GNUstep store... also, thinking of starting a foundation/503(c) for GNUstep...

[Gregory Casamento]

https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep

I just started it.  All proceeds will go to an account opened in the project's name.

I would like to incorporate a GNUstep Foundation so that contributions can be made directly to the project.  To do this we need a legal entity.  I propose creating a 503(c) corporation for this purpose and all maintainers would be made officers of this non-profit.

GC

--

Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron

https://gf.me/u/x8m3sx - My GNUstep GoFundMe

https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep - Store

[H. Nikolaus Schaller]

> Am 17.08.2020 um 21:24 schrieb Gregory Casamento <greg.ca...@gmail.com>:
>
> https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep
>
> I just started it. All proceeds will go to an account opened in the project's name.

Nice.

And my first expectation was some GNUstep App Store :)

Maybe the following can be useful for a downloader/installer/updater tool independent of debian or other packages?

curl http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/plist.php

[lars.soncho...@hamburg.de]

We should put a link to this at the GNUstep homepage.

regards,

Lars

Am 17.08.2020 um 21:24 schrieb Gregory Casamento <greg.ca...@gmail.com>:

https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep

I just started it.  All proceeds will go to an account opened in the project's name.

[Svetlana Tkachenko]

Also sell computers with GNUStep pre-installed?

[Gregory Casamento]

I would love to start a company to do that.

On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 6:56 PM Svetlana Tkachenko <svet...@members.fsf.org> wrote:

Also sell computers with GNUStep pre-installed?

[Svetlana Tkachenko]

What OS is the bst equipped to run GNUstep on it with minimal confusion to the novice user?

What hardware does this OS run on?

Who would do the installs on new hardware and be the base shipping point(s)?

[Umberto Cerrato]

Hi,

Can the store be incorporated into the GNUstep website/hosting platform? I would like it. Instead of visiting another website address.

Inviato da iPhone

Il giorno 17 ago 2020, alle ore 21:24, Gregory Casamento <greg.ca...@gmail.com> ha scritto:



https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep

I just started it.  All proceeds will go to an account opened in the project's name.

I would like to incorporate a GNUstep Foundation so that contributions can be made directly to the project.  To do this we need a legal entity.  I propose creating a 503(c) corporation for this purpose and all maintainers would be made officers of this non-profit.

GC

--

Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron

https://gf.me/u/x8m3sx - My GNUstep GoFundMe

https://teespring.com/stores/gnustep - Store

[David Chisnall]

On 18/08/2020 02:19, Svetlana Tkachenko wrote:
> What OS is the bst equipped to run GNUstep on it with minimal confusion to the novice user?

FreeBSD. Ships with an Objective-C compiler and a C++ stack that
interoperates well with Objective-C in Objective-C++. Doesn't require
jumping through hoops to handle conflicts between system packages that
want to bring in ancient versions of Objective-C things.

> What hardware does this OS run on?

Most x86 things, WiFi card compatibility can be a bit hit-and-miss.

> Who would do the installs on new hardware and be the base shipping point(s)?

Not me.

David

[Svetlana Tkachenko]

Hi David,

On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:17:34 +0100
David Chisnall <gnu...@theravensnest.org> wrote:
> On 18/08/2020 02:19, Svetlana Tkachenko wrote:
> > What OS is the bst equipped to run GNUstep on it with minimal confusion to the novice user?
>
> FreeBSD. Ships with an Objective-C compiler and a C++ stack that
> interoperates well with Objective-C in Objective-C++. Doesn't require
> jumping through hoops to handle conflicts between system packages that
> want to bring in ancient versions of Objective-C things.

Okay, thank you. And does someone know what apps users will need?
If they are missing, a (yearly?) "app development contest" could be of utility?

> > What hardware does this OS run on?
>
> Most x86 things, WiFi card compatibility can be a bit hit-and-miss.

The shop organizer could buy FreeBSD-friendly hardware
and re-sell it with GNUstep pre-installed.
What hardware would that be?

Regards,
Svetlana

[Riccardo Mottola]

Hi Svetlana,

You hijacked a thread :)

Svetlana Tkachenko wrote:
> What OS is the bst equipped to run GNUstep on it with minimal confusion to the novice user?
>

> What hardware does this OS run on?
>

> Who would do the installs on new hardware and be the base shipping point(s)?

I think you need to better specify "run". If by run you mean just "get
the binary stuff that is ready for it" or "compile from source and get
everything I like and run it" the answers are a bit different. I would
not advise mixing the two things generally speaking and without knowing
configuration details (although compiling an app and isntalling it
should always be easy and possible)

1) "run what is ready" : you depend from what is ready in the packages
of that particular OS - if they miss something - and how they configured
it. However, as an end-user you don't really care what compiler,
depenedncy, runtime was used.
I would advise thus installation which are complete, functional and
maintained. I would not advice Debian and derivatives (ubuntu,
raspbian...) because of the way package things. FHS  does not give you
the best GNUstep experience, but it is passable anyway to play around.
- FreeBSD has among the best ready packages, is well maintained, runs
well on i386 and amd64
- OpenBSD and NetBSD have also excellent packages, but the OS may need a
little bit more experience to be used (although I find them excellent)
- Gentoo Linux is also quite nice

As hardware, everything the aforementioned supports - i386 and amd64
being the choice though.

2) "compile myself" - here the world opens again, you can configure and
install.
At this point, Debian-derived distributions are no longer an issue.
Actually Debian and Raspbian/Raspberry OS (Ubuntu, Fienix...) are very
easy to work with, maintain and install. Installing dependencies for
GNUstep is a breeze and configuring with either GCC or Clang/libobjc2
becomes fast
At this point, much more hardware opens to you: not just i386 and amd64,
but also PowerPC works perfectly and arm! So tinkering you your
Raspberry 1,2,3,4 becomes a wonderful playground for GNUstep.
NetBSD is also perfect and gets you running on SPARC, HP-PARISC,
SPARC64... and GNUstep runs on it
FreeBSD here is a little bit more tricky because of compiler/runtime
issues and I always get a headache with libobj2 and GCC is not usable
with objc-2. So a caveat here.

Riccardo

[Svetlana Tkachenko]

Hi Riccardo,

Thank you for your thoughtful and elaborate response. A few uneducated questions...

Riccardo wrote:
> Hi Svetlana,
>
> You hijacked a thread :)
>
>
> Svetlana wrote:
> > What OS is the bst equipped to run GNUstep on it with minimal confusion to the novice user?
> >
> > What hardware does this OS run on?
> >
> > Who would do the installs on new hardware and be the base shipping point(s)?
>
> I think you need to better specify "run". If by run you mean just "get
> the binary stuff that is ready for it" or "compile from source and get
> everything I like and run it" the answers are a bit different. I would
> not advise mixing the two things generally speaking and without knowing
> configuration details (although compiling an app and isntalling it
> should always be easy and possible)

These correspond to customers who
* shops at ebay and just wants a working computer
* wants to create things and maybe knows a bit of C,
(and also perhaps test their mac apps in GNUstep)
Is this correct?

Perhaps it would be interesting to have devices for both?

Riccardo wrote:
> 1) "run what is ready" : you depend from what is ready in the packages
> of that particular OS - if they miss something - and how they configured
> it. However, as an end-user you don't really care what compiler,
> depenedncy, runtime was used.
> I would advise thus installation which are complete, functional and
> maintained. I would not advice Debian and derivatives (ubuntu,
> raspbian...) because of the way package things. FHS  does not give you
> the best GNUstep experience, but it is passable anyway to play around.
> - FreeBSD has among the best ready packages, is well maintained, runs
> well on i386 and amd64
> - OpenBSD and NetBSD have also excellent packages, but the OS may need a
> little bit more experience to be used (although I find them excellent)
> - Gentoo Linux is also quite nice
>
> As hardware, everything the aforementioned supports - i386 and amd64
> being the choice though.

What would make such a device attractive for the customer who "shops at ebay and just wants a working computer"?

Also I imagine a million of usability issues with configuring wireless and other tasks for which an app is missing.

Riccardo wrote:
> 2) "compile myself" - here the world opens again, you can configure and
> install.
> At this point, Debian-derived distributions are no longer an issue.
> Actually Debian and Raspbian/Raspberry OS (Ubuntu, Fienix...) are very
> easy to work with, maintain and install. Installing dependencies for
> GNUstep is a breeze and configuring with either GCC or Clang/libobjc2
> becomes fast
> At this point, much more hardware opens to you: not just i386 and amd64,
> but also PowerPC works perfectly and arm! So tinkering you your
> Raspberry 1,2,3,4 becomes a wonderful playground for GNUstep.
> NetBSD is also perfect and gets you running on SPARC, HP-PARISC,
> SPARC64... and GNUstep runs on it
> FreeBSD here is a little bit more tricky because of compiler/runtime
> issues and I always get a headache with libobj2 and GCC is not usable
> with objc-2. So a caveat here.

Bit puzzled here.

If the customer "wants to create things and maybe knows a bit of C" then perhaps they will find it cheaper to just buy such a device and install GNUstep on it themselves. No?

There will be economical benefit here only if someone buys 1000 devices in bulk for cheap, and gains profit from selling each one of them separately for a higher price. Does someone know of such a case?

Regards,
Svetlana