Vavradeancho Ixtt

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augusto pinto

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May 19, 2020, 7:30:25 AM5/19/20
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After many days of the lockdown, the Vavradeancho Ixtt, (Workers' Friend) came to my home today.

Published by the Pilar society, it says it is Goa's only Konkani weekly since 1933.

I don't usually look too closely at it because the articles are mostly about saintly thongs and I have more affinities with the Devil, but the issue I got has an article which caught my eye. 

It's titled Anak poddlan anachem, Bhereak poddlan aplea kanachem by Myron Jeson Barreto. I  burst out laughing when I read it.

I'll leave Walter Menezes to translate this into English for you. 
Best 
Augusto 

walter menezes

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May 19, 2020, 2:58:01 PM5/19/20
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Mogall Augusto,

Same here in Kepem. The postman came with the latest issue of V Ixtt today. This was the first time that we were seeing him after nearly two months.

The title of [Fr] Myron's article is actually a proverb. It is mentioned thus in Konknni Oparinchem Bhanddar, The Treasury of Konknni Proverbs, by Fr Antonio Pereira, SJ:

Anak poddlam Anachem, bhereak poddlam kanachem - Ana is interested in her own affairs,and the deaf in his ears. Zonn iekleak ap-apleachem poddlam.
Oslich ani ieki opar asa: Anak poddlam tutlolea kanachem, ani ximreak* poddlam aplea nakachem - Kan ani nak katortat tednam hi opar martat, zonn ieklo ap-aplea dukhant gul'l zata: 'Apunn apnnak, Dev somestank.'

[* ximro = snuffer]

...and some information about Vauraddeancho Ixtt, Augusto, as it appears in Prof. Dr. Olivinho Gomes' book, Konknni Literature in Roman Script - A Brief History:

Vauraddeancho Ixtt (The Workers' Friend) was brought out as a weekly initially by Fr. Arsenio Lucio Fernandes from Margao-Goa, printed in the press interestingly called Filha, Esposa e Mae meaning 'Daughter, Wife and Mother'. This was the title in Portuguese of a quarterly women's magazine that dealt with issues relating to home and society, with a section in Konkani as well, edited by Mrs. Lucia Vas e Lima,from Margao, printed in the Nacional printing press and later in its own press, from October, 1927 to December, 1938, with an aggregate of 44 issues published while it lasted.

The Vauraddeancho Ixtt weekly in Konkani and Portuguese, to begin with, began with its first issue that was published on 20.12.1933. Its owner continued to be Fr. Fernandes, with Mons. Graciano Morais (1904-1969), later lecturer in Konkani at the Higher Colonial School of Lisbon University, becoming its editor, from that time, and continuing in that position for well nigh 22 years, it being published then from Rachol Seminary. Later it passed into the hands and became the organ of the indigenous missionary Goan Society of St. Francis Xavier, also known as the Pilar Fathers... 


walter



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augusto pinto

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May 20, 2020, 12:57:16 PM5/20/20
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Mogall Walter,

I can translate the proverb as well as anyone else but I was curious to know whether you would swallow my 'Ana' bait. You did although in your response you cleverly sought the escape route of quoting the good Antonio Pereira S. J.

There's a word in English called 'bowdlerize' which means to remove material that is considered improper or offensive in a text. Now I don't wish to question the scholarship of the learned priest but if you ask me he was a bowdlerizer and this weakens his work.

Old Konkani phrases and idioms are very earthy and quite often refer to body parts like penises and vaginas and anuses and to to physical acts like excreting and having sex.

I'm sure you know as much as the priest that the 'Ana' being spoken about are testicles. At best the person Ana might be an idiomatic pun. 

We modern people have lost some of the funny crudeness of our ancestors. In a way it's a pity.

Best 
Augusto 

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antonio CABA

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May 20, 2020, 12:57:16 PM5/20/20
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Walterbab, there are some big yawning gaps in your historical note on Vavreaddeancho Ixtt. You say it started in Margao. Good. Then you say it was published from Rachol. You have not told us how it landed in Rachol. After that you say it passed on into the hands of the indigenous Society. How? You  have failed to trace its journey to Pilar. I hope you will do a little bit more research and give us the pleasure of knowing it’s complete history. Somehow or the other research is one area in which we are quite backward. 
R. Cabral

walter menezes

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May 22, 2020, 7:04:14 AM5/22/20
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Mogall Augusto,

I was stumped by your 'bowdlerizing' theory. I said, why would Fr Antonio Pereira indulge in such an exercise? I therefore sought some expert advice and this is what Prof. S. M. Borges has to say about it:

I have not made any study of Fr. Pereira's works; hence unable to comment on Augusto's remark that he was given to bowdlerizing.

To my mind, Augusto's contention is too far-fetched. Assuming that it is correct (and we do have many adages which are risque), how does he read the proverb? (a) Anddak poddlam anddachem, (b) Anddak poddlam Anachem or (c) Anak poddlam anddachem? And what meaning does he attribute to it? Moreover, if the word is "anddachem" then it does not rhyme with "kanachem".

I think the problem lies elsewhere, i.e. the habit of Bardesi Christians of pronouncing a medial n as nn and (in common with Antruzi Goans) of pronouncing ndd also as nn. At Chowgule College, I had a colleague (Prof. Patrick Ferdinand) hailing from Siolim. For him "min" (mine) and "mindd" (paramour) were both "minn". Perhaps Augusto reads the proverb as "Annak poddlam annachem....." and then assumes that "ann" means testicle. But, as stated above, "annachem" does not rhyme with "kanachem" unless here too he reads the word as "kannachem" which then would mean something else altogether.

Over to you, Augusto!

walter



augusto pinto

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May 22, 2020, 12:15:18 PM5/22/20
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Mogall Walter-bab
There are two contentions in your mail. 

1) Firstly you say that you don't know why Pereira would bowdlerize. Why does anyone bowdlerize? Look at the Wikipedia entry regarding why Thomas Bowdler did his Family Shakespeare: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_Shakespeare

Pereira most likely did it for the same reason - that the book is aimed at a family readership. But thankfully his bowdlerisms are mostly in the English and Konkani glosses while he left the original Konkani saying as it is, although the spellings he used may be questionable perhaps. 

However when I went to Pereira's Konknni Oparinchem Bhanddar I found also that a lot of original Konkani sayings which refer to other intimate bodily parts that I recall coming across in other books missing. When I have the time and when things are better I'll check and let you know. 

However I skimmed through Pereira looking for such words and idioms and I'll give some below with his English glosses and with my comments below. 

1) Poixile dongor sazre, lagxille dongor hagre.
The far away hills are beautiful, the nearby hills are ugly. (page 3)

Comment: Does hagre mean 'ugly' or does it mean 'shitty' - a place where people go to shit, as was the case in the days of old when open defecation was very common. And the hills were preferred. Not that this has completely disappeared, say what the government might. 

2) Kam naslolo allsari baileche kule taxi khoim.
An idle carpenter was scraping the hips of his wife. (page 6)

Comment: Does kule mean hips or does it mean 'buttocks'? And please tell me what exactly does a  carpenter scrape in the buttock area of his wife? Could it be possibly be that the carpenter was idle because he preferred some fun with his wife than to work? 

3) Devachi geli ghantt zalear, pujareachem gelem xentt. 
The priest does not care if the bell of the temple is lost. (page 10)

Comment: Why does Pereira omit glossing the literal meaning of gelem xentt. Which is that the pujari (priest) won't lose a single 'pubic hair' if someone steals the temple bell. 

4) Khoim go veta? Korjue. Mhojeim khorjolem. 
Where are you going? I too go to Corjuem. (page 13 - 14)

Comment: The gloss is completely wrong although Pereira does comment on the fact that the idiom turns on a pun on the word Corjuem, an island in Aldona. 

The pun is on the word khorjue which means 'let's scratch' or 'to scratch' . Therefore a better gloss would be: "Where are you going dear?" "Corjuem." "(To scratch?) Mine's itching as well." 

Obviously, this is a sexual proposition! 


5) Gandd dhuvun koddi korta. 
No English gloss offered by Pereira. At another place however Pereira glosses gandd as buttocks (page 65.)

Comment: The bowdler in Pereira was too embarrassed to gloss gandd as bum or arse or anus. The idiom means: 'She makes curry with the water she uses to wash her bum.' 

This idiom was used to mock a woman very poor but who put on airs. Gandd incidentally doesn't mean buttocks but bum or arse. 

2) Secondly you quoted Prof S. M. Borges who asked me how I would interpret the idiom and gave me a long lecture. 

But Prof. Borges' lecture  turns on the question of Roman script Konkani orthography as well as dialects. 

Now I am no expert of Konkani but I know enough to say that it is still in a evolving state of affairs. 

Why does he so confidently state that his own spelling and dialect and pronunciation is correct while Patrick Ferdinand who was an English teacher from Bardez like me is wrong? 

For Roman script Konkani, is there something like a French Academy  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_Fran%C3%A7aise to decree what is right and wrong? 

As regards Pereira's orthography he gives the impression that he transcribes things as he hears them and he also transcribes idioms of different places and dialects, some as far away as Kerala. 

Anyway since the ldarned Prof. asks me, without prooffering his own opinion, let me hazard that the best reading of the idiom without changing Pereira's spelling would be '(All that Ms.) Ana is anxious about (are) testicles (ie. having sex) while the deaf man is worried about his ears. 

I'd go for this reading because of the parallelism between Ana and the deaf man; and her love for testicles and his concerns for his ears. If Ana is an unfaithful wife and the deaf man is her husband who turns a deaf ear to his wife's affairs, this makes sense. 

All yours Walter, and by extension Prof. Borges. Perhaps you can offer some better evidence! 

Best, 
Augusto 
 









augusto pinto

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May 22, 2020, 12:15:18 PM5/22/20
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Oops... I wrote "ldarned Prof" I meant "learned Prof. Sorry.
Augusto 

walter menezes

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May 24, 2020, 8:57:28 AM5/24/20
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Mogall Augusto,

Thank you for your meticulous reply.

Could Ana be the unfaithful wife and the 'bhero' her husband? Interesting possibility but a bit early (in my case) to buy it.

Like you, I quickly leafed through the pages of Fr. Antonio Pereira's book of Konkani proverbs and found that, contrary to your charge, he may not have intentionally indulged in bowdlerizing.

Here are 10 proverbs (there could be some more) from the book:

1.      Ganddhik nam falli, gandd magta kailloili – The buttocks are not even covered, the woman wants sweet cakes. Hispabhair axea. (page 8) 

2.      Cheddiek chandneacho usko – The prostitute is anxious about the moonlight. Vaitt ostori bhair sorunk chandneachea uzvaddak ravta. Zaiteo amcheo opareo patkacher ani galliam-fosteancher gunvtat, zaiteo raga-fogachea kallar upzoleat. Cheddi hem vaitt utor! (p 9)

3.      Avoi morta dhuvekodden, dhuv morta ganvchea minddakodden – The mother dots on her daughter, but the daughter dots on her village paramour. Maink visrun, mogiak bhulta. Oxem zaum-noie. (p 15)

4.      Hatant na xentt, bhonvta soglli pentt – He has not a farthing but goes about the whole bazar. Poixe nastanam aponn vhoddlo bazar korunk bhonvta mhonn dakhoita taka hi opar laitat. (p 28)

5.      Chorak dhorcho luttir, ani xindolleak dhorcho khattir – Catch a thief with his plunder and a whore on bed. Xindoll mhonnje dusreache ostoreche khattir nidta to. Chorak ani xindolleak oi’n tea vellar dhorunk zai. (p 38)

6.      Dublleak xenttam bhov – Poor people have too many children. Dubllo lok apli famil favo tedich dovorina, xendre pormannem paim soddina. (p 80)

7.      Cheddi mhatari zaleari, potivrata zata? – Can a harlot be called a chaste woman when she becomes old? Gunn ani ovgunn urta, soimb ani sonvoi sompeponnim bodolna. (p 85)

8.      Khaunchem ghovachem, ani gheunchem minddachem – To eat from one’s husband, and suffer from the lover. Zonn iekle bailen aplea ghovachem khaunk zai ani sosunkui zai, dusrea mon’xeak poro korunk zai. (p 138)

9.      Khaprea, pil zait? Atam mhojea bhonkant ghal – Nigger, do you need a chicken soup? Put it in my anus. Ieku khapri morta astanam, tachea dhonian tache lagim kombiecho kald zai zalear vicharlem; tannem mhonnlem: atam mhaka naka, bhonkant ghal. Hi opar Fransezint ani Castelhan bhaxent asa. Soglle bhasamnim galliancheo opareo asat. (p 202)

10.  Lognachea boballan, telan lumbli – In the hurry of wedding, a woman washed the anus with oil. Taktichea vellar legit mon thondd dovorchem. Latint: Festina lente. Hasten slowly. Sovkas dhanv. (p 223)

My comments: From anus and buttocks to prostitutes and village paramours, you find them all as Fr. Pereira tries to translate the Konkani proverbs into English. The only exception is in the case of xenttam (see proverb 4 and 6). A literal translation is really not needed here, I think. But you can always correct me. Your comments about the carpenter and his wife’s kule, mentioned as ‘hips’...a typo, maybe?


I have forwarded your response to Prof. S M Borges. If and when he replies, I will surely keep you informed.

Just a thought...this could well become the basis of a meaningful article on a specific Konkani proverb. Don't know if such an exercise has happened before.

walter

augusto pinto

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May 24, 2020, 12:22:29 PM5/24/20
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You are right Walter and I too realised that Pe. Antonio let certain 'opparis' through because he felt that it didn't hit at his mainly middle-class, family readership.

It's pretty late in the night now in Moira and I need to go to sleep now but when I wake up I'll try to give you a more sane response Walter. Just wait. 

Best wishes
Augusto 

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augusto pinto

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May 24, 2020, 2:00:30 PM5/24/20
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Walter-bab,

I'm not getting sleep because of your post so I might as well as reply. 

Now itself. 

Look in line. If 


On Sun, 24 May, 2020, 6:27 PM 'walter menezes' via The Goa Book Club, <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Mogall Augusto,

Thank you for your meticulous reply.

Could Ana be the unfaithful wife and the 'bhero' her husband? Interesting possibility but a bit early (in my case) to buy it.
Take your time, Walter-bab and come up with a more convincing explanation. I am not the person to stand on ceremony. If you come up with a more convincing explanation then I will admit I was wrong. 

Like you, I quickly leafed through the pages of Fr. Antonio Pereira's book of Konkani proverbs and found that, contrary to your charge, he may not have intentionally indulged in bowdlerizing.

He was. However he did allow a few 'gannds' and 'chedis' to go through because these buttocks (as he translates 'gannd' which means arsehole) don't hit at the family audiences he's cultivating. 

Here are 10 proverbs (there could be some more) from the book:

1.      Ganddhik nam falli, gandd magta kailloili – The buttocks are not even covered, the woman wants sweet cakes. Hispabhair axea. (page 8) 

This particular 'oppar' doesn't hit at his family audiences so Pereira let's it through. His gloss is awful. 

A better gloss would be: "The bitch has nothing to cover her arse and she still has the gall to demand sweets." 

2.      Cheddiek chandneacho usko – The prostitute is anxious about the moonlight. Vaitt ostori bhair sorunk chandneachea uzvaddak ravta. Zaiteo amcheo opareo patkacher ani galliam-fosteancher gunvtat, zaiteo raga-fogachea kallar upzoleat. Cheddi hem vaitt utor! (p 9)


This. one is more or less okay. Yes, 'cheddie' refers more or less to prostitute. 

Still I think that this is not quite right. The 'cheddie' refered to isn't exactly a commercial sex worker but rather a woman who has sex with whomsoever she wants. That's why the moonlight is important for her. If she was a prostitute what difference would the light of the moon make? 

3.      Avoi morta dhuvekodden, dhuv morta ganvchea minddakodden – The mother dots on her daughter, but the daughter dots on her village paramour. Maink visrun, mogiak bhulta. Oxem zaum-noie. (p 15)


Walter, this is another one which I noticed, but it was both too simple and too complicated to comment upon. 

The mother doting upon her daughter who dotes upon her paramours may proffer an insight into those old days but what else? 

4.      Hatant na xentt, bhonvta soglli pentt – He has not a farthing but goes about the whole bazar. Poixe nastanam aponn vhoddlo bazar korunk bhonvta mhonn dakhoita taka hi opar laitat. (p 28)

What rubbish isbthis? 

If  either Antonio Pereira or indeed Walter were sharp, they would have said that the gloss would be: His hand roams all over his trousers looking for money, even when he knows that he won't find a 'xennt' - ie - he won't find a pubic hair. 

5.      Chorak dhorcho luttir, ani xindolleak dhorcho khattir – Catch a thief with his plunder and a whore on bed. Xindoll mhonnje dusreache ostoreche khattir nidta to. Chorak ani xindolleak oi’n tea vellar dhorunk zai. (p 38)


This is a typically misogynistic Konkani 'oppar' from the old days. To catch someone red-handed is a typical English idiom, but when one equates theives with women then... 

6.      Dublleak xenttam bhov – Poor people have too many children. Dubllo lok apli famil favo tedich dovorina, xendre pormannem paim soddina. (p 80)

A better English gloss would be: The poor give a fuck (pubic hair) if accused that they breed too many children. 

I don't have the patience to deal with Antonio-bab's glosses which are inane to say the least. 

7.      Cheddi mhatari zaleari, potivrata zata? – Can a harlot be called a chaste woman when she becomes old? Gunn ani ovgunn urta, soimb ani sonvoi sompeponnim bodolna. (p 85)


The gloss should be : "If a sex-worker happens to grow old (and stops her sex work) can we say she she's an ideal wife?) 

Pereira's bs in the form of gloss is too painful to discuss. 

8.      Khaunchem ghovachem, ani gheunchem minddachem – To eat from one’s husband, and suffer from the lover. Zonn iekle bailen aplea ghovachem khaunk zai ani sosunkui zai, dusrea mon’xeak poro korunk zai. (p 138)


This one is okay although I could have put it better in English. 

9.      Khaprea, pil zait? Atam mhojea bhonkant ghal – Nigger, do you need a chicken soup? Put it in my anus. Ieku khapri morta astanam, tachea dhonian tache lagim kombiecho kald zai zalear vicharlem; tannem mhonnlem: atam mhaka naka, bhonkant ghal. Hi opar Fransezint ani Castelhan bhaxent asa. Soglle bhasamnim galliancheo opareo asat. (p 202)


To be very honest i dont understand this one. I'll consult friends and come back to you Walter. 

10.  Lognachea boballan, telan lumbli – In the hurry of wedding, a woman washed the anus with oil. Taktichea vellar legit mon thondd dovorchem. Latint: Festina lente. Hasten slowly. Sovkas dhanv. (p 223)

I don't know this one too. 

My comments: Walter I don't know everything you bring up. What I can see I've told you straight off.


I'll try to find out the things that puzzle me. 

Leroy Veloso

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May 25, 2020, 8:00:16 AM5/25/20
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Dear Walterbab,

Where could I purchase a copy of Fr Antonio Pereira's book of konkani proverbs?

Thanks in advance.

Best wishes,
leroy

Frederick Noronha

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May 25, 2020, 8:02:54 AM5/25/20
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Entirely and badly out of print, if I'm not mistaken. FN

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Eugene Correia

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May 25, 2020, 8:44:50 AM5/25/20
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Even my copy has disappeared. 

Eugene

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Tensing Rodrigues

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May 25, 2020, 11:12:54 AM5/25/20
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You could try at St. Pauls or Pilar office; if it is still in print.
Tensing

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Nandini Cardoso

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May 25, 2020, 12:10:48 PM5/25/20
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 Leroy 

The book has been reprinted by DKA. I bought a copy from the DKA office some months back. You will get it at the DKA office old education depart bldg 18th June Road. 

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augusto pinto

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May 25, 2020, 12:52:38 PM5/25/20
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That's great news. 

I have of late been training my guns at the haplessly dead Pe. Antonio Pereira. S. J. 

However all said and done Pe. Pereira's work offers a standard. It needs to be improved upon, no doubt. 

In Pereira there are too many idioms and sayings missing - specifically sayings which contain f words and z words and c words and r words - I guess you get the drift - which are missing but which will be found elsewhere. 

Pe. Pereira's work could be a base for a new, more comprehensive collection of idioms, and sayings and phrases. 

But wait! 

For this one will have to deal with Pe. Pereira's theme-wise organisation of the collection. Pereira's collection starts with 'Adhar ani Sohokar' (Help) ; Addkhollem (Obstructions) ; Aixile - Poixile (Near and Far) and so on. 

Is this the best way to organise such a collection of sayings? 

Whoever can skillfully answer this question is ready to compile a fresh collection of Konkani sayings. 

Augusto 

walter menezes

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May 26, 2020, 8:33:20 AM5/26/20
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Just want to add this regarding the second edition of Konknni Oparinchem Bhanddar published by Dalgado Konknni Akademi. It was released on 25.8.2019 on the occasion of Fr. Antonio Pereira's 100th Birth Anniversary. The road leading to Our Lady of Merces Chapel in Sirlim from the Margao-Chinchinim highway was also named after him. 

The first edition was published by Gulab Publications in 1985 and cost only Rs.15/-

walter

Eugene Correia

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May 26, 2020, 8:33:27 AM5/26/20
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I feel that as a priest Pe. Pereira refrained from the "vulgar " words. Perhaps he wanted it to be sane. If he had gone literally, he would be stoner by the venerable Goans, just as pur venerable critic is doing so for what he considers as a " sanctimonious " rendering of mhunneo in amchi bhas.
I knew the "godly" priest quite well and was also his guest at the Jesuit Retreat House in what seemed to me a "heavenly abode" atop the Baga hill.
Cross my heart, he could not get himself to say what a "commoner" or feni-fueled goykar would utter or mutter. Give the Padrigar a break!!
Amen to that. 

Eugene

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augusto pinto

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May 26, 2020, 8:33:27 AM5/26/20
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A couple of more things: the question of scripts and dialects. 

Firstly in which script should this book of sayings be scripted? 

Should it be both Romi and Devanagari? Or should separate Romi and Devanagari sayings collection be published? What about the Kannada and Malayalam scripts in which Konkani is also written?

Secondly the question as to which dialect of Konkani should the sayings be collected. Pereira would collect all things from everywhere (except the sexy ones) and record them the way he heard it. 

Not answering these fundamental questions will create trouble for the compiler. 

Augusto 

antonio CABA

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May 26, 2020, 11:02:53 AM5/26/20
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Walterbab, 
Just out of curiosity, were you one of the office bearers of Dalgado Konknni Academy during that time?
R. Cabral

walter menezes

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May 26, 2020, 11:02:54 AM5/26/20
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Mogall Augusto,

This has reference to your question about which script this [future] book of sayings be scripted.

Maybe we have an answer in Dr Edward de Lima's Konknni Oparincho Kox? The book is 'a compilation of Konkani proverbs both in Nagari and Roman scripts and contains explanations and interpretations in Konkani and equivalent proverbs in English and other languages'.


I intend to get a copy of KOK as soon as possible. According to this Herald report the book features more than 2000 proverbs and is edited by Rev Fr Mousinho de Ataide, Parish Priest of Neura Church.

walter



augusto pinto

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May 26, 2020, 11:57:21 AM5/26/20
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Hmm...

Interesting. Dr. Edward de Lima was a senior when I in school at Monte-de-Guirim, he taught in the higher secondary when I was a student at D. M. C. Mapusa, and a colleague as a fellow English Lecturer (we were lecturers then when I first became a college teacher.) 

I'm surprised that I missed this book of his. Wonder if it's still in print. 

Maybe this is an excuse to visit him at his place in Porvorim (with my mask firmly on) and ask from a distance whether he has copies.

Should I ask whether he could sell one to you too, Walter-bab? 

Best wishes,
Augusto 


Nandini Cardoso

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May 26, 2020, 11:57:21 AM5/26/20
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Yes. KOK is an interesting book. I have a copy of it.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-book-club/1961732554.1339910.1590503036627%40mail.yahoo.com.

augusto pinto

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May 26, 2020, 12:17:42 PM5/26/20
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And could you please give us a detailed review of Dr. Lima's book, Dr. Nandini Cardoso? 

We would be much obliged. Thank you. 
Augusto 




walter menezes

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May 26, 2020, 2:05:38 PM5/26/20
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Thanks, Augusto!

But I just ordered through Other India Bookstore.


walter






walter menezes

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May 26, 2020, 2:05:38 PM5/26/20
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Mogall R Cabral,

I was one of the office bearers of DKA till 2016. The second edition of Konknni Oparinchem Bhanddar was published in 2019.

walter

antonio CABA

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May 27, 2020, 3:51:11 PM5/27/20
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Thank you
R. Cabral

Leroy Veloso

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May 27, 2020, 3:51:11 PM5/27/20
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Thanks so much Nandini!

Leroy Mario Veloso
Email : leroy...@yahoo.com
Mob: 9881333927/ 8999711709

On Monday, May 25, 2020, 09:40:50 PM GMT+5:30, Nandini Cardoso <nandini...@gmail.com> wrote:


 Leroy 

The book has been reprinted by DKA. I bought a copy from the DKA office some months back. You will get it at the DKA office old education depart bldg 18th June Road. 

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 8:42 PM Tensing Rodrigues <ten...@gmail.com> wrote:
You could try at St. Pauls or Pilar office; if it is still in print.
Tensing

On Mon, 25 May 2020 at 17:30, 'Leroy Veloso' via The Goa Book Club <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Dear Walterbab,

Where could I purchase a copy of Fr Antonio Pereira's book of konkani proverbs?

Thanks in advance.

Best wishes,
leroy
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 6:27 pm, 'walter menezes' via The Goa Book Club
Mogall Augusto,

Thank you for your meticulous reply.

Could Ana be the unfaithful wife and the 'bhero' her husband? Interesting possibility but a bit early (in my case) to buy it.

Like you, I quickly leafed through the pages of Fr. Antonio Pereira's book of Konkani proverbs and found that, contrary to your charge, he may not have intentionally indulged in bowdlerizing.

Here are 10 proverbs (there could be some more) from the book:

1.      Ganddhik nam falli, gandd magtakailloili – The buttocks are not even covered, the womanwants sweet cakes. Hispabhair axea. (page 8) 

2.      Cheddiek chandneacho usko– The prostitute is anxious about the moonlight. Vaitt ostori bhair sorunkchandneachea uzvaddak ravta. Zaiteo amcheo opareo patkacher anigalliam-fosteancher gunvtat, zaiteo raga-fogachea kallar upzoleat. Cheddi hemvaitt utor! (p 9)

3.      Avoi morta dhuvekodden, dhuv mortaganvchea minddakodden –The mother dots on her daughter, but the daughter dots on her village paramour.Maink visrun, mogiak bhulta. Oxem zaum-noie. (p 15)

4.      Hatant na xentt, bhonvtasoglli pentt – He has not a farthing but goes aboutthe whole bazar. Poixe nastanam aponn vhoddlo bazar korunk bhonvta mhonndakhoita taka hi opar laitat. (p 28)

5.      Chorak dhorcho luttir, anixindolleak dhorcho khattir – Catch a thief with his plunderand a whore on bed. Xindoll mhonnje dusreache ostoreche khattir nidta to.Chorak ani xindolleak oi’n tea vellar dhorunk zai. (p 38)

6.      Dublleak xenttam bhov– Poor people have too many children. Dubllo lok apli famil favo tedichdovorina, xendre pormannem paim soddina. (p 80)

7.      Cheddi mhatari zaleari, potivratazata? – Can a harlot be called a chaste woman when shebecomes old? Gunn ani ovgunn urta, soimb ani sonvoi sompeponnim bodolna. (p 85)

8.      Khaunchem ghovachem, ani gheunchemminddachem – To eat from one’s husband, and suffer from thelover. Zonn iekle bailen aplea ghovachem khaunk zai ani sosunkui zai, dusreamon’xeak poro korunk zai. (p 138)

9.      Khaprea, pil zait? Atam mhojeabhonkant ghal – Nigger, do you need a chicken soup?Put it in my anus. Ieku khapri morta astanam, tachea dhonian tache lagimkombiecho kald zai zalear vicharlem; tannem mhonnlem: atam mhaka naka, bhonkantghal. Hi opar Fransezint ani Castelhan bhaxent asa. Soglle bhasamnimgalliancheo opareo asat. (p 202)

10.  Lognachea boballan, telan lumbli– In the hurry of wedding, a woman washed the anus with oil. Taktichea vellarlegit mon thondd dovorchem. Latint: Festina lente. Hasten slowly. Sovkas dhanv.(p 223)

My comments:From anus and buttocks to prostitutes and village paramours, you find them allas Fr. Pereira tries to translate the Konkani proverbs into English. The onlyexception is in the case of xenttam(see proverb 4 and 6). A literal translation is really not needed here, Ithink. But you can always correct me. Your comments about thecarpenter and his wife’s kule,mentioned as ‘hips’...a typo, maybe?
To my mind, Augusto's contention is too far-fetched. Assuming that it iscorrect (and we do have many adages which are risque), how does he read theproverb? (a) Anddak poddlam anddachem, (b) Anddak poddlam Anachem or (c) Anakpoddlam anddachem? And what meaning does he attribute to it? Moreover, if the wordis "anddachem" then it does not rhyme with "kanachem".

Ithink the problem lies elsewhere, i.e. the habit of Bardesi Christians ofpronouncing a medial n as nn and (in common with Antruzi Goans) of pronouncingndd also as nn. At Chowgule College, I had a colleague (Prof. PatrickFerdinand) hailing from Siolim. For him "min" (mine) and"mindd" (paramour) were both "minn". Perhaps Augusto readsthe proverb as "Annak poddlam annachem....." and then assumes that"ann" means testicle. But, as stated above, "annachem" doesnot rhyme with "kanachem" unless here too he reads the word as"kannachem" which then would mean something else altogether.
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