Proud to speak my Mother Tongue

[Mervyn Maciel]

I'd just like to share a short article I'd written several years ago

PROUD TO SPEAK MY MOTHER TONGUE

There was a time, especially during the colonial era in Goa

and other parts of India, when many of our Goans would not be

seen talking in their own mother tongue; not that these individuals

couldn't speak the language. For them,  speaking in a foreign

tongue gave them that air of superiority(at least so they thought!).

They felt important. Speaking in Konkani was considered below their

dignity.  SHAME ON THEM!

  As a lover of Konkani myself and all that our culture embodies,

I find it difficult to gauge the motives of these "foreign" Goans.

The following verses(sadly, the only ones I can remember) - from

a poem composed during my school days by that well-known

Jesuit historian, the late Fr. Claude Saldanha, S.J. - seem to sum up

everything. Referring to these self styled foreigners as kalafirngis-

Black Europeans), this, in 1940, is what he wrote:

   'They are shy to talk sweet Konkani

    Because they think it's low,

    They rattle off in company

    A foreign tongue for show.

       The men put on some pantaloons

        And think they look quite fine,

        They hardly know - the good buffoons

         That borrowed plumes don't shine!

Melodious mandos -swaying songs

With all their hearts they hate

Which cannot swing the girls around

With arms at any rate.

       And so they say, 'the mando's dead'

       Not meant for cultured folk,

       But all their culture it is said

       Would not impress a bloke!

Konkani is such a sweet language, with greetings and

expressions not found in other foreign languages.

Take the daily salutation, for example  --

   'Deo boro dis diun(May God give you a good day)

or 'Deo bori rath diun(May God give you a good night).

And what of that nightly blessing from our Elders?

 'Deo bori rath amcam somestam di  Saiba etc(Lord,

give us a good night etc etc).

This last expression has certainly more meat  to it than the

plain 'Thank you'. Besides, all these also have one

thing in common - they embody Christian principles.

Far from being ashamed of our mother tongue, folk

songs and dances, let us make every effort to revive

and keep them going forever.

Future generations will thank us for this.

Mervyn Maciel

   

[augusto pinto]

Dear Mervyn, 

Nice to hear from you. 

The subject you bring up is a complex and controversial one. 

When you have the time do look at this link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_language

That link will give you one reason why nowadays I much prefer using the terms, first language or native language to mother tongue. But there's another reason: I once made a presentation on the subject of 'medium of instruction' at a refresher course for college teachers of English, where I was promoting the early use of English and one member of the audience got so agitated and emotional she started heckling me saying that the mother tongue is like mother's milk and that by rejecting the mother tongue it was like rejecting mother's milk. And that by rejecting mother's milk such people can only be sick people. 

To which I retorted that my mother hadn't breast-fed me but she had brought up on Nestle's milk. And as far as I was aware I was a reasonably healthy person who played table-tennis and badminton for college and chess for Goa. 

Now these assertions led to a bigger uproar and the free for all that ensued was worse than what happens on Arnab Goswami's Republic TV and the session finally ended in complete chaos. 

Now I don't deny that there have been scandals regarding Nestle's milk formulas - see - https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/nestles-infant-formula-scandal-2012-6?IR=T

But sometimes people take these mother metaphors too much to breast... er... heart. So it's first language or native speaker to me. 

Incidentally I went googling for Fr. Claude Saldanha S. J. and it seems that this Mangy was the founder of St. Paul's in Belgaum and he was a historian. The XCHR lecture hall is named after him. 

Best, 

Augusto 

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[Ilidio Borges]

Dear Mervyn,

 

Very interesting article and reminds me more of your parents and your brother Fr Joseph Maciel, S.J. I was from St Peter's church parish where Fr Maciel served and ehere I was also a student in St Stanislaus HS attached to the church. Fr Maciel, besides being a very articulate English prescher and well versed in Konkani also said the Sunday Konkani Mass too. He never failed to turn up at our village feast mass and social organised by the Salvador do Mundo Association in Mumbai. He once told me that your parents, while he was in boarding school  in Belgaum, insisted that he write the letters to them in Konkani thus instilling in him and his siblings the love and respect for Konkani and not surprisingly ensured his fluency and command over this warm language.

Regards,

Ilidio (Borges)

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[Eugene Correia]

That Fr. Claude Saldanha S.J. was a Mangy is news to me. As the late Dr. Teotonio de dsouza told me that the land for the Centre at zporvorim was donated by Fr. Saldanha.

Eugene

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[Mervyn Maciel]

Thanks Ilidio.

Yes, my brother(Joseph) was a great preacher both in English

and Konkani. 

I remember one occasion during our stay at a friend's in Tivim  some

years ago when he surprised the Mass goers by preaching in fluent

Konkani at the nearby chapel.

  As for his English sermons, even here in England, in my Sutton parish,

many still remember his 'rousing' sermons.!

Thanks again.

Mervyn

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[Mervyn Maciel]

Thanks Augusto for those interesting links.

I feel more comfortable with 'native language' and will

use this in future..

   I couldn't help laughing at the hell that ensued after

the reference to 'mother's milk'.   You should have

told the heckler that, like Johnny Walker, you are

still thriving on Nestle's milk!!

  Fr. Saldanha was a very popular teacher at

St. Paul's in Belgaum which my brothers nd I also

attended. His English was flawless and he was very

popular with the British troops then stationed in

Belgaum. I think they made him their honorary

chaplain. He was a good cricketer too.

  When he visited me following my operation

at the Asilio hospital in Mapuca many years ago,

he told me that we were distantly related.  I 

think he comes from Paitona(Salvador-do-Mundo)..

I remember visiting him at St. Britto's in  Mapuca too.

   Will Konkani survive in a fast-changing Goa??

Best wishes.

Mervyn

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[Edwin]

Dear Mervyn,

You brought up a great topic.

Most Goan Mumbaikars cannot speak Konkani. This is true also of most Mangaloreans. Why? It’s because of “low self esteem”. I hope I am not starting a controversy here. 

Most  older Goans shy away from speaking Konkani, in fact they act embarrassed. Contrast this with any other Indian community. They speak their mother tongue and English equally well. Unlike Mumbai Goans and Mangaloreans they have no fear that , if they speak in their mother tongue, they will not be fluent in English!!!

I find the young gen in Goa too are more comfortable in English!

Sad state of affairs. 

Regards,

Edwin Fernandes

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 2, 2020, at 4:07 PM, Mervyn Maciel <mervynels.w...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Eugene Correia]

Edwin's is spreading the net too wide. I one bornband raised in Bombay, I was not shy or afraid in talking Konkani with many near and dear ones. Also in a small circle of Goan friends.

Even on Canada I speak Konkani to family members and limited group of Goan friends. One or two are Goans from Africa and they are quite fluent in Konkani.

True, my nephew and nieces in Goa break into English I speak Konkani with them. The fear that Konkani will be a "dead" language is very much possible.

Goan kids who came to  Canada when small from Goa and Bombay have forgotten the language. It's true also of Canada-born children, most of them having grown up speaking English.

Eugene

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[Frederick Noronha]

People are not embarrassed to speak their "own" language. In many cases, they often cannot! This is specially true of those who have spent generations in migration. Or far from home, amidst vast seas of non-Konkani speakers.

Language loss (or language attrition) is for real. Goans have suffered it from an early stage. They have migrated earlier, and have to cope with using a smaller language. But I've seen Malayalees, Punjabis, Bengalis and others who have lived out of their home state for long also face the same problem.

Added to that, we have the politics of script, dialect, caste, community and region within the Konkani language. For some reason, Konkani speakers are like the French -- they will not tolerate even the slightest error, be quick to point it out, and possibly make fun of you as well! (By contrast, my little experience with say German or Portuguese, even Marathi to some extent, suggest that speakers of those languages tend to be very encouraging to anyone making the slightest effort to learn their language). 

Some priests may have also unwittingly contributed to creating what Dr/Fr W. R. Da Silva, former Head of Sociology at GU and himself a priest, would dismiss as "PadriBhas". An artificial, theologically-loaded language based on many Sanskrit root words, which even a humble Konkani-speaking Catholic from rural Goa would find extremely alien and tough to understand. The earlier Romi publications did a good job of making their texts easier to understand (by using a simple text, and English words in brackets as and when needed). 

Currently, one of the biggest (and little spoken about) experiments underway is to discredit some dialects (and scripts) of Konkani, in the name of standardisation. Alito interpreted the dislike of speaking "our" language as linked to "shame". It's that, and more. These realities have to be also encountered. 

Lot more is needed if Konkani isto survive and thrive, but most of all, a honesty in understanding the situation, and not getting swayed by simplistic stands. FN

Please also see:

Language attrition

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to navigationJump to search

See also: Second-language attrition

Language attrition is the process of losing a native or first, language. This process is generally caused by both isolation from speakers of the first language ("L1") and the acquisition and use of a second language ("L2"), which interferes with the correct production and comprehension of the first. Such interference from a second language is likely experienced to some extent by all bilinguals, but is most evident among speakers for whom a language other than their first has started to play an important, if not dominant, role in everyday life; these speakers are more likely to experience language attrition.^[1] It is common among immigrants that travel to countries where languages foreign to them are used.

There are several factors which affect the process. Frequent exposure and use of a particular language is often assumed adequate to maintain the native language system intact. However, research has often failed to confirm this prediction.^[2] A positive attitude towards the potentially attriting language or its speech community and motivation to retain the language are other factors which may reduce attrition. These factors are too difficult to confirm by research.^[3] However, a person's age can well predict the likelihood of attrition; children are demonstrably more likely to lose their first language than adults.^[4][5][6]

These factors are similar to those that affect second-language acquisition and the two processes are sometimes compared. However, the overall impact of these factors is far less than that for second language acquisition.

Language attrition results in a decrease of language proficiency. The current consensus is that it manifests itself first and most noticeably in speakers' vocabulary (in their lexical access and their mental lexicon),^[7][8] while grammatical and especially phonological representations appear more stable among speakers who emigrated after puberty.^[9]

Contents

• 1Study
• 2Manifestations
  • 2.1Lexical attrition
  • 2.2Grammatical attrition
  • 2.3Phonological attrition
• 3Studies and hypotheses
  • 3.1The regression hypothesis
• 4Factors
  • 4.1Age effect
    • 4.1.1Critical period hypothesis
    • 4.1.2L2 attrition
  • 4.2Age of arrival
  • 4.3Frequency of use
  • 4.4Motivation
• 5See also
• 6References
• 7Bibliography
• 8External links

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_attrition

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[augusto pinto]

Hmm... You're probably quite right. 

I went back and checked my googling and my first hit was http://www.daijiworld.com/chan/obituaryDisplay.aspx?obituaryID=9825

Looking at it again it seems that this is the Obituary of some other priest. 

As Ranjeet would say, "A thousand apologies!"

Augusto 

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[sandra lobo]

Dear Fred,

Many thanks for sharing these thought about the past and present evolution of the use of Konkani. It reminds me of the amount of harsh critics I read about the way it was written in newspapers published by migrants in Bombay, precisely for the lack of "purity", contamination of Portuguese/English, and lack of standardisation. And it is true that, with few exceptions, second or third generations of former migrants (can they still be considered migrants?) tend to adopt the language of the country where they are born and leave behind that of their ancestors. It also happens with the Portuguese migrant communities. If there is not a state politics to protect its learning and use near such communities such tendency becomes fatal.

best wishes,

Sandra

Sandra Ataíde Lobo

 

CHAM – Centro de Humanidades, FCSH/NOVA-UAC

https://giepcip.wordpress.com/

tmn. ++351 930690459

---

De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com> em nome de Frederick Noronha <frederic...@gmail.com>
Enviado: 3 de agosto de 2020 00:43
Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com>
Assunto: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Proud to speak my Mother Tongue

 

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[augusto pinto]

I'd just like to add to this discussion something that Teotonio de Souza, I think it was, among others, had said or written somewhere.

He pointed out that those Goans who were facimg awful economic circumstances in the later part of Portuguese rule had found that emigrating to British India or other British colonies was a source of salvation.

Now the best proposition for them there was to pose as Anglo-Indians for there was preferential treatment available to them compared to other communities. 

So they made efforts to do this in different ways, including changing surnames from Portuguese forms and making them more Anglicised. But the most important thing they did was to learn English as well as they could, and frequently, when it came to writing in particular, they were often better than the British themselves! (Incidentally many had superb handwriting as well. My father was one such person). 

However to achieve this, many, too many, chose to erase the use of Konkani quite deliberately in the then reasonable belief that the more one spoke English the better one became at it.

I can certainly say this was my own personal experience as while my parents spoke to each other in Konkani, they spoke to us in English and never in Konkani. This was done even by my mother who unlike my father had never studied English and spoke English with great difficulty. And in schools, those who were able to and did speak Konkani were fined or punished. 

Rather than shame, which was Mervyn's point I think it was economic considerations which led to Goans deliberately losing Konkani. The proficiency of the later generations in speaking Konkani became so poor that, again, rather than shame, it was their inability to express themselves adequately which led to their not using Konkani.

I think that nowadays evidence is increasingly arising that multilingualism is something that will benefit the child.

Augusto 

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[Jeanne Hromnik]

Interestingly, in the context of this discussion, A Bharati writes in The Asians in East Africa: Jayhind and Uhuru 

"The Goans of East Africa do not regard their ways as Indian ways. The other Asians reciprocate the Goans' feelings. Although two traditionally different and socially distant communities such as, say, the choti jat Gujarati Hindus and the Panjabi Muslims, view each other with the indifference that comes from cultural disparity, they would still regard one another as part of an Indian cultural body, but neither of them would include the Goans, not because they are Christian, but because they reject their Indian background altogether, going so far as to gradually renounce their Konkani in favor of English, thus opting out from the radical cultural criteria of identity in East Africa, the speaking of an Indian language at home."

This is in line with my experience of Kenya, where 'other' Indians spoke 'their' language at home and we did not. I don't think we rejected our cultural identity completely -- I remember the mando being danced and my parents, on occasion, speaking Konkani to each other (when communicating something private) and, of course, there was the food, which was a strong marker of cultural identity.

I agree with Bharati, however. Language is far stronger.

(Jeanne)

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[Ilidio Borges]

Edwin,

You are right that most Goan Mumbaikars cannot speak Konkani. However, I think the reason for them to shy away from speaking Konkani is not just due to them being embarrassed or creating a low self-esteem. What happened was, when the first generation of Goans (Bomoicars) like my parents arrived in Mumbai, they were conscious of the fact that they were not fluent in English and realised that they had to thrive in a place where education and jobs required a good command of English. Thus, when their children started schooling or even speaking, they stopped conversing at home in Konkani even if they were doing so earlier with an aim to speed up their children's English learning curve and English accent . Further, you and I as children and students, living in a cosmopolitan Bandra, spoke in English with all our mates as they came from homes with different mother tongues, as also the prayers and instructions to prepare for First Communion were conducted in English, transactions with shops were in languages other than Konkani. Contrast this to Bomoicars residing in Dhobi Talao where their milieu was largely Konkani and as a result their children are quite comfortable in Konkani. I have also observed that this phenomenon is prevalent more in Catholic homes while our Goan Hindu brethren are quite comfortable with Konkani probably because their lifestyle (food dishes, rituals, clothes, etc)  is more Konkan based than Western. 

Interestingly, we have been using K for Konkani rather than C (for Concani  though it is supposed to be the Konkani spelling).

Regards,

Ilidio Borges

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[Eugene Correia]

The shame aspect of speaking Konkani was because the upper-class Goans considered it to be a "kitchen language". These people spoke with a clipped tongue to their cooks, butlers and ayahs.

The tiatr was popularized by the Kuddwallas. It was in these kudds that Konkani remained entrenched. More than anywhere else in Bombay, Konkani resided in Jer Mahal and the gullies (bylanes) of Dhobitalao. 

 This residential hotspot of Goans gave rise to the sleazy and rude swearwords, "Mai Zxxx Dhobitalao." 

I recently heard a song, Mai De Dhobitalao, on UTube.

Dhobitalao was also responsible for corrupting the language from tongues soaked in country liquor sold in haddas (dens) which pockmarked the landscape of this notorious as well as rambunctious part of the city. 

Eugene

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[augusto pinto]

If I may take a little detour from the main conversation, Ilidio Borges says: "Interestingly, we have been using K for Konkani rather than C (for Concani  though it is supposed to be the Konkani spelling)."

'Concani' was the spelling in the Roman script during the Portuguese era. During that time the letters 'k' 'w' and 'y' were not used in Portuguese. The 'k' sound was represented by 'c'. The 's' sound was represented by 'ç'. After Independence, when the English alphabet gained ascendancy, 'Konkani' or as some insist 'Konknni' became the more standard spellings in the Romi script.

However there was another reason for abandoning the spelling 'Concani'. During the Language controversies that used to rage in Goa, some of the Devanagari script proponents (mostly upper caste Hindus) used to pour scorn upon the Konkani dialect which the Christians used by using the word 'Concani' for it. I particularly remember P. P. Shirodkar doing this quite regularly insinuating that the dialect of the Christians was a bastardised version which was influenced by Portuguese. (incidentally I never could figure out whether the P.P.  was the freedom fighter Pandurang Purshottam Shirodkar, first Speaker of the Goa Assembly or his son Dr. Prakashchandra Pandurang who was the director of archives - most probably the latter was the one who wrote, but he left it unclear because he was in government service and so it suited him to suggest that it was his father's views that were being expressed.) 

Incidentally after 1990 'k, w, and y' did come back after the Portuguese Language Orthographic Agreement.

Augusto

 

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[Gilbert Lawrence]

Talking of pride and embarrassment, I have to recount this story.

After I was in the USA for a few years, I returned to Goa for a holiday.  My dad took me to visit this elderly lady in Mapuca for whom he had a high regard.  She lived in a stately home and was happy to see my dad and me.  We were invited to her living room that got an airing after a long time.  The two of them started talking in Portuguese.  I sat in silence. And then took their leave to see some of the old memorabilia, family heirlooms, and photographs displayed on the walls. I retuned back to my seat.

The lady figured that I could not speak Portuguese, presumed I only spoke Konkani; and felt I was the black sheep of the family.  Not expecting much of an answer, hesitatingly she asked my dad what I did, expecting a sob story.

On finding what I did, the lady jumped off her seat and fell at my feet apologizing profusely for treating me with disregard for the last hour. 

Regards,  GL

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[augusto pinto]

I would add to what Eugene says by saying that this 'shame' aspect was a feature of linguistic behaviour of Goa itself, the Portuguese-speaking elite being the culprits here. 

This was initially because the Portuguese had passed this ridiculous law ordering the residents of Goa to use Portuguese. The only people who could comply at least to some extent were the elite, and I'm sure many here will have read Jacob and Dulce which hilariously mocks the pretentiousness of some of them, although of course there were those who were masters of the language and Paul Melo e Castro has done a fine job in collecting and translating their work. 

So far most of the people who we were talking about earlier in this thread were middle classes in the British empire many of whom didn't have servants and when they did, the servants were not Goans so the question of kitchen language does not arise. 

If I may comment on another observation by Eugene: on Dhobitalao and the 'corrupting of language by absorbing tongues in country liquor dens' I'd like to say something which many might find surprising: from the point of view of the science of linguistics, such absorbing of other tongues is not 'corruption' or 'bastardisation' but actually the enrichment of language. I had made a similar point when reviewing Prof. Lourdino Rodrigues's books on the Konkani language where he disapproves of Konkani absorbing Portuguese influences. 

In fact those who believe in this false idea of bastardisation, must realise that in that case the most bastardised languages in the world are also the ones with the biggest vocabularies, starting with English: these languages have fucked and raped and robbed every other language in sight to become the rich and powerful languages they are today. 

Augusto 

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[Frederick Noronha]

Sandra, your points lead me to want to write more...

Lack of "purity" and contamination, to my mind, is more a form of class-caste hegemony, and a power-play more intended to push one form of the language over all its existing diversities.

When it comes to migration, what I had in mind was something like my family's own experience. Using Goa as a base, but never being continually there. On both paternal and maternal sides, my grandfather and two grand-uncles went to work in Abadan, Persia (now Iran) while the family lore is that a grand-uncle never returned from Jerusalem after World War I (don't know how true). My grandmum was in Bombay and the US since the 1940s and never returned. My maternal grandparents died early in Hubli-Belgaum. My parents returned in their while in their 30s from Brazil. So, what language would be spoken and learnt amidst such migration? This level of migration is not untypical, especially in the Old Conquest and Catholic areas.

As far as language loss ("attrition") goes, when it comes to Indians who belong to larger language groups, they most certainly retain a link to the spoken language. But increasingly we are seeing a loss over the written word, as migration steeps more deeper into Indian migrant communities. The most extreme example,perhaps, is of the Fiji Indians, who today even have a Hindi Wikipedia which is written in the Roman script.

As far as State policies to protect the language go, in Goa's case, this can be a bit scary. Not only does the State tend to play favourites between scripts and dialects (well the case here), but it also tends to have a policy of hand-outs. Which need not go to the most deserving or worthy people. 

Perhaps the recognition that the politics of exclusion have no place in promotion a language could go a long way in promoting Konkani not just in Goa but among the diaspora too. It is a fact that learning Konkani -- both outside and within Goa -- can be a tough job, for a number of complex reasons. That is the subject for some other debate...

Agree with your points, just adding to them....

FN

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[augusto pinto]

Amusing.

While the anecdote that Gilbert relates is quite realistic, his interpretation of the acts of the lady doesn't seem quite right.

I'm pretty sure that while she knew well that he didn't know Portuguese, she certainly didn't think he was a Konkani speaker. 

Like most of Gilbert's generation, she knew well that he was a non-Portuguese speaker. But she also knew he was unlikely to be a Konkani speaker given he was in America and he was an English speaker, a language she was not too familiar with. 

If at all she fawned upon Gilbert, it was because his father told her that he was a 'doutor' one of the most prized professions in those and even these days (others being 'padris', 'advogados' and 'empregados') 

Which is why she tried to express her appreciation to him. 

Incidentally I wanted to know about Gilbert's background, and let me not deny that includes knowing what his caste is, even asking him whether he was related to Pio Lawrence, but he didn't respond. 

This post of his offers a lot of information. 

Augusto 

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-book-club/906151135.7807885.1596468652911%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Eugene Correia]

There's no doubt that English is the worst case of borrowing words from other languages. Agreed, it does enrich english. We know that many Hindi words are part of the English, most. Notably in this age and time the holistic word  -- YOGA.

I see the word "mantra" used by some leading opinion writers in leading newspapers and magazines. 

However, as mentioned earlier in this thread, Konkani has "borrowed" from Sanskrit, which may have annoyed the learned priest/academic who preferred Portguesectomprovide "loan-words."

When in Goa I listen attentively to the readings from the Bible. How far is this "sankritsition" of Konkani been accepted by the literary world?

I read the interview of the newly-elected president of KBM in Navhind Times, and I wish there consensus between the Devanagiri and Romi factions on the usage of the language in textual forms.

One doesn't expect a Chicago Manual of Style but rudimentary guidelines for those starting out in Konkani writing. Are Cunha Rivara and Jose Pereira still relevant now? In my view, they remain as icons.

Eugene

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[Raymond Dias]

I have been reading all these theories of why Goans prefer to speak in English rather than in Konkani and it is tiring to go through the lame excuses and so here is my bit and hope it will put paid to the hypocrisy and the pretence of being of a superior clad of people.

The fact of the matter is that Goans — and I specifically mean ‘Catholic Goans’ — suffer from an inferiority complex. Period.

This complex came about when a British Navy ship landed in Goa to take in fresh supplies and found out that the locals had no trouble handling pork, beef and booze while some of them could keep a store's ledger and almost all of them played some musical instrument. The Brits took them across the globe in shiploads as waiters, cooks, barmen, storekeepers and musicians. In India, it was the East India Company that employed them as clerks; the Roman script they had learnt under the Portuguese, came in handy; English could be learnt on the trot. They were now in all the major cities of India; Karachi and Lahore included. They would now hob-knob with the white man at Sunday service! Those that worked in Britt households, soon brought their wives to live with them at their workplace, where they then worked as ‘Ayahs’ to the Britt kids and they would soon pick up the “Gaoro’s” language. A houseboy was also a worthwhile job.

Those returning home to Goa on annual leave, would talk of how they hobnob with the Gaoras and how like them they were too (today, my mundkar tells me proudly of how her grandmother would speak in chaste Eengleesh)! Many would look upon themselves as ‘Anglo Indians’ and Fernandes would soon become Ferns and Rodrigues even better; Rodricks!

This was particularly true for the ‘Sudras’; the ‘Brahmins’ preferring to speak in Portuguese and after the liberation of Goa, in English; the Chaddis in between… confused coconuts; the name, not inappropriate… brown on the outside and white on the inside.

The die was cast. Today’s Catholic Goans are a ‘racist’ lot. They shun the mother tongue and opt for speaking in English. Result, no Catholic Goan speaks a single language correctly. It is pathetic… at a supermarket I heard a woman shout; ‘Not telling you make susu there!’ I didn’t understand what was said in a rat-a-tat AK 47 voice until I turned around to see… She was shouting at her 3-yr. old, who was peeing in the aisle. She carried on talking to the staff in her perceived enlightenment and command of ‘Engleesh’. It was disgusting. Goan Catholics need to have a good look at themselves and find their identity; not assume somebody else’s.

This woman is bent on making a Portuguese passport and moving off to London. She doesn’t mind staying 16-to-flat, having now lost both her self-esteem and self-respect and unwittingly, she is also a racist. Goans will migrate to Canada and the US; lands that were take over from the Inuits and the Red Indians while shooting the original inhabitants like vermin and corralling them in reserves. Those lands were taken in the name of Christianity; the Pope and Church sanctioning it. Goans (my spell checker brings up ‘Goons’) will migrate to Australia (a land first populated by criminals, thieves, murderers and prostitutes) and New Zealand; once again, lands that were forcibly taken over by racist of ‘white’ men; Aborigine children forcefully separated from their parents and ‘educated’ in camps and the elders put in ‘settlements’. In New Zealand, the first thing that Captain Cook did was to shoot dead the chief of a Maori tribe on the beach, as they came forward peacefully to greet the sailors. Today, these racists — like wintering migrating ducks ­— flock down to Goa in the northern winters and look down upon us locals as unfortunates, left behind; haughty disdain while announcing that they are Canadian, UK or whatever racist country they hold passports from. Forget that Goans have lost their identity… they have no moral fibre nor character left in them anymore.

Anyway, we in India now have a Govt. at the centre who are putting things right. In the new education policy 2020, a child will be taught in his ‘mother’ or ‘native’ tongue until class 5. This is ‘Good News’ to many of us in Goa. Konkani is a derivative of Sanskrit (alphabet of the gods, from deva god + nigari an Indian alphabet) and enriched by the Saraswats of the Mohenjo-Daro and Harappan Civilizations, who came and settled in Goa when the Saraswathi river went dry around about the 13^th. century (You may read of it in my book ‘The Teardrop Theory’). It is the most southern of the ‘Devanagari’  on the Indian sub-continent and our ancient Sanskrit language and is the root of all languages spoken outside of Africa and on those islands that split off from Africa 75,000-years ago and now form parts of countries in the South China Sea and the Pacific Ocean. In the new Educational plan 2020, I will side with the Govt. of Goa to teach Konkani in the Devanagiri script. The Roman script is not Indian.

Furthermore, all European languages have their roots in Sanskrit and the ‘white’ man has grouped his language as an ‘Indo-European Group of Languages’, rather than an ‘Indic’ language. The Innuits and the Red Indians speak a derivative of Sanskrit or Indic, not an ‘Indo-European’ language. They only set their eyes on a white man in the late 15^th. century; the Indians were in the Americas for some 30,000-years before that.

Now, to make my point about Catholic Goans being Anglophiles or Portofilos, here is what happened in 2009. My daughter had just passed out in August from the London School of Economics (LSE) and was immediately snapped up by David Cameroon to work initially for his ‘Vote for Change’ campaign. Three months later, she came down to India and was here for Christmas, having dumped David Cameroon and the UK for good.

I was sitting at my wife’s place in Margao, when her sister-in-law — a college lecturer — said to me in her sing-song Margao-Brahmin-Portuguese-accented-Engleesh: ‘Why have you called Gina back to India?’ I said that this was her home and why the question? The reply: ‘No… she could have stayed there only no… married there no?’

My daughter was not only back in India, which she dearly loves (speaks Hindi, Marathi Konkani fluently and Tamil by now I hope and like me, six languages and now learn Sanskrit and she… Tamil), married a Tamilian, who is today Head of OXFAM (Africa) and they live in Nairobi; proud Indian Citizens! Deepak communicates with his 8-month old daughter in Tamil; proud of his heritage. Gina attends Embassy dinners in her favourite saris; Deepak, sometimes in a turban!

Now, some of you might be trying to figure out why this long post from me and what am I trying to get across. So, first and foremost, I am an Indian Citizen, a proud one at that, a Hindu, a BJP paying member and a foot-soldier of the RSS too. What I would like most, is to see the Catholic Goan integrate into the Indic way of life; join the services, the police force and first and foremost, stop talking in a foreign language thrust upon us by thieves, invaders and slave trading colonialists. Stand by your ancient roots that lie deep in this sub-continent. Be a proud Indian. If you are a Goan and hold citizenship of another country, please restrain yourselves and do not get involved in our Indic customs and traditions. Show some loyalty to your adopted white race at least.

Stop the hypocrisy and the double standards and let us talk about books on this forum.

Raymond Dias

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[Edwin]

I was a Committee Member of the Willingdon Catholic Gymkhana. Santacruz, Mumbai.

I tried to conduct simple Konkani conversational classes for our members, for almost a year.

I received a response of only 35, from around 4000 members! It was an up hill task finding a teacher. I tried everywhere including the famous institutes in Goa and the Konkani pockets of Mumbai including the famous  IC Colony Borivali. Someone from the Mapusa Assn had advertised in the “Examiner”. The person never responded to my calls or emails! 

Finally I was referred to a Tiatrist. Unfortunately the rates he quoted were too high. The Gym was only providing its facilities, not subsidizing the cost of tuition, which had to be borne by the interested members. 

Sad that my noble intentions fizzled out! If there is a correspondence course in Konkani, please let me know.

Thank you 

Edwin Fernandes

Mumbai 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 4, 2020, at 2:47 AM, Eugene Correia <eugene....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[augusto pinto]

Dear Eugene (read in-line)

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:47 AM Eugene Correia <eugene....@gmail.com> wrote:

...

However, as mentioned earlier in this thread, Konkani has "borrowed" from Sanskrit, which may have annoyed the learned priest/academic who preferred Portguesectomprovide "loan-words."

If you're referring to Prof. Lourdino Rodrigues, Eugene, it was quite the opposite. He was very comfortable with Sanskrit as he regarded Konkani as being close to Sanskrit (modern Konkani is probably a mixture of the Prakrit of Saraswat invaders combined with the native languages of Goa spoken by the earlier inhabitants). What he didn't like was borrowing from Portuguese. Funny in a way, given that he was also an expert in Portuguese, being an editor and also a Professor in the language. Incidentally he wasn't a priest, but he had studied to become one, and left in fury when the authorities didn't give him the top grades he deserved. This is mentioned in his book Sex, Souls and Spices, which his son Tensing posthumously got published.

 

When in Goa I listen attentively to the readings from the Bible. How far is this "sankritsition" of Konkani been accepted by the literary world?

This is a separate topic in itself. Yes you're right, the Konkani Bible has been needlessly translated into a difficult, artificial dialect (padri-bhas) which borrows too much from Sanskrit and deletes earlier Portuguese borrowings. To give you an example which I love to laugh at, the Moira Church, Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception Church, which in Portuguese was Igreja de Nossa Senhora de Conceição and in Konkani was Conceição Saibinnichi Igroz. Now it has become Nixkollunk Sambhoullele Saibinichi Igroz. Ridiculous - but at least they didn't turn Igroz into Mandir!

On the rare and sad occasions when I go for a mass, (mostly funerals and weddings which as you will no doubt agree are both sad occasions) I sometimes watch how the gospel readers struggle with the language. 

I read the interview of the newly-elected president of KBM in Navhind Times, and I wish there consensus between the Devanagiri and Romi factions on the usage of the language in textual forms.

Not being a regular reader of NT I missed this. Wonder what you're referring to.

 

One doesn't expect a Chicago Manual of Style but rudimentary guidelines for those starting out in Konkani writing. Are Cunha Rivara and Jose Pereira still relevant now? In my view, they remain as icons.

Cunha Rivara and Jose Pereira will always be relevant but I guess more for the scholar, not the general reader.

Augusto 

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[augusto pinto]

Khoreanich, amcho Raymond-bab, ek khoro Goenkar! 

Hanv taka mann ai resped dita! 

Hanv mhunnta - valor ki oslo vhodd munis amchea Goeiant zolmoll'le mhunnon. 

Anink zaite osle vhodd munis amchea Goeiant zolmoll'ea puro mhunnon magt'tam.

Atam hanga Goeiant matshi ratt zaunk lagla dekhun mhaka fudl'lem kitem ulounk zai amchea manad'dik Raymond-bab'a veshim, hanv falea boroitolo.

Punn atam mhaka taka nomoskar korunk zai. 

Deo borem korum Raymond-bab tuven amkam itlea bore-bhashen sangn'nem sanglem mhon'non.

Augusto 

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[sandra lobo]

Maybe you should reconsider your participation in a forum that chooses English as a medium and eventually even consider give a step further and stop publishing in the language of colonialist thieves. As your honnest discourse evidences, racism is not a Western monopoly and I feel horrified by the implications of your vision of what being a true Indian implies.

Sandra Ataíde Lobo

 

CHAM – Centro de Humanidades, FCSH/NOVA-UAC

https://giepcip.wordpress.com/

tmn. ++351 930690459

---

De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com> em nome de Raymond Dias <the.teard...@gmail.com>
Enviado: 4 de agosto de 2020 10:41

Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com>
Assunto: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Proud to speak my Mother Tongue

 

I have been reading all these theories of why Goans prefer to speak in English rather than in Konkani and it is tiring to go through the lame excuses and so here is my bit and hope it will put paid to the hypocrisy and the pretence of being of a superior clad of people.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-book-club/CACTQjUETS5xNWcSV7oDb%2BLM_KjLMkthCkV9-E-eFsmkEvyQooQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[augusto pinto]

Dear Edwin,

Trying to learn languages through books or correspondence courses, even through Internet courses are, in my personal experience, difficult at the best of times

Our teachers in Goa are in the process of trying to adapt to education over the Internet and sooner or later excellent courses will no doubt be created. 

However first as a language learner and later as a language teacher for over 5 decades my opinion is that the best way to learn a language is to immerse oneself in a place where the language is spoken all the time. 

That's how I, whose first language is English, learnt Konkani although till now I'm a bit diffident about writing it in the Devanagari script although I can. 

The next best way is to learn it directly from a good teacher: Mind Your Language which describes what happens in such cases hilariously is a program I watch again and again. Because although it is a farce it tells us about the reality of what happens in actual language learning situations. 

Now to come to your problem: getting a good Konkani teacher. In Goa there are many I could recommend but this accursed Covid-19 blocks them from going to Mumbai even if you could afford them. 

Anwesha Singbal who is a member and recently featured on this forum who is President of Konkani Bhasha Mandal may be a resource if she doesn't mind dealing with students who will mostly be Christian. 

Dr. Prakash Parienkar, the head of the Konkani department of Goa University has recently started a website to teach Konkani but one needs to know the Devanagari script to access it. 

However if you correspond with him directly then maybe he could help figure out a solution specifically for Bomoikars. 

Finally your best bet might be the Thomas Stevens Konknni Kendra in Porvorim which promotes writing Konkani in the Roman script. 

If you need any further advice on the details of what I write above, feel free to ask. 

All the best. 

Augusto 

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[Edwin Fernandes]

Dear Augusto Bab,

Thank you so much for your valuable tips. I will definitely work on them.

As regards the Thomas Stevens Konknni Kendra, I did contact the Kendra but I’m afraid the Kendra was not of much help.

Thank you once again.

Regards,

Edwin Fernandes

On 4 Aug 2020, at 22:01, augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thomas Stevens Konknni Kendra

[Eugene Correia]

Augusto, I wasn't referring to Prof Lourdino   Rodrigues. I meant in reference to what FN wrote that the priest who taught ciology at GU had been critical of Konkani overcoated with Sanskrit flavou or used Sanskrit "root-words" to coin new Konkani.

Even late Prof Jose Pereira favoured making Konkani more Indic in form and usage.i agree, the Bible is heavily Sankritized. I even heard Igor being called "dev-mondir" not just "mondir".

At least for me, learning this new Konkani is a battle. Brought up on the Konkani employed by Bombay's flourishing Konkani press, it's late in the day to switch gears.

However, the fight between the two factions will remain at least for the foreseeable future.

Eugene

Eugene 

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[augusto pinto]

Sandra-bai,

Jem tum uloita tem hanvem vhoddviken vachllam. 

Sogot zannant ki Sandra Ataide Lobo ek vhodd itihasik zannar mhun'non. 

Jem tem uloita tem sogott hangasorlea zanann'i vachpachem. 

Deo borem korum 

Augusto 

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[sandra lobo]

Dear Augusto,

Many thanks for your thoughts. I am one of the Goan sinners who do not know Konkani, but you were kind enough to send the translation via private channel.

Kind regards,

Sandra

Sandra Ataíde Lobo

 

CHAM – Centro de Humanidades, FCSH/NOVA-UAC

https://giepcip.wordpress.com/

tmn. ++351 930690459

---

De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com> em nome de augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com>
Enviado: 4 de agosto de 2020 17:56

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-book-club/CABzMD-XWOy3JTikV1d%2BRtov5Y1eTNtmzPP7-FWB6AKcVnkj7zw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Eugene Correia]

Augusto, your "deo" is the same as "dev" spelled by others? Deva re deva.

Just to show, zkonkani vo Konnkni can be a "foxy" language. Reading the "YADOSTIK" of the Poilem Konknni (Romi Lipi) Sahitya ani Sonvskruti Sommelon, held in 2008, I found another the word "sommelon" split as "som'melan" .

One place it's "rajbhas" while Mukel Ulovpi, Fr. Pratap Naik, spells as ""razbhas", writing "Razbhas kaido pas...." Isn't "pas" for the English "pass"?

He uses "Nagori" and I have read writers use "Nagri" shortform for Devnagri.

The DKA has also published a booklet, Konkani Orthography in Roman Script, by a select high-profile committee of six, including 5 priests and Felicio Cardoso. 

Prof. Lourdino Rodrigues has his Konkani Bhaseche Vyakaram, and Fr. Mathew Almeida has his Romi Lipient Konknni Kors.

Like "pas" we have "kors" borrowed from English. Or, Augusto's "Engleeesh". Well, in amche apurbaiche Konknnint it's "Inglix"

.

Eugene

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[Frederick Noronha]

It is as much a sin not to know a language, as it is a crime to contract Covid currently :-)

Unfortunately, both are regarded as criminals in these times.

Today the boot is on the other foot. This reminds me of do-you-know-Portuguese questions which often popped up during the Goa of the 1960s. Its intention was as exclusionary as is the approach of some in the Konkani camp these days. Few want to genuinely spread and promote the respective language.

FN

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[augusto pinto]

For your kind comments Sandra-bai - Deo borem korum! 🙏

Augusto 

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-book-club/VI1PR06MB49410DCD601E403B762B46D6A54A0%40VI1PR06MB4941.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com.

[Eugene Correia]

It's Mohan Kararapukar.

Eugenr

On Wed., Aug. 5, 2020, 3:22 p.m. Eugene Correia, <eugene....@gmail.com> wrote:

Edwin, try and get the books from TSKK, and also Let's Learn Konkanni by S. J. Borkar, 1984. The book's title in English but it's in Devnagri script. Perhaps its outdated.

There's a small booklet, Konkani Self Teacher (A perfect guide to learn! Konkanni, by Mohan D. JarapurkarNoted here Konkani spelt with double "n". Published 1986. Has terms in Konkani, both scripts, and English. Maybe outdated.

Besides Fr. Mathew Almeida's "kurs", lay your hands on Konkani Orthography inRoman Script. It was published by DKA in 1988 but one past president wasn't aware of it. 

I have an old 24-page Konknni Poilem Pustok, by Pe. Assuncao da Silva. edited by CL Sing al and printed by Livraria Singbal, Cidade de Goa. It's in Romi  Lipient (vornnmall) (alfabeto)

Best of luck,

Eugene

Sandra, be a Konkaniwadi and join the brigade. 5

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[Eugene Correia]

Also have COCANIM SECUND TOM by Mariano de Souza. 1958, and perhaps may appear as "foreign" in the milieu of present-day "mixture" or "bastardisation"

of the mai-mogachi amchi has.

Eugene

[augusto pinto]

Here is a youtube link of the HOD of Goa University's Konkani department Dr. Prakash Parienkar which teaches Konkani. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=CazR0GSs6aE

The problem is that it doesn't start from scratch bit is a resource which might help those who already know Konkani and know the Devanagari script. Hence it is essentialy a guide to improving Konkani grammatically among those who already know it. 

Best wishes, 

Augusto 

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[Frederick Noronha]

Try Saurab Kaisare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbsgi_tiWGg

See also more about how he got started with "Learn Konkani with Saurabh"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFPwbyJEcSM&feature=youtu.be

FN

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[Frederick Noronha]

And look who's here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdysezediQ4

[Frederick Noronha]

William O Rodrigues started off with a good shot. Not sure how far he has taken it... wish he had!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiWkB9EfpNw

[Michael Pinto]

Fr. Ptratap Naik S.J. has produced many  konkani learning videos

I will write to him

---

From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Frederick Noronha <frederic...@gmail.com>
Sent: August 5, 2020 3:27 PM
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Proud to speak my Mother Tongue

 

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-book-club/CAMCR53%2Bk0jBEdNrfLTATjEf9KLb%3D0mYiXVesR4Jaz7nPsMbmHA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Michael Pinto]

Fr. Pratap Naik  replied that all his konkani lesson are available through ccrtv.org channel

It's an app can be downloaded  from play store 

---

From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Frederick Noronha <frederic...@gmail.com>

Sent: August 5, 2020 3:34 PM
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com>; williamro...@gmail.com <williamro...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Proud to speak my Mother Tongue

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[antonio CABA]

NI found the subject very interesting 

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[Jose Fernandes]

Pattlea satalleant thaun 'FUDDARI' satallem somajik madyomantlean uzvadda haddunk survat kelia. Pattlea satalleacho 'FUDDARI' hanga zoddla.    

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[augusto pinto]

Porbim tuka Jose Salvador Fernandes!

Hem sattollemchem mol kitem, ani vorssak kitle rupia 'subscribtion' fee farik korche poddta? 

Hanv vicharta kiteak mobilacher vachpak hem matshem kotyin zata.

Augusto 

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[Eugene Correia]

Nice to see Fuddari back. Not to be accused of nit-picking but just to show the discrepancies that exist among leading writers of Konkani, who are considered as mentors to those wishing to learn or improve their written Konkani, I saw in spelt as "Inglez" whereas a leading writer and a said authority or the language spelt it as "Inglix . So I wish to ask experts on this forum which is right or are bo "z" bo "i" acceptable?

When in Goa, I would borrow from my relative next door his subscribed copy of V. Ixtt as reading it reminds me of my young days and teenage days of reading Bombay's Konknni weeklies.

Thanks Jose for trying to keep Konknni journalism marching ahead, orcst least sustaining it.

Eugene

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[Eugene Correia]

This article also has references to another top topic on the on the CBC, that's Goa Inquisition, and on the FB pages. Indo-Portuguese History and

Derek Almeida.

Eugene

On Fri., Aug. 7, 2020, 10:36 p.m. Eugene Correia, <eugene....@gmail.com> wrote:

https://www.bitchmedia.org/article/konkani-endangered-language

Eugene

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