gnus & nnmaildir

[Ken]

Well, below is my .gnus configuration. It still isn't working unless
there is something I need to so to "subscribe" to my mail?????

(message "[...setting up gnus]...")

(setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.gmane.org"))

(setq smtp-mail-server "kensu...@gmail.com")
(setq user-mail-address "kensu...@gmail.com")
(setq message-send-mail-real-function 'smtpmail-send-it)

(setq
gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnmaildir "mymailbox" (directory "~/Maildir/")))
)

(setq gnus-message-archive-group "nnmaildir+mymailbox:outbox")


Thanks,
Ken


--
You will be winged by an anti-aircraft battery.

[Glyn Millington]

Ken <kensu...@gmail.com> writes:

> Well, below is my .gnus configuration. It still isn't working unless
> there is something I need to so to "subscribe" to my mail?????

Well the config looks good to me (no expert).

Try this:

Start up Gnus - no sign of any nnmaildir groups - right?

Hit ^, that will take you into the server buffer- is nnmaildir listed
there?

Get the cursor over nnmaildir and hit enter.

There should be groups llisted - or maybe only one? Use 'u' to toggle
subscription to those groups - they should then show up when you open Gnus.



Good luck :-)



Glyn

[Álvar Ibeas]

I think that nnmaildir only loads maildir folders in your ~/Maildir
(like ~/Maildir/friends/cur). Neither the cur, new, tmp folders that may
exist in ~/Maildir, nor deeper folders (~/Maildir/old/2013). To access
those one has to create symlinks.

[Ken]

Well, I think I figured out something, but I don't know the solution.

GNUS sees a directory called queue under ~/Maildir/. However, procmail
sorts things into folders preceded by a ".", such as .emacs. These are
hidden folders of corse, so GNUS does not see them. Is there anyway
around this or do I need to revamp my entire process.

Thanks,
Ken

--
You will gain money by a speculation or lottery.

[Álvar Ibeas]

Ken <kensu...@gmail.com> writes:

> GNUS sees a directory called queue under ~/Maildir/. However, procmail
> sorts things into folders preceded by a ".", such as .emacs. These are
> hidden folders of corse, so GNUS does not see them. Is there anyway
> around this or do I need to revamp my entire process.

The Gnus info pages confirm that: "you need to create a directory
and populate it with maildirs or symlinks to maildirs [...] Any
filenames in the directory starting with `.' are ignored."

[lee]

Ken <kensu...@gmail.com> writes:

> Well, below is my .gnus configuration. It still isn't working unless
> there is something I need to so to "subscribe" to my mail?????
>

> (message "[...setting up gnus]...")
>
> (setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.gmane.org"))
>
> (setq smtp-mail-server "kensu...@gmail.com")
> (setq user-mail-address "kensu...@gmail.com")
> (setq message-send-mail-real-function 'smtpmail-send-it)
>
> (setq
> gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnmaildir "mymailbox" (directory "~/Maildir/")))
> )
>
> (setq gnus-message-archive-group "nnmaildir+mymailbox:outbox")

You may need/want to define mail sources.


(setq mail-sources ...)


Sorting ("splitting" as gnus calls it) incoming mail with procmail or
other MDAs or an exim-filter is somewhat contradictory to how gnus
works. Gnus knows, if defined, mail sources and fetches incoming mail
from there (regardless of what kind the source is), while, if set up,
splitting ("sorting") such mail into groups ("folders") so that procmail
etc. are no longer needed.

My recommendation is to use gnus' native nnml format rather than maildir
and set up some (fancy) mail splitting. Example for nnml:


(setq
gnus-select-method '(nnml "yun" (nnml-use-compressed-files ".bz2")
(nnml-compressed-files-size-threshold 65535)))


You could specify all your groups as mail sources (not recommended) or
just define a temporary maildir as one of the mail sources and use mutt
to push (copies of) the mails from the old maildir folder into the
temporary one after setting up appropriate splitting for gnus. Push
only one mail at first, check your splitting rules, adjust as needed,
then just push the rest of them and gnus will do the work for you ---
repeat for all your maildir folders.

You can, of course, stick to maildir and use it with gnus, which saves
you the conversion. I converted and am not looking back to mutt; gnus
is just too good :)

Keep good backups when starting with gnus. You may need to try out
stuff and want to be able to roll back. Doing a conversion greatly
helps with it because you can keep your existing mail storage intact.


--
GNU Emacs 24.4.50.2 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars)
of 2014-08-17 on yun.yagibdah.de

[Emanuel Berg]

> My recommendation is to use gnus' native nnml format
> rather than maildir and set up some (fancy) mail
> splitting. Example for nnml:
>
> (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml "yun"
> (nnml-use-compressed-files ".bz2")
> (nnml-compressed-files-size-threshold 65535)))

Yes, I can recommend nnml as well!

What I like about it is that it uses one file for each
mail, and those are put in your user filesystem in
directories that mimic the groups, so if you need to
apply shell tools (extract information that way) it is
all very clear how it works.

Splitting is a wonderful feature that makes mail as
sweet as news. Here is an example how it is done:

(setq nnmail-split-methods
'(
("zsh" "\\(^Cc\\|^\\(Resent-\\)?To\\):.*zsh-\\(workers\\|users\\)@zsh\.org.*")
("debian.user" "\\(^Cc\\|^\\(Resent-\\)?To\\):.*debian-user@lists\.debian\.org.*")
("cc" "\\(^Cc\\|^\\(Resent-\\)?To\\):.*\\(help-gnu-emacs@gnu\.org\\|info-gnus-english@gnu\.org\\).*")
("l4" "\\(^Cc\\|^\\(Resent-\\)?To\\):.*l4-hackers@os\.inf\.tu-dresden\.de.*")
("emacs-w3m" "^Subject:.*emacs-w3m.*")
("mail.misc" "") ))

To try out the regexps, when you see an article in
Gnus, hit `B q' and it says to where it will go. `B r'
will actually put it there, but this is automatized for
future mails, of course (that's the idea).

Splitting makes it possible to be on a lot of listbots
but always with the same mail; and the inbox doesn't
get flooded still, or it does, but organized and not in
your face unless told so.

And you can keep - what do they call it? "family?" -
such mails can have a distinct directory (or group) as
well.

> You can, of course, stick to maildir and use it with
> gnus, which saves you the conversion. I converted and
> am not looking back to mutt; gnus is just too good :)

Gnus is fantastic! It is just the best thing ever. I
thought Emacs was great, now I know its better than
that.

You can just dodge the backend completely and focus on
the client.

The only thing I don't like with Gnus is the way it
looks with the default options. I put a lot of work
into that. I know Gnus is 100% programmable, but first
impressions shouldn't be underestimated. For me, that
was just educational and fun to change. But I fear lots
of people won't be attracted to put that much time into
it. I have a small fan page for Gnus, with a couple
screenshots how I think it should look:

dump - http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/gnus/dumps/new/group.png
page - http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/gnus/index.html

Perhaps instead of saying this I should put together a
Gnus theme? Is that something that people do? I
crosspost this to gnu.emacs.gnus, this perhaps we can
discuss there, if anyone has ideas (though Gnus is
certainly not off-topic on gnu.emacs.help).

I know I have said this a couple of times but I just
love talk about how good Gnus is and what amazing stuff
can be done with it. Some people say they don't like
writing and reading mails - let me tell you, if I
couldn't type, and had to use Outlook, I would *detest*
mails! Tools, tools, tools... If you are in a
beautiful, cool garden with the best shovel in the
world, working on your digging skills, digging for ten
hours straight is paradise.

I don't know if I should bow because I am so grateful
to Linux, Emacs, Gnus, and Usenet, *or* if I should
pound myself on the chest for finding them, and nothing
short of making them a part of me! Just unbelievable
stuff.

--
underground experts united

[lee]

Emanuel Berg <embe...@student.uu.se> writes:

>> My recommendation is to use gnus' native nnml format
>> rather than maildir and set up some (fancy) mail
>> splitting. Example for nnml:
>>
>> (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml "yun"
>> (nnml-use-compressed-files ".bz2")
>> (nnml-compressed-files-size-threshold 65535)))
>
> Yes, I can recommend nnml as well!
>
> What I like about it is that it uses one file for each
> mail, and those are put in your user filesystem in
> directories that mimic the groups, so if you need to
> apply shell tools (extract information that way) it is
> all very clear how it works.

Having these groups is one of the big advantages over mutt. A big
disadvantage is that nnml is understood by gnus exclusively. In case
you want/need to be able to use different MUAs, maildir or imap work
much better for that.

There's also posting styles like:


(setq gnus-parameters
`(
("mail\\..*"
(gnus-show-threads nil)
(gnus-use-scoring nil)
(gnus-article-sort-functions '(gnus-article-sort-by-number))
(display . [not expire])
(gcc-self . "mail.sent")
(gnus-summary-line-format
":%U%R%z%I(%5k) %(%[%-23,23A%]%) %11&user-date; '%s\n")
)
;;
("mail\\.lists\\.emacs\\..*"
(posting-style
(organization "my virtual residence")
(signature (version))))
))

> Splitting is a wonderful feature that makes mail as
> sweet as news. Here is an example how it is done:
>
> (setq nnmail-split-methods

It didn't take long before I found out that I need nnmail-split-fancy
--- I don't remember why, though I'd recomment to look into fancy
splitting right away. Here's an excerpt:


(setq nnmail-split-methods 'nnmail-split-fancy)
;; order DOES matter
;; (| split split split ... GROUP)
;; (& split split split ... GROUP)
;; split = (HEADER REGEXP GROUP)
;; If the split is `nil', it is ignored.
(setq nnmail-split-fancy '(|
("List-Id"
"\\<help-gnu-emacs\\.gnu\\.org\\>"
"mail.lists.emacs.help")

("List-Id"
"\\<gnu-emacs-sources\\.gnu\\.org\\>"
"mail.lists.emacs.sources")

("List-Id"
"\\<beginners\\.perl\\.org\\>"
"mail.lists.perl.beginners")


;; mailing lists above

(any
".*undisclosed.recipient.*"
"mail.junk")

("Content-Type"
"text/html.*"
"mail.junk")

("Content-Type"
"multipart/alternative.*"
"mail.junk")

"mail.0-incoming"))


It takes quite a bit of getting used to and some trial and error to
figure it out. Once you get the hang of it it's easy. I guess it's
easier when you know elisp because things start to make sense; I learned
it only later.

> Splitting makes it possible to be on a lot of listbots
> but always with the same mail; and the inbox doesn't
> get flooded still, or it does, but organized and not in
> your face unless told so.

With mutt, I used an exim filter file. Gnus is rather slow with
splitting and sometimes with building a summary buffer --- compared to
mutt, which is really fast.

> And you can keep - what do they call it? "family?" -
> such mails can have a distinct directory (or group) as
> well.

Like I have "mail.per.<some person>" ...

>> You can, of course, stick to maildir and use it with
>> gnus, which saves you the conversion. I converted and
>> am not looking back to mutt; gnus is just too good :)
>
> Gnus is fantastic! It is just the best thing ever. I
> thought Emacs was great, now I know its better than
> that.
>
> You can just dodge the backend completely and focus on
> the client.

And you can read pretty much everything you want as mail ... With mutt,
I was using emacs as editor anyway. Over the years, I kept looking from
time to time if there's anything better. There never was until I tried
gnus.

> The only thing I don't like with Gnus is the way it
> looks with the default options. I put a lot of work
> into that. I know Gnus is 100% programmable, but first
> impressions shouldn't be underestimated. For me, that
> was just educational and fun to change. But I fear lots
> of people won't be attracted to put that much time into
> it. I have a small fan page for Gnus, with a couple
> screenshots how I think it should look:
>
> dump - http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/gnus/dumps/new/group.png
> page - http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/gnus/index.html

Which font do you use? It looks good on the screenshots.

> Perhaps instead of saying this I should put together a
> Gnus theme? Is that something that people do?

Hm, I didn't make a theme. I'm using no window decorations for emacs
frames and green on black with the Source Code Pro font.

> I crosspost this to gnu.emacs.gnus, this perhaps we can discuss there,
> if anyone has ideas (though Gnus is certainly not off-topic on
> gnu.emacs.help).

Or ding.gnus.org? gnu.emacs.gnus doesn't look like a mailing list but
like an uncategorized forum, and there's no way to subscribe?

Perhaps we should put things on a gnus wiki, or make a category/pages
for gnus on the emacs wiki?

> [...]

> Some people say they don't like writing and reading mails - let me
> tell you, if I couldn't type, and had to use Outlook, I would *detest*
> mails!

Emails are the most important and most convenient way of communication
to me. Outlook is unsuited to deal with more than perhaps a handful of
emails per day, if that. Besides, there isn't any really good MUA for
windoze.

> Tools, tools, tools... If you are in a beautiful, cool garden
> with the best shovel in the world, working on your digging skills,
> digging for ten hours straight is paradise.

Only if you love to dig.

> I don't know if I should bow because I am so grateful
> to Linux, Emacs, Gnus, and Usenet, *or* if I should
> pound myself on the chest for finding them, and nothing
> short of making them a part of me! Just unbelievable
> stuff.

You can always make contributions. The problem is that usually no one
really cares.

[Emanuel Berg]

lee <l...@yun.yagibdah.de> writes:

> Having these groups is one of the big advantages over
> mutt. A big disadvantage is that nnml is understood
> by gnus exclusively. In case you want/need to be able
> to use different MUAs, maildir or imap work much
> better for that.

Gnus is good, and it is complicated, so if you invest
time in understanding it to be helped by its power, I
don't think there is reason to switch. Even so the nnml
storage system is, well, as system. You could write a
script to crunch those files to setup a new system, of
coure.

> There's also posting styles

Yes, another useful feature though in my experience not
as indispensible as splitting.

> With mutt, I used an exim filter file. Gnus is rather
> slow with splitting and sometimes with building a
> summary buffer --- compared to mutt, which is really
> fast.

If you have a KILL file it can take a short time for
several hundreds or more messages. I'm OK with that as
I check the newsgroups and mail groups every day, so
there are seldom that many messages. But even when
there are it is fast, and besides it is a one-time
delay. Not as in the unresponsiveness of every
interactive command or the jitter of a bitstream -
those are much more frustrating.

> And you can read pretty much everything you want as
> mail ... With mutt, I was using emacs as editor
> anyway. Over the years, I kept looking from time to
> time if there's anything better. There never was
> until I tried gnus.

Did you save the message buffers as files and fed them
to mutt from the shell or did you automatize this
somehow from Emacs?

> Which font do you use? It looks good on the
> screenshots.

You bet. If you saw a font of the Linux console, it is
Terminus. In /etc/default/console-setup:

VERBOSE_OUTPUT="no"
ACTIVE_CONSOLES="/dev/tty[1-6]"
CHARMAP="UTF-8"
CODESET="Lat7"
FONTFACE="Terminus"
FONTSIZE="28x14"
SCREEN_WIDTH=72
SCREEN_HEIGHT=27

If you saw a font of X, in ~/.Xresources, I think it is

xterm*faceName: xft:bitstram vera sans mono:size=15:antialias=true

the reason I am unsure is that that dumps shows urxvt,
not xterm, but I take it the same fonts works for both,
and that I didn't change since switching from urxvt to
xterm.

> Or ding.gnus.org? gnu.emacs.gnus doesn't look like a
> mailing list but like an uncategorized forum, and
> there's no way to subscribe?

No, it is a newsgroup, just like gnu.emacs.help,
gnu.emacs.sources, alt.os.linux, etc. Maybe there is a
hybrid solution for that just as there is for
gnu.emacs.help (a listbot gate) but I don't know, it
makes less sense as most Gnus users should prefer
Usenet.

> Emails are the most important and most convenient way
> of communication to me.

No doubt.

> Outlook is unsuited to deal with more than perhaps a
> handful of emails per day, if that. Besides, there
> isn't any really good MUA for windoze.

I didn't use Outlook for ages but I don't think I'd
take to Thunderbird that much more. I want an all-text,
no GUI, mouse-free, in-Emacs client.

>> Tools, tools, tools... If you are in a beautiful,
>> cool garden with the best shovel in the world,
>> working on your digging skills, digging for ten
>> hours straight is paradise.
>
> Only if you love to dig.

No, that's the idea. If you love everything around an
activity - the setting, the tools - you start to love
the activity as well. At least I do.

>> I don't know if I should bow because I am so
>> grateful to Linux, Emacs, Gnus, and Usenet, *or* if
>> I should pound myself on the chest for finding them,
>> and nothing short of making them a part of me! Just
>> unbelievable stuff.
>
> You can always make contributions. The problem is
> that usually no one really cares.

I think people care, it is just that don't share my
taste, most often. Those who do, are usually themselves
capable (haha). So it seems there isn't that huge a
market for my skills. Or "skillz". Or M-A-N-N-Y :)

--
underground experts united

[Emanuel Berg]

Emanuel Berg <embe...@student.uu.se> writes:

>> Or ding.gnus.org? ...
>
> No, [gnu.emacs.gnus] is a newsgroup, just like

> gnu.emacs.help, gnu.emacs.sources, alt.os.linux, etc.
> Maybe there is a hybrid solution for that just as
> there is for gnu.emacs.help (a listbot gate) but I
> don't know, it makes less sense as most Gnus users
> should prefer Usenet.

On http://www.gnus.org/resources.html, it says:

About gnu.emacs.help:

* The gnu.emacs.gnus newsgroup is the appropriate
place to ask questions on usage of released
versions of Gnus.

About di...@gnus.org or gmane.emacs.gnus.general:

* Discussions about Gnus development takes place on
the ding mailing list. It's a mid-volume list
(10-30 messages per day) and is open for anyone
interested. To subscribe, send a message to
ding-r...@gnus.org to subscribe. The address of
the mailing list itself if di...@gnus.org.

* The ding mailing list is gatewayed to the
gmane.emacs.gnus.general newsgroup. The gateway is
bi-directional ­ everything mailed to the mailing
list will appear on the newsgroup, and all articles
posted to the newsgroup will appear on the mailing
list.

Man, I've been missing out on the action! Because
gnu.emacs.gnus has nowhere near "10-30 messages per
day". Problem is, I can't get access to
gmane.emacs.gnus.general on Aioe.org. But no worry,
I'll just join the mailing list and then split it to a
group and name that gmane.emacs.gnus.general -
brilliant!

--
underground experts united

[Joe Fineman]

Emanuel Berg <embe...@student.uu.se> writes:

> Emanuel Berg <embe...@student.uu.se> writes:

> On http://www.gnus.org/resources.html, it says:
>
> About gnu.emacs.help:
>
> * The gnu.emacs.gnus newsgroup is the appropriate
> place to ask questions on usage of released versions of Gnus.

I have recently made a couple of attempts to post a query on
gnu.emacs.gnus, but it seems my Gnus no longer can read it or post to
it.

FWIW, here is the query:

I use Gnus 5.13 under Emacs 24.3 under Cygwin 1.5.25 under Windows XP.

In my routines for reading email (at Verizon) when I do not want to
read newsgroups (at eternal-september), I have been calling
(gnus-no-server) without trouble until recently. Then (after weeding
out some old nnfolder+archive:sent. directories), I found that
(gnus-no-server) no longer allowed me to read mail. It brought up
Gnus and allowed me to send mail, but gave the usual no-news message
even when I in fact had mail. M-x gnus, however, brought up incoming
mail (as well as newsgroups), as usual.

On investigating with L in the *Group* buffer, I found that I had
somehow unsubscribed to nnml:mail.misc. Resubscribing to it restored
service under (gnus-no-server) once, but thereafter it failed again,
tho I was still subscribed.

What have I done wrong?
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: When confused, read the manual, which will give you a good :||
||: excuse. :||