is emacs in any linux base?

[Xah Lee]

So, on twitter, this tweet turned up today:

«_dumfries: Dear distros, please include emacs in base.»

and my reply:

«@_dumfries as long as GNU Emacs refuse to change keys to be
compatible on linux apps, it's hard.»

when i tried Ubuntu Linux last year, i found that emacs isn't part of
the normal install. But in fact, is in a package category that's
unsupported (called “universe”).
http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_on_ubuntu_linux.html

This is a motherfucking INSULT to the face.

Not in base install is inconvenience, but in a fucking unsupported
category. FSF GNU flagship software, categorized into fringe.

This is the Open Source situation. Very hard to swallow.

Emacs should be the default editor. But at the minimum, it should to
be in base package of linux distros.

But i can totally understand why linux distro refuse to do that. The
emacs fuckheads is too high up there to be compatible with the rest of
open source. As long as the copy/paste/undo keys isn't compatible with
the rest of linux, it's hard for linux to consider it as default
editor.

then we have a handful of oldbie emacs fuckheads, who insist their
habits over the hundreds of thousands of young generation.

but wait, why don't you use Microsoft Notepad? Emacs isn't notepad. If
you want, try Microsoft Word. The easier you make software, the dumber
people becomes (Knuth). Emacs was here first. Mouse isn't efficient.
I've been using emacs for 20 years, starting with PDF and TEKO
systems. I never had a problem with my hands. And you should swap
control and caps lock as the keys should be. If you want X C for copy
paste, you can do it easily, after all, we are talking about emacs!

Xah

[Thad Floryan]

Just installed a CentOS 6.2 (equivalent to RHEL 6.2 and Oracle's Linux),
selected "Software Development Workstation" as my mutually-exclusive
choice, and Emacs was installed.

[Jason Rumney]

On Friday, 23 March 2012 08:20:20 UTC+8, Xah Lee wrote:

> As long as the copy/paste/undo keys isn't compatible with
> the rest of linux, it's hard for linux to consider it as default
> editor.

Linux doesn't have copy, paste or undo. Applications that run on top of Linux may introduce their own copy, paste and undo functions, and in the base distribution of most GNU/Linux distributions, the default shell uses the same keybindings as Emacs by default. So no, keybindings are not the reason why Emacs is not in the base distribution.

[notbob]

On 2012-03-23, Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Emacs should be the default editor. But at the minimum, it should to
> be in base package of linux distros.

Slackware 13.37

/var/log/packages:
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 170314 Aug 25 2011 emacs-23.3-i486-1


nb

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[stan]

Xah Lee wrote:
>
> category. FSF GNU flagship software, categorized into fringe.

There are many people with many missions and agendas. As hard as it is
to believe, there are people who really don't like Stallman or his ideas.

I don't follow the popular dist of the month club and I've personally
got issues with Ubuntu and Cannonical so I have never used it for
longer than a few minutes. Philosophically I am closer to Stallman
than Shuttleworth.

Out of curiosity just what editors are offered out of the box?

> But i can totally understand why linux distro refuse to do that. The
> emacs fuckheads is too high up there to be compatible with the rest of
> open source. As long as the copy/paste/undo keys isn't compatible with
> the rest of linux, it's hard for linux to consider it as default
> editor.
>
> then we have a handful of oldbie emacs fuckheads, who insist their
> habits over the hundreds of thousands of young generation.

It's a wonder why your techniques aren't more persuasive.

[Chiron]

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:20:20 -0700, Xah Lee wrote:

> when i tried Ubuntu Linux last year, i found that emacs isn't part of
> the normal install. But in fact, is in a package category that's
> unsupported (called “universe”).

You are mistaken. I am using Ubuntu Linux, have emacs installed, and it
is supported by the Ubuntu maintainers. It's version 23.3, and the
maintainers are:

Ubuntu Core Developers <ubuntu-dev...@lists.ubuntu.com>

It is not under "Universe" it is under the distro's base.

So I don't know where you are getting this "motherfucking insult to the
face" from, but it appears that it is self-inflicted. You've got your
facts wrong, and are bitching about a non-issue.

Now, it is true that emacs wasn't installed by default. I had to install
emacs myself. That took about ten minutes, including downloading. Maybe
that doesn't meet with your exacting standards, but it's acceptable to me.

Ubuntu did install various other editors - the more lightweight ones, vi,
vim, nano, pico, and some others. Oh, and of course, sed. It also
installed Libreoffice, which is reasonable. Far more users are going to
need a word processor than an editor like emacs. Most users aren't
programmers. Those who *are* programmers are going to be able to figure
out how to install emacs (or else, they probably shouldn't be
programming).

You've spent considerable text trying to explain why emacs isn't included
in the base distro, and why it's unmaintained. Fortunately, you're
simply wrong about it. emacs *is* in the base Ubuntu distro, and it is
maintained by the Ubuntu folks.

--
He is the MELBA-BEING ... the ANGEL CAKE ... XEROX him ... XEROX him --

[Xah Lee]

On Mar 23, 7:23 pm, Chiron
<chiron613.no.sp...@no.spam.please.gmail.com>

>
> You've spent considerable text trying to explain why emacs isn't included
> in the base distro, and why it's unmaintained.  Fortunately, you're
> simply wrong about it.  emacs *is* in the base Ubuntu distro, and it is
> maintained by the Ubuntu folks.

i don't have linux box or up-to-date virtual box to conveniently
check. Last year it wasn't.

can you point to a official ubunto page that says emacs is in base?

am too lazy to check. Am doing reply here heading to bed. It's not
important.

Xah

[Richard Riley]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=emacs+ubuntu+package#

-->

http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/emacs

[Susan Cragin]

>> can you point to a official ubunto page that says emacs is in base?

You guys are so last-distro.
http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/emacs

And if you want emacs-snapshot and emacs-snapshot-gtk, add the ppa
https://launchpad.net/~cassou/+archive/emacs

[Chiron]

On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 02:37:23 -0700, Xah Lee wrote:

>
> i don't have linux box or up-to-date virtual box to conveniently check.
> Last year it wasn't.
>

Last year, it was. My distro is from last year.

> can you point to a official ubunto page that says emacs is in base?
>

No. I can point to my box.

> am too lazy to check. Am doing reply here heading to bed. It's not
> important.
>

Hmm... guess it's only important when you've got something to complain
about? OK, whatever.


--
Learn to pause -- or nothing worthwhile can catch up to you.

[Chiron]

On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 07:18:11 -0400, Susan Cragin wrote:

>>> can you point to a official ubunto page that says emacs is in base?
>
> You guys are so last-distro.
> http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/emacs
>

Well, yes... Xah was specifically talking about a distribution from last
year. So was I.


--
A kiss is a course of procedure, cunningly devised, for the mutual
stoppage of speech at a moment when words are superfluous.

[Ian Barton]

On 03/04/12 12:18, Susan Cragin wrote:
>>> can you point to a official ubunto page that says emacs is in base?
>
> You guys are so last-distro.
> http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/emacs
>

> And if you want emacs-snapshot and emacs-snapshot-gtk, add the ppa
> https://launchpad.net/~cassou/+archive/emacs
>
>
>
>

I think that emacs-snapshot is deprecated. I filed a bug some time ago
pointing out that the snapshot package was considerably older than the
one in the main distro. I seem to remember that emacs-snapshot was
removed from the main repos. I don't use Ubuntu as a desktop anymore, so
can't easily check.

Ian.

[Susan Cragin]

>> http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/emacs

>> And if you want emacs-snapshot and emacs-snapshot-gtk, add the ppa
>> https://launchpad.net/~cassou/+archive/emacs

>I think that emacs-snapshot is deprecated. I filed a bug some time ago pointing out that the snapshot package was considerably older than the one in the main distro. I seem to remember that emacs-snapshot was removed from the main repos. I don't use Ubuntu as a desktop anymore, so can't easily check.

Hi, Ian.
The last Ubuntu emacs-snapshot was built 6 days ago, and it is now kept up to date, and is also being worked on in Debian-unstable.
http://emacs.naquadah.org/
I did some searching a few days ago and some listserv claimed that "snapshot" is slightly different from the general EMACS and is not just an early snapshot of the general EMACS.