What is YOUR `meta' key?
Wendy Murdock
=============================
I wonder if you emacs people would take a moment to tell me about your meta key.
In particular, what key do you use on YOUR computer as the meta key?
I already know that many people use the <Esc> key, but I am wondering
what other keys are in use.
If you could please tell me what type of computer and keyboard you use and
what is your meta key I would appreciate it.
- Wendy Murdock
wmur...@rain.org
Jason F. McBrayer
I myself use <alt>; I'm using GNU Emacs 19.19 for OS/2.
The PC is a clonebox of some sort, the keyboard is a
generic 101-key (american) PC keyboard.
Jason F. McBrayer
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-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Launchpad is an experimental internet BBS. The views of its users do not
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Chris Brierley
[Snip]
JFM> I myself use <alt>; I'm using GNU Emacs 19.19 for OS/2. The
JFM> PC is a clonebox of some sort, the keyboard is a generic
JFM> 101-key (american) PC keyboard.
Me as well, running Linux on a PC clone. However, it's the *left* alt
key. The right one is not meta.
(Lars Lindberg)
My Meta-key is the black diamond, situated on both the left and right
side of the SPC-key. On the left side it is situated next to the
Alt-key. BTW, I've noticed that the alt-key is also a shift-key, just
like the Meta-key, but with prefix "A-" instead of "M-".
--
Lars Lindberg <l...@sypro.cap.se>
Richard Sabey x8753
has a `Compose Character' key to the left of the space bar, and Emacs uses that
as the Meta key.
By the way, if you post to 2 or more newsgroups, it reduces net
traffic if you indicate 1 newsgroup to which replies are to be sent, in a
Followup-To line.
--
r...@swindon.gpsemi.com or Richar...@swindon.gpsemi.com Tel: 0793 518753
These Internet addresses are RIGHT. Int. Tel. +44 793 518753
I'm at `swindon', not `oldham' or `lincoln'.
########[ ][ ][ ][ ]## ,--. +--+ ,--. +--. + +--+ ,--. ,--. +--+ . ,
###/ ______[ ][ ][ ]## | | | | | | | | | | \ /
/' /#########[ ][ ] \ | ++ +-+ | +--' | +-+ `--. `--. +-+ Y
| /#############[ ] | | | | | | | | | | | |
\. \##############/ / `--+ +--+ `--' + +--+ +--+ `--' `--' +--+ +
##\ /##
#####~~~~~~~~~~~~##### S E M I C O N D U C T O R S
Kim Burgaard
>>>>> "JFM" == Jason F McBrayer <Jason.M...@launchpad.unc.edu> writes:
C> [Snip]
JFM> I myself use <alt>; I'm using GNU Emacs 19.19 for OS/2. The PC
JFM> is a clonebox of some sort, the keyboard is a generic 101-key
JFM> (american) PC keyboard.
C> Me as well, running Linux on a PC clone. However, it's the *left*
C> alt key. The right one is not meta.
This, fellow believers, I would certainly say, this inquery is on the
edge! May the Lord have mercy in us little people. Therefore the
following might be quite unreadable, since I'm writing this with
trembling hands!
Sun Sparc Classic:
The sacret, holy, iconified Diamond; can be cast in both west
and east.
HP9000 s700 et s300:
The crusaders in the yet dangerous and somewhat barbaric land,
shall posses strenght and will power in order to execute the sacret
prayers and spells. It must therefore be Extended Char, which may
assist the brave...
Linux:
The wast, and until recently, lost continent of the
PersonalComputer people; there, the Light has finally found way to
this dark and barbaric world. Hope is looming, but still one must
handle with care, therefore alternative methods are requiered and
Alt it is indeed.
I have said more than enough, may my soul be spared! We shall all pray
and confess our sins. Cursed be the deVIl and his come!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Name: Kim Burgaard | Student at Computer Science Dept.|
|EMail: `burg...@daimi.aau.dk' | University of Aarhus, Denmark|
|WWW: `http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~u930702/' |*Relax - It's Only Ones And Zeroes*|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Name: Kim Burgaard | Student at Computer Science Dept.|
|EMail: "burg...@daimi.aau.dk" | University of Aarhus, Denmark|
|WWW: "http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~u930702/" |*Relax - It's Only Ones And Zeroes*|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik Naggum
| By the way, if you post to 2 or more newsgroups, it reduces net traffic
| if you indicate 1 newsgroup to which replies are to be sent, in a
| Followup-To line.
this is false. there is neither more nor less net traffic resulting from
cross-posting. articles are transmitted _once_, stored on disk _once_ and
should be read _once_ by good newsreaders. there may be reasons for using
a Followup-To to a single group, but net traffic is not among them.
| --
| r...@swindon.gpsemi.com or Richar...@swindon.gpsemi.com Tel: 0793 518753
| These Internet addresses are RIGHT. Int. Tel. +44 793 518753
| I'm at `swindon', not `oldham' or `lincoln'.
|
| ########[ ][ ][ ][ ]## ,--. +--+ ,--. +--. + +--+ ,--. ,--. +--+ . ,
| ###/ ______[ ][ ][ ]## | | | | | | | | | | \ /
| /' /#########[ ][ ] \ | ++ +-+ | +--' | +-+ `--. `--. +-+ Y
| | /#############[ ] | | | | | | | | | | | |
| \. \##############/ / `--+ +--+ `--' + +--+ +--+ `--' `--' +--+ +
| ##\ /##
| #####~~~~~~~~~~~~##### S E M I C O N D U C T O R S
if your concern is net traffic, I have a suggestion regarding your signature.
best regards,
</Erik>
--
Erik Naggum <er...@naggum.no> <SG...@ifi.uio.no> | memento, terrigena
ISO 8652 Ada/ISO 8879 SGML/ISO 9899 C/ISO 10646 UCS | memento, vita brevis
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David Brooks
>Me as well, running Linux on a PC clone. However, it's the *left* alt
>key. The right one is not meta.
Well, when you use X, you do have flexibility with how you use the two
keys. I use an HP720, which has two "Extend char" keys; here's part of my
startup xmodmap:
clear mod1
clear mod2
keycode 10 = Mode_switch
keycode 11 = Meta_L
add mod1 = Meta_L
add mod2 = Mode_switch
...
Using the X interface and emacs 19, I can use the left Extend key for meta,
and the right for inserting extended characters.
--
David Brooks dbr...@ics.com
Integrated Computer Solutions
Michael Hucka
> In particular, what key do you use on YOUR computer as the meta key?
> I already know that many people use the <Esc> key, but I am wondering
> what other keys are in use.
Bear in mind that the Meta key and the ESC key are not the same thing.
Also, if you are running X windows, you can remap the keyboard to your
liking, and make any key into a Meta modifier key. See the man page for
xmodmap.
On IBM-style keyboards, I personally use the key immediately next to the
space bar on the left (labeled "Alt" on some manufacturer's keyboards, "Meta"
on others). This makes control-meta key combinations convenient to type.
--
-- Mike Hucka
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Mich.
Peter Hahn
>In article <2ttkd3$g...@rain.org>, Wendy Murdock <wmur...@rain.org> wrote:
>>Using the Meta Key With Emacs
>>=============================
>>
>>I wonder if you emacs people would take a moment to tell me about your meta key.
>>
>>In particular, what key do you use on YOUR computer as the meta key?
>>
>>I already know that many people use the <Esc> key, but I am wondering
>>what other keys are in use.
>>
>>If you could please tell me what type of computer and keyboard you use and
>>what is your meta key I would appreciate it.
>>
>>- Wendy Murdock
>> wmur...@rain.org
>>
>I myself use <alt>; I'm using GNU Emacs 19.19 for OS/2.
>The PC is a clonebox of some sort, the keyboard is a
>generic 101-key (american) PC keyboard.
<Alt> is also the default mapping on Linux platforms in text mode as well
as under X11. Linux is not machine related, so computer may be [345]86 with
any keyboard. Emacs may be 19 or newer; this one is 19.22.1.
Peter
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Voice: +49 241 37151
Jochen Scharrlach
> Well, when you use X, you do have flexibility with how you use the two
> keys. I use an HP720, which has two "Extend char" keys; here's part of my
> startup xmodmap:
> clear mod1
> clear mod2
> keycode 10 = Mode_switch
> keycode 11 = Meta_L
> add mod1 = Meta_L
> add mod2 = Mode_switch
> ...
Well, the official HP-patch looks like this:
remove Mod1 = Alt_R Mode_switch
keysym Mode_switch = NoSymbol
keysym Alt_R = Mode_switch
add Mod2 = Mode_switch
(If Alt_R doesn't work, you should try Meta_R)
Bye,
Jochen
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------------------------------------
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or: aco...@ftp.uni-stuttgart.de
------------------------------------
Iftikhar Hussain Rathore
in order to press
META-x
or
M-x
press the ESC key and release it
then press x
This will work on every machine because this is the actuall
difinition of META key.
David L. Harfst
From: u93...@linum.daimi.aau.dk (Kim Burgaard)
>HP9000 s700 et s300:
> The crusaders in the yet dangerous and somewhat barbaric land,
> shall posses strenght and will power in order to execute the sacret
> prayers and spells. It must therefore be Extended Char, which may
> assist the brave...
That's strange (in more than one way :-). On our HP9000 s700, the <Esc> key
acts as the Emacs Meta key. The <Extend Char> key acts as the Alt key.
--
David L. Harfst harfst@.cms-stl.com
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==========================================================================
Skeezix
function most of the time as meta keys, and recently, since switching
to emacs 19, in fact since switching to vmail 5.72, I have
intermittently been unable to use my *left* diamond key as a meta key
in combination with my shift key.
That is, ESC-Shift-. still seems to be interpreted as M->, which is
bound to end-of-buffer, but when I hold down the left diamond (Meta)
key, the shift key, and the "." key, this seems to be interpreted as
M-., which is bound to find-tag. This symptom comes and goes with no
regularity I've been able to determine. The *right* diamond key still
seems to function as a Meta key, with or without the shift key.
Anyone ever had the experience of a Meta key failing to work in
combination with the shift key?
It doesn't seem to be a keymap thing, it just appears that when I
press the left Meta, the shift is ignored.
-jmc
--
God made man, but a monkey applied the glue -- Devo
Jacques Marcoux
Now that is a real personal question, I mean I hardly know you ;-)
Yair Friedman
IHR> Relay-Version: ANU News - V6.1 08/24/93 VAX/VMS V1.5; site vms.huji.ac.il
IHR> The META key is in fact the ESC key pressed momentarily
IHR> in order to press
IHR> META-x
IHR> or
IHR> M-x
IHR> press the ESC key and release it
IHR> then press x
IHR> This will work on every machine because this is the actuall
IHR> difinition of META key.
Could you please tell me how to folow this procedure on my VT220 terminal ??
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yair I. Friedman ya...@cs.huji.ac.il ya...@HUJICS.BITNET
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a
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computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
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Karl Berry
Some years, I discovered that if I made the key at the lower-left corner
of the keyboard into a meta key, using xmodmap, I could do META-whatever
using the side of my hand instead of a finger.
For me, this reduced the strain on my fingers from typing by much, much
more than anything else I've tried. It would be (literally) painful to
go back to anything else.
(Note this is a separate issue from ESC-x, since you don't use ESC as a
shift key, as another poster remarked.)
Darin Johnson
> IHR> This will work on every machine because this is the actuall
> IHR> difinition of META key.
Nope. The ESC method is a *substitute* for the META key, provided
because not all terminals have something usable as a META key.
It is not the definition.
The original emacsen (sp?) were developed on machines that had
a key labelled "meta". This was long ago in the days before
the rest of the industry decided that "control" was enough meta
keys for everyone, and 7-bit charsets were ample.
> Could you please tell me how to folow this procedure on my VT220 terminal ??
You can do "C-[" for escape. There is an ESC on a vt220, but it
requires changing some of the setup (which will make the other
function keys bogus), and often isn't actually labelled on the
keyboard (it's a top row function key). Unfortunately, DEC seems
to think ESC is unnecessary because EDT and EVE don't need them.
But I got really used to "C-[" when a vt200 was my main terminal,
and would even use it when I was working temporarily on a workstation
that had ESC (and meta keys). At such times, people would look
over my shoulder, and assume that I was using an arcane set of
keybindings, and ask me what nifty command I was doing...
--
Darin Johnson
djoh...@ucsd.edu
Support your right to own gnus.
David Rogoff x4627
inc>IHR> The META key is in fact the ESC key pressed momentarily
inc>IHR> in order to press
inc>IHR> META-x
inc>IHR> or
inc>IHR> M-x
inc>IHR> press the ESC key and release it
inc>IHR> then press x
inc>
inc>IHR> This will work on every machine because this is the actuall
inc>IHR> difinition of META key.
inc>
inc>
I think that you can set one of the PF keys to ESC, but the easiest
(and it should work on any ASCII tube) is control-[ (Control left
square backet)
David
David L. Harfst
square backet) ^^^^^^^^^^
...which is, in fact, the ASCII control sequence for the ESC key.
Michael Giegerich
Yair Friedman <ya...@cs.huji.ac.il> wrote:
[...]
>IHR> M-x
>IHR> press the ESC key and release it
>IHR> then press x
>Could you please tell me how to folow this procedure on my VT220 terminal ??
Press Ctrl and 3, release them, than press x
(ctrl-3 is ESC on VTs).
-Michael
--
------------------------------+------------------------------
Michael Giegerich | migi...@luva.stgt.sub.org
------------------------------+------------------------------
Mark Evenson
(David L. Harfst) writes:
From: u93...@linum.daimi.aau.dk (Kim Burgaard)
>HP9000 s700 et s300:
> The crusaders in the yet dangerous and somewhat barbaric land,
> shall posses strenght and will power in order to execute the sacret
> prayers and spells. It must therefore be Extended Char, which may
> assist the brave...
That's strange (in more than one way :-). On our HP9000 s700, the <Esc>
key acts as the Emacs Meta key. The <Extend Char> key acts as the Alt key.
Yea, Brother, for it is true across all platforms (Praised be the the
Portability of the True One!), that have the sacred escape key that, with
its assistance the Editor may modify the standard character codes.
Markus Armbruster
> IHR> The META key is in fact the ESC key pressed momentarily
> IHR> in order to press
> IHR> META-x
> IHR> or
> IHR> M-x
> IHR> press the ESC key and release it
> IHR> then press x
>
> IHR> This will work on every machine because this is the actuall
> IHR> difinition of META key.
>
> Could you please tell me how to folow this procedure on my VT220 terminal ??
Of course. Press the ctrl key, then press [, release both. This is
the actual definition of the ESC key.
Couldn't resist...
Markus
Allen R Sparks
E> [Richard Sabey] | By the way, if you post to 2 or more
E> newsgroups, it reduces net traffic | if you indicate 1
E> newsgroup to which replies are to be sent, in a | Followup-To
E> line.
E> this is false. there is neither more nor less net traffic
E> resulting from cross-posting. articles are transmitted _once_,
E> stored on disk _once_ and should be read _once_ by good
E> newsreaders. there may be reasons for using a Followup-To to a
E> single group, but net traffic is not among them.
Actually, posting to one group will reduce net traffic in that it
engenders less replies. Posting to more than one, but indicating one
Follow-up-To, assuming that it wouldn't reduce replies, does not
reduce net traffic one wit. === Al
Jurgen Botz
Consult your DEC to English dictionary and you'll find that ESC is F11.
(Now isn't that obvious?)
--
Jurgen Botz, jb...@mtholyoke.edu | ``Accountability is the price of openness''
South Hadley, MA, USA | - Daniel Geer
Michael Gschwind
>>I wonder if you emacs people would take a moment to tell me about your meta key.
>>
>>In particular, what key do you use on YOUR computer as the meta key?
>>
>The PC is a clonebox of some sort, the keyboard is a
>generic 101-key (american) PC keyboard.
<Alt> is also the default mapping on Linux platforms in text mode as well
as under X11. Linux is not machine related, so computer may be [345]86 with
any keyboard. Emacs may be 19 or newer; this one is 19.22.1.
The Meta- Alt story is a long and arduous one, as many parts
interact...
X defines a set of modifier keys, which are
Shift-
Control-
Meta-
Alt-
Compose-
Super-
...
etc.
You can bind the meaning of any of these keys on any of your keyboard
keys. In fact, with the xmodmap utility you could map you keyboard to
say 'z' when you type 'a', 'y' when you type 'b', etc.
Then these characters are sent to emacs. Emacs tries to find a Meta-
key, but if none can be found, it will use the Alt- key instead.
This sequence is in Xkeyboard.c, I think and goes roughly like:
-- pseudo-code ALERT --
/* if no Metas are found, all Alt keys are Meta keys. */
if (Meta == NULL)
{ Meta = ALT; Alt = NULL}
--
This makes sense because in Emacs you really WANT Meta, and many
keyboards don't have Meta (esp. in the PC- world). It might make more
sense to force people to use xmodmap to make X generate Meta- events,
but the current approach is easier on Joe l-user.
So we get the following translation chain:
keyboard -----------------> X event ------------------> emacs lisp
configured by builtin algorithm
xmodmap for Meta- substitution
If you want both Alt- and Meta, you can use xmodmap to turn the left
Alt- key into a Meta key, the right Alt key into the only Alt- key.
Then, emacs will happily find a Meta key and leave your Alt-key alone.
m.
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snail: Treitlstrasse 3-182-2 || A-1040 Wien || Austria
email: mi...@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at note: real time != real fast
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Stephen Riehm
RIGHT interpretation of ALT and META is?? I was always under the
impression that Meta should set the 8th bit of a character,
ie: M-a = int('a') + 128. As for what Alt should do I have no idea.
I have found that xemacs checks for the alt/meta key directly, and
HP-VUE has the Alt sequences mapped to some bizarre mapping which has
no mathematical rhyme or reason to it at all. I have since re-mapped
all my keys to follow the above method, but I'm still not 100% sure
that I got them all.
Is this the right way to go, or did I miss something???
(I find it important to be able to run cat -v or something similar so
that I can work out _what_ I typed so that I can type it again. (I use
Meta keys for shell bindings, vi macros, emacs etc etc - so I want the
same key sequences regardless of the program)
For any NetBSDers out there, how is the console mapped? It seems to
MOSTLY match the above description, but with exceptions. Can the
console keyboard be re-mapped? (without re-compiling the kernel?)
thanks in advance
Steve
_________________________________________________________________________
// Stephen Riehm The end was nigh...
\\\\ ln_...@pki-nbg.philips.de ...now we're into extra time :-)
//// Tel: +49 911 526 2975
\\ Philips doesn't represent me, I don't represent Philips.... Simple!
Torbj|rn Lindgren
Darin Johnson <djoh...@arnold.ucsd.edu> wrote:
>> Could you please tell me how to folow this procedure on my VT220 terminal ??
>
>You can do "C-[" for escape. There is an ESC on a vt220, but it
C-3 should work too. (Works on vt-220 and vt-320 at least).
Richard Sabey
has a `Compose Character' key to the left of the space bar, and Emacs uses that
as the Meta key.