Luis de Menezes Braganza: Natiionalism, Secularism, and Free-Thought in Portuguese Goa by Goa

[augusto pinto]

I bought the Menezes Braganza book by Sushila Mendes Almeida Coutinho on 9 January 2015 and I've been trying to find a cue to enter into a discussion of this book which  was supposed to be released at Institute Menezes Braganza but was anticipated to an earlier date for reasons which only Sushila can tell us (and I bet she won't  

The mysterious change of release date after the printed invitations were sent out (I have one) could have been a way of approaching the book but I thought the petty politics between the author and various segments of the Govt. was too banal to comment upon. What can you expect when you put your life in the hands of the Govt.?

So I went on plodding through the LMB volume by Dr Mendes and was getting thoroughly bored until I reached page 146 when I suddenly sat up. Read what follows:

"A reflection on Portuguese rule in Goa shows that the Church did little to alleviate the poverty of the people. In fact, the Jesuits owned large agricultural tracts and coconut plantations in Salcete, some of it left behind by locals fleeing Goa on account of religious persecution. The actual state of affairs clearly proved that the Church was not neutral in the political struggle that was going on in Goa. In fact ti was vitally concerned with the defence of the political power with which its status was closely interwoven, both historically and statutorily."

An Eureka moment hit me and I said: HA! Now I get it why the Govt. of Goa's Dept. of Art and Culture decided to lavish so much benevolence on an academic book, even paying Dr Mendes Rs 1 lakh for the copyright when it knows that academic theses are unbearably boring!

Of course I've only reached page 146 -7 and the plot might still change. but I think statements like "The Church of Rome was an international organization and exercised control on its followers. Due to this control, the interests of Indians were subordinated to those fo the totalitarian systems actively collaborating with the Portuguese fascists  and other regimes not only in Goa but everywhere in Europe." are fodder for the anti-Church brigade. 

Before you accuse me of falsely implicating either the Church or the Govt. or for that matter Dr Sushila Mendes Almeida Coutinho in sin, please read what I've said carefully.

Love

Augusto

[Ben Antao]

AP: "A reflection on Portuguese rule in Goa shows that the Church did little to alleviate the poverty of the people. In fact, the Jesuits owned large agricultural tracts and coconut plantations in Salcete, some of it left behind by locals fleeing Goa on account of religious persecution. The actual state of affairs clearly proved that the Church was not neutral in the political struggle that was going on in Goa. In fact ti was vitally concerned with the defence of the political power with which its status was closely interwoven, both historically and statutorily."

 

Who is saying the above?  Sushila Mendes or Menezes Braganza?  The same question for the second quotation below.

 

Best regards

Ben

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[augusto pinto]

Dear Ben

Both the quotes are from the Chapter 6 'State'  and Church. They are a summary by Sushila Mendes I think based on an article or letter of his written in the Gomantak, an English journal in Bombay in 1940.

I was disappointed by the manner in which the political caste struggles are depicted by the author - what she refers to as political struggle appears to be caste struggle - but she seems chary of naming the contending factions ie the Bamons, Chardos, Sudras, Gawdas, various Hindu merchant castes and so on. As a result  one is unnecessarily left to guess who is who.

This is one of the reasons for my impatience with the book: if one is scared of naming names or indicating which castes one is referring to, the writing tends to get bland and tiresome. For instance she mentions in a chapter devoted to the family tree of the Menezes Braganza, that F X Braganza (LMB's grandfather married a woman from 'a caste that was different from his' Now what are we to make of that for to marry a Bamon would be one thing and to marry a Gawda something else. So ultimately one concludes that she was a Sudra 

  

From what one gathers so far LMB was an intelligent but somewhat ineffectual character. He was able to see what was happening to the Goan economy of the time and the mess the Church and State were creating and railed at it through the press. But ultimately he was squashed like a cockroach - his printing press was destroyed - and he ended up taking potshots at the Portuguese from afar. And ultimately he ended his days in Portugal. 

Augusto 

[Teotonio R. de Souza]

I am not impressed by Augusto's habit of taking potshots at what in a book or posting irritates him! Is it too late in life for Augusto to gain some patience, read a whole book, digest the contents and do some supplementary readings if required, before firing off as soon as he comes across an overt or covert reference to his red rag of castes? That is hardly a good trait in a moderator! I am intrigued by Augusto's questioning about author not discriminating the castes whenever castes are mentioned in the book. Apparentlly, the reader should be spoon fed, and not left to guess! That reminds me of Ben asking me a few days ago to explain a passage in one of my texts which he admitted having read in a hurry and concluded what I had not said. 

Could GBC promote good habits of reading? Or should an author write a book and then sit with every reader to help him / her to read it? One novelty at least that Augusto brings in his fast comments: (LMB) "ended his days in Portugal.". What is the reference to this historic discovery?

Teotonio 

[Ben Antao]

Dear Augusto

 

Thanks for your detailed response. There are a few points that seem odd to me. See below red.

 

 

Both the quotes are from the Chapter 6 'State'  and Church. They are a summary by Sushila Mendes I think based on an article or letter of his written in the Gomantak, an English journal in Bombay in 1940.

 

Luis de Menezes Braganza (1878-1938) died in Chandor in 1938, so the Gomantak reference seems improbable.

 

From what one gathers so far LMB was an intelligent but somewhat ineffectual character. He was able to see what was happening to the Goan economy of the time and the mess the Church and State were creating and railed at it through the press. But ultimately he was squashed like a cockroach - his printing press was destroyed - and he ended up taking potshots at the Portuguese from afar. And ultimately he ended his days in Portugal.

 

From what I’ve read (a few essays and journalistic pieces) LMB was a formidable journalist and freedom fighter “who vehemently opposed the military dictatorship imposed by the Portuguese President Dr Oliveira Salazar, through the Acto Colonia of 1930, an act that denied civil rights to all Portuguese subjects and citizens.” (Quote from my travelogue Goa, a Rediscovery, 2004).

 

In February 2004 I visited the mansion of LMB in Chandor, now a heritage property, with two wings for the two sons of the wealthy Braganza family.

 

A frail old woman named Aurea Braganza Pereira gave me a tour of the east wing with its antique-filled rooms, the grand ballroom, and a 300-year-old

baroque private chapel.

 

After that Ida Menezes Braganza, also frail and old, and daughter-in-law of Luis de Menezes Braganza, gave me a tour of the west wing.

 

The above quote in red sounds terribly prejudicial and one-sided to me. The great man died at his mansion in Chandor (heart attack), a fact that is mentioned in Lambert Mascarenhas’ novel Sorrowing Lies My Land towards the end of the book.

 

Since Sushila Mendes is in Goa, you can check with her about her research and what I’ve written.

[augusto pinto]

Dear Teotonio

Your argument cuts no ice with me when you say: "I'm intrigued by Augusto's questioning about author not discriminating the castes whenever castes are mentioned in the book. Apparentlly, the reader should be spoon fed, and not left to guess!"

When Sushila keeps a theme hidden, a theme that runs throughout LMB's life and which deserved to be discussed candidly, then s/he is setting an agenda. I think a reader deserves an explanation for this practice. It also marks a missed opportunity in her research. Your own review follows her agenda by just touching on this caste theme in a phrase:

https://www.academia.edu/7744809/Luis_de_Menezes_Bragan%C3%A7a_From_free-thinking_to_nationalism

BTW I'm glad you're becoming more skilled at pointing out red herrings! One lives and learns.

Augusto

[augusto pinto]

I'm glad that we have on this forum worthies like you and Teotonio who will not swallow the pablum I feed you but who will do your own homework to check out what is written. Congratulations on not falling for the pranks I play.

I'm sure Sushila Sawant Mendes who is on this forum and is probably seething at my remarks will come and clarify when she sees fit. When I last met her it was in the wake of the Stanley Coutinho review and she was quite upset and she said she was not going to make any response which is an unwise stance to take IMNSHO.

Yeah I guess that I damn LMB with faint praise but given a few qualifications I basically stick to the assertion. More anon.

Cheers

[Teotonio R de Souza]

I am glad to have it from the horse's mouth that GBC is a place for on-topic pranks and off-topic serious discussions! 

Let no SoB come to tell me something else!

Enviado do meu iPhone

This is one of the reasons for my impatience with the book: if one is scared of naming names or indicating which castes one is referring to, the writing tends to get bland and tiresome. For instance she mentions in a chapter devoted to the family tree of the Menezes Braganza, that F X Braganza (LMB's grandfather married a woman from 'a caste that was different from his' Now what are we to make of that for to marry a Bamon would be one thing and to marry a Gawda something else. So ultimately one concludes that she was a Sudra <361.gif>

From what one gathers so far LMB was an intelligent but somewhat ineffectual character. He was able to see what was happening to the Goan economy of the time and the mess the Church and State were creating and railed at it through the press. But ultimately he was squashed like a cockroach - his printing press was destroyed - and he ended up taking potshots at the Portuguese from afar. And ultimately he ended his days in Portugal.

 

Augusto

On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Ben Antao <ben....@rogers.com> wrote:

AP: "A reflection on Portuguese rule in Goa shows that the Church did little to alleviate the poverty of the people. In fact, the Jesuits owned large agricultural tracts and coconut plantations in Salcete, some of it left behind by locals fleeing Goa on account of religious persecution. The actual state of affairs clearly proved that the Church was not neutral in the political struggle that was going on in Goa. In fact ti was vitally concerned with the defence of the political power with which its status was closely interwoven, both historically and statutorily."

 

Who is saying the above?  Sushila Mendes or Menezes Braganza?  The same question for the second quotation below.

 

Best regards

Ben

 

 From: augusto pinto

Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 12:07 PM

To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [Bulk] [GOABOOKCLUB] Luis de Menezes Braganza: Natiionalism, Secularism, and Free-Thought in Portuguese Goa by Goa

 

I bought the Menezes Braganza book by Sushila Mendes Almeida Coutinho on 9 January 2015 and I've been trying to find a cue to enter into a discussion of this book which  was supposed to be released at Institute Menezes Braganza but was anticipated to an earlier date for reasons which only Sushila can tell us (and I bet she won't <360.gif> 

[Teotonio R de Souza]

Augusto

What makes you think your obsessions should be shared by me or anyone else? Besides, in the ante-penultimate para of my review I state that any good research raises questions for new research. There is never a last word in historical research. 

Enviado do meu iPhone

[augusto pinto]

Dear TRS
My obsession with caste was shared by LMB.

Your mail indicates that we can agree that a lot of further research can be done in this area.

I won't respond further. Feel free to have the last word
August

[Teotonio R de Souza]

Dear Augusto

I am sorry I had not realized that the fish eating brahmin of Sangolda preferred red herrings to red rags!

Enviado do meu iPhone

No dia 07/02/2015, às 14:35, augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com> escreveu:

[sushila mendes]

Dear Augusto,

Thanks for attending my book release function.Since you have raised the issue as to why the release was preponed,I need to inform you that it was done at the instance of Mr.Shekhar Gupta.

 

Your next issue over copyright,please note that you have missed the page which states very clearly that I alone hold the copyright for my book.I have not been paid Rs. one lakh,as  falsely alleged by you.

 

Both these above clarifications,however have nothing to do with the contents of the book.

 

Menezes Braganza's view's on the role of the Church were already in the public domain through his writings in Portuguese.He attacked the Church of the colonial period as being the handmaid of the State.

 

Please note that LMB passed away in Goa and not in Portugal.

 

Anyway Augusto I am happy that you are reading the book and let's together place LMB's thoughts on the table.

 

It is past one a.m.,hope to continue with many more issues that this book has generated tommorrow.

 

Thanks,

Sushila Sawant Mendes.

[augusto pinto]

Dear Sushila

Welcome to the table! I'm sure you'll do a better job at clarifying what you have to say than some of the efforts we've seen so far.

Augusto

[Thalmann Pereira]

Sushila,
Greetings.
Putting across some views / questions arising from your book:-
LMB was writing in Portuguese. So,  all those Goans (of his times) who were uneducated knew nothing about his fiery views, except maybe through servant quarter gossip that he holds fiery views.
Secondly,  merely knowing to read and write Portuguese would hardly have been a qualification to understand his fiery views in all their breadth and depth.
Even amongst the elite educated section (Lisbon returned?),  how many actually had the time to read his fiery views ?
So,  question arises: What was the circulation figure of his newspapers?
And yet,  who exactly and WHY EXACTLY decided to burn down his press? What was the threat perception in this respect?

In the context of above propositions  regarding LMB's exact readership in Portuguese,  when and where and why exactly did Dr.  T. B. CUNHA decide to write his fiery views in English language?

Did the Portuguese government allow public gatherings / public meetings in Goa, in each of the three phases (constitutional monarchy,  republic,  dictatorship)?
Did LMB conduct and address public meetings to disseminate his views?

Regards.

[Leroy Veloso]

Well Sangodkars are traditionally known as" Khandekars" , sellers/ growers of onions.

Maybe therein lies the source of acerbic thought on GBC.

Warm Regards,
leroy


Leroy Mario Veloso
Assistant Professor, Social Work.
Acting Programme Coordinator
P.G Dept. of Social Work

Don Bosco Institute for Post Graduate Studies and Research
Panaji, Goa - 403001
Mob. :- 9881333927/9768800666
Email:- leroy...@yahoo.com

“The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires.”------- William Arthur Ward

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 2/7/15, Teotonio R de Souza <teode...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Bulk] [GOABOOKCLUB] Luis de Menezes Braganza: Natiionalism, Secularism, and Free-Thought in Portuguese Goa by Goa
To: "goa-bo...@googlegroups.com" <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Saturday, February 7, 2015, 9:44 PM

Dear
AugustoI am sorry I had not realized that the

Sudra   From what

[Jose]

On Feb 7, 2015, at 5:18 AM, Teotonio R. de Souza (TRS) wrote:

TRS 1: I am not impressed by Augusto's habit of taking potshots at what in a book or posting irritates him! 

jc: I am impressed by his steadfastness in CENSORING responses to his Pot Shots!

TRS 2: Is it too late in life for Augusto to gain some patience, read a whole book, digest the contents and do some supplementary readings if required, before firing off .....

jc: Age is just a number.....and BTW ....It was too late ab initio.

TRS3: That is hardly a good trait in a moderator!  

jc: Moderator? What reference does TRS have to this discovery?

TRS 4: One novelty at least that Augusto brings in his fast comments: (LMB) "ended his days in Portugal.". What is the reference to this historic discovery?

jc: Now Now.....TRS.....please read what Gusto has written. ALL he is stating is that "LMB ended his days in Portugal"......after the days ended, he came to Moira for the night !

ps: AFTER all the posts Augusto has censored, do I believe this one will go through?

jc

[Leroy Veloso]

Yeah Jose, I too suffered censoring on GBC.

No worry I too am Charlie Hebdo!

Regards,
leroy
Leroy Mario Veloso
Assistant Professor, Social Work.
Acting Programme Coordinator
P.G Dept. of Social Work

Don Bosco Institute for Post Graduate Studies and Research
Panaji, Goa - 403001
Mob. :- 9881333927/9768800666
Email:- leroy...@yahoo.com

“The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires.”------- William Arthur Ward

--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 2/8/15, Jose <col...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Bulk] [GOABOOKCLUB] Luis de Menezes Braganza: Natiionalism, Secularism, and Free-Thought in Portuguese Goa by Goa
To: "goa-bo...@googlegroups.com" <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com>

Date: Sunday, February 8, 2015, 7:30 AM

On Feb
7, 2015, at 5:18 AM, Teotonio R. de Souza (TRS)
wrote:
TRS 1: I am not impressed by Augusto's habit of
taking potshots at what in a book or posting irritates
him! jc: I am impressed by his
steadfastness in CENSORING responses to his Pot
Shots!
TRS 2: Is it
too late in life for Augusto to gain some patience, read a
whole book, digest the contents and do some supplementary
readings if required, before firing off

.....jc: Age is just

a number.....and BTW ....It was too late ab
initio.
TRS3: That is
hardly a good trait in a moderator!
 jc: Moderator?
What reference does TRS have to this
discovery?
TRS 4: One
novelty at least that Augusto brings in his fast comments:
(LMB) "ended his days in Portugal.". What is the
reference to this historic
discovery?jc:
Now Now.....TRS.....please read what Gusto has written. ALL
he is stating is that "LMB ended his days in
Portugal"......after the days ended, he came to Moira
for the night !
ps: AFTER
all the posts Augusto has censored, do I believe this one
will go through?
jc

[Teotonio R. de Souza]

Thalmann,

Your raising question about the reach of the writings of LMB in Portuguese during his times is very relevant. But that could not be applied to those of us writing in English in our days? Probably we have more readers, but even so in terms of population percentage which is also higher it must be negligible..

However, we need to take into account to role of the elite which always determines the administrative dictats and thereby affects all. Obviously, It is the elite rivalry in Goa, native and white (mestiço and metropolitan), that was resenting some of the writings and positions of LMB.

Teotonio

http://orcid.org/0000-0002-9397-1433

http://www.thegoan.net/Goa/Lets-Talk/The-idea-of-Goa-more-India-more-world-and-more-Goa/06979.html
		Teotonio R. de Souza about.me/teodesouza

tweets @ramkamat  

[sushila mendes]

Dear Mr.Antao, 

 The Gomantak that I have referred to  was a newspaper edited by Dr.Juliao Menezes from Assolna and for some time by my father Adv.Luis Mendes, from Velim.It was the organ of the Gomantal Praja Mandal, which came into being six months after the death of LMB in July 1938.It continued till about1946, or a year thereafter. This newspaper commemorated the death anniversary of LMB  on 10th July,every year by dedicating the front page of the paper to him and translated his views in Romi Konkani and English.Unfortunately the Central Library does not have a single copy of this newspaper.

 

 Mr.Thomas Aquinas,who wrote the booklet on "Cuncolim a historic village",introduced me to this paper as my dad had passed away when I was in middle school.

 

So I am not talking about the present day Gomantak .

 

I am happy that LMB's views are being read and discussed.

 

Regards,

Sushila Sawant Mendes.

 

 

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[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎]

Dear all: On the issue of 'censorship', please (i) stay on topic (ii) discuss books (and related ideas) rather than individuals. Your messages will definitely go through.

I'd personally like to avoid converting the Goa Book Club into a forum for targeting one another. FN

[sushila mendes]

Dear Augusto,

You have read my book in a hurry and misunderstood and misquoted me.I quote what you wrote:

 

"For instance she mentions in a chapter devoted to the family
tree of the Menezes Braganza, that F X Braganza (LMB's
grandfather married a woman from 'a caste that was
different from his"

 

On page 66,my sentence reads as

His family opposed his choice of a bride from a caste that was different from his.Disappointed in love,he wanted to join the order of the Carmelites in the monastery of Chimbel.

 

Does this mean that he married the said woman?

 

 

Again I quote your sentence on your guess work about the wife of LMB's granfather F.X.Braganca:

 

" Now what are we to make of that for
to marry a Bamon would be one thing and to marry a Gawda
something else. So ultimately one concludes that she was a

Sudra."

 

On the next pg 67,I have named his wife:

Little is known of Maria Ascenca Margarida de Souza Braganca,wife of F.X.Braganca,except the fact that she came from the equally well-to-do family of the de Souzas of Calangute."

 

So Augusto,I do appreciate your interest in my book but if the table that you welcomed me, to place the views of LMB, is an evenly levelled one,then in all fairness you owe me an apology.

 

Best wishes,

Sushila Sawant Mendes

not

Sushila Mendes Almeida Coutinho.

 

P.N.Ofcourse, I am married to Cleofato Almeida Coutinho. We have two children aged 23 and 21 years.However I have decided to retain my maiden surname. My husband has absolutely no objection,.Augusto you must respect my decision of not using my husband's surname and accept my word as the last word on this subject as it has nothing to do with the contents of my book.

[Ben Antao]

Dear Sushila

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

BTW, I used to know both Dr Juliao Menezes and your father Luis Mendes in Bombay in the 60s.

Nice to make your acquaintance on the Internet.

 

All the best

 

Ben

[Jose Colaco]

[possibly off-topic]

On 8 February 2015 at 14:51, 'sushila mendes' wrote:"P.N.Ofcourse, I am married to Cleofato Almeida Coutinho."

Comment: I was around (on several occasions) when Cleofato was discussing topics - while I was probably enjoying a cup of tea. My view of Cleofato has been that he is a smart, articulate and thoughtful individual. Now that I know that he and Sushila are a team, my appreciation for Cleofato has gone up several notches.

Only strong, confident and smart individuals choose similar individuals as their life-mates.

Keep writing Sushila....

jc

[augusto pinto]

Dear Thalmann,

While Sushila takes her time get round to answering your questions , please bear with my views for the time being.

 

it seems your thrust is to determine how effective LMB was as a mass leader. And the answer appears to be not very much. He was an intellectual who was trying to persuade the Goan elite of his time as to the folly of their views.

 

Unfortunately for him, the elite included the Church, and forget about then, even now it does not deign fit to answer questions raised about its conduct. (the Gawda protests against the aggressive Church meddling in their practices is a case in point) And why should they: they are appointed by God is it not, and only to God are they responsible is it not?

 

But in LMB's time they would obviously  use the power of the pulpit and combine it with their friends in the State to see that his ideas did not quite acquire any popular base. This was among the Christians; as regards the Hindu masses he would be even more alienated. In a way his plight is similar to that of the Left parties in Goa today.

Having said that we should acknowledge him as a secular icon and he certainly has much more claim to being celebrated than for instance Sant Ambiye whose emergence from the ashes is absolutely fascinating.

Maybe the next Govt. College will be named after him.

Cheers

Augusto

[Selma C]

Dear Augusto,

Using the power of the pulpit is correct. In my biographical notes on Armando Menezes and George Menezes in the book, The Naked Liberal, I have written how Armando was penalised in Bombay by the Church, upon LMB's death when Armando spoke to defend him posthumously. Armando's long estrangement from the Church began with this event. I have taken this information from Armando's own unpublished biography.

Best wishes,

Selma

Sent from my iPad

[augusto pinto]

Dear Selma

That's quite interesting. I'm not surprised by the treatment doled out to Armando M. How dare he challenge the diktats of the C which is mandated by God.

Tell me why Armando's autobiography was unpublished. I feel it was because prudence was deemed better than valor by the Menezes family

Regarding which I hope I am proved wrong 
Augusto.

[Eugene Correia]

In the context of autobiographical books, I wish to know if Prof. Aloysius Soares EVER published a second volume of his, Down the Corridors of Time.  I believe he was working or finished the second volume. Those who have done research or doing now on Goa's freedom struggle may know of his first book and could possibly know if the second one came out.

Eugene Correia

[Selma C]

Augusto,

This may come as a surprise but books don't materialise just like that. They take years of effort. Several years of research and than a minimum of one to two years on the editorial desk. There are many reasons a good many biographies of Goans have never been published. There is no 'hidden' motive. There are just pragmatic reasons chief among which is finding an editor/ghost writer to work on them. Then, there is the issue of many figures of recognition having left it till too late as a result of which the moment has past and both the publishing world and the public are no longer aware or interested in them. The advent of self-publishing has helped the biography/memoir genre a lot. 

It is because their experiences are fundamental to our understanding of social and political milieus, that I have been urging people to archive whatever diaries, letters, journals they have in a public institution but seeing the way Pai Augustino's brilliant original scripts have been left to rot at the Konkani academy perhaps they are safer in private vaults. By the way Augusto, it was you who accused me of being alarmist when I brought up the issue of Pai Augustino's manuscripts but where are they now? Still food for white ants at the academy?

Best wishes,

Selma

Sent from my iPad

[augusto pinto]

Dear Selma

On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 3:25 PM, 'Selma C' via The Goa Book Club <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Augusto,

This may come as a surprise but books don't materialise just like that.

 

 

Selma, I'm not just surprised but absolutely astounded, bewidered, confounded, dumbfounded, exhiliarated and flabbergasted by this revelation. It blows me away if not off.

I have been urging people to archive whatever diaries, letters, journals they have in a public institution but seeing the way Pai Augustino's brilliant original scripts have been left to rot at the Konkani academy perhaps they are safer in private vaults. By the way Augusto, it was you who accused me of being alarmist when I brought up the issue of Pai Augustino's manuscripts but where are they now? Still food for white ants at the academy?

Did I accuse you of being an alarmist Selma? Never in my wildest dreams would I accuse you of being an alarmist. Maybe a pessimist, a scaremonger, a voice of doom, a Cassandra - but an alarmist - NEVER!

Anyway going over that old thread I found a ditty written by Jeanne Hromnik that goes: 

Unfortunately, everything depends on "someone" ... 

Someone who may stall matters

Someone who might digitalise manuscripts

Someone who might store them

Someone who might brief the legislative assembly

Someone in the assembly who might respond to matters related to culture

 ... someday.

(Xanni)

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/goa-book-club/DbZYgrLv8Bs

Reading that this is 2 + years agof I've decided to go and find out what happened ultimately if anything did happen at all. Hopefully I'll have something to report soon. 

Cheers

Augusto

[Braz MENEZES]

Thank FN for a very timely message. Regards.

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 8, 2015, at 14:11, Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا <frederic...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear all: On the issue of 'censorship', please (i) stay on topic (ii) discuss books (and related ideas) rather than individuals. Your messages will definitely go through.

I'd personally like to avoid converting the Goa Book Club into a forum for targeting one another. FN

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[sandra lobo]

Dear Eugene,
 
The second volume was also published. There is a copy at Central Library:

SOARES, Aloysius
Down the corridors of time : recollections and reflexions (1948-1970) / Aloysius Soares. - Bombay : Dr. A. A. Soares, 1973. - 2 v. : il. ; 22 cm
Cota: GA64880|CLP Goa
 
Sandra
 

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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2015 13:06:14 +0400
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [GOABOOKCLUB] Luis de Menezes Braganza: Natiionalism, Secularism, and Free-Thought in Portuguese Goa by Goa
From: eugene....@gmail.com
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

[Eugene Correia]

Dear Sandra,

If I knew Central Library has it, I would have checked it out. I wish the Goa-based publishers reprints both volumes, though copyright could be problem. I wish either Leonard or Fred could explore the possibility. If interested, they would have to trace a family member to check talk about copyright.
 I knew Aloysius' son, Joe, but after retirement, I believe, he moved to Bangalore. Anyone on this list whose based in Bangalore can find it out.

In fact, one of relative (not sure if he was his nephew) put me in touch with Joe, as the book was not of print. He had just one of the volumes. SInce I don't have the book with me right now, I don't know if it was Vol. I or II.

Similarly, George Menezes or new members of the family can look into publishing Armando's autobiography. It would be nice to read an account of his life as he is still very much relevant to the present generation.

Surprised VM hasn't said a word on this. Hope he takes the initiative and gets it published before some of us pass into history.

Eugene

[sushila mendes]

Greetings,

Thalmann,

 You have raised good questions and a good number of them too.

  I assure you that I will deal with each one of them in the course of time.

1.Whether LMB addressed public meetings?

 

1.LMB had addressed a  meeting in the Municipal Hall,IIhas to protest against the suspension of the Carta Organica.He also presided over this meeting. 

He also addressed another public meeting on 1st December 1918,in Margao under the Presidentship of Vincent Caetano Barbosa. Here the decision was taken to boycott the polls (Please read the chapter 8 on Political Activism,pp 244-247).

 

2.When,where an Why did T.B.Cunha decide to write in English?

2.T.B.Cunha,also wrote in Konkani,besides English,though he was very proficient in French. He was a regular contributor to the French newspapers Clarte and L'Humanite during his stay in France.On his return to India on Sept 4,1953,after his imprisonement in Portugal,he plunged into the freedom struggle as Chairman of the Goa Action Committe and it is during this period that he wrote for,'Azad Goem',an associate paper of 'Free Goa'.He was the editor of this paper till he passed away on 26th Sept,1958.There are some issues after this date continued  by the daughter of LMB,Bertha Menezes Braganca and her husband.I had referred to these issues in the Central library.

 

3.I have stated that the views of LMB did not filter down from the classes to the masses,as he wrote only in the Portuguese language.However,as rightly stated by Dr.Teotonio, the elite had their own role to play in the governance of the land.

 Please understand that during that period the medium of instruction,though imposed was  in Portuguese and therefore both hindus  and Christians could understand this language, sufficient enough to read his papers.The Pracasha was read more after it was  banned by the Church.

The Gomantak,organ of the Gomantak Praja Mandal,translated his views in Romi Konkani and English quite regularly.I have in my book poems composed on LMB and also one by Dr.Armando Menezes on him.He did provide therefore the ideological moorings for the struggle that followed his  death in 1938. 

Will continue on this subject ..........

Thanks for reading my book.

Sushila

[sandra lobo]

Dear Eugene,
 
Actually I have only read the first volume. I intend to read the second when I go to Goa in April. I am actually very interestwouled in Aloysius Soares and would love to get in contact. As for Armando's autobiography of course it would be important to have it published. Yet, I am very interested in know his writings better. I did not know that Vivek was his relative.
 
Best regards,
 
Sandra

 

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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2015 21:10:58 +0400

[Eugene Correia]

Dear Sandra,

The books that Augusto has mentioned contain are the best of Armando's writings. Perhaps, the old issues of Goan World, The Examiner and maybe even The Goan Tribune will have them.

George Menezes (I think he's a member of this forum) should provide details if there's more of his writings with him or one that has already been published. I assume that George gave a copy of his father's autobiography to Selma. If George is NOT keen to publish the book, then VM must make an effort. If I remember correctly, VM said that he was working on the family archive.

I don't know if the publication of Armando's views can create waves in the Goan or Catholic communities. Maybe, it will have create some murmurings, possible in the old generation. For new scholars the book can be source material of the days when the State-Church or Church vs reputed Goan individuals mattered.

George, as some of your know, was deeply involved in Church matters and was the president of the All-India Catholic Union. He was also on the Pontifical Council for the Laity. So, one must understand that where the father and son stood vis-a-vis the church.

If this is what holding George back from publishing the book, I am not sure. Perhaps, VM can give his take on it, since there's so much interest in the book. One thing I want to ask George if the manuscript will be made available to anyone who wants to do an article or some references to what is said in the book, as Selma did?

Eugene Correia

[Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎]

On 9 February 2015 at 22:40, Eugene Correia <eugene....@gmail.com> wrote:

If I knew Central Library has it, I would have checked it out. I wish the Goa-based publishers reprints both volumes, though copyright could be problem. I wish either Leonard or Fred could explore the possibility. If interested, they would have to trace a family member to check talk about copyright.

Dear Eugene, You are giving "Leonard or Fred" a whole lot of assignments and homework to do, by way of publishing books which your library needs on its shelves!

It's not that I'm not listening to your (or any) suggestions... but frankly my concern is more focussed on (i) making sure our books stay viable so we can stay afloat and hopefully keep publishing... by building the match between supply and potential demand (ii) getting mostly new work into the market (iii) taking on practical amounts of work so that despite our shoestring infrastructure we don't keep delaying our authors.

Trust you will appreciate my limitations. FN

PS: Of course these are big names and people who have contributed significantly to our debate and shaping our past and present, one way or the other. But if it's a question of getting a struggling and living first-time author's work out there and chasing an already-in-print title, you could guess where my priorities would mostly be. I think it's rather practical if the families of those whose books are out of print look at creating inexpensive ebooks. Assuming they want to make these writings widely accessible.

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