THE SHAME OF SPEAKING KONKANI

[augusto pinto]

http://daleluismenezes.blogspot.in/

Wednesday, 2 September 2015

THE SHAME OF SPEAKING KONKANI

In this column I would like to discuss one of Alfred Rose’s most popular songs, Anv Konknni Zannam (I Know Konkani), which he sang along with his wife, Rita Rose. Given that the issue of language – particularly ‘mother tongue’ – is being hotly debated in Goa presently, this particular song provides an opportunity to reflect on a serious issue about the Konkani language that is rarely spoken about.

The song is a duet featuring one singer as a crooner who desires to get a break into the Konkani tiatr industry and the second singer, Alfred Rose, essays the role of an interviewer, scrutinizing the singing skills of the crooner in question. However, there is one problem: the crooner cannot speak Konkani ‘properly’. Her Konkani is highly anglicized, which provides much fodder in the song for ridicule. For example, when this highly anglicized Konkani is being scoffed at, the crooner protests saying “Mhaka eok chance diun, why don’t you try”. To which the ‘interviewer’ retorts: “Try try try kitem kor mhunntai try,/…Osli Konknni bhas Goenkar uloit zalear,/ Konknnichi, zali chili fry”.

Further in the song, the aspiring crooner actually tries to demonstrate her Konkani skills – albeit in her anglicized Konkani – by singing some popular mandde (or Indo-Portuguese folk songs in Konkani). When she is abruptly stopped by the ‘interviewer’, the aspiring crooner sings, “Why are you angry, I’m very sorry,/…I’ve asked my daddy, I’ve asked my mummy,/To teach me to speak real Konkani”. What needs to be noted is the emphasis placed on “real Konkani”. At this point, the song takes a preachy turn, wherein Alfred Rose sermonizes about the necessity to speak Konkani. I would argue that this song also reproduces some of the oppressive strands of Konkani language politics. But more on this later.

Alfred Rose as the ‘interviewer’ superciliously reasons with the crooner saying that in Africa she would speak Swahili, in Germany she would speak German, and Arabic in Arabia, so how did she forget Konkani, which undoubtedly is her ‘mother tongue’ owing to the fact that her parents are Goans? It is at this juncture that the crooner reveals that in reality she did not forget the Konkani language; rather she was feeling “shy” to speak Konkani. Further, she had learnt Konkani from the cooks (kuzner). Hence, Alfred Rose sings that when the parents speak Konkani, why should the children be brought up in English? Rather than treating Konkani as a second-class language, we should all be proud of it, he adds.

Although ‘shyness’ is given as the cause of the crooner not speaking in ‘proper’ Konkani, in reality it is the shame and humiliation associated with speaking Konkani publicly that generally prevents people from robustly using the language. This feeling of shame and humiliation is not a rarity, but in fact is deeply symptomatic of the public experience of Konkani. This means that one would not experience this shame or humiliation whilst speaking to or conversing among friends and family, but would certainly do so in a Konkani language classroom or while interviewing for a job, both situations that require fluency in the Antruzi dialect and the nagri script in the Goa of today. These feelings are strongly tied to the caste system, and dialects are markers of caste, religion, and region that are used to discriminate people who associate with such dialects.

Within the current Konkani language establishment, Romi Konkani and the various types of accents and dialects other than Antruzi-nagri Konkani are not given public legitimacy. Hence, many bahujan Catholics and tribal peoples across Goa feel shamed and humiliated to speak their Konkani outside the comfort zone of friends and family. In fact, on the public level, speaking and standing up for these non-Antruzi-nagri forms of Konkanis would certainly be nothing short of an ordeal by fire! Being humiliated for speaking other forms of Konkani is a very serious problem.

It is this problem of a large number of Goans, of feeling shy, ashamed, and humiliated, that is not taken into consideration by either Alfred Rose in his song or even by Romi Konkani activists. Instead, what is generally done is to blame the mass of Goans (for instance, the Catholics) for failing to serve the Konkani language – and thus their Goan identity – by refusing to speak or support it publicly.

Further, by emphasizing on a ‘real’ and ‘proper’ Konkani, this song also privileges a singular form of Konkani as acceptable. Making fun of anglicized accents can also mean that the ‘foreign’ influences on Konkani need to be shunned. This particular song (along with others) of Alfred Rose reproduces a vision of language politics in Goa that values only the Konkani language. If such prejudices were handed down by the dominant or Nagri Konkani establishment, it can be observed that the Romi Konkani activists have not done much to rectify the problem.

So in conclusion one can say that Alfred Rose was both right and wrong simultaneously. He could see the problem but not in its entirety and seriousness. This has been the failure of Konkani activism till now. Perhaps, this is also one of the reasons why the mass of Goans demand English for the primary schooling of their children. In this grim scenario, English seems the only way out of being shamed and humiliated on a daily basis. Before we can read, write, speak, and preserve Konkani forever (vach, boroi, uloi sodamkal), this chronic shaming and humiliation needs to end.

(First published in O Heraldo, dt: 2 September, 2015)

[Eugene Correia]

One understands the anxiety over Konkani and its lack of use in many Goan homes. Unfortunately, when I met many notable Goans and also some friends they first broke out in English and then when I uttered one or two words of Konkani the conversation, albeit consciously moved to Konkani.

So, even the learned one feels ashamed or little backwards to start a conversation in Konkani. Augusto, we spoke and met over drinks but tell me how many times we spokes in Konkani? We are, therefore, both guilty.

The same backwardness to speak Konkani keeps nephews and nieces from starting or greeting in Konkani. Dale has mentioned Alfred but I saw a recent video, hosted by Daniel de Souza, were Rita spoke or replied in English, and I can stand corrected.

Alfred made good effort to translate English songs, especially one birthday celebration song, and hymnal or spiritual ones into Konkani. I think he even rendered the Ladainha into Konkani.

But, by and large, the fear is of Konkani going the way of Latin. Whether such a day will come one does not know, for at least another century there would be Goans, in Goa at least, who will speak the language in whatever form and manner.

Eugene

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[antonio CABA]

I admire the Saxttikars. Whenever I go to Margao and meet my friends we all converse in Konkani and it comes so easy and smooth, that Saxtti Konkani. And my friends comprise of advocates (called learned counsels in legal parlance), teachers, government officials,business people etc.

Viva Saxttikars! And yes they are fond of saying SMP.

RC  

[Eugene Correia]

One thing we must remember that every community feels proud of its culture and language. We and many of us call Konkani a "sweet language". The Bengalis call their language, "Amche bhasa, boilea basaha". Our language is sweet. Yeah, there are many similar words in Konkani and Bengali. And mind you, Bengali has a rich literary tradition.

It's said that if three Bengalis meet they will start a revolution.  If three Goans come together there will be four associations. Both are fish-eaters, we from our rivers and they from the mighty Hoogly.

Go to Konkani tiatr in Toronto, and you will hear tongues wagging in English. Ironical isn't it? I have been to Bengali and Marathi theatre in Mumbai and all I could hear is that the audience speak in their own respective language. So much for us beating our chests for Konkani.

We can discuss the crisis affecting Konkani till the cows come home or, let me say, till the cows swallow the language. It has made progressive and my visits to the Tiatr Academy and DKA when I was in Goa last year show that the two bodies are pushing hard for Konkani. Their success depends on how much the people will go forward in speaking Konkani in their day-to-day affairs.

Shenob Goembab's Triumph of Konkani can only come true when Goans en masse brace the language and speak it at home and everywhere when they meet a fellow Goan, as some of us Goans meet at times at Toronto events.

Once I went to receive a well-known Goan academic at Toronto airport and met a relative of mine there. He asked me in Konkani as to who I have come to receive, and I told him and, since he was working at the airport, he accompanied me. The person, a British Goan (ex-Africa), surprisingly asked me, You speak Konkani. I said to those who know start the conversation in Konkani or I s tart it with someone who I know speaks the language.

I have posted a reply to the thread on Konkani after Augusto posted Dale's article on the language. I forgot to add that Alfred and Rita would speak to many Toronto Goans in English when they came here many years ago and performed on stage. I do hope their sons, one who is in US, speak the language and make sure that they carry on the father's message.

One Mumbai singer, a Goan, at the Viva Goa festival recently informed me that she would make an attempt to learn Konkani. I said it would be great as it would add to the cultural might of Goa, and she could just win the Goan crowds. Lorna didn't speak Konkani well, and perhaps I may not be wrong to say if she at all knew Konkani. But Chris deserves the praise for teaching her and making her sing in her language, as he "parroted" singers like Mod. Rafi and Usha Utthup to sing in Konkani.

Eugene

[augusto pinto]

Eugene, - loz dista hi ek gozal, Hanv tujem lagim chodd Konkani uloupak voch'chonam kiteak khorem sangchem mhol'lear mhojem 'poili bhas' vo 'first language' hem Choddxem English-uch zaun asa.

Mai-bhas utor matxem kuxin dovortam. Khup lokam modem somzounni asa ki mai-bhas zaun asa apli maichem bhas - hem ek chukichi sozmonni zaun asa. Dusrem mhollear lok sozmotta ki eka munxeak ekuch 'mai-bhas' asa mhunnon. Hi porian ek chuk mhojea ispan. Lhan astanam bhurgeank don, tin, ani mais bhaso xikpacho takot asa ekach voktar. Ani amchea atanchea Goean tin na zalear char bhaso lhan san uch zai podd'ta.

Tuka newspaper vachpak zai zalear English zai pod'dta. Tuka kamdaralagim ulounk zai, na zalear Film poleunk zai, zalear Hindi zai pod'dta. Tum nat'tkak voita zalear, na zalear Tarun Bharat na zalear Gomantak kitem mhon'tta tem vachunk zai zalear Marathi sozmonk zai. Ani amchem modem ulounk zai  na zalear bazarant vannponna korunk zai zalear kitem cholta tem zana zaunk zai zalear Konakani zai pod'dta.

Taka lagun mhaka dista ki ami lhan  ponnan san tin char bhaso eksonnim xikounk zai.

Punn kiteak loz dista Konknni ulounk hem ek dusri gozal. Ani hem ami soddun sozmaunk ani zan'na zaunk zai. Hea vixim hanv durea emailin sangttam.

Augusto

[Eugene Correia]

Mogall Augusto,

Loz-naka baba sangounk. Aum passon Ingleziant zodd so volleata, chodd korun hea mujea Kanada ganvant. Punn ziatte put chintam Konknni boroupak. Aven Konknnint adium boroila punn ti Manuel Rod, zo zhunn aslo tiatr producer ani ek famadik football referee, to barik nodren vachtallo ani zai tinga mudhar kortalo.

Aven don vo tin artik The Goan Times-ar boroillat punn te Inzelint dadlele ani Dr. Simon Fernandes Konknni basantor kalle.

Makai bori loz dista ki aum Konknni-ant borauk vaur korunk na mum.

Eugene

[Frederick Noronha]

Is this just because they took to English-language education and mass migration (to places like Africa) later on? Are we turning necessity into virtue?

FN

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[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎]

Alito (elsewhere) and Dale have argued about the role of 'shame' in people not wanting to speak Konkani. Augusto has questioned the concept of 'mother tongue'[1] and underlines the need to be multilingual in today's Goa.

It is true that the moment one opens one's mouth in Konkani in Goa, markers of community, caste (and probably class) come out strong. In a lesser way, this would be true of English or Marathi too. Our background influences how fluent we are in which language, and what dialect we choose to speak.

But when Alfred Rose sang his song, the Nagari dominance was probably nowhere as we know it now. Konkani in the Devanagari script (and in the Antruzi) dialect was not even the official language of Goa, which it became only after Statehood ijn 1987.

When this 'shy to speak Konkani' comes up repeatedly in Goa, I wonder why nobody raises the language-loss issue. http://www.cal.org/heritage/pdfs/briefs/what-is-language-loss.pdf  This debates the issue in a context of the United States, but many Goan expat communities, which have got immersed in strongly English-speaking monocultures are in a similar situation.

Apparently it is a major issue among the diaspora communities at least. I know many diaspora Goans who have lost the ability to speak Konkani over the years, would like to learn it, and find the opportunities to do so rather restricted. As a foreigner friend put it recently, "In today's Goa, I can learn almost every language except Konkani!" This is even more so among the diaspora Goan communities.

After all, Kokani is a small language, not some Japanese, German or Russian, which is often (and wrongly, in my view) gets compared to! It faces peculiar problems and challenges.

FN

[1] From the Wikipedia: According to Ivan Illich, the term "mother tongue" was first used by Catholic monks to designate a particular language they used, instead of Latin, when they are "speaking from the pulpit". That is, the "holy mother the Church" introduced this term and colonies inherited it from the Christianity as a part of their colonial legacy, thanks to the effort made by foreign missionaries in the transitional period of switching over from 18th-century Mercantile Capitalism to 19th-century Industrial Capitalism in India.

In some countries, such as Kenya, India, and various East Asian countries, "mother language" or "native language" is used to indicate the language of one's ethnic group, in both common and journalistic parlance (e.g. "I have no apologies for not learning my mother tongue"), rather than one's first language. Also, in Singapore "mother tongue" refers to the language of one's ethnic group regardless of actual proficiency, while the "first language" refers to the English language that was established on the island through British colonisation, which is the lingua franca for most post-independence Singaporeans due to its use as the language of instruction in government schools and as a working language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_language

 

On 2 September 2015 at 20:11, augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:

In this column I would like to discuss one of Alfred Rose’s most popular songs, Anv Konknni Zannam (I Know Konkani), which he sang along with his wife, Rita Rose. Given that the issue of language – particularly ‘mother tongue’ – is being hotly debated in Goa presently, this particular song provides an opportunity to reflect on a serious issue about the Konkani language that is rarely spoken about.

The song is a duet featuring one singer as a crooner who desires to get a break into the Konkani tiatr industry and the second singer, Alfred Rose, essays the role of an interviewer, scrutinizing the singing skills of the crooner in question. However, there is one problem: the crooner cannot speak Konkani ‘properly’. Her Konkani is highly anglicized, which provides much fodder in the song for ridicule. For example, when this highly anglicized Konkani is being scoffed at, the crooner protests saying “Mhaka eok chance diun, why don’t you try”. To which the ‘interviewer’ retorts: “Try try try kitem kor mhunntai try,/…Osli Konknni bhas Goenkar uloit zalear,/ Konknnichi, zali chili fry”.

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[antonio CABA]

I can't understand why we should cross over into the diaspora to talk about the conservation of Konkani when today in Goa itself there is a potent and hitherto unchallenged threat from other languages especially Hindi. Wherever you go around Goa everybody speaks in Hindi and our Goans (padd poddlele) will also happily join them just to show off that they too can speak Hindi. Our "Konkani bhakts" are busy fighting among themselves regarding the adopting of the right script for Konkani when the ground below their feet is slipping away and all the space is gradually being occupied by Hindi. In many places hoardings and boards have been put up in Hindi, Konkani, Marathi and English.Three national languages and one international language! No such thing is observed when you cross over into Karnataka. They have boards only in Kannada. Our fanatics think the threat is from English when in reality it is from Hindi. But some will not admit it. God knows why. 

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[augusto pinto]

On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 11:42 AM, antonio CABA <ant...@gmail.com> wrote:

I can't understand why we should cross over into the diaspora to talk about the conservation of Konkani when today in Goa itself there is a potent and hitherto unchallenged threat from other languages especially Hindi. Wherever you go around Goa everybody speaks in Hindi and our Goans (padd poddlele) will also happily join them just to show off that they too can speak Hindi.

This is well observed Richard Even in a bar, (and especially in a bar) you will find yourself being addressed in Hindi. Proprietors are more concerned about the of your money than the tongue of your mother. Nobody has the time and energy for linguistic grandstanding

 

Our "Konkani bhakts" are busy fighting among themselves regarding the adopting of the right script for Konkani when the ground below their feet is slipping away and all the space is gradually being occupied by Hindi. In many places hoardings and boards have been put up in Hindi, Konkani, Marathi and English.Three national languages and one international language! No such thing is observed when you cross over into Karnataka. They have boards only in Kannada. Our fanatics think the threat is from English when in reality it is from Hindi. But some will not admit it. God knows why. 

(Just as a matter of fact, as regards signboards in Kannada in Karnataka, the Karnataka state government had inserted a rule in their Shops and Establishments Rules that all signboards had be in Kannada. This has since been overturned by a High Court but the situation largely remains monolingual. See http://www.bangaloremirror.com/bangalore/others/High-Court-says-nameboards-need-not-be-in-Kannada/articleshow/32977024.cms I must say this attitude is pretty parochial and certainly tourist un-friendly.)

To come back to the issue as to why people hesitate to speak in Konkani, I think that Dale makes an important point where he says that all dialects except that of Antruzi (ard perhaps Padribhas) are privileged and others are looked down upon. 

There is another thing: every time you speak in Konkani you reveal yourself - your religion, your caste, your profession, your class - and other markers of your identity all come tumbling out of your open mouth! And with this old prejudices subtly resurface. 

I think that this is one reason why people who are fluent and even those who aren't so fluent in English prefer to switch to the neutral ground of English.when engaging with one another. 

Incidentally the issue of language and identity and caste are all interlinked And perhaps that is one of the reasons why people who don't want to be seen dead doing manual labour and other skill-based work in Goa are quite happy doing this in foreign countries where they escape from the stigmas they feel they are subjected to here.

Augusto

[Eugene Correia]

Just yesterday, I was at a birthday party of a relative. The the cutting of the cake, there was first English rendition of Happy Birthday. The the person's two grand-children, one each of his son, were asked to sing in Konkani. These four-year or five-year olds were shy but one was a bit louder. She sang beautifully, though some words had English accent. She is of a Goan father and German mother. I am told, she sings English songs very well. She also knows very good German as her mother speaks to her and her two other kids in German.

I recommend that the girl be trained in Konkani and given a chance on the Konkani stage in Toronto, probably at at one of the tiatrs and at the Viva Goa. Encouraging such talent in diaspora Goan children is a good idea. The parents have a video on her singing in Konkani, and I have asked for a copy.

Here is a lesson that one should not be ashamed speaking the language and rather promote it among the young family members.

Eugene Correia

[Tony Martin]

On the mother tongue Konkani issue my favourite is the very famous aan'd'-du joke. For those that missed this one. A Konklish speaking mother visits a doctor with her kid. The Doctor says: "Baby open your mouth"  No response. "Baby open your mouth"  again no response "Baby open your mouth" Nothing from the confounded kid. The mother brushes the Dotor aside and takes over "Baby aan'd'-du" and the baby promptly opens its mouth.   

Tony Martin

http://www.facebook.com/tonymartingoa
Galgibaga, Canacona

[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎]

And so?

Baby-talk and 'infant-directed speech' is a reality across the globe:

http://www.parentingscience.com/baby-talk.html

http://www.parentingscience.com/baby-communication.html

In Goa's case, is it so surprising that this happens in English (however non-standard that might be)? The fact is, we in Goa use English (along with Marathi in the written word, Konkani in the spoken domain, Hindi, Portuguese in the past, Kannada among in-migrants, etc) a lot. 

So baby-talk or IDS too shifting over there might not be so unusual.

FN

On 7 September 2015 at 22:44, Tony Martin <tonyma...@gmail.com> wrote:

On the mother tongue Konkani issue my favourite is the very famous aan'd'-du joke. For those that missed this one. A Konklish speaking mother visits a doctor with her kid. The Doctor says: "Baby open your mouth"  No response. "Baby open your mouth"  again no response "Baby open your mouth" Nothing from the confounded kid. The mother brushes the Dotor aside and takes over "Baby aan'd'-du" and the baby promptly opens its mouth.  

[Frederick FN Noronha फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या *فريدريك نورونيا‎]

Mogall ixtt Richard Cabral,

To understand language use and language preference, we perhaps need to understand groups of people. The reason why expats is referred to is because they are one group who is often targeted for being 'ashamed' to speak Konkani, without any reference being made to language-loss, or the limited possibilities of learning Konkani in Goa (or beyond) today.

On Sunday morning, as I was trying to get some colour prints made at Panjim, I was thinking of exactly the same other question you raise. Why do Goans speak in Hindi with others?

At one level, it's possible to portray that as a mark of servility. Padd poddlele. 

While trying to communicate with a Nepali-looking computer technician working on the print-outs, chances are that we be able to communicate better in a language like Hindi than in one like Konkani. Isn't this also a question of sheer practicality?

On the other hand, I must concede that after in-migrants stay in Goa for some years, they are surprisingly (in a positive sense) fluent in Konkani. I've seen Sikh printers, Oriya watchmen, Kannadiga maids, and many others take to Konkani fluently and confidently. The most unusual example was of Marathi speakers taking to becoming Konkani radio journalists and a young German girl speaking the language fluently with her neighbours. In their case, rather than being deterred by the lack of language classes, they just cope with the market requirements, I guess.

'Shame' might explain Konkani non-use in some cases, but how many?

Konkani would benefit if something was done *for* it, rather than create artificial blocks *against* the other languages. Btw, on Monday, a Konkani film was screened pre-release in Panjim (see attached photo) and in the evening its lovely sound-track was released. FN

On 7 September 2015 at 11:42, antonio CABA <ant...@gmail.com> wrote:

I can't understand why we should cross over into the diaspora to talk about the conservation of Konkani when today in Goa itself there is a potent and hitherto unchallenged threat from other languages especially Hindi. Wherever you go around Goa everybody speaks in Hindi and our Goans (padd poddlele) will also happily join them just to show off that they too can speak Hindi. Our "Konkani bhakts" are busy fighting among themselves regarding the adopting of the right script for Konkani when the ground below their feet is slipping away and all the space is gradually being occupied by Hindi. In many places hoardings and boards have been put up in Hindi, Konkani, Marathi and English.Three national languages and one international language! No such thing is observed when you cross over into Karnataka. They have boards only in Kannada. Our fanatics think the threat is from English when in reality it is from Hindi. But some will not admit it. God knows why. 

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[Eugene Correia]

Avem adlea post-an boroilant Manuel Rod punn thachen nanv zauh-asa Manuel D'Lima, ganvant Socorro-cho.

[reenamartins]

Even Chennai which used to send you on a wild goose chase if you asked for directions in Hindi has turned a new leaf. They even respond in broken Hindi.

In every other Indian state one can get by with English or Hindi. And they're mighty proud of their languages which they speak among themselves even when they go abroad. 

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: Frederick FN Noronha फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या *فريدريك نورونيا
Date:07/09/2015 11:17 PM (GMT+05:30)
To: The Third Thursday Goa Book Club
Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] THE SHAME OF SPEAKING KONKANI

Mogall ixtt Richard Cabral,

To understand language use and language preference, we perhaps need to understand groups of people. The reason why expats is referred to is because they are one group who is often targeted for being 'ashamed' to speak Konkani, without any reference being made to language-loss, or the limited possibilities of learning Konkani in Goa (or beyond) today.

On Sunday morning, as I was trying to get some colour prints made at Panjim, I was thinking of exactly the same other question you raise. Why do Goans speak in Hindi with others?

At one level, it's possible to portray that as a mark of servility. Padd poddlele. 

While trying to communicate with a Nepali-looking computer technician working on the print-outs, chances are that we be able to communicate better in a language like Hindi than in one like Konkani. Isn't this also a question of sheer practicality?

On the other hand, I must concede that after in-migrants stay in Goa for some years, they are surprisingly (in a positive sense) fluent in Konkani. I've seen Sikh printers, Oriya watchmen, Kannadiga maids, and many others take to Konkani fluently and confidently. The most unusual example was of Marathi speakers taking to becoming Konkani radio journalists and a young German girl speaking the language fluently with her neighbours. In their case, rather than being deterred by the lack of language classes, they just cope with the market requirements, I guess.

'Shame' might explain Konkani non-use in some cases, but how many?

Konkani would benefit if something was done *for* it, rather than create artificial blocks *against* the other languages. Btw, on Monday, a Konkani film was screened pre-release in Panjim (see attached photo) and in the evening its lovely sound-track was released. FN

On 7 September 2015 at 11:42, antonio CABA <ant...@gmail.com> wrote:

I can't understand why we should cross over into the diaspora to talk about the conservation of Konkani when today in Goa itself there is a potent and hitherto unchallenged threat from other languages especially Hindi. Wherever you go around Goa everybody speaks in Hindi and our Goans (padd poddlele) will also happily join them just to show off that they too can speak Hindi. Our "Konkani bhakts" are busy fighting among themselves regarding the adopting of the right script for Konkani when the ground below their feet is slipping away and all the space is gradually being occupied by Hindi. In many places hoardings and boards have been put up in Hindi, Konkani, Marathi and English.Three national languages and one international language! No such thing is observed when you cross over into Karnataka. They have boards only in Kannada. Our fanatics think the threat is from English when in reality it is from Hindi. But some will not admit it. God knows why. 

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[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎]

To play devil's advocate here:

On 7 September 2015 at 20:26, augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:

To come back to the issue as to why people hesitate to speak in Konkani, I think that Dale makes an important point where he says that all dialects except that of Antruzi (ard perhaps Padribhas) are privileged and others are looked down upon. 

Isn't it -- like your caste system -- something of graded degradation really? Where all the dialects (and scripts) are graded in some hierarchy, the rank of which can change over time too?

Wouldn't it be right to say that Bardezi was priviledged (over Saxhti and the other dialects) till the 1960s or 1970s? Look at the language of the tiatr till today. Or the dialect used in church, which you term Padribhas (originally called so by Dr/Fr William R da Silva, incidentally.)

Saxhti probably has an edge over the other south Goa dialects, while the dialects of Pednem and Kaankonn have been the poor cousins.

Antruzi's rise is post-1987, though the campaign for it got momentum maybe in the 1970s in Goa, and it was launched in the uncertain 1930s or thereabouts in Bombay. 

There is another thing: every time you speak in Konkani you reveal yourself - your religion, your caste, your profession, your class - and other markers of your identity all come tumbling out of your open mouth! And with this old prejudices subtly resurface. 

'Caste' can sometimes be short-hand to win any argument, I get the feeling. How relevant is it in a community where it is not followed in its ritualistic orthodoxy, nor its purity aspects, while class has been almost as important (if not more) than caste for the past two to three generations at least?

Given the fractured nature of Indian society (and which society isn't?) your markers are bound to become apparent "everytime you speak". Haven't we heard of Convent English?

This need not be linked to shame; it can also be pride. Depends on how one takes it. Listen here to Shashikant Punaji and Samara Shagoti. (And, incidentally, in the spirit of reciprocity, I'm attempting there to speak a Konkani tinged not with shame but just challenges on both the vocabulary and grammatical fronts): https://archive.org/details/pernem-konkani

I think that this is one reason why people who are fluent and even those who aren't so fluent in English prefer to switch to the neutral ground of English.when engaging with one another. 

English also has that gloss of being 'modern'  and a 'progressive' '21st century' language. Just like Western clothes do.... Or the manner in which Portuguese is (was?) considered to be the genteel language of the upper classes in Goa not too long ago.

Incidentally the issue of language and identity and caste are all interlinked And perhaps that is one of the reasons why people who don't want to be seen dead doing manual labour and other skill-based work in Goa are quite happy doing this in foreign countries where they escape from the stigmas they feel they are subjected to here.

They also pay a lot more for manual work in the West. And, by implication, it also costs a lot to get access to it there. For instance, nearly a generation ago, when a short-term student in Deutschland, I ended up doing the laundry for a Pakistani friend, who would cook chicken biryani for me, and the third side of the barter deal came from a Nagpur colleague who would cut my hair.

This made a lot of sense there; it cost DM25 (about Rs250 at the exchange rate then, when Rs250 was indeed a lot of money!) for a haircut. And a lot more to eat out. So it simply made economic sense to do this work there. Back home, I would be a fool to want to do it, when a haircut costs Rs40 even today, and the dhobi is only too happy to offer a cheap and efficient service. So is this class, or costs?  

FN

[Tensing Rodrigues]

Or is it that some of us in this discussion are the ones who feel ashamed of Konkani, because our hearts are with our 'denationalised' pedigree ?  This issue of 'shame in talking Konkani' is a past issue; no longer valid. Now we 'prefer' to not talk Konkani, for material reasons.

--

[augusto pinto]

On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 6:22 AM, Tensing Rodrigues <ten...@gmail.com> wrote:

Or is it that some of us in this discussion are the ones who feel ashamed of Konkani, because our hearts are with our 'denationalised' pedigree ?

Is there something wrong with the grammar of this sentence, or is it that the 'surface structure' says one thing; but the deep structure actually says: "Or is it that some of you in this discussion are the ones who feel ashamed of Konkani, because your hearts are with your 'denationalised' pedigree?"

This kind of sophisticated though tired abuse is just that: abuse.

Interestingly Uday Bhembre was the second-last person who was  heard flinging the 'denationalised' epithet at his opponents. What is the 'pedigree' of those who claim to be 'nationalised' I wonder?

 

  This issue of 'shame in talking Konkani' is a past issue; no longer valid.

 

It appears to me that some of us in this discussion are in a great hurry to run away from the embarrassing and shaming past which persists in the present. It is so glaringly obvious that I am amazed at the audacity of those who dismiss it as a 'past issue'.

Why I wonder? Is it that we want all traces of our high-breed Portuguese-loving pasts to be quietly and quickly forgotten? 

Now we 'prefer' to not talk Konkani, for material reasons.

Material reasons are of course one reason; but reducing a complex phenomenon to only one cause is not conducive to an intellectual debate that seeks understanding and does not merely aim at winning polemical arguments.

Bah!

Augusto

[augusto pinto]

When the Devil tries to play his own Advocate one must read carefully.

I did try but I couldn't follow Adv. Noronha's brief. Who or what is he arguing against? Merely throwing in some assorted comments without any thesis does not make much sense to me and I don't think I'll bother responding further.

Augusto

--

[FM N]

http://dervishnotes.blogspot.in/2011/08/konkani-and-silence-of-goan-catholic.html

On 08/09/2015, augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> When the Devil tries to play his own Advocate one must read carefully.
>
> I did try but I couldn't follow Adv. Noronha's brief. Who or what is he
> arguing against? Merely throwing in some assorted comments without any
> thesis does not make much sense to me and I don't think I'll bother
> responding further.
> Augusto
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 1:08 AM, Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या *
> فريدريك نورونيا <frederic...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>> *To play devil's advocate here:*

>>
>> On 7 September 2015 at 20:26, augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> To come back to the issue as to why people hesitate to speak in Konkani,
>>> I think that Dale makes an important point where he says that all
>>> dialects
>>> except that of Antruzi (ard perhaps Padribhas) are privileged and others
>>> are looked down upon.
>>>
>>

>> *Isn't it -- like your caste system -- something of graded degradation

>> really? Where all the dialects (and scripts) are graded in some
>> hierarchy,

>> the rank of which can change over time too?*
>>
>> *Wouldn't it be right to say that Bardezi was priviledged (over Saxhti

>> and
>> the other dialects) till the 1960s or 1970s? Look at the language of the
>> tiatr till today. Or the dialect used in church, which you term Padribhas

>> (originally called so by Dr/Fr William R da Silva, incidentally.)*
>>
>> *Saxhti probably has an edge over the other south Goa dialects, while the
>> dialects of Pednem and Kaankonn have been the poor cousins.*
>>
>> *Antruzi's rise is post-1987, though the campaign for it got momentum

>> maybe in the 1970s in Goa, and it was launched in the uncertain 1930s or

>> thereabouts in Bombay. *

>>
>>>
>>> There is another thing: every time you speak in Konkani you reveal
>>> yourself - your religion, your caste, your profession, your class - and
>>> other markers of your identity all come tumbling out of your open mouth!
>>> And with this old prejudices subtly resurface.
>>>
>>
>>

>> *'Caste' can sometimes be short-hand to win any argument, I get the

>> feeling. How relevant is it in a community where it is not followed in
>> its
>> ritualistic orthodoxy, nor its purity aspects, while class has been
>> almost
>> as important (if not more) than caste for the past two to three
>> generations

>> at least?*
>>
>> *Given the fractured nature of Indian society (and which society isn't?)

>> your markers are bound to become apparent "everytime you speak". Haven't
>> we

>> heard of Convent English?*
>>
>> *This need not be linked to shame; it can also be pride. Depends on how

>> one takes it. Listen here to Shashikant Punaji and Samara Shagoti. (And,
>> incidentally, in the spirit of reciprocity, I'm attempting there to speak
>> a
>> Konkani tinged not with shame but just challenges on both the vocabulary

>> and grammatical fronts): **https://archive.org/details/pernem-konkani
>> <https://archive.org/details/pernem-konkani>*

>>
>>>
>>> I think that this is one reason why people who are fluent and even those
>>> who aren't so fluent in English prefer to switch to the neutral ground
>>> of
>>> English.when engaging with one another.
>>>
>>

>> *English also has that gloss of being 'modern' and a 'progressive' '21st

>> century' language. Just like Western clothes do.... Or the manner in
>> which
>> Portuguese is (was?) considered to be the genteel language of the upper

>> classes in Goa not too long ago.*

>>
>>>
>>> Incidentally the issue of language and identity and caste are all
>>> interlinked And perhaps that is one of the reasons why people who don't
>>> want to be seen dead doing manual labour and other skill-based work in
>>> Goa
>>> are quite happy doing this in foreign countries where they escape from
>>> the
>>> stigmas they feel they are subjected to here.
>>>
>>

>> *They also pay a lot more for manual work in the West. And, by

>> implication, it also costs a lot to get access to it there. For instance,
>> nearly a generation ago, when a short-term student in Deutschland, I
>> ended
>> up doing the laundry for a Pakistani friend, who would cook chicken
>> biryani
>> for me, and the third side of the barter deal came from a Nagpur
>> colleague

>> who would cut my hair.*
>>
>> *This made a lot of sense there; it cost DM25 (about Rs250 at the

>> exchange
>> rate then, when Rs250 was indeed a lot of money!) for a haircut. And a
>> lot
>> more to eat out. So it simply made economic sense to do this work there.
>> Back home, I would be a fool to want to do it, when a haircut costs Rs40
>> even today, and the dhobi is only too happy to offer a cheap and
>> efficient

>> service. So is this class, or costs?*

[augusto pinto]

Thanks Fatima for posting this old article by Jason. It brought notice to the fact that JKF has more recently been writing on variations of the same theme:

http://dervishnotes.blogspot.in/2015/08/bhembre-nagri-konkani-and-project-of.html

http://dervishnotes.blogspot.in/search?updated-min=2015-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2016-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=28

I think that he is spot on when he speaks of the Brahminical hegemony with which the Antruzi dialect has come to be associated.

However with regard to the Nagari or more properly Devanagari script I think that he needs to be more circumspect. Its association with the Bahujan Samaj especially the Hindu Bahujan Samaj (although there are those from the Catholics too of some New Conquest areas) cannot be denied. Particularly when the script is used to write Marathi.

However even when used to write Konkani, the script has been used to represent other dialects than the Antruzi. The writings of Pundalik Naik, Hema Naik, Jayanti Naik who can be described as writers from the  Bahujan Samaj are the ones that come immediately to mind as having used it for the purpose.

This is the reason why I get irritated with terms like 'Devanagari Konkani' and 'Romi Konkani' which are routinely used by both Konkani Bhasha Mandal and Dalgado Konkani Akademi members and by individuals like the Owner of this forum FN.

Both these terms help to mark political spaces but otherwise produce linguistic confusion. It is common knowledge that any script can be used to write any dialect / language. I suppose the confusion suits the culprits needs well, which is they continue to exist.

Augusto

[Jose Fernandes]

On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Jose Fernandes <kon...@gmail.com> wrote:

Manest Augusto-bab,

"This is the reason why I get irritated with terms like 'Devanagari Konkani' and 'Romi Konkani' which are routinely used by both Konkani Bhasha Mandal and Dalgado Konkani Akademi members and by individuals like the Owner of this forum FN" oxem tumi boroylam. Khorem mhonnlear, 'Devanagari  Konkani' ani 'Romi Konkani' oxem borovpachi khorench goroz asa. Kiteak, Devnagori Konknniche bhokt Romi lipientlean boroyloli Konknni hi Konknnich nhoy oxem mhonntat. Ani hachem khoreponn amkam 2009 vorsa Jess Fernandes hachea Devnagori Konknnintlean lipeontor( transliteration)  kelolea 'Kirvontt' hea kovitanchea pustokak Sahitya Akademicho Puroskar favo zalo tachevelean zannvota. Kiteak 'Kirvontt' survatek Jess-baban Romi Konknnintlean boroylolem. Uprant Sahitya Akademicho Puroskar mellunk zay mhonn tem uprant Devnagori Konknnintlean uzvaddaylem.

In the world of Konknni whatever that is produced in 'Devache nagrin' (read as Devnagri) is divine.... 

Mog asum, 

Jose Salvador Fernandes    

    

[augusto pinto]

Manest Salu-bab,

Poile suater mhaka "August-bab" mhonn ulo kelear tidok marta. Durem pauti matxem upkar korun 'Augusto' mhollear puro.

Dusrem suater, jem hanvem boroila ani jem tuvem boroila tantunt vhoddlem-xem forok nam. Hanvem mhuntllam ki tumchem bhitor kitem cholta tem fokot politics. Ani tuvem dakhoun dilam ki tem khorem mhonnon.

Fokor differense hem ki tum mhonttai ki je Devanagrintlean boroitat tech politics kortat, pun hanv mhuntta ki tumi soglleach politics kortat.

Punn linguistically hem Devanagari ani Romi Konknni vo Konkani hea utrank kain arth nam.

Mog asum,

Augusto

[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎]

Augusto-bab,

Tum kitem mhuntta them sarkem. Punn...

What you say is true, except...

* The Official Language Act, 1987, does not treat all variants of Konkani equally.

* Our youngsters study not all the scripts and dialects in schools and colleges.

* This is a recipe to ensure some variants of the language thrive, and others don't.

* Some (versions of) Konkani are more Konkani than other versions.

All this is 'politics' too. Why deny the objective reality? At least, that's how I see it.

Is it political too to demand being addressed as bab? Or the opposite? 

FN

[Jason Keith Fernandes]

Can there be life, or language without politics?

That folks make a difference between Romi and Nagari indicates that there is in fact a difference, since outside of politics there is nothing.

J

--

-----------------------------------------------------
Read my thoughts at www.dervishnotes.blogspot.com
----------------------------------------------------
"Moral panics, even liberal ones, are poor guides to the complexity of the contemporary world." David Martin

[walter menezes]

Dear all,

Here is an interview with Jess Fernandes which first appeared on Gomantak Times dated 18.01.2010

walter

Walter Menezes catches up with Jess Fernandes, recipient of the prestigious Sahitya Akademi Award for his Konknni book of poems, Kirvontt. The Devnagri edition of the book was published in April, 2006 and the Romi version saw the light of day five months later. While the Award will be officially conferred on him at a ceremony to be held in New Delhi on February 16, 2010, Jess Fernandes is being felicitated today (18.01.2010) by Dalgado Konknni Akademi at a special function at Hotel Woodlands, Margao.

  

 

Christmas Gift

 

Sixty-eight summers ago, when he was born, his parents named him Menino Jesus da Maria Fernandes. Literally meaning Infant Jesus, the Son of Mary, the name became too ‘big’ for the would-be poet to carry on his shoulders, prompting him to change it to a more ‘humbler’ Jess at a later date in his life. But two days before Christmas - 2009, when Pundalik Naik, Convenor, Konknni Advisory Board & Executive Board Member, Sahitya Akademi called up from New Delhi to convey the ‘good news’, he knew it was the best Christmas gift Mother Mary could ever give him.

 

‘Saibinn-Main aplea Putachea zolma-disamni, dusrea eka putak sorgantlean dennem dhaddun dilem (During the days of the birth of her Son, Mother Mary blessed another son with a gift from the heavens above),’ Jess Fernandes gushed with happiness when I asked him for his immediate reactions upon receiving the call from Delhi.

 

A prolific Konknni writer, Jess Fernandes has penned several tiatrs, khell-tiatrs and one-act plays besides two collections of poems, Paimvatt and Kirvontt and novels like Nirmonn, Don Rupam, Jitlem Divxi Titlem Ghevxi, Bhaddeachem Jivit and Soput. Except Paimvatt and Kirvontt which are in Devnagri script, the remainder of his literary harvest is in the Roman script. Learning the Devnagri script, after Konknni became the Official Language of Goa, was not an easy task but once he learnt the ropes, he knew of the advantages the exercise offered him.

 

‘Hanv Devnagri lipiyentlem sahit’ya vachunk laglom. Ani mhaka zannovlem ki Romi (lipiyentlem sahit’ya) fattim nam mhunnun (I began to read literature in the Devnagri script. And I realized that literature in Roman script was not lagging behind),’ he said and explained that the 111 poems contained in Kirvontt were painstakingly selected from a sheaf of over 400 poems he has penned in Roman script since 1958.

 

‘Kamlakar Mhalsi was of great assistance in the making of Kirvontt,’ he informed, ‘and so were others like Anant Agni and Vernekar brothers, Gaurish and Dharmesh.’

 

 

Underneath the Coconut Tree

 

Jess Fernandes has spent thirty years in picturesque Palolem, once the bustling locale of toddy-tappers, before shifting base to Quepem in 1971. ‘He zagear mhojem rochonn dhorun, zolmanchea disachean mhojem soglem bhurgeponn ani tornatteponn te renvechea konneram modem ani maddanchea savlleam modem hanvem sarlem. Ani tea renderanchea rogta-ghaman maklolea gitamni ani kallzak hat ghalpi ulhaxi koxtti songitan mhojeant ek kovi rochlo (I was born here and from that time onwards, I have spent all my childhood and adolescent days amidst the grains of the sand and the shade of the coconut trees. And in the songs tinged with the sweat of the blood of the toddy-tappers and in the soul-stirring music of their sighs and labor, within me, a poet came to life),’ he writes in his introduction in Kirvontt of that special bond which exists between him and Palolem. ‘Although the house where my family stayed is no longer there, the coconut tree at whose feet I once sat and studied and wrote some of my earlier works, is still there. Now, whenever I get stuck for words or ideas, it is to Palolem and to my favorite spot that I travel to and believe me, that coconut tree always fills me with inspiration!’ he lets me on to one of his best kept secrets.

 

Beyond Poems and Stories

 

Having spent half his life in close contact with the fraternity of toddy-tappers, Jess Fernandes’ next offering is Render, a researched book on their life and is slated for release in the last week of February, 2010. Incidentally, he put up an exhibition of over 100 objects and implements of the toddy-tappers of Goa during the First World Konknni Convention in Mangalore in 1995. ‘With the help of Remedios Rebello of Quepem, we even put together a bhati (distillery) there,’ he said with a certain pride while my mouth watered at the very thought of coconut feni.

 

A founder member of renowned troupe Kepemchim Kirnnam led by Elvis Goes, Jess Fernandes has taken part in the First Manddo Festival organized by Mandd Sobhann in Mangalore. He was part of this troupe again when Mandd Sobhann’s Konknni Nirantari entered the Guinness Book of World Records for the longest non-stop singing marathon by multiple singers of Konknni choirs in 2008. ‘In fact, many of my lyrics are set to music by Elvis Goes and form an integral part of the programme whenever and wherever Kepemchim Kirnnam performs,’ he disclosed. Jess-bab has also provided lyrics for Joe D’Costa’s Goemkar Zaai and Orlando de Noronha’s Unforgettable Voices of Goa (Vol I), both audio CDs produced by Rock & Raaga.

 

A Piece of Advice

 

The 2005 recipient of Jezvit Antonio Pereira Konknni Puroskar for lifetime achievement in the field of literature and folklore, Jess Fernandes had this piece of advice for GenNext Konknni writers, ‘Zaitem vach’chem. Zaitem somzuchem. Zaitem pochovchem. Aple bhaxentleanuch nhoi punn dusrea-i bhaxentlem veg-vegllem sahit’ya. Copy marchi nhoi (Read a lot. Understand and digest a lot. Not only literature from your language but from other languages as well. Never copy).’

 

ENDS

[Cecil Pinto]

http://www.epaperoheraldo.in/Details.aspx?id=15446&boxid=65918942&uid=&dat=9/9/2015

Tomazinho Cardozo in today's O Heraldo

Being ‘ Modern’

We live in a modern society. Not all are equal in any society.

Every member of the society is different from others. These differences lie in his social, political and economic status. Whether rich or poor, literate or illiterate, every individual makes efforts to achieve a higher standard of living. In his pursuit to impress others in the society he tries to ape something new, something recent and something that attracts others’ attention in his way of living. In order to achieve this he attempts to improve the standard of his living such that it matches the standard of living in the so called modern society.

In other words, his efforts are directed towards becoming a part and parcel of modern life. He hopes to be modern and he wishes that others too call him a ‘ modern’ man. Thus he runs after everything that is modern – modern music, modern dance, modern theatre, modern fashions, modern gadgets, etc. etc. In short, he is obsessed with the modern lifestyles that dominate the modern society.

If we analyze our Goan society, Goans too have undergone a rapid change in this aspect in order to attain the so- called ‘ modern’ status.

Some have done it because they have pots of money and they have succeeded because in today’s Goan society money matters more than anything else. Even criminals and anti- social elements have achieved this status only because they are rich and wealthy. There are some who have managed to climb the ladder because they have excelled in education.

There are also a few individuals who attained this status because of their excellence in their respective fields such as art, science, economy, etc. There are many individuals thus who could become a part of this category, thanks to our democratic system. People have elected them and helped them to possess political power due to which they can control and execute things the way they wish. Political influence that they yield has helped them to get admission into this class of people.

However there are poor and middle- class families in Goa who also wish to be modern. They go all out to ape the Western culture.

They struggle to show that they are superior compared to others in that category.

They intentionally avoid speaking in their mother tongue Konkani and opt for English. Many a time the elders in the family do not know a word of English yet they speak broken English and make it compulsory for their children too to speak in English. They go all out to wear fashionable dresses that originate in the western countries. Electronic media such as TV and Internet have helped them in this respect.

If we observe this phenomenon we come to the conclusion that the rich or poor, literate or illiterate do make concerted efforts to be a ‘ modern man’ or a ‘ modern woman’. Although these people have attained this superficial modernity, yet they strongly believe in their age- old traditions, customs and rituals. Old fashioned rituals among the family members of these people can be observed on the occasion of marriages, births, deaths, etc. Hence the question arises, ‘ Who is a modern man or a modern woman?’ A modern man is one who has a high sense of his own personal value. He believes that a person’s status in life depends more on his own efforts than on fate. He believes that a job with more responsibility and more opportunity to exercise control is better than a job with less responsibility.

He believes scientific research is beneficial. And at times he becomes so concerned about a public issue that he wants to do something about it. In other words a modern man or woman is aware of everything that affects his/ her life and the lives of people surrounding him/ her.

Modern people have greater hopes of being able to control their own situations.

They tend to have more ambition; they believe that preventing accidents is more a matter of care than of luck. They believe that medicine is more effective in curing the sick than only prayers. They want to take up their own jobs and marital choices instead of allowing their family to decide these matters for them.

They like to meet people and to make plans; they belong to various organizations that are active in bringing change in the old mind- set of the people.

The modern person is broader in his vision and secular in his attitude. He believes in reality and not in superstitions. For example, modern man would take the advice of the government authorities instead of religious leaders.

He would identify with the nation and not with the ethnic group, the religion, or the region to which he belongs.

He believes in giving charity, not because of fear of God, but because of generosity.

The crop of the so called ‘ modern men’ or modern women’ that is emerging in our Goan society, I am afraid, does not seem to have such a broad outlook.

Until and unless we inculcate in ourselves the scientific attitude, until and unless we are aware of the problems and challenges surrounding us and until and unless we equip ourselves to face these challenges with confidence, it will be meaningless to call ourselves ‘ modern’. ( Tomazinho Cardozo is a former Speaker of Goa Legislative Assembly) Tomazinho Cardozo They intentionally avoid speaking in their mother tongue Konkani and opt for English. Many a time the elders in the family do not know a word of English yet they speak broken English

 
=================

[Eugene Correia]

I have heard the term Antruzi only recently. In my talks with the late Prof. Jose Pereira and late Fr. Mathew Almeida, they didn't mention this word. They rather emphazied on the scripts. FN has often used Padrebhas, which I believe is "liturgical language."

When in Goa on my visits in past years and when I went to Church and opened the pages of the scripture book or the book of hymns, I used to find hard to comprehend the words. I supposed this was the way the new Konkani was written and the words were "invented" or "formed" to go with the trend in modern Konkani.

If new additions are to be made to the spiritual or church language I believe the scholars or those who are entrusted with the task of modifying the church literature have taken efforts to incorporate new words. I find the people, especially young and the youth, quite adapt in reading the Padrebhas, as it probably said.

The trend to standardize Konkani started more than a decade ago. The Goa church newletters and papers kept following the path of the new wave of Konkani writing. Even Vavreandancho Ixtt following the trend. I found it hard to follow, often struggling to know the meanings of new words.

Someone who grew up reading Udentecho Naketr, Goa Times, Goa Mail, Ave Maria, and later Cine Times, the new Konkani astounded the senses. Dr. Simon Fernandes and others refused to use this new Konkani and stuck to the old language.

Even Prof. Lourdinho Rodrigues and Dr. Olivinho Gomes wrote in Devnagiri Konknni and perhaps also promoted the script, much to the chagrin of the Romiwadis. I suppose scholars of the language, such as mentioned above, were rooting for Devnagiri. I have heard that the Nagri script captures the naunces and sounds of Konkani much better than in Romi script.

The battlelines on the language issue is obviously tinged with politics. But, by and large, two scripts have room to grow, not at the cost of each other. I doubt there's a middle path or a compromise. Each writer chooses to write his own way. A writer can choose to write in both scripts, and the heavens won't fall down.

To bring in such words like Antruzi to describe certain language is to give it a third angle. Bardezi and Xaxti have been accepted as two "dialects" and Konkani has been spoken in other varied tongues, in the south as well as in the north of Goa. I found people in the Canacona region speak in a different way and their pronunciations seemed strange to this Mumbai Goan. My own relatives often wondered what "tongue" I am speaking the language. I recently heard another Goan lady speak and when enquired which area she belongs to I was told she is from the Quepen area but a Mumbai Goan.

Vive le difference.

Eugene

[augusto pinto]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "augusto pinto" <pint...@gmail.com>
Date: 09-Sep-2015 10:21 pm
Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] THE SHAME OF SPEAKING KONKANI

To: "Jason Keith Fernandes" <jason.k....@gmail.com>
Cc:

Jason I refuse to be sidetracked by the sophistry that you and FN are using.

Sure there is a difference, but the difference is political not linguistic, I reiterate.

From a linguistic point of view the example of Jess Fernandes who used the Devanagari script first (not the other way round as Jose Salvador claims BTW) and got the SA award before publishing in the Romi script.

Or see how writers who first wrote using Devanagari like Maya Kharangate, Jayanti Naik and so many others  are transliterated so facilely by Gulag. Dilip Borkar uses Romi originally in Gulab and Devanagari in Bimb (his own publication).

On the linguistic front you and FN don't have a foot to stand on.

However  so we can agree everything is political.

The question as I see it is whether the political divide should persist.

I think if a modus vivendi is evolved whereby proponents of both scripts can share power equitably it would result in great synergies. Being a translator I favor this arrangement.

There is another view however which Alito (if I've got him right) seems to propound: the present arrangement whereby the D-Company and R-Company are in Cold War mode is the one that will result in maximum peace and maximum creativity!

I have indicated my preference but the current political scenario suggests that Alito's formula will prevail. However I don't believe that this will result in any great advancement.

Maybe the audiovisual media of TV and Film will circumvent the problems which the Literati have created.
Augusto

[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎]

On 9 September 2015 at 22:25, augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:

On the linguistic front you and FN don't have a foot to stand on.

Hi Gusto, I think that you are attempting to 'shame' Jason and me by insinuating that your spoken/written Konkani is more acceptable than ours.

If this is the case (tell us if it isn't), in what manner are you superior to those whom you criticise for 'shaming' others because of the Konkani *they* speak? FN

[augusto pinto]

On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا <frederic...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 9 September 2015 at 22:25, augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:

On the linguistic front you and FN don't have a foot to stand on.

Hi Gusto, I think that you are attempting to 'shame' Jason and me by insinuating that your spoken/written Konkani is more acceptable than ours.

 

Dear Owner of Goa Book Club,

I am baffled. Please explain how and where and when I have insinuated that my spoken/written Konkani is more acceptable than yours and Jason's?

Incidentally I notice that my mail has been scrubbed out by you in your message and only one comment "On the linguistic front you and FN don't have a foot to stand on." has been quoted without the accompanying context.

If this is the case (tell us if it isn't), in what manner are you superior to those whom you criticise for 'shaming' others because of the Konkani *they* speak? FN

I can't comment on this because the premise that it is based on is pretty fuzzy. As far as I can understand you are merely trying to bait me into say something indiscreet or abusive which to be honest is exactly what I am itching to do at this hour.

My advice to you is to read my complete mail, try and attempt to understand what I am saying, and then think first, before shooting off. If you simply want to win brownie points then let me say - have a walk-over - I'm just not competing.

For your convenience I am repeating what I have said earlier below after correcting some typos and making some points more clear:

On 09-Sep-2015 1:17 pm, "Jason Keith Fernandes" <jason.k....@gmail.com> wrote:

Can there be life, or language without politics?

That folks make a difference between Romi and Nagari indicates that there is in fact a difference, since outside of politics there is nothing.

To which I replied on 09-Sep-2015 10:21 pm:

"Jason I refuse to be sidetracked by the sophistry that you and FN are using.

Sure there is a difference, but the difference, I reiterate, is political not linguistic.

From a linguistic point of view the example of Jess Fernandes who used the Devanagari script first (not the other way round as Jose Salvador claims BTW) and who got the Sahitya Akademi award before publishing in the Romi script is an instance where both scripts can be equally effective.

Or see how writers who first wrote using Devanagari like Maya Kharangate, Jayanti Naik and so many others  are transliterated so facilely by Gulab. Dilip Borkar uses Romi originally in Gulab and Devanagari in Bimb (his own publication).

On the linguistic front you and FN don't have a foot to stand on.

However yes, we can agree that everything is political. The question as I see it is whether the political divide should persist. I think if a modus vivendi is evolved whereby proponents of both scripts can share power equitably it would result in great synergies. Being a translator I favor this arrangement.

There is another view however which Alito (if I've got him right) seems to propound: the present arrangement whereby the D-Company and R-Company are in Cold War mode is the one that will result in maximum peace and maximum creativity!

I have indicated my preference but the current political scenario suggests that Alito's wishes will prevail. However I don't believe that this will result in any great advancement for Konkani.

Maybe the audiovisual media of TV and Film will circumvent the problems which the Literati have created.
Augusto"

On 09-Sep-2015 1:17 pm, "Jason Keith Fernandes" <jason.k....@gmail.com> wrote:

Can there be life, or language without politics?

That folks make a difference between Romi and Nagari indicates that there is in fact a difference, since outside of politics there is nothing.

J

--

P +91-832-2409490 M 9822122436 Twitter: @fn Facebook: fredericknoronha

Goa,1556 Shared Content at https://archive.org/details/goa1556

--

[augusto pinto]

The Shame of Speaking Konkani - II
In which Dale Menezes clobbers fellow GBC member poor Dam-bab with a big danda for 'shaming' his "amcho" Alfred Rose...

(This was the letter Dam-bab had written in the Herald:

Speak Konkani

‘The Shame of Speaking Konkani’ by Dale Luis Menezes (Sept 2, 2015) brought back memories of more than 40 years. I was returning after my aunt had boarded a Mumbai-bound bus near the Customs House in the city. I heard a familiar and melodious voice. A man and his wife were conversing in English. I went close to them and asked him whether he was not Alfred Rose. He replied in the positive. I told him that I liked all his songs over the AIR (there was no TV then), but the best song I enjoyed was “Konkani! Tika shellant heddun menn diunk zai” (Do not keep Konkani in the kitchen, she must be given due respect in the drawing room of the house). You can well imagine the contortions of embarrassment on his face which I still remember.

Menezes has wrongly mentioned caste and religion as markers of dialects. It is only region that decides the dialect. Otherwise, a Mangesh Pai (Saraswat Brahmin) from Varca wouldn’t speak the same dialect as Churchill Alemao and an Alex Goes from Madkai wouldn’t speak the same dialect as his neighbouring Kamats of Kamatwaddo.

If the chronic shaming and humiliation of Konkani needs to end, we have to bring it to the ‘drawing room’ and at least speak it, if not write!

Damodar K Kamat Ghanekar, Campal)

Incidentally I notice that Dale says he is based at Leiden University, The Netherlands; formerly it used to be JNU; and before that M.S. Gaekwad University Baroda.

Is he doing Educational Tourism or what, I ask?

http://daleluismenezes.blogspot.in/

Wednesday, 16 September 2015

THE SHAME OF SPEAKING KONKANI – II

The writing of a second installment to my article ‘The Shame of Speaking Konkani’ (published a fortnight ago), is partly for emphasizing the problem at hand and partly fortuitous.  I say fortuitous because, in response to my article, Damodar K Kamat Ghanekar wrote a letter to the editor (4 September, 2015) and had a rather interesting anecdote to narrate in the same. The manner in which the abovementioned anecdote is narrated further allows us to see how shame and humiliation operates within Konkani language politics.

Recounting an incident which happened some 40 years ago, Ghanekar mentions how he came across Alfred Rose and his wife conversing in English in Panjim. When Ghanekar inquired whether it was really Alfred Rose, he indicates that Alfred Rose became painfully uncomfortable so much so that one could “well imagine the contortions of embarrassment [emphasis mine] on his face [Alfred Rose] which I [Ghanekar] still remember”.

There is something deeply unsettling about recounting a person’s embarrassment in a public place with such gleeful abundance. In Ghanekar’s telling, Alfred Rose not only appears to be a deeply shamed person but also a hypocrite. However, there is nothing hypocritical in what Alfred Rose did. In fact, as I have pointed out time and again it is quite normal for persons to use two or more languages to negotiate through their daily life. So why did Alfred Rose feel so embarrassed by the encounter with Ghanekar?

Unfortunately, I do not have an exact answer to this. This is because as students of history well know, we are confronted with only one side of the story. And, as we are aware, it is often the victor who recounts the story. Further, rather than being embarrassed about speaking in Konkani, Alfred Rose was allegedly embarrassed for speaking in English. It is highly unlikely that Alfred Rose’s English skills were the source of his embarrassment; surely his English was as good as his Konkani!

Presumably, Ghanekar approached Alfred Rose in Konkani, for if it was in English than we would not have had any problem. My suggestion here is that Ghanekar was using an Antruzi variant of Konkani and this, I believe, is the key to the source of the embarrassment. The problem is that the Antruzi boli, located within an upper caste location and politics, is the source of much shaming and humiliation to anyone who fails to adequately reproduce the speech and ways of being of this dialect. The failure to live up to the Antruzi dialect does not simply cause embarrassment, but also causes much pain and anguish – resulting in the silence of many in Goa.

Such a situation has been noted by some other writers as well. For instance, an anecdote recounted by Jason Keith Fernandes in his doctoral thesis seems to be apt in understanding the embarrassment (or silence) that Alfred Rose experienced. Fernandes recounts, “In the course of our conversations [with a priest] around Konkani, this priest indicated a strong friendship he enjoyed with a Hindu gentleman. At one point however, the priest recounted that he was reproached by his friend: ‘Why is it that you never speak to me in Konkani’ the friend asked. To this question the priest responded that he felt ashamed, since his friend’s Konkani was so perfect, so pure, whereas his own was the ‘impure’ version that the Catholics speak”. At the risk of stretching the anecdote that Ghanekar provides ad absurdum, I would like to suggest that Alfred Rose was doubly trapped as the language politics that Alfred Rose subscribed to privileged only Konkani, and being called out for speaking in English by a person speaking Antruzi Konkani meant that there was no hope for redemption!

And what are we to make of the abundant glee with which Ghanekar recounts a 40-year-old anecdote of sarcastically indicating to Alfred Rose that he should do as he preaches? The clever way in which Ghanekar slipped a line from Alfred Rose’s song in the conversation – “Tika [Konkani] shellant heddun menn diunk zai” – is another way in which the shame of speaking Konkani is perpetuated. While Ghanekar’s encounter with Alfred Rose had resulted in “contortions of embarrassment” 40 years ago, the recounting of the same in the columns of a newspaper without any sensitivity or understanding has surely contorted many a Goan face with embarrassment today.

It is not surprising that in trying to prove the hypocrisy of Alfred Rose, Ghanekar reinforces a similar diktat that Alfred Rose does in his song Anv Konkani Zannam – to restore the pride in Konkani. Though Alfred Rose actively propagated some key tenets of the Nagri/Antruzi politics, he seems to have not escaped the shaming due to Konkani. After all, didn’t he say that we should feel proud about Konkani?

To reiterate, I strongly believe that Alfred Rose was not being hypocritical. On the contrary he was a product of his times as well as a victim of it. But to think that Alfred Rose was merely embarrassed for being ‘caught’ speaking in English is to not recognize the pain and suffering behind the “contortions of embarrassment”. By denying the real pain and suffering we perpetuate the shame and humiliation. As a linguist/lexicographer of Nagri Konkani, Ghanekar at least ought to have known this. 

(First published in O Heraldo, dt: 16 September, 2015) 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 8:11 PM, augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:

http://daleluismenezes.blogspot.in/

Wednesday, 2 September 2015

THE SHAME OF SPEAKING KONKANI

In this column I would like to discuss one of Alfred Rose’s most popular songs, Anv Konknni Zannam (I Know Konkani), which he sang along with his wife, Rita Rose. Given that the issue of language – particularly ‘mother tongue’ – is being hotly debated in Goa presently, this particular song provides an opportunity to reflect on a serious issue about the Konkani language that is rarely spoken about.

The song is a duet featuring one singer as a crooner who desires to get a break into the Konkani tiatr industry and the second singer, Alfred Rose, essays the role of an interviewer, scrutinizing the singing skills of the crooner in question. However, there is one problem: the crooner cannot speak Konkani ‘properly’. Her Konkani is highly anglicized, which provides much fodder in the song for ridicule. For example, when this highly anglicized Konkani is being scoffed at, the crooner protests saying “Mhaka eok chance diun, why don’t you try”. To which the ‘interviewer’ retorts: “Try try try kitem kor mhunntai try,/…Osli Konknni bhas Goenkar uloit zalear,/ Konknnichi, zali chili fry”.

Further in the song, the aspiring crooner actually tries to demonstrate her Konkani skills – albeit in her anglicized Konkani – by singing some popular mandde (or Indo-Portuguese folk songs in Konkani). When she is abruptly stopped by the ‘interviewer’, the aspiring crooner sings, “Why are you angry, I’m very sorry,/…I’ve asked my daddy, I’ve asked my mummy,/To teach me to speak real Konkani”. What needs to be noted is the emphasis placed on “real Konkani”. At this point, the song takes a preachy turn, wherein Alfred Rose sermonizes about the necessity to speak Konkani. I would argue that this song also reproduces some of the oppressive strands of Konkani language politics. But more on this later.

Alfred Rose as the ‘interviewer’ superciliously reasons with the crooner saying that in Africa she would speak Swahili, in Germany she would speak German, and Arabic in Arabia, so how did she forget Konkani, which undoubtedly is her ‘mother tongue’ owing to the fact that her parents are Goans? It is at this juncture that the crooner reveals that in reality she did not forget the Konkani language; rather she was feeling “shy” to speak Konkani. Further, she had learnt Konkani from the cooks (kuzner). Hence, Alfred Rose sings that when the parents speak Konkani, why should the children be brought up in English? Rather than treating Konkani as a second-class language, we should all be proud of it, he adds.

Although ‘shyness’ is given as the cause of the crooner not speaking in ‘proper’ Konkani, in reality it is the shame and humiliation associated with speaking Konkani publicly that generally prevents people from robustly using the language. This feeling of shame and humiliation is not a rarity, but in fact is deeply symptomatic of the public experience of Konkani. This means that one would not experience this shame or humiliation whilst speaking to or conversing among friends and family, but would certainly do so in a Konkani language classroom or while interviewing for a job, both situations that require fluency in the Antruzi dialect and the nagri script in the Goa of today. These feelings are strongly tied to the caste system, and dialects are markers of caste, religion, and region that are used to discriminate people who associate with such dialects.

Within the current Konkani language establishment, Romi Konkani and the various types of accents and dialects other than Antruzi-nagri Konkani are not given public legitimacy. Hence, many bahujan Catholics and tribal peoples across Goa feel shamed and humiliated to speak their Konkani outside the comfort zone of friends and family. In fact, on the public level, speaking and standing up for these non-Antruzi-nagri forms of Konkanis would certainly be nothing short of an ordeal by fire! Being humiliated for speaking other forms of Konkani is a very serious problem.

It is this problem of a large number of Goans, of feeling shy, ashamed, and humiliated, that is not taken into consideration by either Alfred Rose in his song or even by Romi Konkani activists. Instead, what is generally done is to blame the mass of Goans (for instance, the Catholics) for failing to serve the Konkani language – and thus their Goan identity – by refusing to speak or support it publicly.

Further, by emphasizing on a ‘real’ and ‘proper’ Konkani, this song also privileges a singular form of Konkani as acceptable. Making fun of anglicized accents can also mean that the ‘foreign’ influences on Konkani need to be shunned. This particular song (along with others) of Alfred Rose reproduces a vision of language politics in Goa that values only the Konkani language. If such prejudices were handed down by the dominant or Nagri Konkani establishment, it can be observed that the Romi Konkani activists have not done much to rectify the problem.

So in conclusion one can say that Alfred Rose was both right and wrong simultaneously. He could see the problem but not in its entirety and seriousness. This has been the failure of Konkani activism till now. Perhaps, this is also one of the reasons why the mass of Goans demand English for the primary schooling of their children. In this grim scenario, English seems the only way out of being shamed and humiliated on a daily basis. Before we can read, write, speak, and preserve Konkani forever (vach, boroi, uloi sodamkal), this chronic shaming and humiliation needs to end.

(First published in O Heraldo, dt: 2 September, 2015)

[augusto pinto]

There's one thing which a friend of mine who may not like to be quoted told me, Dale needed to emphasize how privilege and purity work best when they are not noticed by the ones who have them, and therefore they don't even realize that they leave a trail of shame on the rest.

And they themselves don't have a twinge of guilt, although they are the ones who are being obnoxious; but on the contrary their victims are the ones who feel guilty - and the victims can be as high-profile Konkani stars as Alfred Rose who was intimidated by our Dam-bab's taunts.

Arre Damu, tujem Chovoth havn piddear korunk sodina re. Punn kitem asta, sangpachem tem sangunk zai, jivoch astana. Ragar zaupachem na. Ani rag aillear tujeach saudik borem nhoi.

Mog asun di,
Augusto

[augusto pinto]

I think the sledgehammer blows that Dale hammered on poor Dam-bab's, to which I too added my kilo or so worth of weight needs to be tempered a little with some fairness.

Although Dam-bab can be quite provocative and downright offensive publicly, in his professional work as a lexicographer he is pretty meticulous and objective in my opinion.

I say this because all the Rajhauns dictionaries of which he has been a key element of the team which produced he big fat Konkani - Konkani Abhyaskosh, the 2 volume Konkani - English, the small English - Konkani one are the tools of my trade, when I trade as a translator.

There he and his team do not parade their prejudices, (as Dam-bab sometimes can be seen to do on mailing lists where he sometimes get cornered)

He for instance he quite openly gives the etymology of Konkani words - and these quite often tend to be those which have roots in  Greek and Latin,  Portuguese,  English and other European languages; not to mention Sanskrit, Hindi, Marathi and other Indian languages.

 I am quite grateful for this.

Regards

Augusto

[Alito Siqueira]

Yes. Recognising as you have  done leads to complexity which sometimes gets lost or missplaced by abuse.  I can also remember that Hanv Kon had an essay on this theme and I am acutely aware that I have not published it.
Regards,
Alito

[dale luis menezes]

Dear Agusto,

I am in agreement with most of the comments you made regarding my articles on the 'Shame of Speaking Konkani'. I however would like to disagree, with all due respect, that I have been "clobber[ing]" or "hammer[ing]" and so on and so forth. This is not what I have tried to do. I am in the business of "educational tourism" and not in clobbering or hammering.

If I may reiterate, I want to discuss the operation of shaming and humiliation in Konkani politics and the eloquent insight by your friend ("...Dale needed to emphasize how privilege and purity work best when they are not noticed by the ones who have them, and therefore they don't even realize that they leave a trail of shame on the rest") is quite helpful. I am of course in agreement. Your friend is right that I was not able to articulate this strand in my piece. I guess the question now is how to articulate this in a sympathetic manner given that we will be dealing with the real pain and anguish of persons.

Regards,

D

[augusto pinto]

Dear Dale,

I am glad that you have learned to read rhetoric in a rhetorical manner.

Your comment where you say you want to discuss the operation of shaming and humiliation in Konkani politics and the eloquent insight by my friend (("...Dale needed to emphasize how privilege and purity work best when they are not noticed by the ones who have them, and therefore they don't even realize that they leave a trail of shame on the rest") is quite helpful. I am of course in agreement. Your friend is right that I was not able to articulate this strand in my piece. I guess the question now is how to articulate this in a sympathetic manner given that we will be dealing with the real pain and anguish of persons.")) is one that moves in a direction which I approve of, but which may or may not result in change.

What my friend was talking about was the phenomenon known as 'hegemony'. It's not only Dam-bab who can be victim of this mind-controlling magic which controls everyone else's mind including people like Salu-bab who one would have thought was a victim of Dam-bab's hegemony. (To understand this point look at my criticism of Salu's translation of the story 'The Cat was to Blame' for the storyweaver.com website. For in the story about the cat which he sought to translate he became just like Dam-bab: a Brahminical unconcsious prescriber.)

OK Dale, I'm waiting for you to ask me whether I am also not in the thrall of some hegemonic order or whether I am the exception to my rule. I admit that I may well probably be, nay - I most certainly am.

But the nature of hegemony is such that those who are controlled by it don't have any realization that this is the case. Only others can indicate to me which hegemonic rule I am a slave of.

So tell me somebody: Who is the Sultan of this Slave?

Augusto