Translation from Konkani to English

[Selma Cardoso]

Yesterday, I as going through mandos which had been translated from Konkani to English and have been compiled in a noteworthy book. I was really speechless. Almost every sentence has been inaccurately translated into English. The nuance of any language is very difficult to translate into another language, hence the phrase, lost in translation, but this was a distortion of the worst sort. The spirit and message of entire mandos has been mangled.

 

This is not the first time I have come across such a literary massacre. Award-winning books and stories translated from Konkani to English have been dealt similar blows.

 

Translation is a responsibility not to be taken lightly. It is the preservation of our heritage and is akin to a historian recording history. It requires great skill to understand not just two languages but also the cultural references and nuances within both those languages. A literal translation of "foxi" maybe wish but in the context that it is used, it can be also desire. While translating mandos, its also important to take note of the tense. The incorrect translation of a Konkani tense can change the import of the whole sentence. And last but not least a deep appreciation of the sort of Konkani spoken by Catholic Goans, particularly from Salcete.

 

If we are to use a benchmark of what a perfect, Portuguese/Konkani to English translation is, then it Gip's Dulce e Jacob translated by Alvaro Noronha da Costa.

 

It is my sincere wish that writers such as Jose Lourenco and Augusto Pinto, who are comfortable with both languages, revisit these translations sometime and put some balm on the wounds inflicted on them. Of course there should be money is such a venture and either the Government should support it or we should support it as private venture.

 

Best,

selma

 

 

[Nazareth, Peter]

Dear Selma,

Translation from Konkani was one of the big problems I encountered when I started editing the volume of JSAL on Goan literature for Michigan State University.

There was a major Goan poet who wrote dramatic monologues in poetic form.  The English translations were lousy--old fashioned and with some errors in the very few words of Konkani I knew.  I wrote to the poet and asked him whether he would let me find another translator.  He replied that I had listened to all his enemies.  He said that if his translator was not good, how was it that he was so famous internationally?  As proof of his international fame was an international conference he was invited to.  This Englishman was someone I had identified as running a scam supposedly based in Cambridge.  He would write to you saying that you had been selected for having your biography included in a Who's Who and a parchment of the bio would be sent to you absolutely free but you would have to pay for post and packing--an amount large enough to pay for the whole thing.  I received such an invitation in Uganda and concluded that this was a scam beamed at the wounded souls of the former colonial empires who wanted recognition.  I could not tell the Goan poet that  his volumes which had been sent to the International Writing Program before I arrived were picked up in my presence by the Director of the Program and his assistant and they read extracts from the poems and laughed at them, saying to me, "You must have taken all the Goan writing talent and left nothing to him."  He also wrote to me to help him get to the US and said he and I could astound the world.  All this was at the time that I knew almost nothing about Goan literature except for "Sorrowing Lies My Land."  And it was at a time when my position in the US was a very uncertain one and I was not in a position to help anyone.  I thought he was a pretty good poet if one had the patience and desire to read between the lines.

Best.

Peter

---

From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Selma Cardoso [lescar...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:37 AM
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [GOABOOKCLUB] Translation from Konkani to English

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[Selma C]

Dear Peter,

I could advance some theories as to why the translations are poor but I will be mercilessly crucified and seeing that it is Christmas rather than Easter, I shall hold my peace :-) besides, I'm  sure both Frederick  and I have to go for christmas mass and not spend the whole of christmas arguing :-)

Speaking of Christmas, wishing everyone on the forum a warm and blest Christmas.

Felize Navidade,

Selma

Sent from my iPad

[Frederick Noronha]

Selma, I have all the time in the world to argue... Just to throw the
cat among the pigeons, all I'd say for now: better than curse the
darkness, let's light a candle. On translations.

Can we? FN

PS: All the ingredients are there. We need some chefs to put it all
together. A big challenge. If it works, BINGO!

[Alfred de Tavares]

Peter, is it a guy whose intials could have been T.G.?
Later 60s ?

In which case I may know a bit of inside gist.

Alfred de Tavares
Stockholm, Sweden, Dec 22, 2011

---

From: peter-n...@uiowa.edu
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [GOABOOKCLUB] Translation from Konkani to English
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 14:56:40 +0000

[Nazareth, Peter]

Alfred,

You are right.

In the early days, I applied for a Rockefeller Fellowship to fund the Goan issue of JSAL and I applied for funds to pay translators. I did not get the Fellowship.

I asked Rocky Miranda, who I understood was a linguist, whether he could do two things for me (gratis): first read materials I received in Konkani and let me know whether they were good enough for including in the Goan volume and then to translate the ones that were worthwhile.  He agreed.  I sent him some materials in Konkani.  I never heard from him again.  I heard from a friend that he told friends in Goa that I was being taken for a ride by Goans who were not good writers and who sent me their materials

---

From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Alfred de Tavares [alfred...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:37 AM
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

[Leonard Fernandes]

Yes, let's do something about it rather lament its absence.

Leonard Fernandes
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tel: +91 98503 98530 | skype: leonardjensan

Join our discussions on the future of publishing:
https://groups.google.com/group/publishingnext

[Selma C]

Fn, I've about 48 hours left to fight with you before I attempt to roast a dead bird whilst keeping it moist and succulent. So here goes.
The issue as I see it is this. Those who are scholars of the Konkani language have no feel for the English language and language dynamics being what they are in Goa, those proficient in english or Portuguese are not really equipped to take on a full-fledged translation from konkani to english. Where the lies the middle ground, is anyone's guess.
Take care,
Selma

Sent from my iPad

[Frederick Noronha]

Selma, I'm mostly cold to turkeys. But then, the assumption that the
bird is a turkey could be wholly wrong!

As for translations, this is how I understand the issue:

* Anyone translating needs to be strong in the TARGET language and
reasonably okay in the SOURCE language. So, for a good Konkani-to-
English translation, you would need someone good in English.
(Likewise, for a good English-to-Konkani translation, you would need
someone good in Konkani, and in the relevant script too.)

* Our young friend Augusto Pinto is an amazing guy. Despite being
Africa-born, he has taught himself sufficient Devanagari Konkani to be
able to translate into English. (And I'm not flattering him because he
shares the moderation tasks of this list with me!) From what I
understand, if he has a difficulty with some Devanagari Konkani word,
he would consult someone like the veteran educationist and writer
Suresh Amonkar, and come out with a fine result. Take a look at his
translation of the late Chandrakant Keni's The Hippy Girl [http://
bit.ly/Keni-HippyGirl] and tell me what you think.

* Others like Isidore Dantas, I believe, are good at English-to-Roman
Konkani translation. He has volunteered some very detailed translation
for me when we were struggling to get a possible Konkani Wikipedia
going. Take a look at the quality of his work here [http://
incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/gom/Pintonchem_Karosthan] Isidore has
spent his entire life outside Goa (in Bombay and Poona, now Mumbai and
Pune) and self-taught himself Konkani, including Devanagari!

* If the translation doesn't read well, one needs to see if the
failing is with the translation itself, or with the original. Since
there is a small pool of writers here, the chances of neutral reviews
of a writer's contribution could be limited. At other times, the
translator might not have done a good job.

* Anyway, a handful of individuals don't make for sufficient mass, and
our numbers are limited. What is really needed now is some kind of
secialist diplomas or even MA courses at the Goa University in
translation studies.

* I would think we are facing the "Goan taxi drivers" syndrome in this
field too. Because there is so little work available, rates tend to be
high. Because rates for translation are high, few people get
translations done. We need to scale up with urgency if any impact is
to be made.

* Similar is the case with other languages like Portuguese, French I
would suspect (we have experts from those languages too on this list).
There is need for some money to come into this field, if more people
are to take to it. Yet, at the same time, we cannot expect people to
give away money for nothing, and unless work of quality is made
available, we won't see growth. In fact, if we touch critical mass
(this is a hard task), we could not only take care of Goa's own needs,
but also service the translation markets in large parts of Asia (and
why not Europe, LatAm and South America?)

As you would note, I'm not in a mood for fighting over the quality of
existing translations, which may or may not have been done well. We
all make our errors, so I'm the last person to be able to cast stones.
But I'm quite enchanted by the idea of what can be done to get
going... Who knows, the solution might be easier than we think! And
yes, you can blame me for being the perennial optimist -- even if it's
not true, this could become a self-fulfilling prophecy :-) FN

[Helga do Rosario Gomes]

You have omitted our Valmiki Faleiro who not only translated some dulpods really well but also gave their historic connotations. There are many Goans proficient in all 3 languages but they may not wish to take on such a big task with so few resources.

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[Selma C]

Fn,
You are wrong about it being a turkey. I'm roasting a chicken and that cunning editor of goanvoice uk has just sent me a whole packetful of Goan sausages with which to make a pulau.

I read the first link, the second one no longer exists. Augustus translation is as usual excellent. I have to premise this by saying I haven't read the original in Konkani but a good translation as you rightly pointed out reads seamlessly in the target language. The trick would be to make clones of augusto but how?

Also I think translating lyrics, mando and poetry is trickier than translating prose. Arrangements there are different and it takes a real understanding of the vernacular in its spoken everyday form to make that translation. Also in mandos, typically as in most spoken Konkani in salcette, you will suddenly come across Portuguese words, so really you are left grappling with three languages. One suggestion would be mandos, etc should have at least two people working on them before an acceptable translation is compiled into a book. Otherwise it is just a travesty.

Take care,
Selma

Sent from my iPad

[Frederick Noronha]

On Dec 23, 1:06 am, Helga do Rosario Gomes <helgadorosa...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> You have omitted our Valmiki Faleiro who not only translated some dulpods
> really well but also gave their historic connotations. There are many Goans
> proficient in all 3 languages but they may not wish to take on such a big
> task with so few resources.

Helga, I just mentioned two friends whose work I know, and it's not
meant to be a complete list. There are others working on translations
too (and some names were discussed here recently). For instance Xavier
Cota, who translates (mainly) Damodar Mauzo, Vidya Pai (Devanagari
Konkani to English), and others.

Selma, The second link works, pls see:
http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/gom/Pintonchem_Karosthan

Rgds, FN

[Alfred de Tavares]

Peter, could you please send me a couple, or more, of the original dulpods, mand'os you
have, in originals. I don't want any translations...because, just for heck of it, I wish to try
my hand at the stuff.

Rico, if you could, also, indulge...

All the best for Venite Anno!
Alfred de Tavares,
Stockholm, 2001-12-26...let's keep boxing...

---

From: peter-n...@uiowa.edu
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [GOABOOKCLUB] Translation from Konkani to English
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 14:56:40 +0000

[Nazareth, Peter]

Alfred,

I don't think I have any dulpods or mand'os in Konkani.  I will double check when I return to Iowa on January 15.

Happy forthcoming year.

Peter

---

From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Alfred de Tavares [alfred...@hotmail.com]

Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 11:43 AM

[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎]

Alfred, We have two recent books which contain collections of mandde and dulpodam (by Dr Jose Pereira, Pe. Antonio Costa and maestro Micael Martins). See attachments. Not sure whose translations Selma was referring to, but if these, by our noted scholars of Konkani and Sanskrit don't satisfy, then I wonder which would!

My suggestion: don't fritter away your time on the above genre. There are many other translations waiting to happen. (Let me use this as an occasion to embarass Xavier Cota, though he could say he never read it :-)). FN

PS: If anyone has the time and skills for translations, do get in touch. We could definitely collaborate on something that makes a difference.

--
FN +91-832-2409490 or +91-9822122436 f...@goa-india.org
AUDIO recordings (mostly from Goa): http://bit.ly/GoaRecordings  

[Selma C]

Frederick, I am aware that you have published some books on mandos. Others have made translations as well.  Please let us not get defensive about everything. It defeats the purpose of honest debate. Let us discuss issues not people.

Best,

Selma

Sent from my iPad

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[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎]

Fair enough Selma.

I guess it was a knee-jerk response to the thought of good ole Alfred
going about attempting to painfully translate AGA MUJA RENDER MAMA, AI
LIA LIA LO or UNDYRA MUJA MAMAM* when such translations already
exist. Probably the best one could get.

Well, just an hour ago, I came across a souvenir from a recent mando
festival. Now if anyone wants a real challenge (including Alfred), try
translating that! It has never been done before, and could be somewhat
complex too.

Anyone for it? I could scan a page or two and forward. FN

[mas...@udsm.ac.tz]

Hi:
There are about 2 million Goans .... and when I read the discussons in the
last few days I have almost come to the conclusion that Goans must be one
of the most literate people and has many writers.

I tried to put the discussions into some sort of perspectives. The
Japanese for example make it their business to have important works
translated .... for example the works of Samir Amin, but more than that at
the African Studies Centre in Tokyo they actually used to have a
collection of nearly 200 newspapers including both Kiswahili and English
Newspapers from Tanzania, publications from academic institutions. More
facinating is what has been happening in Iceland.

There are less than 400,000 Icelanders but they have hundreds of works.
.... mostly sagas, but they also have modern novelists. Some years ago I
happened to read a Icelandic work translated into English. Their
vocabulary for ice/snowlfog ran into more than a 100 words, which required
descriptors in English. Indeed UNESCO has declared Iceland as the
Literature Capital of the world. There is a heavy price to be paid for
translating. The Government subsidies translations.

I do not know what the costs of books in Iceland but in Norway even
popular books, like James Bond, Ludlum, Follet actually cost three times
more than the English Version.

What am I getting at?:

1) Basically a lot can be done .... a subsidy is one thing to consider.
2) One requires a cadre of translators ...... a conscious effort at the
University
3) The impression I get is that even those who write in English really do
not make much ..... ofcourse there are exceptions. ..... So why do Goans
write ?.
4) Translating is not easy, its not a question of language but all the
nauances, emotions, situations ... you must have the feel for it. Last
year in Boston, I was reading a diary of a Jewish girl who migrated from
Russia ... the diary was translated from Russian to French and then
English. It was so simple and economical in words.
5) High up in the Pare Mountains, last year, an old man was narrating the
history of his clan all the 14 generations and I thought of the way Goans
keep stock of their relatives and their deeds of relatives in far off
places ... Is this culture of "stories" disappearing ... I do not think
so judging by all the books that have been appeared in recent weeks. In a
sense there is an anomaly but perhaps its part of our culture,
irrespective whether you are a Christian, Hindu or a Muslim
6) Let us do everything to support creativity
7) FINALLY WHY DON'T WE START A PRIZE FOR THE BEST NOVEL IN ENGLISH EVERY
ODD YEAR AND IN KONKONI EVERY EVEN YEAR?

The Nobel Prizes will follow. !!!

Adolfo Mascarenhas
DAr es Salaam

Alfred, We have two recent books which contain collections of mandde and
> dulpodam (by Dr Jose Pereira, Pe. Antonio Costa and maestro Micael
> Martins). See attachments. Not sure whose translations Selma was referring
> to, but if these, by our noted scholars of Konkani and Sanskrit don't
> satisfy, then I wonder which would!
>
> My suggestion: don't fritter away your time on the above genre. There are
> many other translations waiting to happen. (Let me use this as an occasion
> to embarass Xavier Cota, though he could say he never read it :-)). FN
>
> PS: If anyone has the time and skills for translations, do get in touch.
> We
> could definitely collaborate on something that makes a difference.
> --
> FN +91-832-2409490 or +91-9822122436 f...@goa-india.org
> AUDIO recordings (mostly from Goa): http://bit.ly/GoaRecordings
>
>
> On 26 December 2011 23:33, Nazareth, Peter <peter-n...@uiowa.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Alfred,
>>
>> I don't think I have any dulpods or mand'os in Konkani. I will double
>> check when I return to Iowa on January 15.
>>
>> Happy forthcoming year.
>>
>> Peter

>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com]

>> on behalf of Alfred de Tavares [alfred...@hotmail.com]

>> *Sent:* Monday, December 26, 2011 11:43 AM
>>
>> *To:* goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* RE: [GOABOOKCLUB] Translation from Konkani to English

>>
>> Peter, could you please send me a couple, or more, of the original
>> dulpods, mand'os you
>> have, in originals. I don't want any translations...because, just for
>> heck
>> of it, I wish to try
>> my hand at the stuff.
>>
>> Rico, if you could, also, indulge...
>>
>> All the best for Venite Anno!
>> Alfred de Tavares,
>> Stockholm, 2001-12-26...let's keep boxing...
>>

>> ------------------------------

>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com]

>> on behalf of Selma Cardoso [lescar...@yahoo.com]

>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:37 AM
>> *To:* goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* [GOABOOKCLUB] Translation from Konkani to English

[Nazareth, Peter]

________________________________________
From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا [frederic...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 6:07 PM
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Translation from Konkani to English

[Nazareth, Peter]

Sorry my message went before it was written. Frederick may be interested to know that from 1974-1976, after completing my time as a writer in the International Writing Program, I worked as a Research Assistant for a project directed by Hualing Nieh Engle, a Chinese novelist and Associate Director to the International Writing Program, translating the Literature of the Hundred Flowers Movement of China (1958-1959).the period when writers were in accordance with Mao Tse-Tung's "Let a Hundred Flowers Bloom, Let a Hundred Schools of Thought Contend", from Chinese into English. I worked with John Hsu, who had recently come from China. He would translate each line from Chinese, sitting next to him I would type the translation and polish it up. One of the questions we faced was whether to keep to the literal translation, which would be accurate but would not read well in English, or to make it read well in English by taking some liberties with the literal accuracy.
We opted for the second choice. The result was that some people who read the stories and knew my fiction told me the stories read like my stories. Not bad for a story I co-translated by Wang Meng, who was sent down to a pig farm for over a decade and then came as a member into the International Writing Program and later still became China's Minister of Culture. We called his story "A Young Man Arrives at the Organization Department" and it was published in a two volume set. In the pre-computer age, it was the most critiqued story in the world (I mean in the original Chinese) because many readers wrote in to praise the story or to find fault with it by saying things like the protagonist finally solved the problem by bourgeois individualism.
Another great story was "Inside News of the Newspaper" by Liu Binyan. He was once a member of the Communist Party but quit the party. He too became a member of the International Writing Program. In his case, however, he was never permitted to return to China. The protagonist is a young woman who has applied to join the Party who writes the truth about how workers in the mine are treated just before the meeting to decide whether or not she should be accepted. Liu Binyan died and was buried in the US.
Peter

________________________________________
From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا [frederic...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 6:07 PM
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Translation from Konkani to English

[damodar ghanekar]

Hello Selmabai,

How do you say that those who're scholars of the Konkani language have no feel

for English? Is it from experience or are you talking off the cuff? But, your next 

statement is absolutely right. That, those proficient in Eng or Port are NOT equipped

to take on translation from Konkani. My friend and co-compiler of the Konkani-English lexicon

Mukesh Thali and I have translated some good pieces. Ravindrabab Kelekar's Vellevoilyo

Ghulo has been translated into English (awaiting publication).

sincerely

Damodar Ghanekar

dam...@gmail.com

 

On Dec 23, 12:40 am, Selma C <lescarval...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Fn, I've about 48 hours left to fight with you before I
> attempt to roast a dead bird whilst keeping it moist
> and succulent. So here goes.
> The issue as I see it is this. Those who are scholars
> of the Konkani language have no feel for the English
> language and language dynamics being what they are
> in Goa, those proficient in english or Portuguese
> are not really equipped to take on a full-fledged
> translation from konkani to english. Where the
> lies the middle ground,  is anyone's guess.

[Frederick FN Noronha फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या *فريدريك نورونيا‎]

Dear Damodar:

It is common human tendency to believe that we are good, and others
are not-so-good :-) I call this The Law of Unfair Comparisons, and
have yet to hear someone say, "I met with an accident the other day,
and it was wholly my fault!"

Without questioning anyone's merit, or flinging stones, I do accept
that everyone believes in the quality of their own work! The question
is: how would a third-party view the same work?

You have to admit that when it comes to translations in Goa, we *all*
don't have enough translations happening, and the work being done
isn't getting noticed enough.

Selma has left us all guessing as to whom she was referring to,
because she has only criticised unnamed translators who worked on the
mando.

More than fault-finding, I think it is a time for collaborative
working, and somehow making things happen. It is a fact that in
multilingual Goa, not all of us have multilingual skills. Far from it.
Our strengths are in one language or another -- for that matter, those
who can translate from English to Konkani might not be able to work
from Konkani to English. And vice-versa.

I suspect hardly any translations are happening directly from Konkani
to Marathi, from Konkani to Portuguese from Portuguese to Hindi, and
vice versa. We have to live with the legacy that our linguistic
heritages have bequeathed us!

So (and this question is to everyone): any specific suggestions for
making things happen? We actually might be closer to the end of the
tunnel than we suspect! But we need a lot of patience, tolerance and
ability to see each other's perspective to actually get somewhere. FN

[Ben Antao]

 

FN: Selma has left us all guessing as to whom she was referring to,

because she has only criticised unnamed translators who worked on the

mando.

 

Perhaps she was referring to my translations of some Konkani proverbs, mandos, dulpods and the dekhni

in my memoir Images of Goa. In a chapter on The Language of Goa, I’ve given some free and interpretive renderings

of the Konkani folk songs in Roman script in the Shashtti dialect.

 

Being a tolerant critic, Selma may have decided not to single me out.

 

However, you have a copy of my book and can see for yourself. As I recall, Augusto Pinto and Jose Lourenco also have copies as well as Leonard Fernandes whose CinnamonTeal published the second edition earlier this year.

 

The key point to remember in translations is that every translator is unique and no two translations will be alike, which is as it should be. In fiction especially, the idea is to refract the story as closely to its original as possible.

 

Cheers.

 

Ben  

 

-----Original Message-----

From:  Frederick FN Noronha फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या *فريدريك نورونيا 

Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 5:23 AM

To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

[Selma Cardoso]

Dear Ben, FN, Damodar et al,

I was not referring to anyone who is known. Probably the people who did these translations are all dead and gone. There have been translations carried out for eons.  I don't wish to offend anyone. I have had occasions where I have named people who I thought existed only in history books only to have their very alive progeny rear their heads like frothing Medusas. So, since then I have learnt not to name people without consulting a lawyer.

 

Coincidentally, yesterday I came across Dr E Lima on Armando Menezes' essay entitled, Are translators traitors?"

 

I reproduce the paragraph.

"Menezes defines the various snags of translation. That translation is, often more difficult than origianl writing, particularly when it involves transposition of culture. That when you are translating a personality, a style, a voice, the feel of a language with all its undertones and overtones, your problem grows manifold. You may have put a dress on a skeleton; and the skeleton may rattle at every joint. The true virtue of a translaiton, Menezes concludes, is that it does not read as a translation, but as an original; not as the original but as an original - an original in another tongue"

 

I think that is a standard we must aspire to.

 

Best,

selma

[Nazareth, Peter]

Selma,

Your quotation from Armando Menezes raises issues similar to those raised in "Translator Translated", the second novella in a set of three in a volume called "The Artist of Disappearance" by Anita Desai, just published by Harcourt Brace.  [My daughter Monique met Anita when she was interviewed three weeks ago by Diana Rheem, National Public Radio, for whom Monique works as a senior producer in Washington DC, and Anita signed a copy of the book to me because she remembered being on a panel moderated by me in 1984 in the Old Senate Chamber at the University of Iowa.]  I would urge you to read this novella--really a short story that will take less than two hours to read and mull over.

In my early days of working on the Goan anthology, I wrote to Armando Menezes to ask him about the Goan poet I thought was good--but did not think the translation read well: it seemed to be archaic.  He replied that he had urged the poet to find another translator, if I remember correctly.  I mentioned the poet's paranoid response to my innocent suggestion.  Of course my frame of reference did not include Goan, or Konkani, writing: it was Okot p'Bitek's "Song of Lawino".  Okot was a Ugandan, specifically an Acholi.  The dramatic poem was in English and made a great impact in Uganda, East Africa, Africa, and the world.  It was very powerful and funny.  Years later, I discovered that Okot originally wrote it in his mother tongue, Acholi (or Lwo).  The translation into English was done by a group of poets sitting around and throwing out suggestions regarding doing the translation.  They included David Rubadiri, who was later at the launching of my novel "In a Brown Mantle" in Kampala, which I signed to him, "I have pushed the pen"--the first thing he said to me when I met him, at a party, after years of trying to meet him--he was from Malawi.  The poem was published in the original language years later, after Taban lo Liyong, himself a poet--about whom I have written--wrote about how much the translation lost of the power of the rhythm and the metaphors of the mother tongue.  Then years after Okot's death--under questionable circumstances--Taban did his own translation of the poem.  But before that, Cliff Lubwa p'Chong, a poet too--who was in the International Writing Program and who married Okot's daughter--did his own creative "translation" into English as a play that could be performed and sung--which he did for the 20th anniversary celebration of the International Writing Program.

Someone one day could try comparing my "Rosie's Theme" to Okot's "Song of Lawino." 

Ishmael Reed once said that a person who kept his culture to himself would suffer from asthma.

Peter

 

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From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Selma Cardoso [lescar...@yahoo.com]

Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 8:18 AM

[augusto pinto]

http://www.jstor.org/pss/40874512

[augusto pinto]

http://groups.google.com/group/goa-book-club/browse_thread/thread/401f20ba083aeec6?pli=1

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 10:52 PM, augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.jstor.org/pss/40874512

--

Augusto Pinto
40, Novo Portugal,
Moira, Bardez,
Goa, India
E pint...@gmail.com or ypin...@yahoo.co.in
P 0832-2470336
M 9881126350

[Selma Cardoso]

Dear Ben,

I'm sure I am going to get into serious trouble with you for this but here goes. I love hari-kiri in anycase. (I assure you though when I originally wrote this post I was not alluding to your translations).

 

Intrigued by the fact that you had translated some mandos, I went and checked your book. - (Images of Goa, 2011 - an excellent book by the way, which I have available for sale with me for those of you in England, who may want to purchase it).

 

So I reproduce below the mando in Konkani and your translation in English and my difference of opinion.

 

Rodtam, rodtam, rogtachim dukam

Ani dusmanank borem magtam

Sounsarachi axea maka naka

Bogor sorguincho rosto choltam

 

Tears of despair I am shedding

And wishing well for the enemy

I have no desire for this world

But only to go to heaven

 

My translation would have been:

 

I cry, I cry; tears of blood

And wish my enemies well

I have no desire for this world

But to tread the righteous path

 

Maybe, like you say, in the end, interpretation is individual and who is to say yours is not closer to the mark than mine. My one big misgiving would be that you have taken too much of a translator's liberty when translating "tears of blood" to "tears of despair." The last line is again open to interpreation. I have considered the tense used.  He is engaging in the act continuously and presently.

 

Take care and best wishes,

Selma 

 

 

 

 

From: Ben Antao <ben....@rogers.com>
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 28 December 2011, 11:38

[Nazareth, Peter]

Folks, given that Goans have travelled out of Goa in great numbers for decades, if not centuries, to work in other countries and other cultures, I cannot believe that when it comes to translations, Goans are only interested in translating from Konkani.  I think the question of translation has been with us for a long time, and we have had to make translation choices.  Let me return to the story by Wang Meng written in 1957 which I co-translated with John Hsu (who fled from China in disillusionment) in 1974-75 and look at one big translation choice I made.

The story has a young man as a protagonist, who has just been accepted as a member of the Communist Party.  He is now sent to a region to investigate and write a report about what is happening. When he arrives, he meets the local party leader.  The leader on his part sees the energy and belief of the young man and sees himself in him long ago, when the revolution was young.  But he says to the young man, "We are like the cooks who have prepared the meal and have lost all interest in it."  A woman party member comes to talk to the leader.  She is slightly older than the protagonist.  The leader tells him later that she has left her husband.

The young man investigates the industry and discovers that the workers have lots of complaints.  The chief problem is that the Director of the industry sexually harasses the women who work for him but the Party has not paid any attention to their complaints.  The young man tries to find solutions but things do not go according to plan.  Everytime that happens, he pulls out of his pocket a Soviet propaganda story, "The Tractor Station Manager and the Agronomist" in which every problem is solved by the tractor station manager referring to Marxism--and he wonders why it does not happen in his case.

Meanwhile the young man is drawn to a woman he had met and she to him, but he does not know what to do about it since his capacity for feeling is not yet developed.

The young man finally writes a letter to the local newspaper complaining about the non-action of the local party leader regarding the complaints about sexual harrassment.  The leader now comes to life, takes action and the problem is dealt with.

The young man feels he has achieved something, but the local party leader is not happy with him because he was highhanded.  And the woman draws back from him.  It is clear he was not yet mature though he felt a yearning for her.

That is how the story ends.

The title of the story when translated literally was "A Young Man Who Came to the Organization Department."  I argued with John Hsu and Hualing Nieh Engle, the Associate Director who had fled from China to Taiwan after her father was killed by the Communists, that the story should be called "A Young Man Arrives at the Organization Department."  I said that the protagonist was young and wanted to be a man but he was not yet a man.  The way he acted was earnest and got results but it showed he was young and did not know much.  Most of all he did not know how to respond to the woman.  In acquiring this knowledge, he was on his way to recognizing he was not yet a man--which means he was ready to be a man.  The word "arrives" has a double meaning.  Finally, Hualing Nieh Engle asked Paul Engle, her husband, the Director of the International Writing Program and founder/former director of the Writers Workshop, a well known poet, which title was better.  He said that the title I chose was better.  That is the title that was used in the published volume.  A professor of Chinese in the Asian Studies Department did not seem to like it because it was not an accurate translation.  But I felt that in choosing that title, I was being true to what happened in the story: and most of all, the story read well in the language into which it had been translated.

Peter

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From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Selma Cardoso [lescar...@yahoo.com]

Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 2:34 PM

[Ben Antao]

Dear Selma:

 

Far from being in serious trouble, you’ve actually made me smile and take note of your English rendering.

 

You’re right about the “tears of despair.” At the time I wrote this chapter in the early 1980s, I was thinking, as I now recall, that tears of blood would have been too literal. So I felt the need to interpret the words of the speaker. I agree that “despair” is taking it too far, but the reader can read between the figurative lines.

 

I also like your rendering of the line “But to tread the righteous path,” instead of mine “But only to go to heaven,” the inherent idea being that if one follows the righteous path, one goes to heaven after death. My other consideration was to keep the metre (rhythm) to eight syllables in each line.  

 

I appreciate your contribution. As I understand it, these folk songs depend on the hearer to absorb their meaning, which can have a different slant based on one’s cultural experience in time and age.

 

All the best.

 

Ben