Fwd: goycho Mull Avaz, book released.

[augusto pinto]

Here is a report of the Goycho Mull Avaz book of Adv John alias Joao Fernandes. If you look at the photos carefully you will notice that John believes that it is the Gawda woman who will be the torch bearer of the Gawda cultural heritage, whereas the men will enter the stream of modernity.

Curiously enough two books on a similar subject although with different forms and treatments were published recently - one was Goycho Mull Avaz and the other was Sankoll by Bonaventure D'Pietro. 

While Joao celebrates his Gawda roots, Bonaventure seeks to disguise his own, to the extent that he has changed his name to the strange D'Pietro. However the last fact may not have been his own decision but that of a forbear intended to avail of the advantages of being an Anglo-Indian.

Augusto

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: JOAO FERNANDES <joao_...@yahoo.com>
To: "mel...@misquita.in" <mel...@misquita.in>; "mel...@misquita.net" <mel...@misquita.net>; "bur...@herald-goa.com" <bur...@herald-goa.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 30 April 2013 8:17 PM
Subject: goycho Mull Avaz, book released.

by John Fernandes,

“Goycho Mull Avaz”  Konkani book written by Adv. Joao Fernandes has been released at the hands of Quepem MLA Shri Chandrakant Kavlekar in presence of Goa Konkani Academy president Shri Pundlik Naik, Goa University professor Alito Siqueira, QMC Vice Chairperson Camilo Simoes, Cultural Artist Josepha Fernandes, Konkani Writer Vincy Quadors, writer of the book Adv. Joao Fernandes and others at Cindio paradise Hall Quepem recently.

            The book Goycho Mull Avaz”  is a compilation of different folk songs,  sung by the Christian Gawda Community on different occasions,   with introduction on  different concept of Gawda Community such as Dhalo, Fugdi, Mand, intruz, Intrumez, Yesre.

 

            Speaking on the occasion Chief Guest and Quepem MLA Shri Chandrakant Kavlekar stated that it is once moral responsibility to work for the community in which one is born. He further stated that even if one  reach at  a higher passion then one  should not forget the  community from which he comes up. He further stated that we should make every attempt to preserve our culture which has history and has been passed on to us by our ancestor. He appreciated the efforts of Adv. Joao Fernandes  in preserving the disappearing cultural heritage of Gawda community and enlightening  the society though his book about the different concept of Gawda community such as mand, Dhalo, Intruz, fugdi etc.

 

            Speaking on the occasion Goa Konkani Academy president Shri Pundalik Naik stated that a person who does not afraids to go into the sludge  goes to the root. He further stated that Goycho Mull Avaz goes to the root of Gawda Community. He further stated that Konkani is the language of the Gawda community and the first right over the Konkani language goes to Gawdas of Goa who are the first settlers  of Goa . He further stated that other communities of Goa  have adopted the Konkani language from the Gawda community. Education shows the light and every educated person should work for the community then only one can say that one is truly educated state Pundlik Naik further. He further stated that some of the Goans have adopted religion of others but they have not adopted their   culture hence the religious leader should not interfere with the culture of the down trodden.

 

            Writer Adv. Joao Fernandes stated that he is proud of his community and will make every effort to preserve the  community culture to  the future generation and Goycho Mull Avaz is one of his effort in that direction. He further stated that the songs which he has complied has the smell of mother earth as in every song there is a reference to different trees. He further stated that it took him 20 years to come out with a book as the has started the work in 1993. He thanks all the folk artist who have contributed in compiling the songs.

            Before the start of the formal function a cultural folk dances such as Dhalo, Fugdi, Intrumez songs were presented and the guest were welcomed by a traditional Tribal  song called “Yesre” which the Gawda community use to sung at the time of welcoming the newly wedded couple on the day of the marriage.

 

The other who spoke on the occasion include prof. Alito Siqueira, QMC Vice Chairperson Camilo Simoes. Writer Vincy Quadros spoke on the book, Pobre Fernandes welcome the guest.   Salvador Rebello introduce the guest, Ulhas Gaonkar compare the function while Freeds D’Costa proposed vote of thanks.

 

Photo annexed. photo 1, young girl danging the Kannar Khell, Photo 2. women folk playing Dhalo,

Photo 3 women folk dancing while singing intrumez song,  photo 4 welcoming the gues by singing welcoming song called yesre, photo 5 and 8  , guest welcomed on the bit of drum, photo 6 women folk in a row to welcome guest , photo 7 book release,  photo 9  women folk in a line to welcone the guest,

 

--


Augusto Pinto
40, Novo Portugal
Moira, Bardez
Goa, India
E pint...@gmail.com
P 0832-2470336
M 9881126350

[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎]

Dear Gusto,

Please correct me if I read you wrong, but your mail seem to take on the role of judge, jury and executioner in what you portray as "seek(ing) to disguise" a caste identity.

You might agree that all of us have multiple identities. We are proud, nay chauvinistic, about some (being "Goan", being male as in not-wearing-bangles as the Goa CEO put it recently) and so on. We don't take others particularly seriously (our blood group, the colour of the underwear we wear). And we would like to move away from others (often related to age after a certain number of years, skin-colour if rich in pigmentation, but sometimes also related to religious or caste identity). 

Caste identities, in particularly, can be touchy subjects. Particuarly because traditional Goan society (and now too) has strongly connected these with feelings of superiority or inferiority. What stand each of us takes towards  caste reflects on us, but more on our society -- and how unenlightened it is.

Why should we seek to take it on ourselves to decides who highlights or plays down what identity? If I choose to play down certain aspects of my own identity, will you blame me for disguising my own roots? This is something, I feel, best left to each person himself. It is not for us to decide who identity someone else should adopt.

This is like telling a writer, "You should be writing in Konkani, not in English." Who are we to decide?

Besides being unfair on this score, I also feel you might be reading more than is needed into Bonaventure D'Pietro's unusual choice of a stage-name/pen-name in place of his surname. Would you read as much in names like Alfred *Rose*, Vincent *De Saligao*, and the like? Many Goans have changed their names for diverse purposes; in some cases (earlier in the 20th century) it was to possibly get job-preferences as Anglo-Indians. But I don't think your comments on Bonaventura are fair; to me all that matters is that he is a hardworking and talented musician/writer and, above all, also a very nice human being.

FN/Frederick (used to be Frederico... and there's a story behind it too :-) )

On 6 May 2013 22:19, augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

While Joao celebrates his Gawda roots, Bonaventure seeks to disguise his own, to the extent that he has changed his name to the strange D'Pietro. However the last fact may not have been his own decision but that of a forbear intended to avail of the advantages of being an Anglo-Indian.

--
FN  Land +91-832-240-9490 Cell  +91-982-212-2436 f...@goa-india.org

Goa,1556 titles: http://bit.ly/Goa1556Books2

Links to my books: http://fredericknoronha1.wix.com/fngoaindia

Coming soon: http://bit.ly/StrayMangoBranches a new book of short stories.

Special pre-release price till May 31, 2013. Email goa...@gmail.com

[augusto pinto]

Dear Fred

 

Am I to understand that you feel that in this sultry weather GBC has become a bit desultory of late, and you seek to spice things up by raking up a controversy in a manner that cannot but fail: i.e. by flaming Augusto Pinto?

 

I won't disappoint you and will sink to the occasion as you so obviously desire by swallowing your bait without looking any further.

 

I think that when someone masks his identity - he is trying to say something as much as he is trying to hide something. What exactly he wishes to hide may not be quite clear, but he definitely invites others to start asking questions like: What is your real name? Why are you doing this? and so on. I'm not the only who thinks so.

 

On the day of the release of Bonaventure's book where I was present and you had played truant, the chief guest Francis Deputy CM  Babush D'Souza said in his Mhapshekar Konkani that the first thing that he noticed when he picked up 'Sankoll' was the name of the author. "D'Pietro is such a strange name, one that we are not used to... So I asked him how did he get this strange name..."

 

Now whether he has the time to notice anything much about the book is a moot point as I doubt Deputy CMs have the time to read books. For had he just opened the book and looked at the front flap he would have read: Mull nanv: Bonaventure Peter Fernandes. To be fair to Babush, I too had not done earlier what I'm prescribing to him now. ;-)

 

Having said this, I strongly object to you not only taking on the role of judge, jury and executioner but also that of FALSE WITNESS by putting words into my mouth by writing,"Please correct me if I read you wrong, but your mail seem (sic) to take on the role of judge, jury and executioner in what you portray as "seek(ing) to disguise" a caste identity."

 

While I agree that people seek to disguise their identities for different reasons and we should mind our own businesses and not poke our noses into other people's affairs, I feel that human nature being what it is, this is precisely what everyone and not just I will do, and thus the solution, more often than not, only excacerbates the pain and does not solve the original problem. Life is not always just (a better metaphor than fair BTW).

 

Celebrating one's identity may be a more satisfying way of solving the problem especially if one has economic independence to go with it. This path though is fraught with difficulties for this upsets the applecarts of those who are already privileged and are uninterested in giving these up.

 

You drag an unrelated issue into the discussion: "This is like telling a writer, "You should be writing in Konkani, not in English." Who are we to decide?"

 

Readers of GBC may not realize that this comparison has spilled over from a private discussion over a certain writer who writes in English. Dear Fred, since this deals with a different subject I will write about this in a separate post later - hopefully. This post is getting too long.

 

Cheerio

Augusto 

PS: Bosco I don't know how to retrieve the photographs. Any idea what to do?

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[Ben Antao]

Dear Augusto:

 

This “flaming” seems really unnecessary and devoid of logic.

 

Just as a person has a right to change his name or identity, another person also has a right to comment

on that change.

 

Does it make sense to you? 

 

Cheerio

Ben

[augusto pinto]

Dear Ben

You are quite right - in theory - and I acknowledge this in my post. My point is - will anyone allow you to change your identity in Goa? I don't think we are a 'melting pot' even if melting in a pot is a good thing. 

Augusto

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[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎]

On 9 May 2013 22:04, augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:

While I agree that people seek to disguise their identities for different reasons and we should mind our own businesses and not poke our noses into other people's affairs, I feel that human nature being what it is, this is precisely what everyone and not just I will do, and thus the solution, more often than not, only excacerbates the pain and does not solve the original problem. Life is not always just (a better metaphor than fair BTW).

Hi Gusto, 

Without getting into the other issues, permit me to focus on this one paragraph...

Firstly: the word "disguise" is a loaded one. It suggests a deliberate intent to prevent recognition. To obscure. False-show. Mis-representation. Or pretence.... 

People adopt pen-names, pseudonyms or changed names for different reasons, and I believe such a value-judgement is unfair.

Secondly: who are we to sit in judgement? I've heard this argument many times: "Why should a Gaudo be embarassed to be called a Gaudo?" Or, "Why should the name of Mharvaddo be changed to XXXXX XXXX?" But then, if someone is unhappy with the identity a certain word connotes, whose fault is it? Is it also not the responsibility of the stratified caste/class society (which we are all part of)  which so unfairly ascribes superiority or inferiority to certain groups, and then even goes on to blame the victims for the options they exercise?

Aren't we making a lot of assumptions here, which reveal our own bias? Let people choose any identity they are comfortable with, just as we choose our clothes :-) 

And before we throw a stone at a Bonaventura d'Pietro, let's not exclude the Acton Bells, Anatole Frances, Anthony Burgesses, Ayn Rands, Ba Jins, Banaphools, Beach Combers, Chanakyas (Jawaharlal Nehru, no less!), Christopher Pikes, Dr. Seusses, Joseph Conrads, George Eliots, George Orwells, Gulzars (Sampooran Singh Kalra, you might never guess it!),  Hergés, the many Ibn Warraqs (apparently this pen name has traditionally been adopted by dissident authors throughout the history of Islam, including a current writer from India), JK Rowlings, James Herriots, Joseph Conrads, Lewis Carrolls, Maddoxs, Mark Twains,  Molières, and the Voltaires. 

Gusto, would you prefer to read Vladimir Sirin or Vladimir Nobokov and would a Ricardo Eliecer Neftalí Reyes Basoalto sound as good as a Pablo Neruda? To me, a Bonaventura D'Pietro sounds intriguing... and rightly fit to claim the title of the James Hardley Chase of Konkani. (Now, did JHC have a pen-name too?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZcYZnK9SSc

FN

PS: With due apologies for unabashed plagarism to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pen_names

[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎]

On 9 May 2013 22:19, Ben Antao <ben....@rogers.com> wrote:

Just as a person has a right to change his name or identity, another person also has a right to comment

on that change.

Of course! And a third person has a right to continue on the second... 

And so the chain can continue... 

That's what debate is all about. FN

[augusto pinto]

The photographs that were missing are here in an  easily sharable form courtesy Bosco D'Mello

http://bit.ly/GoychoMullAvazBookLaunch

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: JOAO FERNANDES <joao_...@yahoo.com>
To: "mel...@misquita.in" <mel...@misquita.in>; "mel...@misquita.net" <mel...@misquita.net>; "bur...@herald-goa.com" <bur...@herald-goa.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 30 April 2013 8:17 PM
Subject: goycho Mull Avaz, book released.

by John Fernandes,

“Goycho Mull Avaz”  Konkani book written by Adv. Joao Fernandes has been released at the hands of Quepem MLA Shri Chandrakant Kavlekar in presence of Goa Konkani Academy president Shri Pundlik Naik, Goa University professor Alito Siqueira, QMC Vice Chairperson Camilo Simoes, Cultural Artist Josepha Fernandes, Konkani Writer Vincy Quadors, writer of the book Adv. Joao Fernandes and others at Cindio paradise Hall Quepem recently.

            The book Goycho Mull Avaz”  is a compilation of different folk songs,  sung by the Christian Gawda Community on different occasions,   with introduction on  different concept of Gawda Community such as Dhalo, Fugdi, Mand, intruz, Intrumez, Yesre.

 

            Speaking on the occasion Chief Guest and Quepem MLA Shri Chandrakant Kavlekar stated that it is once moral responsibility to work for the community in which one is born. He further stated that even if one  reach at  a higher passion then one  should not forget the  community from which he comes up. He further stated that we should make every attempt to preserve our culture which has history and has been passed on to us by our ancestor. He appreciated the efforts of Adv. Joao Fernandes  in preserving the disappearing cultural heritage of Gawda community and enlightening  the society though his book about the different concept of Gawda community such as mand, Dhalo, Intruz, fugdi etc.

 

            Speaking on the occasion Goa Konkani Academy president Shri Pundalik Naik stated that a person who does not afraids to go into the sludge  goes to the root. He further stated that Goycho Mull Avaz goes to the root of Gawda Community. He further stated that Konkani is the language of the Gawda community and the first right over the Konkani language goes to Gawdas of Goa who are the first settlers  of Goa . He further stated that other communities of Goa  have adopted the Konkani language from the Gawda community. Education shows the light and every educated person should work for the community then only one can say that one is truly educated state Pundlik Naik further. He further stated that some of the Goans have adopted religion of others but they have not adopted their   culture hence the religious leader should not interfere with the culture of the down trodden.

 

            Writer Adv. Joao Fernandes stated that he is proud of his community and will make every effort to preserve the  community culture to  the future generation and Goycho Mull Avaz is one of his effort in that direction. He further stated that the songs which he has complied has the smell of mother earth as in every song there is a reference to different trees. He further stated that it took him 20 years to come out with a book as the has started the work in 1993. He thanks all the folk artist who have contributed in compiling the songs.

            Before the start of the formal function a cultural folk dances such as Dhalo, Fugdi, Intrumez songs were presented and the guest were welcomed by a traditional Tribal  song called “Yesre” which the Gawda community use to sung at the time of welcoming the newly wedded couple on the day of the marriage.

 

The other who spoke on the occasion include prof. Alito Siqueira, QMC Vice Chairperson Camilo Simoes. Writer Vincy Quadros spoke on the book, Pobre Fernandes welcome the guest.   Salvador Rebello introduce the guest, Ulhas Gaonkar compare the function while Freeds D’Costa proposed vote of thanks.

 

Photo annexed. photo 1, young girl danging the Kannar Khell, Photo 2. women folk playing Dhalo,

Photo 3 women folk dancing while singing intrumez song,  photo 4 welcoming the gues by singing welcoming song called yesre, photo 5 and 8  , guest welcomed on the bit of drum, photo 6 women folk in a row to welcome guest , photo 7 book release,  photo 9  women folk in a line to welcone the guest,

 

--


Augusto Pinto
40, Novo Portugal
Moira, Bardez
Goa, India
E pint...@gmail.com
P 0832-2470336
M 9881126350

[jose fernandes]

Dears, 

While discussing all this, it looks Augusto Pinto is having Konknni in Devnagari and Romi script in the background, and so he is 'melting' very easily when it comes to 'Gõycho Mull Avaz.' - the book written in Devnagari.  'Sankoll' also tries to go deep down the cultural roots of christian goan weddings in different talukas of Goa, which Augusto-bab will come to know only after reading the novel, if at all he has bought the novel on the day of release.

Jose Salvador Fernandes

                

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:29 PM, augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[augusto pinto]

Manest Salu-bab

I bought not one but three copies of the novel on the day of its release, two of which will go to my friends. 

As regards  Konknni in Devanagari or Romi script I'd like you to know that I am not a fanatic, and in fact I'm more comfortable reading the Roman script. I also agree that a lot of research  must have been done and that  "'Sankoll' also tries to go deep down the cultural roots of christian goan weddings in different talukas". 

My problem is that as researched information, I did not find it very thrilling at first browsing, because while it tries to document different wedding customs in different places in Goa, it appears to me that he avoids the issue of WHY these customs arise. What I'm hinting at ia that I suspect he has evaded the issus caste and tribe and religion which is precisely the reason why many of the differences occur. The research is thus useful but is superficial and of limited appeal.

And if at all I have'nt been commenting too much about Sankoll as a novel, it's because the author seems too busy tryiing to stuff all his research into the  plot and the poor thing has become so heavy it just does not move. And so it is a bit boring to read as a novel Jose-bab. (A piece of advice to all fiction writers here:  fiction is as educative as non-fiction, but paradoxically it is at its educative best when it avoids trying to be preachy.) 

Now let me admit Salu-bab that what I'm saying here are still all first impressions, or as you would have it - "kadli jibli, layli tallyeak" ( I love the phrase - for the English'wallahs here - it means 'He pulls out his tongue and stuffs it down his listener's throat") because I still have not bothered to open the book and re-read it. So Salu-bab in case I have made some mistakes please correct me.

Really I must try and curb this rash and arrogant habit of shooting from the hip, but while readers like me should be more responsible, I also think writers should work hard to ensure that they grab and hold the attention of their readers.

 

Augusto

[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎]

Dear Augusto, If I understood right, you're completely missing Jose Salvador's point. What Jose seemed to be implying is that you're positively pre-disposed towards Devanagari and not-so towards Romi script Konkani. In return, you have gone on to critique what you see as the flaws in Sankoll, and completely avoided responding to the above issue.

Frankly, I too got a similar impression going by your earlier comments, which seemed quite dismissive of Romi. I fail to see how any writing can be dismissed so perfunctorily. That too, one which has played a role over the centuries -- whether we currently like its political impact or not.

In fact, if I recall rightly, I had compared your attitude to that of Thomas Babington Macaulay, 1st Baron Macaulay PC (25 October 1800 -- 28 December 1859), the British historian and Whig politician. He is supposed to have once said: "I have never found one among them who could deny that a single shelf of a good European library was worth the whole native literature of India and Arabia." Or words to those effects....

My questions therefore are (1) Are you, even if subconsciously, being dismissive of one trend in Goan writing in Konkani as against the other? (2) If so, is it possible that you're comparing apples and oranges, classical dance and lavani, two forms of writing which are targeted at totally different social classes and have very differing trajectories, roots and origins? (3) Further, would this not be a form of caste bias itself, because assumptions are involved on our part, without us taking into account who is producing these literatures and for whom?

As for your comments on Sankoll, going only by what has been said here (I have not read the book) I see another kind of problem here. We seem to be judging writing, or books meant for a general audience, from the perspective of sociology. Should this always be so? What if caste was not touched on? Would it be an entirely valueless work?

We want our own biases and needs to be reflected in what the author chose to highlight. So, if caste is not touched on there, then we choose that one point to go for the work. But the author is the author, and the reviewer is the reviewer. Why do we expect the first to take on the concerns of the second?

At the end of the day, this field is subjective enough for us to first decide whether we like a work or not, and then go out of our way to find the evidence to back up our bias. Yet, it is well know that works which the reviewers have rubbished can do quite well with the market. There even was a newspaper film-critic, who would rubbish film after film till he went on to make a disaster of a movie or two himself.

I think Jose Salvador just might have a point. Lastly, I would not agree that a form of writing which fits in more closely with global paradigms and formulas is superior, just because it does so. FN

PS: I also feel 'preachy' is indeed a loaded word. What you don't like is "preachy". What I like is committed writing, a short story with a moral, the making of a point, being aptly didactic, or even being a bit anvilicious.

FN
--------

JOSE SALVADOR WROTE: While discussing all this, it looks Augusto Pinto is having Konknni in Devnagari and Romi script in the background, and so he is 'melting' very easily when it comes to 'Gõycho Mull Avaz.' - the book written in Devnagari.  'Sankoll' also tries to go deep down the cultural roots of christian goan weddings in different talukas of Goa, which Augusto-bab will come to know only after reading the novel, if at all he has bought the novel on the day of release.

--
FN  Land +91-832-240-9490 Cell  +91-982-212-2436 f...@goa-india.org

Goa,1556 titles: http://bit.ly/Goa1556Books2

Links to my books: http://fredericknoronha1.wix.com/fngoaindia

Coming soon: http://bit.ly/StrayMangoBranches a new book of short stories.

Special pre-release price till May 31, 2013. Email goa...@gmail.com

[augusto pinto]

On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 12:34 AM, Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا <frederic...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Augusto, If I understood right, you're completely missing Jose Salvador's point.

Manest Freddy-bab, this time you're not just playing your old game of stuffing my mouth with your words to damn me, but you've gone one step further - you're stuffing Salu-bab's mouth with your words to damn me.

Why don't you allow him to say what he wants if he does so? Why are you trying to act as an advocate for Salu? Are you condescendingly suggesting in some way that the Secretary of the Dalgado Konkani Academy is incapable of defending himself if he feels attacked?  Anyone would suspect that there is something that does not meet the eye for you to fire off Salu-bab's shoulder. Have you ever had any grant from the Dalgado Konkani Akademy recently by any chance? Or are you likely to get one in the future?

What Jose seemed to be implying is that you're positively pre-disposed towards Devanagari and not-so towards Romi script Konkani.

Let me see. I subscribe to Vavradeancho Ixtt, Goan Review and Gulab, whereas I do off and on check out Jaag from the college library. What would that suggest of my pre-dispositions? Obviously when it comes to script I prefer the Roman script. And as for my favorite writers in Konkani - Pundalik Naik, Jayanti Naik, Damodar Mauzo, Vincy Quadros, Jose Lourenco - all write in Romi as well as Devanagri. I think your roundhouse punches are ill directed.

 

In return, you have gone on to critique what you see as the flaws in Sankoll, and completely avoided responding to the above issue.

 

Manest Freddy-bab don't you think this sentence is nonsense given my response to your previous sentence? However to be frank I did not want to make any remark about Sankoll initially because I think it was not worth it, and did so only because Salu seemed to suggest that I was ignoring Sankoll and glorifying Goyncho Mull Avaz.
 

Frankly, I too got a similar impression going by your earlier comments, which seemed quite dismissive of Romi.

Which earlier comments are you referring to? Look I am not dismissive of a script, whether Romi or Devanagari - I have said many times before that any script can be used to express the ideas of any dialect. Neither am I dismissive of people on account of their caste or religion just in case you might wish to say this by some chance.
 

I fail to see how any writing can be dismissed so perfunctorily. That too, one which has played a role over the centuries -- whether we currently like its political impact or not.

 

Oh God - though I'm an agnostic please come to my aid here! How am I supposed to defend myself when I have not allegedly 'dismissed' anything 'perfunctorily'? If I have criticized Sankoll  I have done so with reason.

In fact, if I recall rightly, I had compared your attitude to that of Thomas Babington Macaulay, 1st Baron Macaulay PC (25 October 1800 -- 28 December 1859), the British historian and Whig politician. He is supposed to have once said: "I have never found one among them who could deny that a single shelf of a good European library was worth the whole native literature of India and Arabia." Or words to those effects....

 

Manest Freddy-bab I am very proud to be compared to the great Lord Macaulay, but what exactly have I done to deserve this honor?

My questions therefore are (1) Are you, even if subconsciously, being dismissive of one trend in Goan writing in Konkani as against the other?

 

Manest Freddy-bab I am not being 'dismissive' of any 'trend' of Konkani. If I criticize someone I offer reasons for this. Please address the reasons, but first at the very least browse through the work at issue and better still read it cover to cover.

(2) If so, is it possible that you're comparing apples and oranges, classical dance and lavani, two forms of writing which are targeted at totally different social classes and have very differing trajectories, roots and origins?

 

Given my previous answer, may I be excused from answering this inane question Manest Freddy-bab? Given that you have admittedly not read what has been written I don't want to see off all these blind swipes.

(3) Further, would this not be a form of caste bias itself, because assumptions are involved on our part, without us taking into account who is producing these literatures and for whom?

 

Manest Freddy-bab, into which gully are you taking me? Are you going to rape me there? Are you inoculated against AIDS? May I suggest you read what has been written, then understand why I write what I write and then comment. Otherwise all these questions are merely flame baits.

As for your comments on Sankoll, going only by what has been said here (I have not read the book) I see another kind of problem here.

 

I suggest you should at least browse through the book. You are committing a greater sin than me by seeing problems about a book you haven't even opened.
 

We seem to be judging writing, or books meant for a general audience, from the perspective of sociology. Should this always be so?

 

There is no prescription as to how we should read books. We can judge books according to any perspective we choose - there is no right or wrong. So if we choose Sociology or Philosophy or History or Aesthetics Western or Aesthetics Indian or Simply Good Old Common Sense  - nobody can stop anyone from choosing that perspective

What if caste was not touched on? Would it be an entirely valueless work?

I've read Sankoll through at least two perspectives: that of the sociological and that of the aesthetic and faulted them on both regards. Please address the arguments I make and stop arguing for argument's sake or to get in the good books of someone.

 

We want our own biases and needs to be reflected in what the author chose to highlight. So, if caste is not touched on there, then we choose that one point to go for the work. But the author is the author, and the reviewer is the reviewer. Why do we expect the first to take on the concerns of the second?

 

Manest Freddy-bab I am getting tired of being misrepresented and then having to defend myself against your nonsense. Can I skip this one?

At the end of the day, this field is subjective enough for us to first decide whether we like a work or not, and then go out of our way to find the evidence to back up our bias. Yet, it is well know that works which the reviewers have rubbished can do quite well with the market. There even was a newspaper film-critic, who would rubbish film after film till he went on to make a disaster of a movie or two himself.

 

Is this supposed to be an argument Manest Freddy-bab? Am I expected to take it on?
 

I think Jose Salvador just might have a point.

 

If Jose Salvador has a point then he will tell us what it is. Don't trivialize other people's arguments - even if you have a vested interest in appearing supportive.
 

Lastly, I would not agree that a form of writing which fits in more closely with global paradigms and formulas is superior, just because it does so.

FN

At last you have finished, even if it is with something that does not make sense. With whom are you not agreeing that "a form of writing which fits in more closely with global paradigms and formulas is superior, just because it does so" Did I say anything of the sort? I'm pretty sure I did not. I don't even know what this means.

PS: I also feel 'preachy' is indeed a loaded word. What you don't like is "preachy". What I like is committed writing, a short story with a moral, the making of a point, being aptly didactic, or even being a bit anvilicious.

Gawd!!! Manest Freddy-bab - I thought you had finished. Why are you telling me this you young er...? Does this have any relation what I have to say? If you want to seriously engage with the issue of didacticism in fiction or non-fiction I would direct you to Wayne Booth's The Rhetoric of Fiction. If you want to trivialize my arguments and score brownie points in order to look good before the DKA feel free. They may even decide to print a book or two with you.

Warm regards
Augusto

[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎]

Hi Gusto,

I will overlook the fact that the main thrust of your argument seems to be the insinuation that I'm supporting Jose Salvador's point because I want to curry favour with the Dalgado Konkani Academy.  Just whom are you learning your debating from?

Elementary Logic, dear Gutson, teaches us to be wary of the ad hominem. In this case, you are attacking my motives. Please respond to my argument. If you have proof to show us that you're not summarily dismissing Romi Konkani writing, then show. Don't tell.

I like your poetic language too; but then the excessive use of this (Manest Freddy-bab raised to the power of seven) is it not another example of fallacious arguments. Can we please go beyond argument by slogan?

As they of old would say: Kondo galun thav poleta

So bring us back to the topic, let me focus on the main points which I think you chose to smartly not catch:

* Let's leave aside what Jose Salvador is or is not saying. Let's avoid the excuse of getting trapped in the labyrinths of excessive argument. Now: I myself say that you're too dismissive of one section of Konkani writing from Goa. Given its one-time popularity, viability and diversity, I find it difficult to accept such a blanket dismissive attitude.

* Could this possibly be a problem of vision, how we view things, and our own shortcomings?

* (And since you like quoting authority), Professor Kapil Kapoor has argued, in some other context, that Indian academics are sometimes facing "a spirit of self-denigration (heenabhavna)". Is it at all possible that the this bitterness within the Konkani world has left behind an equal आत्म - बदनामी of the linguistic kind? Or can we just put it down to Macaulism, 21st century style :-)

What say you? FN

PS: I got this note -- as you probably did:

Dear 'Freddy bab' and Agusto,

Thanks for filling a very dreary Saturday afternoon with lots of laughs! Really enjoyed the retorts.

You guys should write a tiatr script.;-)

Now do you think that smacks of looking down on the tiatr?

[Jose Colaco]

FN's Hi Gusto and dear Gutson was possibly in response to Augusto's Manet Freddy-bab.
I personally understood them to be pleasantries, possibly with a tiny bit of piri piri.

FN, however, made a very useful suggestion: " Let's avoid the excuse of getting trapped in the labyrinths of excessive argument"

I agree with that 133%

What I found a wee bit puzzling, however, is the following from FN to Augusto:" If you have proof to show us that you're not summarily dismissing Romi Konkani writing, then show. Don't tell"

COMMENT: That IMHO is not an appropriately constructed invitation. It is similar to 'prove that you are not beating your wife'.

Suffice it for FN to prove that Augusto is 'summarily dismissing Romi Konkani writing' , and then leave it to Augusto to explain his position. Based on the evidence, the Jury will decide.

All that having been noted, I wish you guys a happy Sunday and a very good week ahead.

best

jc

[augusto pinto]

http://goastreets.com/arts-and-entertainment/the-song-of-the-gauddo/

Women in bright white and red costumes dance around a pestle, pounding imaginary grain as they sing and tell of happenings in the village and of their young ones who have come of age. The throbbing of local drums, the ghumot and madallem keeps up a lively rhythm.

Kannar Khell, a Gaudda tribal dance was just one of many colourful performances by men and women of the local Gaudda community at the launch of Goencho Mull Avaz, a book on the Gaudda tribal culture by Joao Fernandes on 28^th April at Quepem.

The Dhalo dance was performed next, a thanksgiving for a good harvest. Two lines of women with hands woven around each others’ waists dance to and fro. The fugddi is is a quick paced circular dance. The Intrumez performance, a unique Gauddi tradition, would take place during weddings and chapel feasts. The esre is an invocation and blessing for a newly wedded couple. At the book launch event it was performed as the guests entered the venue.

The Gauddi sari or kapodd, worn by the women, has a distinct red and white pattern. The denttli, a knot for the pallu (sari end) which is usually thrown loosely over the shoulder, ensures that it doesn’t come undone when working in the paddy fields. Its hem is knee high, also a practical necessity.

 

A line of Dhalo dancers

Jaki ‘Nadd’ Fernandes, a bespectacled and bald man, played the madhallem (double-ended drum), gumot and kasallem (cymbals). Inacinha Fernandes, 75, showed great stamina as she sang her heart out. There was a friendly informal spirit in the Intrumez singing. The drummers went off beat at one point and were scolded by the singing women.

After many years of activism for his community through GAKUVED , a body of Gaudda, Kunbi, Velip and Dhangar tribes, and the Christian Adivasi group, Joao Fernandes, a stalwart of the Gaudda community of Ambaulim, Quepem, wanted to do more to document and preserve their tribal culture. He had been recording the Gauddi songs and dances since 1993.

“I am proud to be a Gauddo,” said Joao, a practising lawyer. “We must progress through education and we must also preserve our songs. There is mention of various trees and herbs in our songs. The kindall, gutka, rhumodd…these are our medicines. The smell of the earth and water of the hills, these are all embodied in our songs. These are all our wealth and we must safeguard them. Look at our mothers are strong, they can sing and dance even in their seventies.”

The book contains the lyrics of the songs and commentary by Joao. Colourful photographs of the dances and rituals adorn the book and a glossary is also included. The text is in the Devanagri script, but great care has been taken to ensure that the phonetics of the Gaudda dialect are kept intact. The book has been published with support from the Department of Art & Culture.

Vincy Quadros, a Konkani writer, spoke on the book. “This book has opened doors to this heritage. People who do not know their heritage are like trees without roots. The dominance of the English language often takes people away from their roots. Joao has recorded the songs of his village, but many more songs exist in other villages and they too must be documented.”

Pobre Fernandes, a poet, observed that in Dandeli, Karnataka, the tribals there still wear flowers in their hair and sport a tikli on their forehead when they go for mass, but in Goa tribal people shy from these traditions.

 

Joao Fernandes (extreme right) with musicians and singers

“After harvesting the women would all break into song and dance and their tiredness would go away,” said Pobre. “All villagers used to coordinate the harvesting of their parcels of land, so that all benefitted. Today there is no unity, we have become selfish, we harvest without thinking of the neighbour. If he cannot harvest along with me, his fields will be trampled by cows. In the past we used to consider each other’s needs.”

Josefa Fernandes, a village elder, when asked to speak, broke into song. She sang of getting married, of carrying pez (rice gruel) to the paddy fields, and of her father who worked hard to bring them up. If the world is to be made a better place, let’s grow our fields, she sang.

Pundalik Naik, President of Goa Konkani Academy, noted that at the evening’s dances there were teenagers dancing along with the older men and women, an encouraging sign that the culture was being passed on to the next generations.  The Gauddas, the original settlers of Goa, are the true custodians and guardians of Konkani language, he said.

“We call our ancestors illiterate. But their methodical agriculture, their irrigation systems, the use of herbal medicine, and the ambil diet show that they were an advanced people,” said Naik. He sang a line from a fugdi – “Hadd ek kudoll, mar re dempo, roi tulsi rompo” (Fetch a spade, dig a mound, plant a basil) – that showed they knew that tulsi plants kept away mosquitoes.  He also urged the temple and church authorities to allow the tribal people to continue with their traditions like maandd (ritual space), devchar (spirit) and sur-rontt (offering to spirits), as Hinduism and Christianity should accept people along with their original cultures.

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[Ilidio Borges]

Thanks for the clarification regarding gottn'ga zadd, a medicinal plant. 

Gutka (crushed areca nut, tobacco,etc), on the other hand is a banned product being one of the causes of oral cancer. 

Regards,

Ilidio

On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 10:26 PM, jose <joselour...@gmail.com> wrote:

A small correction - 'gutka' tree should read 'gotting' tree. I had called Joao to check on what I thought I had heard as gutka/gotka in his speech and he said its 'gott'nga zadd'. But in the editing flurry of production, gutka slipped through.  Still not sure of what tree 'gotting' is. Will correct web version of story. Else people will think gutka grows on trees in Goa. 

Regards

Jose Lourenco

  

On Sunday, May 12, 2013 2:14:14 PM UTC+5:30, augusto wrote:

Women in bright white and red costumes dance around a pestle, pounding imaginary grain as they sing and tell of happenings in the village and of their young ones who have come of age. The throbbing of local drums, the ghumot and madallem keeps up a lively rhythm.

“I am proud to be a Gauddo,” said Joao, a practising lawyer. “We must progress through education and we must also preserve our songs. There is mention of various trees and herbs in our songs. The kindall, gutka, rhumodd…these are our medicines. The smell of the earth and water of the hills, these are all embodied in our songs. These are all our wealth and we must safeguard them. Look at our mothers are strong, they can sing and dance even in their seventies.”

[Rafael Fernandes]

'Gotting' or "guttik' produces small fruits. The outer cover of the nut is fleshy which animals such as goats nibble.The casing is hard. The flesh inside is oily.  Not more than 2-3 nuts should  be eaten at a time as they are considered to be 'strong' . Such advice also holds good for nuts from the  Cow's-foot tree {Santam rukh- the tree in front of churches/chapels where the saint's picture/banner is put up before the  feast.}. Unfortunately both kinds of trees have been rampantly cut in many places.