Gospel of Thomas Saying 24
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gnostic ken
Nov 29, 2012, 9:19:58 AM11/29/12
to gnost...@googlegroups.com
What does this Jesus saying say to you?
24 His disciples said,
"Show us the place where you are, for we must seek it."
He said to them, "Anyone here with two ears had better listen! There is light within a person of light, and it shines on the whole world. If it does not shine, it is dark."
...........................
24 His disciples said to Him,
"Show us the place where You are,
since it is necessary for us to seek it."
He said to them,
"Whoever has ears, let him hear.
There is light within a man of light,
and he (or "it") lights up the whole world.
If he (or "it") does not shine, he (or "it") is darkness."
............................
24 His disciples requested:
Teach us about the PLACE
Where you live,
For we must seek it.
He said:
He who has ears let him hear.
There is light in a man of light,
Who gives light to the world.
If he does not give light,
there is only Darkness.
............................
24 His Disciples say: Explain thy place to us,
for it is compulsory for us to seek it. ||
He says to them: Whoever has ears, let him hear!
Within a Person of Light there is Light,
and he illumines the entire world.
When he does not shine, there is darkness.
.........................
(24)
(1) His disciples said:
"Show us the place where you are,
because it is necessary for us to seek it.
(2) He said to them: "Whoever has ears should hear!
(3) Light exists inside a person of light,
and he shines on the whole world.
If he does not shine, there is darkness."
24 His disciples said,
"Show us the place where you are, for we must seek it."
He said to them, "Anyone here with two ears had better listen! There is light within a person of light, and it shines on the whole world. If it does not shine, it is dark."
...........................
24 His disciples said to Him,
"Show us the place where You are,
since it is necessary for us to seek it."
He said to them,
"Whoever has ears, let him hear.
There is light within a man of light,
and he (or "it") lights up the whole world.
If he (or "it") does not shine, he (or "it") is darkness."
............................
24 His disciples requested:
Teach us about the PLACE
Where you live,
For we must seek it.
He said:
He who has ears let him hear.
There is light in a man of light,
Who gives light to the world.
If he does not give light,
there is only Darkness.
............................
24 His Disciples say: Explain thy place to us,
for it is compulsory for us to seek it. ||
He says to them: Whoever has ears, let him hear!
Within a Person of Light there is Light,
and he illumines the entire world.
When he does not shine, there is darkness.
.........................
(24)
(1) His disciples said:
"Show us the place where you are,
because it is necessary for us to seek it.
(2) He said to them: "Whoever has ears should hear!
(3) Light exists inside a person of light,
and he shines on the whole world.
If he does not shine, there is darkness."
gnostic ken
Nov 29, 2012, 9:38:58 AM11/29/12
to gnost...@googlegroups.com
Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:14 pm, I said:
You are either going to get it or you won't.
Ken
You are either going to get it or you won't.
Ken
Sep 19, 2006 07:45 PDT, slvan- said:
We are all left in the dark till we respond to the spark of Divinity in each
of us.
Scott V.
PS Similiar to the Kingdom of God is (really) WITHIN (inside) you... not
necessarily out there some where. (Even though its out there too.)
Sep 19, 2006 07:52 PDT, I answered:
Hi Scott,
I see "Kingdom of God" as meaning the place where God
is. Since ancient Jews thought God was the most
powerful thing there was they assumed God would live
in a kingdom.
Ken
Sep 19, 2006 09:48 PDT, Richard said:
Seems to me he is saying that the christ consciousness is within us .. and
so, let it out.
Sep 19, 2006 10:17 PDT, I replied to Richard:
Right, Wake up and smell the Gnosis!
Ken
Sep 20, 2006 11:50 PDT, Gnostic Tom said:
how about...
nothing outside of you can turn on your
own personal inner light, you have to do it
for yourself.
=====================================
Thomas Ragland (Gnostic Tom)
"So little time, so much to unlearn."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christ_And_Buddha
=====================================
Sep 20, 2006 16:02 PDT, slvan- added:
You need not stay in the dark!
_If you let it_, you and your whole world will be filled with light. (As _soon_ as you will.)
Scott V.
PS AND, the source of this light is not out there somewhere, but in here (deep inside).
We are all left in the dark till we respond to the spark of Divinity in each
of us.
Scott V.
PS Similiar to the Kingdom of God is (really) WITHIN (inside) you... not
necessarily out there some where. (Even though its out there too.)
Sep 19, 2006 07:52 PDT, I answered:
Hi Scott,
I see "Kingdom of God" as meaning the place where God
is. Since ancient Jews thought God was the most
powerful thing there was they assumed God would live
in a kingdom.
Ken
Sep 19, 2006 09:48 PDT, Richard said:
Seems to me he is saying that the christ consciousness is within us .. and
so, let it out.
Sep 19, 2006 10:17 PDT, I replied to Richard:
Right, Wake up and smell the Gnosis!
Ken
Sep 20, 2006 11:50 PDT, Gnostic Tom said:
how about...
nothing outside of you can turn on your
own personal inner light, you have to do it
for yourself.
=====================================
Thomas Ragland (Gnostic Tom)
"So little time, so much to unlearn."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christ_And_Buddha
=====================================
Sep 20, 2006 16:02 PDT, slvan- added:
You need not stay in the dark!
_If you let it_, you and your whole world will be filled with light. (As _soon_ as you will.)
Scott V.
PS AND, the source of this light is not out there somewhere, but in here (deep inside).
Sat Feb 9, 2008 3:53 am, letterpi wrote:
Heaven expressed metaphorically. Warmly, Bob S
Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:52 am, itsallrozee said:
i get that it is saying if the light isn't within you then there
will be no light in the world in ones own experience. In a lightless
beings experience, its all darkness.
Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:43 am, edmondwhlr said:
Expression, Light with no object to reflect is no light at all. something not
expressed cannot complete the circle. imo
ed
Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:07 am, Steve said:
The disciples, still unable to see the Kingdom spread out
before them, imagine that they must somehow "go" where Jesus
is. A man once went searching for fire with a lit lantern,
not knowing what fire was. "Light" is an ancient metaphor
for consciousness. The whole wide world exists in the light
of consciousness, without which everything is dark. It is not
a matter of coming or going, of seeking and finding, for all
waves of the water are equally wet. And yet, not knowing what
fire is, we wave our lanterns as we earnestly seek the light.
As Huang Po noted, this is "using the Buddha to seek the Buddha
and using the mind to grasp the mind." As long as we are thus
deluded, the Goal will forever recede into the distance. It is
not hard to find, but impossible to lose.
IMO.
-Steve
Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:41 am, Steve added:
P.S. BTW, if the disciples had only had one ear instead of two,
then they would not have asked that question! -Steve
Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:59 am, itsallrozee asked Steve:
thats interesting, because i was drawn to the fact it reads 'two
ears' and also asked myself, "...so... people with one ear?" then i
guess its stating that one should listen, even with two ears, for a one
eared man will listen much more closely? !! or is the sound of one hand
clapping scenario, but with one ear listening?
Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:32 pm, Steve answered Rozee:
Krishnamurti observed that in the collision between
subject and object lies the entire misery of humankind.
-Steve
Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:43 am, itsallrozee said:
what i like and relate to, with krisnamurti, is the contradiction.
-rosemary
Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:53 am, vang19th said:
Somewhere in one of the gospels Jesus says something like this:
"If the light that is within you is darkness how big will that
light not be"
In mind must be the darkness of illusions. It shines too on the
whole world with the fake light of fancies.
The light mentioned in the saying is of a different kind, but
once lit it penetrates the whole sphere of human being.
The spiritual light is needed to see the place where Jesus is,
the spiritual place of enlightment and transquility and guide you
there. (imo).
Soren
Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:27 am, edmondwhlr said:
I like what you said Steve, Imo The collision is also the catalyst for joy, So
for me I rather enjoy suffering for I gnow the joy is coming, The swing of the
pendulum. For a long Time Steve I withdrew from really interacting with the
world, Now I like to play out the masks I am given for the day. The new
emotional responses are incredible to experience. Although some suck and I am
the first one to admit it but the joy is really worth it. as always my imho
ed
Heaven expressed metaphorically. Warmly, Bob S
Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:52 am, itsallrozee said:
i get that it is saying if the light isn't within you then there
will be no light in the world in ones own experience. In a lightless
beings experience, its all darkness.
Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:43 am, edmondwhlr said:
Expression, Light with no object to reflect is no light at all. something not
expressed cannot complete the circle. imo
ed
Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:07 am, Steve said:
The disciples, still unable to see the Kingdom spread out
before them, imagine that they must somehow "go" where Jesus
is. A man once went searching for fire with a lit lantern,
not knowing what fire was. "Light" is an ancient metaphor
for consciousness. The whole wide world exists in the light
of consciousness, without which everything is dark. It is not
a matter of coming or going, of seeking and finding, for all
waves of the water are equally wet. And yet, not knowing what
fire is, we wave our lanterns as we earnestly seek the light.
As Huang Po noted, this is "using the Buddha to seek the Buddha
and using the mind to grasp the mind." As long as we are thus
deluded, the Goal will forever recede into the distance. It is
not hard to find, but impossible to lose.
IMO.
-Steve
Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:41 am, Steve added:
P.S. BTW, if the disciples had only had one ear instead of two,
then they would not have asked that question! -Steve
Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:59 am, itsallrozee asked Steve:
thats interesting, because i was drawn to the fact it reads 'two
ears' and also asked myself, "...so... people with one ear?" then i
guess its stating that one should listen, even with two ears, for a one
eared man will listen much more closely? !! or is the sound of one hand
clapping scenario, but with one ear listening?
Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:32 pm, Steve answered Rozee:
Krishnamurti observed that in the collision between
subject and object lies the entire misery of humankind.
-Steve
Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:43 am, itsallrozee said:
what i like and relate to, with krisnamurti, is the contradiction.
-rosemary
Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:53 am, vang19th said:
Somewhere in one of the gospels Jesus says something like this:
"If the light that is within you is darkness how big will that
light not be"
In mind must be the darkness of illusions. It shines too on the
whole world with the fake light of fancies.
The light mentioned in the saying is of a different kind, but
once lit it penetrates the whole sphere of human being.
The spiritual light is needed to see the place where Jesus is,
the spiritual place of enlightment and transquility and guide you
there. (imo).
Soren
Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:27 am, edmondwhlr said:
I like what you said Steve, Imo The collision is also the catalyst for joy, So
for me I rather enjoy suffering for I gnow the joy is coming, The swing of the
pendulum. For a long Time Steve I withdrew from really interacting with the
world, Now I like to play out the masks I am given for the day. The new
emotional responses are incredible to experience. Although some suck and I am
the first one to admit it but the joy is really worth it. as always my imho
ed
Sun Mar 1, 2009 12:35 pm, I said:
> "Show us the place where you are, for we must seek it."
> "Show us the place where you are, for we must seek it."
Can't take this one literally, can we? They must have known where he
was physically. He was setting right in the middle of them. Right?
Or was he?
Was someone, Mary perhaps, channeling him?
Ken
Sun Mar 1, 2009 12:41 pm, I added:
He isn't with them? Someone is channeling him. Him who? Not Jesus a
man. Jesus the Christ spirit perhaps?
So, asked where he is, he answers, "If you have ears to understand, I,
the Christ, am the light within you. If you let me shine the light will
spread throughout the world. If you don't let me shine there will be
dark ages to come."
Just something I thought of this morning.
Ken
Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:28 pm, I continued:
If this was a channeling then who was channeling the Christ spirit? A
real historical Jesus? Thomas? Mary? Paul? Or some unknown?
Had there been a real leader named Jesus who had channeled the Christ
spirit and now after the Romans killed him someone else was
channeling the Christ and the followers thought they were channeling
the spirit of the dead Jesus?
More things to think about.
Ken
was physically. He was setting right in the middle of them. Right?
Or was he?
Was someone, Mary perhaps, channeling him?
Ken
Sun Mar 1, 2009 12:41 pm, I added:
He isn't with them? Someone is channeling him. Him who? Not Jesus a
man. Jesus the Christ spirit perhaps?
So, asked where he is, he answers, "If you have ears to understand, I,
the Christ, am the light within you. If you let me shine the light will
spread throughout the world. If you don't let me shine there will be
dark ages to come."
Just something I thought of this morning.
Ken
Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:28 pm, I continued:
If this was a channeling then who was channeling the Christ spirit? A
real historical Jesus? Thomas? Mary? Paul? Or some unknown?
Had there been a real leader named Jesus who had channeled the Christ
spirit and now after the Romans killed him someone else was
channeling the Christ and the followers thought they were channeling
the spirit of the dead Jesus?
More things to think about.
Ken
Tue Mar 3, 2009 3:24 am, sherylplo1 said:
According to the Sophian and other traditions (Yogananda for one), a liberated
soul is able to generate an emanation body that is perceivable with mundane
sensing - appearing, if desired, physical, or more ethereal.
And so after Jesus was crucified and resurrected, being a fully liberated soul,
he was able to appear to any he wished.
Shalom.
Sheryl
Tue Mar 3, 2009 3:10 pm, I answered Sheryl:
That's their gnosis. My gnosis is Jesus is crucified and resurrected as a Christ
within us as a part of spiritual awakening. My gnosis is there is no soul
seperate from the body.
What is your gnosis?
Ken
Tue Mar 3, 2009 6:48 pm, sherylplo1 answered:
Ha! Yours, mine...and ours!
I would say, from my experience, Ken, that Gnosis is a couple of things - each
being more of an 'ours' that exist both within each entity of creation and
without.
Gnosis is connecting with the universal consciousness or 'Gnosis Mind' that
exists beyond the individual mental consciousness, and it is entering into other
worlds and dimensions. These experiences of Gnosis ultimately leading to
Integral Self-Realization and Union with the Universal and the Divine (although
this last part I have not experienced!).
So for me, my Gnosis is advancing/developing inner and outer experiencing,
leading to the birth, baptism, crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension of
Christ within. (I have only experienced the first ones - which at least for me
has been a joint inner and outer journey/experience, for two reasons. We need
outside help! And the ultimate goal is the integration of all our being - body,
soul (bestial and godly) and spirit.)
And so contained within Gnosis is a myriad of possible meditative states or
mystical experiences, maps of such experiences existing in our wisdom
traditions. The purpose of all experiences, as you see also, being spiritual
awakening - which in my experience and understanding ultimately leads to our
individual and collective human Liberation/Redemption/Salavation - which I have
been told can take 100s or 1000s of lives for the individual consciousness, or
3-7 if one connects with true Apostle, or carrier of Light.
And so to me, Jesus is a being outside of myself who has achieved this, and who
is there to guide and help me. In his finding and opening up the Way, he has
become the Way for other individual consciousness'. He has not appeared to me
in an emanation body though! : )) But I have experienced him - or levels of
him - in vision and revelation.
These experiences of Christ in Jesus have awakened the Christ in me.
Shalom.
Sheryl
Wed Mar 4, 2009 4:26 pm, I replied:
Actually gnosis is an ancient Greek word meaning "knowledge gained from
experience." When the people we now call ancient Gnostics used it in their
spiritual writings they meant "knowledge gained from spiritual experience." So
when I say my Gnosis is, I am talking about my knowledge gained from my personal
spiritual experiences on a given topic. When I ask what your Gnosis about
something is I am asking what your knowledge gained from your personal spiritual
experience is on whatever topic we are discussing at that time.
Ken
According to the Sophian and other traditions (Yogananda for one), a liberated
soul is able to generate an emanation body that is perceivable with mundane
sensing - appearing, if desired, physical, or more ethereal.
And so after Jesus was crucified and resurrected, being a fully liberated soul,
he was able to appear to any he wished.
Shalom.
Sheryl
Tue Mar 3, 2009 3:10 pm, I answered Sheryl:
That's their gnosis. My gnosis is Jesus is crucified and resurrected as a Christ
within us as a part of spiritual awakening. My gnosis is there is no soul
seperate from the body.
What is your gnosis?
Ken
Tue Mar 3, 2009 6:48 pm, sherylplo1 answered:
Ha! Yours, mine...and ours!
I would say, from my experience, Ken, that Gnosis is a couple of things - each
being more of an 'ours' that exist both within each entity of creation and
without.
Gnosis is connecting with the universal consciousness or 'Gnosis Mind' that
exists beyond the individual mental consciousness, and it is entering into other
worlds and dimensions. These experiences of Gnosis ultimately leading to
Integral Self-Realization and Union with the Universal and the Divine (although
this last part I have not experienced!).
So for me, my Gnosis is advancing/developing inner and outer experiencing,
leading to the birth, baptism, crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension of
Christ within. (I have only experienced the first ones - which at least for me
has been a joint inner and outer journey/experience, for two reasons. We need
outside help! And the ultimate goal is the integration of all our being - body,
soul (bestial and godly) and spirit.)
And so contained within Gnosis is a myriad of possible meditative states or
mystical experiences, maps of such experiences existing in our wisdom
traditions. The purpose of all experiences, as you see also, being spiritual
awakening - which in my experience and understanding ultimately leads to our
individual and collective human Liberation/Redemption/Salavation - which I have
been told can take 100s or 1000s of lives for the individual consciousness, or
3-7 if one connects with true Apostle, or carrier of Light.
And so to me, Jesus is a being outside of myself who has achieved this, and who
is there to guide and help me. In his finding and opening up the Way, he has
become the Way for other individual consciousness'. He has not appeared to me
in an emanation body though! : )) But I have experienced him - or levels of
him - in vision and revelation.
These experiences of Christ in Jesus have awakened the Christ in me.
Shalom.
Sheryl
Wed Mar 4, 2009 4:26 pm, I replied:
Actually gnosis is an ancient Greek word meaning "knowledge gained from
experience." When the people we now call ancient Gnostics used it in their
spiritual writings they meant "knowledge gained from spiritual experience." So
when I say my Gnosis is, I am talking about my knowledge gained from my personal
spiritual experiences on a given topic. When I ask what your Gnosis about
something is I am asking what your knowledge gained from your personal spiritual
experience is on whatever topic we are discussing at that time.
Ken
Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:32 am, Sam commented:
Gist of GoT 24:
All... can wilfuly improve this world
when innate-altruism unfurled.
All... who choose to live in self-ish way
spawn woe for other folk every day.
itso,
philo
All... can wilfuly improve this world
when innate-altruism unfurled.
All... who choose to live in self-ish way
spawn woe for other folk every day.
itso,
philo
25 Mar 11, Clive said:
Hmm, Light shines within a person of light.
I guess he's saying that we have to have an equivolence of form with the light for it to shine in us.
Maybe a bit like a radio receiver that has to be tuned in to a channel of a simular frequency to pick up the station.
I see it as meaning that we need to transform our human nature, which is darkness, to the nature of the Creator which is light. In so doing we open up the channel for the light of the Creator to enter us.
I guess he's saying that we have to have an equivolence of form with the light for it to shine in us.
Maybe a bit like a radio receiver that has to be tuned in to a channel of a simular frequency to pick up the station.
I see it as meaning that we need to transform our human nature, which is darkness, to the nature of the Creator which is light. In so doing we open up the channel for the light of the Creator to enter us.
27 Mar 11, I said:
I see it as saying we have to have to have the ability. Tuning to the right frequency is a good analogy. IMO. Now, how do we get the ability. Are we all born with it and just have to "tune" it in? Or is tuning it in how we get the ability? The chicken and the egg?
Ken
Ken
28 Mar 11, Clive said:
To my way of thinking, I don't believe we were born with the ability, I believe we were created in a perfect state, in harmony with the creator, but since then its been a continual proccess of adding egoism over many lifetimes and distancing ourselves from the original state.
Somewhere buried deep inside us this perfect state still exists, shining its light and we need to strip off our clothes to rediscover it.
I believe the more we strip off our egoism, the closer to the nature of this light or our original self we become and the closer we get the stronger we experience the glow of this light.
In other words, the more we make ourselves like the light the stronger it shines in us.
IMHO.
Somewhere buried deep inside us this perfect state still exists, shining its light and we need to strip off our clothes to rediscover it.
I believe the more we strip off our egoism, the closer to the nature of this light or our original self we become and the closer we get the stronger we experience the glow of this light.
In other words, the more we make ourselves like the light the stronger it shines in us.
IMHO.
29 Mar 11, I replied:
By egoism do you mean our sense of self or our sense of self importance?
Ken
Ken
29 Mar 11, Clive replied:
By egoism I mean what I see as our very nature, our essence. A desire for pleasure for myself even when its at the expense of others.
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