasure and invaluable to the project, but his services are voluntary. I've often asked Eddie to pen a book about East Africa. He is a walking library of information beside actually housing the largest collection of Goa related books in the UK.

 

Take care,

selma

From: B MENEZES <bmen...@sympatico.ca>
To: goa-book-club <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 26 March 2012, 3:01
Subject: RE: [GOABOOKCLUB] Mervyn Maciel (Oral Histories Project)

Hi Selma,

Thank you and your colleagues, Eddie Rodrigues and Cliff Pereira for taking the initiative on this very worthwhile project. Your answers to my queries are OK.
However I was a bit startled by your comment that ...'

being clear and articulate is not a criteria for our interviewee selection. Many times people, especially for the lower economic sections of Goan society in East Africa, are not articulate and stumble and stutter, but their stories of caste discrimination etc, are just as important. At least let them have a say now, 60 years after the fact, then be discriminated against all over again...'

I do not share your view that the less privileged of Goan society are less articulate or more prone to stuttering or stumbling. It is more likely an issue of the interviewee's state of health or age, irrespective of social class. I believe however, from my personal experience, that East African Goan society especially in the main urban centres, for much of the six decades in question, co-existed in a self-imposed fog of hypocrisy vis a vis caste and class,  and many even harboured a racial bias against the black man. It will be interesting to hear what your future cohort of interviewees have to say about this. Perhaps you can help flush this out further?
Cheers,

Braz Menezes

Author: Just Matata - Sin, Saints and Settlers
http://www.matatatrilogy.com

[Cliff Pereira]

Dear Mr. Menezes,

Our project is embedded in the notion that memories of experiences, negative and positive, are part of our heritage. Oral history is of course prone to stereotypic biasness, romance, myth and the interviewees individual perspective. Two interviewees will have differing perspectives and indeed ways of delivery (i.e. articulation). We cannot interview hundreds of people, but we can interview a diverse group of East African Goans and get some idea of "community" perspectives.

As researcher on this project, I can say that we have already seen differences in opinion based on age, which reflects the changing generational view points of Goans in East Africa over time. There was a time when East Africa was a place to earn money to be remitted back in Goa (as in the Gulf at present). East Africa was not a place to put down roots, rather it was a route to secure retirement in Goa. Our interviews suggest that by the 1950's that had changed, with more intermarriage in East Africa and therefore a considerable psychological change in Goans of that generation. The road to Independence and the British-led propaganda have naturally impacted our community, and this is also evident in our recordings. Then there is the post independence Africanisation policy - which is basically nothing more than ethnic-cleansing (especially in the case of Uganda and Malawi). How people perceived and coped with these huge social changes is shown by our testimonies to vary from one country to another, and in the case of Kenya, from the coast to the Highlands, and then from the bigger towns and cities to the "districts". The "fog of hypocrisy" that you mention did exist, but it is not the full story, and did not happen throughout East Africa. Also where it did occur (in the larger urban settings) it was staged in a segregated society, where Goans themselves were to large extent disenfranchised.

As our community moved to Canada, the USA, Britain and Australia, the saga of our interim in East Africa, has been ignored and brushed aside, by our positivity and eagerness to find and make new homes and be a success. This has caused something of an identity crisis between generations who identify with Goa, East Africa and our new homes. In part we have caused this crisis, by not looking back to our massive contributions, and some of our failings in East Africa. For a whole generation born, educated and married in East Africa, memories are painful, for they represent loss, displacement. Goan youth often therefore feel they have to make a choice in identity. Post independence East Africa is not going to document the story of a tiny minority who are now esitmate at less than 3000. India is not particularly interested in our story, and Portugal barely recognises the English-speaking East African Goan. So if we don't study, record and write our story, nobody else will do it.

The fact is that, as Goans we had to leave one declining global empire (of which Goa was once an undisputed Eastern capital) and move into another that was nearing its zenith. - This is where the British-Goan story comes into its own. For it provides a factual narrative that sits, comfortably within our new lands - after all Canada and Australia were also part of the British Empire, and yet allows us to still be of Goan heritage. In short we have multiple heritages that make us truely global citizens.

Many thanks for your support for our project.

Cliff Pereira        

www.clifford.pereira.com

---

From: bmen...@sympatico.ca
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

Subject: RE: [GOABOOKCLUB] Mervyn Maciel (Oral Histories Project)

Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:01:18 -0400

[Tony Luis]

Dear Braz,  It was good to attend the launch of your book at the Goa Chitra in Goa recently and to have met you and take back an autographed book to the UK.  The Q and A at your launch brought out some of the sentiments on how the Africans reacted with Goans quite well I share your sentiments below.... I am not an interviewee or do not know who is on the list but I think that those who stumble or stutter is because they are having to recollect stories from 40 or 50 years ago and not because of their socio economic class or status. It may help if the interviewer adopts a different style or approach to suit the person being interviewed.     Kind Regards, Tony Luis --- On Mon, 26/3/12, B MENEZES <bmen...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

[Selma Cardoso]

Dear Tony and Braz,

I didn't want to comment further on this but I will now.

 

If Goa favoured Bamons and Chardos in the early 20th century, so did East Africa. The migration from upper-caste enclaves such as Saligao, Parra, Porvorim, Aldona, quickly established the same hierarchy in East Africa. They might have been impoverished but by no means were they disadvantaged in terms of an education. They were tall, fair, good-looking, patrician, proficient in Portuguese with moderate to adequate English skills. Once there, successive generations had no problems in becoming almost entirely European in mannerism, dress and speech. You might wonder why I have mentioned fair and good-looking on my list. It is something that has been overlooked in our understanding of exactly why Goans adapted themselves so well to life in East Africa. We are talking about human societies, particularly in an environment shaped by race. Their very Caucasian bearing, I believe, put them at an advantage. (very similar to how Caucasian Latinos in America are at an advantage as compared to indigenous Latinos).

 

The lower socio-economic Goan continued to be disadvantaged, further accentuated by a caste system which Goans seem to have polished into a fine art in East Africa. Even though the Dr Ribeiro's school did in some small measure level the playing field, other factors operated (including the specific areas they lived in) to segregate them from upper-caste Goans. All this meant, their progress in East Africa continued at a much slower pace than that of upper-caste Goans.

 

It is a fact -not just of East African Goans but indeed universally- that economics impacts language. There is a difference between age-impaired delivery and that which is influenced by education and economics.

 

Infact, one can see almost the same situation and pattern repeating itself now with respect to the new arrival of Goans from Swindon.

 

Now, I have possibly said several more politically incorrect things. What the hey? I love to commit serial forum hara-kiri :-)

 

Take care,

selma

From: Tony Luis <dalbo...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, 26 March 2012, 11:19
Subject: RE: [GOABOOKCLUB] Mervyn Maciel (Oral Histories Project)

Dear Braz,  It was good to attend the launch of your book at the Goa Chitra in Goa recently and to have met you and take back an autographed book to the UK.  The Q and A at your launch brought out some of the sentiments on how the Africans reacted with Goans quite well I share your sentiments below.... I am not an interviewee or do not know who is on the list but I think that those who stumble or stutter is because they are having to recollect stories from 40 or 50 years ago and not because of their socio economic class or status. It may help if the interviewer adopts a different style or approach to suit the person being interviewed.    Kind Regards,

Tony Luis--- On Mon, 26/3/12, B MENEZES <bmen...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

From: B MENEZES <bmen...@sympatico.ca> Subject: RE: [GOABOOKCLUB] Mervyn Maciel (Oral Histories Project) To: "goa-book-club" <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com> Date: Monday, 26 March, 2012, 3:01

Hi Selma, Thank you and your colleagues, Eddie Rodrigues and Cliff Pereira for taking the initiative on this very worthwhile project. Your answers to my queries are OK. However I was a bit startled by your comment that ...'being clear and articulate is not a criteria for our interviewee selection. Many times people, especially for the lower economic sections of Goan society in East Africa, are not articulate and stumble and stutter, but their stories of caste discrimination etc, are just as important. At least let them have a say now, 60 years after the fact, then be discriminated against all over again...' I do not share your view that the less privileged of Goan society are less articulate or more prone to stuttering or stumbling. It is more likely an issue of the interviewee's state of health or age, irrespective of social class. I believe however, from my personal experience, that East African Goan society especially in the main urban centres, for much of the six decades in question, co-existed in a self-imposed fog of hypocrisy vis a vis caste and class,  and many even harboured a racial bias against the black man. It will be interesting to hear what your future cohort of interviewees have to say about this. Perhaps you can help flush this out further? Cheers, Braz Menezes

Author: Just Matata - Sin, Saints and Settlershttp://www.matatatrilogy.com Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:50:36 +0100From: lescar...@yahoo.comSubject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Mervyn Maciel (Oral Histories Project)To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

Hi Braz, Thank you for your encouraging words. In response to your queries:   a)People in the UK will be able to access the entire interview when it comes into the public domain with the British Library. By then it will be vetted and if necessary parts of it blocked to the public, if they leave the Goan Association UK open to law suits. b) I'm not sure at this point if there will be a recommended reading list, if there is it will be at the time of publication and will have to be exhaustive to include the work of heavyweights in the area such as Dr Teresa Alburquerque, Dr Stella Mascarenhas-Keynes, Kruper, Donna Nelson and my colleague in this project Cliff Pereira. c) CDs of the final documentary maybe made available by the Goan Association UK.   There is one point though, being clear and articulate is not a criteria for our interviewee selection. Many times people, especially for the lower economic sections of Goan society in East Africa, are not articulate and stumble and stutter, but their stories of caste discrimination etc, are just as important. At least let them have a say now, 60 years after the fact, then be discriminated against all over again. Unfortunately, we have had other East African Goans within the community make fun of these participants and indeed call them up to vilify them for exposing such things. Which is sad really.   Take care, selma

From: B MENEZES <bmen...@sympatico.ca> To: goa-book-club <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sunday, 25 March 2012, 18:16 Subject: RE: [GOABOOKCLUB] Mervyn Maciel (Oral Histories Project)

Hi Selma, These are great interviews, and especially when one such as Mervyn's comes across clear and articulate and factual. Please advise (1) how people both, in the the UK,  and elsewhere (Canada, Australia, Kenya, Goa, etc) can access the un-released part of each interviews? (2) if there can be or will be, a recommended 'reading list' of Goan-related books (Goan Diaspora, Bwana Karani, Just Matata, among others) which will greatly enhance the value of these recorded histories; and (3) Would your OH Project funds allow for production of CDs with these recordings that could be purchased by 'aficionados' of this genre? Finally, please visit East Africa when you can as Mervyn suggests. Much has changed, but it will put much of your future work within a broader context. Warm regards,

Braz MenezesAuthor: Just Matata - Sin, Saints and Settlershttp://www.matatatrilogy.com

> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 08:58:40 +0100> Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Mervyn Maciel (Oral Histories Project)> From: mervynels.w...@gmail.com> To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com> > True Selma, once you've been in Africa, it is very difficult to get that> continent out of your blood or shake the African dust off your feet.> It has become so much a part of our lives,> and thankfully, I still have many friends among the Africans in the> Northern Frontier who still keep in touch and update me on peoples> and places I spent so much of my early life with.> Just been looking at some of the photos you've recently put out> on the net. The one showing Elsie and our 2 sons and the> accompanying narration show my surname wrong spelt as "MaciAl> instead of MaciEl. Any chance of correcting this> No problem if it> is too much trouble.> I hope you and Savio WILL make the trip to Africa. Things have> changed, but the ordinary folk(the 'wanainchi' as they are known in> Swahili - are still very warm and welcoming and, despite their poverty, always> smiling. Wherever you go, you will be greeted with a smile and a> lively greeting, "Jambo, Habari?(literally translated - Hello, what's the> news, or better still, how do you do?)> So do work on this trip.> Warm regards.> > > Mervyn> > BTW. Will my interview go out on Goan Voice(UK) too?> > On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Selma C <lescar...@yahoo.com> wrote:> > Dear mervyn,> > I believe in Africa there is a saying that when a man dies, a whole library is burnt down. Yesterday I got the very sad news that one of my interviewees had passed away. I felt like a library had been raided. His family had moved from Goa to Karachi and then to east africa. A lot of goans from east Africa came from Karachi, a link not properly investigated. I was glad a little part of this mans history will now be preserved forever.> > I have finally persuaded hubby, that we must make  that long awaited trip to Africa later this year.> >> > When professor armando menezes finally visited England, he said it all felt like a sort of homecoming. I suspect it will be the same for me. In Goa, my mothers family is called afrikaraghe, in honour of my grandfather. Africa has been in my conscious living memory as far as I can recall and I owe a great thanks to uk east African goans who teach me so much about it every day.> > Gosh we are all getting so emotional. Mervyn you have made us all emotional.> > Warm regards,> > Selma> >> > Sent from my iPad> >> > On 24 Mar 2012, at 17:13, "Mervyn & Elsie Maciel" <mervynels.w...@gmail.com> wrote:> >> >> Dear Selma,> >>> >> I am very grateful to Ben and Peter for their positive feedback. This> >> is very encouraging.> >> Peter is quite right when he says that the word "Mzee" is used as a term of> >> respect, more in reference to a Sage rather than a fool as the West> >> perceives the elderly.> >> Kenyatta was often referred to as 'Mzee Jomo Kenyatta'.> >>  Speaking personally, I feel we Goans should be ever grateful that you, a Goan> >> who has never set foot on East African soil - have,along with a few> >> others,  spear-headed this Oral History project; else, a very> >> important and interesting slice of> >> our history would be lost forever.> >> Asante sana Mama!> >>> >>> >>> >> Mervyn> >>> >> On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Selma C <lescar...@yahoo.com> wrote:> >>> Thank you Ben for your encouraging words. we have already recorded over 20> >>> hours of oral history and hope to archive at the British library about 50> >>> hours of recorded oral history which belongs to east African goans. This> >>> year, my book and the project combined, mark 4 years or archival and field> >>> research for me in east African Goan history. Time to find my self a mentor> >>> and do a phd I think. Mental note to myself: be nice to alito :-)> >>>> >>> Warm regards,> >>> Selma> >>>> >>> Sent from my iPad> >>>> >>> On 24 Mar 2012, at 11:26, "Ben Antao" <ben....@rogers.com> wrote:> >>>> >>> Dear Selma:> >>>> >>> This is a valuable historical project you’re conducting to record the oral> >>> histories of Goans in East Africa.> >>>> >>> Mervyn has a contented voice of one who has lived life with probity. He had> >>> sent me his memoir Bwana Karani in 1992, which was a revelation to me of how> >>> my fellow Goans lived in the often barren, sunbaked bush country of British> >>> colonial East Africa. That he and his family survived to tell his story is> >>> of historical importance in itself.> >>>> >>> Asante sana, Memsahib for giving us this slice of life.> >>>> >>> Ben> >>>> >>>> >>> From: Selma Cardoso> >>> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 3:24 PM> >>> To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com> >>> Subject: [GOABOOKCLUB] Mervyn Maciel (Oral Histories Project)> >>>> >>> Histories of British-Goans project features Mervyn Maciel, author of Bwana> >>> Karani, in a 10 minute video clip. This is a wonderful historic journey> >>> beautifully documented with family photographs taking us back in time to> >>> 1929 and through to colonial Kenya in the 1950s. Mervyn talks about life in> >>> the remote outposts of Turkana, the Northern Frontier District, of Africa> >>> tribes and sweltering heat. Also provides an insight into the life of a> >>> District Clerk in East Africa. (Partial nudity in some photographs).> >>>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0IpudNHN94&feature=youtu.be> >>>> >>> To view other videos you may have missed visit:> >>>  http://www.britishgoanproject.com/> >>>> >>> Create audiences for our community project by sharing this link.> >>>> >>> Best wishes,> >>> selma carvalho> >>>> >>> --> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups> >>> "The Third Thursday Goa Book Club" group.> >>> To post to this group, send email to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com.> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to> >>> goa-book-clu...@googlegroups.com.> >>> For more options, visit this group at> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/goa-book-club?hl=en.> >>>> >>> --> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups> >>> "The Third Thursday Goa Book Club" group.> >>> To post to this group, send email to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com.> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to> >>> goa-book-clu...@googlegroups.com.> >>> For more options, visit this group at> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/goa-book-club?hl=en.> >>> >> --> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Third Thursday Goa Book Club" group.> >> To post to this group, send email to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com.> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to goa-book-clu...@googlegroups.com.> >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/goa-book-club?hl=en.> >>> >> > --> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Third Thursday Goa Book Club" group.> > To post to this group, send email to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com.> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to goa-book-clu...@googlegroups.com.> > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/goa-book-club?hl=en.> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Third Thursday Goa Book Club" group.> To post to this group, send email to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com.> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to goa-book-clu...@googlegroups.com.> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/goa-book-club?hl=en.>

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[Nazareth, Peter]

Selma,

The fairest Goans in Uganda were not Bamons or Chardos.  

Peter

---

From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Selma Cardoso [lescar...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 6:41 AM
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

[Nazareth, Peter]

Cliff,

I am referring to what you said as follows: "Then there is the post independence Africanisation policy - which is basically nothing more than ethnic-cleansing (especially in the case of Uganda and Malawi)."

"Ethnic cleansing" is normally used for the killing (genocide) of people of one race or tribe. 

In the case of Uganda, Amin was helped (put) into power by the British and the Israelis, for many reasons, some of which are presented in my novel The General is Up.  One of them is that President Obote was phasing out Asians who were British citizens at a rate higher than Heath was prepared to accept.  Non-citizen Asians were given work permits with deadlines.  One of the first things Amin did as soon as he came into power was to cancel the work permits, meaning non-Citizen Asians could stay.  This was to change eighteen months later, after Amin and his forces and his assassination squads had brutalized people of one tribe after another (the earliest being the Acholi and people of Lango).  Supposedly only non-citizen Asians had to leave, but Asians who claimed to be citizens of Uganda were asked to line up outside the Immigration office and have their papers checked: and mostly the papers were taken away so the person became stateless.  Then Amin announced that at a later stage, all Asians would have to leave.  After being criticized by President Nyerere and the student leader of Makerere, he backed down and said they could stay but he began to use psychological terror tactics to scare Asians into leaving--and this largely worked because many Asians left who did not have to do.

Meanwhile, Amin's Foreign Minister, Wanume Kibedi, who chaired the committee to facilitate the expulsion, was trying to find a way of quietly keeping most Asians behind.  Near the end, there were Asians who were teachers who were running away scared that they would be prevented from leaving.

Meanwhile, I knew Africans who wished they would be expelled so they could leave Uganda.

So it was a complicated things, not ethnic cleansing as far as Asians went (in my novel, you can see how Africans responded to what Amin said about Asians, called "East Indians" in the novel probably because someone edits the novel for an American audience, taken from real life) .

Why would Asians expect to be well treated by an army man who came into power through a coup when he was brutalizing Africans? 

As I said, this is complicated, but I have dealt with the Amin regime in much detail in my novels and non-fiction.

Peter

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From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Cliff Pereira [cliffj...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:21 AM

[B MENEZES]

Dear Cliff (please call me Braz),
I accept your arguments. Please understand my comments are intended to add value to what is an important project for the community.

By mid 20th century, there were indeed distinct generational viewpoints between the early immigrants (parents) and their E.African born children.
Both generations were indeed perhaps unconsciously, undergoing an identity crisis, which got steadily worse when within a two-year period in the the early 60s, both Goa (as a dream retirement destination) and Kenya (as a place to live forever) when new hard choices had to be made. Portugal was gone from Goa(bad news for some), and the British were leaving Kenya to an uncertain future.

It is not clear what you mean by intermarriage in the 50s. During much of this decade, the races were segregated (in Kenya at least). Which intermarriages are you referring to?

On the labeling of 'ethnic cleansing', i agrre with Peter. The term is not appropriate. Waht was taking place was in fact a straight forward "economic affirmative program' to try and start the re-leveling of the playing field between the immigrant Asian community, and the sons of the soil.

BTW, My Matata Trilogy will take us through these transformations in our thinking and lives. Please contact Mervyn Maciel. He still has some copies of Just Matata for sale.

Best regards,

Braz Menezes
Author: Just Matata - Sin, Saints and Settlers
http://www.matatatrilogy.com

---

From: cliffj...@hotmail.com

To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [GOABOOKCLUB] Mervyn Maciel (Oral Histories Project)

Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:21:46 +0100