[VM] Beginner VM questions

[Peter Davis]

I used VM with POP3 a number of years ago, but now I'm trying to use it with IMAP, and have forgotten so much that I'm essentially a beginner again. So my apologies for using GMail for this.

1) How can I send messages? I've tried 'm' and M-x vm-mail, but I just get the error: Symbol's function is void: vm-select-recipient-from-sender

2) I have a slew of IMAP folders. Is there a way to set VM up to automatically check for new mail in all folders? A way to jump from folder to folder with unread mail? Should they all go in the vm-imap-server-list, even though they're on the same server?

3) Can I go from IMAP folder to IMAP folder without leaving a trail of open Summary and Presentation buffers?

Thanks!

-pd

--
----

The Tech Curmudgeon

http://www.techcurmudgeon.com

[Uday Reddy]

Peter Davis writes:

> I used VM with POP3 a number of years ago, but now I'm trying to use it with
> IMAP, and have forgotten so much that I'm essentially a beginner again. So my
> apologies for using GMail for this.

That is perfectly fine. It is good to have some "beginners" so that we know
what problems they encounter.

> 1) How can I send messages? I've tried 'm' and M-x vm-mail, but I just get the
> error: Symbol's function is void: vm-select-recipient-from-sender

I think something went wrong in the packaging of the beta release you are
using. If you do `r' for some message then the library gets loaded, and
then you can kill that dummy reply buffer and continue.

> 2) I have a slew of IMAP folders. Is there a way to set VM up to automatically
> check for new mail in all folders? A way to jump from folder to folder with
> unread mail? Should they all go in the vm-imap-server-list, even though
> they're on the same server?

If you do `vm-list-imap-folders', you get a list of all the IMAP folders on
the server along with an indication of the new messages waiting in them.

Managing a whole bunch of folders conveniently is still on the To-do list.
What I do is to define an alias:

(defalias 'imap 'vm-visit-imap-folder)

and then do `M-x imap' to go to a different folder.

> 3) Can I go from IMAP folder to IMAP folder without leaving a trail of open
> Summary and Presentation buffers?

There isn't anything built-in to do that. But it is easy enough to define a
function for yourself, something along the lines of:

(defun switch ()
(interactive)
(call-interactively 'vm-quit t)
(call-interactively 'vm-visit-imap-folder t))

It is necessary to quit the previous folder first. Otherwise, whatever
changes you have made to the folder won't be written to the server. This is
along the general Emacs principle of working with buffers separately from
files, in a non-synchronous way. (I know, the world is going the way of
'Google Docs' where everything gets written to the server instantaneously.
We believe in the server being in a 'fire safe'. You have to open and close
the safe every time. Otherwise it is liable to go up in a fire some day!
Metaphorically speaking of course.)

Cheers,
Uday

[Peter Davis]

I'm sorry this if this is a duplicate. I tried to respond earlier from
VM, but as far as I can tell, the message was never sent.

At Wed, 19 Sep 2012 06:33:59 +0100,
Uday Reddy wrote:

>
> Peter Davis writes:
>
> > 1) How can I send messages? I've tried 'm' and M-x vm-mail, but I just get the
> > error: Symbol's function is void: vm-select-recipient-from-sender
>
> I think something went wrong in the packaging of the beta release you are
> using. If you do `r' for some message then the library gets loaded, and
> then you can kill that dummy reply buffer and continue.

Ok. Thanks!

>
> > 3) Can I go from IMAP folder to IMAP folder without leaving a trail of open
> > Summary and Presentation buffers?
>
> There isn't anything built-in to do that. But it is easy enough to define a
> function for yourself, something along the lines of:
>
> (defun switch ()
> (interactive)
> (call-interactively 'vm-quit t)
> (call-interactively 'vm-visit-imap-folder t))

Thanks. This seems very useful. Maybe I can find a way to tie it to the
vm-list-imap-folders function so it will automatically go to the next
folder with unread messages.

>
> It is necessary to quit the previous folder first. Otherwise, whatever
> changes you have made to the folder won't be written to the server. This is
> along the general Emacs principle of working with buffers separately from
> files, in a non-synchronous way. (I know, the world is going the way of
> 'Google Docs' where everything gets written to the server instantaneously.
> We believe in the server being in a 'fire safe'. You have to open and close
> the safe every time. Otherwise it is liable to go up in a fire some day!
> Metaphorically speaking of course.)

I have no objection to the off-line editing model. It would be nice to
be able to close one folder and open another within a single IMAP
connection, but that's just an optimization.

Sounds like you are doing most of the heavy lifting on VM yourself,
Uday. If I ever learn enough VM (and enough Lisp), I'll try to help out.

Thanks!

-pd

[Peter Davis]

Ok, on a totally different tack, I currently have mutt setup so I can

1) Fetch my mail from a few different accounts on various POP3 servers, 

2) Store it in Maildir format, and

3) Read it with mutt

Can I do this with VM? I've found some sites that reference using Maildir as a spool, but I want to use the POP3 servers as the spool, and store it locally in Maildir format.  (I think the last time I used VM, about 10 years ago or more, I was storing in MH format.)

If there any examples of how to set this up in my .vm file, that would be a huge help.

Thank you.

-pd

[Peter Davis]

Ok, since this was met with stoney silence, and my searches for using VM
with Maildir haven't been too fruitful, how about MH format? I assume VM
still supports that, right?

I could convert my Maildir folders back to MH (as they were
originally). Then I'd be using VM to fetch new mail from POP3 servers
and add it to the MH repository, and of course to read, reply, forward,
etc.

Thanks,
-pd

P.S. - Apologies again for sending with mutt. My .vm is currently a
shambles as I tried getting Maildir working.


--
--------
Peter Davis
The Tech Curmudgeon - http://www.techcurmudgeon.com

[Uday Reddy]

Peter Davis writes:

> Ok, since this was met with stoney silence, and my searches for using VM
> with Maildir haven't been too fruitful, how about MH format? I assume VM
> still supports that, right?

Sorry, Peter. You are out luck. VM doesn't support either mailder or MH
format (yet). There is an on-going wishlist item, but I have no idea when
we will get to it.

The only support VM has for any maildir-like format is that it can define
virtual folders over directories. I presume it would look something like
this:

(setq vm-virtual-folder-alist
'(
;; start virtual folder definition
("virtual-folder-name"
(("/path/to/maildir1" "/path/to/maildir2")
(header "foo")
)
)
;; end of virtual folder definition
;; more virtual folders if needed
)
)

If this set-up works, you will be able to at least read the maildir
folders. I don't think you will be able to operate on them.

If you want full inter-operability with your Mutt set-up, I think it won't
be possible.

> I could convert my Maildir folders back to MH (as they were
> originally). Then I'd be using VM to fetch new mail from POP3 servers
> and add it to the MH repository, and of course to read, reply, forward,
> etc.

If you are commiting to using VM, then your best bet is to keep VM folders
in its native mbox format, and work with Mutt and VM in parallel for a
while. Once you are sure you are comfortable with VM, you can convert
maildir/MH folders to mbox folders. I think MH has a way of doing it.

There is no problem with accessing POP3 servers from VM, or downloading mail
from them into VM folders.

Cheers,
Uday

[Uday Reddy]

Peter Davis writes:

> I have no objection to the off-line editing model. It would be nice to
> be able to close one folder and open another within a single IMAP
> connection, but that's just an optimization.

VM actually maintains a separate IMAP connection for each IMAP folder. So,
there won't be any optimization which ever way you do it. (Actually,
opening IMAP connections is not expensive at all. If the server doesn't
like too many connections, it will close them, and VM will open new ones
whenever it needs to.)

> Sounds like you are doing most of the heavy lifting on VM yourself,
> Uday. If I ever learn enough VM (and enough Lisp), I'll try to help out.

I look forward to it! I quite enjoy maintaining VM, but my time is
limited. If there were more of us, we could do more.

Cheers,
Uday

[Peter Davis]

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 05:26:17PM +0100, Uday Reddy wrote:
> Peter Davis writes:
>
> > Ok, since this was met with stoney silence, and my searches for using VM
> > with Maildir haven't been too fruitful, how about MH format? I assume VM
> > still supports that, right?
>
> Sorry, Peter. You are out luck. VM doesn't support either mailder or MH
> format (yet). There is an on-going wishlist item, but I have no idea when
> we will get to it.

Thanks, Uday. I was pretty sure I was using VM with MH-format folders
about 10 or 11 years ago, but that was probably a whole different
incarnation of VM.

>
> If you are commiting to using VM, then your best bet is to keep VM folders
> in its native mbox format, and work with Mutt and VM in parallel for a
> while. Once you are sure you are comfortable with VM, you can convert
> maildir/MH folders to mbox folders. I think MH has a way of doing it.
>
> There is no problem with accessing POP3 servers from VM, or downloading mail
> from them into VM folders.

I was going to try a few different MUAs in parallel, to see the
benefits and shortcomings of each. I suppose I could setup VM to fetch
POP3 messages without deleting them from the server, right? Then I
could have separate mbox and Maildir archives for a while.

Thank you!

-pd

[Julian Bradfield]

On 2012-09-20, Uday Reddy <usr.vm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you are commiting to using VM, then your best bet is to keep VM folders
> in its native mbox format, and work with Mutt and VM in parallel for a

Urgh. mbox format is totally sick. From-stuffing will screw you
whatever you do. mbox format is the most evil Unix legacy not yet
exterminated.
I recommend mmdf format. (Not ideal, but I've never yet had cause to
send a mail including the mmdf delimiter.)

[Uday Reddy]

Julian Bradfield writes:

> Urgh. mbox format is totally sick. From-stuffing will screw you
> whatever you do. mbox format is the most evil Unix legacy not yet
> exterminated.
> I recommend mmdf format. (Not ideal, but I've never yet had cause to
> send a mail including the mmdf delimiter.)

Hi Julian, VM doesn't do any From-stuffing. Some other Unix tools do. So,
as long as VM is fetching mail from POP3 servers and putting it in own mbox,
there are no problems.

Cheers,
Uday

[Julian Bradfield]

>Hi Julian, VM doesn't do any From-stuffing. Some other Unix tools do. So,
>as long as VM is fetching mail from POP3 servers and putting it in own mbox,
>there are no problems.

If it doesn't From-stuff, how does it handle messages that might
contain text such as

>From a load of junk 42
Subject: this isn't really a message

nor is this the body

[Uday Reddy]

Julian Bradfield writes:

> If it doesn't From-stuff, how does it handle messages that might
> contain text such as
>
> >From a load of junk 42
> Subject: this isn't really a message

Ok, you caught it there. I thought it had a robust system of message
separators, but I guess you can still defeat it.

I will put some documentation in the manual so that we know when it munges
From's.

Cheers,
Uday

[Peter Davis]

Julian Bradfield writes:
> On 2012-09-20, Uday Reddy <usr.vm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you are commiting to using VM, then your best bet is to keep VM folders
> > in its native mbox format, and work with Mutt and VM in parallel for a
>

> Urgh. mbox format is totally sick. From-stuffing will screw you
> whatever you do. mbox format is the most evil Unix legacy not yet
> exterminated.
> I recommend mmdf format. (Not ideal, but I've never yet had cause to
> send a mail including the mmdf delimiter.)
>

I'm not familiar with mmdf. Does VM support any file-per-message
formats? I'm only aware of Maildir and MH, but I thought there might be
a shot.

Thanks,
-pd


--

----
Peter Davis
The Tech Curmudgeon

www.techcurmudgeon.com

[Uday S Reddy]

Peter Davis writes:

> I'm not familiar with mmdf. Does VM support any file-per-message
> formats? I'm only aware of Maildir and MH, but I thought there might be
> a shot.

No, MMDF is also a bulk folder format. The only file-per-message support
that I know of is the virtual folder method I mentioned earlier.

Cheers,
Uday