Gospel of Thomas Saying 14

[gnostic ken]

14
"If you fast, you will bring sin upon yourselves, and if you pray, you
will be condemned, and if you give to charity, you will harm your
spirits.

When you go into any region and walk about in the countryside,
when people take you in, eat what they serve you and heal the sick
among them.

After all, what goes into your mouth will not defile you; rather,
it's what comes out of your mouth that will defile you."
..................................................

(14) Jesus said to them,
"If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you
pray,
you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your
spirits.
When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they
receive
you,
eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them.
For what goes into your mouth will not defile you,
but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile
you."
..................................................

14.)
Jesus said:
If you fast,
you will create sins for yourselves.
If you pray you will be condemned.
If you give alms, you will injure yourselves.
If you go into a land and wander throughout its area,
and are offered hospitality,
Eat what is set before you.
Heal the sick among them.
It is not what goes into your mouth that defiles you
But what comes out of your mouth that defiles you.
...................................................

14. Y'shua says to them:
If you fast, you shall beget transgression for yourselves.
And if you pray, you shall be condemned. And if you give alms,
you shall cause evil to your spirits. And when you go into any land
to sojourn in the regions, if they receive you then eat what they set
before you and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your
mouth will not defile you--but rather what comes out of your mouth,
that is what will defile you.
(Isa 58:6-9, Mk 7:14-23!, Mt 6:6! + Jn 18:1!, =Lk 10:8-9, Th 6, 95,
104, Ph
74)
................................................

(14) Jesus said to them:
(1)‘If you fast, you will bring forth sin for yourselves.
(2) And if you pray, you will be condemned.
(3) And if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits.
(4) And if you go into any land and wander from place to place,
(and) if they take you in, (then) eat what they will set before you.
Heal the sick among them!
(5) For what goes into your mouth will not defile you.
Rather, what comes out of your mouth will defile you."

[gnostic ken]

Mon Oct 6, 2003 11:35 am, Buddhist Steve said:

This goes back to not telling lies and being true to yourself.
People frequently engage in external acts of piety and good works in
order to impress others. This is, of course, fake. -Steve W.

Tue Oct 7, 2003 2:32 am, Jenny said:

If you do anything it must be from your heart, and if you know yourself
and are true to that then nothing external will disturb your inner peace.
You can visit with others of a different belief and accept them with love,
without the need to change them or yourself.

Tuesday, October 07, 2003 4:23 PM, Roadhouse Jack said:

Perhaps this is a reminder that we can do
 the right thing for the wrong reason. I have seen over and over that
 much of my own "do goodin'" is nothing more than an attempt to
 project the image of "the good guy". And not just to others;
 that "what a good boy am I" feeling is just irresistable to some of
 us.
 Jack

[gnostic ken]

Aug 10, 2006 11:28 PDT, Gnostic Tom said:

A lot of times I like to put ideas into my own
words, to paraphrase or retranslate. Here is my
take on this verse:

Did you ever notice that when you try to diet
that it makes you hungry and then you end up
eating more than if you weren't trying to diet?

Did you ever notice that the more words you try
to use to convey a spiritual idea
the more you get things confused and wrong?

Did you ever notice that if you make a donation
to a charity and then gloat about how good you
are for making a donation that you end up being
worse off for the experience?

If you visit a new country for the first time.
Take the time to walk through their forests,
visit their homes, sample their foods, really
get to know what they have need of being improved.

Few people will think bad about you for what you
put into your mouth. If they think bad about you
it will be because of what comes out of your mouth.

[gnostic ken]

Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:03 pm, itsallrozee said:

.It suggests that external actions which are based
on religious ritual and belief rather than inner experience of truth
are harmful.

Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:18 pm, Linda said:

To me, the first part of this verse refers to those who fast, publicly pray,
and give charity with ostentation. They are not doing this with sincerity,
but to prove how pious and holy they are, that they are superior to those
who have less to give. We all know of this kind of person, the "great
philanthropist" who gives and makes sure that the world knows it. Their
works may help others, but at the same time, their puffed-up ego is
condemning themselves. Not to mention the tax write-off that they get for
stroking their ego. Their so-called charity is just another aspect of their
own selfish attitude.

The second part is dealing with the dietary laws of the Torah and how
meaningless they really are. When people give you something to eat, it is
given out of the goodness of their hearts, and to insult them by rejecting
it because of some silly and superstitious law, is far worse than breaking
any law.

The third part continues this by explaining that what you eat doesn't
matter, but your words to others do.

Linda

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:50 pm, Rosalie said:

So much for ascetic practices! What, no hair shirts?! No scourging
oneself? On the other hand, fasting can bring on an altered state of
consciousness,
I believe, but that hardly qualifies it as a necessary practice.

Rosalie

[gnostic ken]

Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:26 am, Sheryl said:

To me, Jesus is saying in verse 14 that spiritual living is living your life for
others. Whatever spiritual practice you engage in, what comes out of you -
whether it be praying/meditation, study, fasting, even charitable giving, if it
is for the self, even trying to make your self holy, you will find only curses,
defilement. But if your spiritual practice is for others, for their benefit and
enlightenment, then you will find blessings.

This reminds me of a story that Yogananda tells...

A couple of men were found buried, still alive, and it appeared that they had
been there buried, in a samadhi state, for over a 100 years. When they were
revived they screamed No, put us back into the ground! We are so close to
liberation! Immediately though after being aroused, their bodies being quite
old, they died. Yogananda laughed in telling this story saying Fools! No way
would the divine Mother have granted them liberation. They must come again into
the physical, and live a life of service to others, bringing others with them,
before Mother will redeem them.

Shalom.

Sheryl

Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:32 pm, Hi Mate said:

I think this is saying that the truth is in you and what you do, not about
ritual and tabu. In fact I think that is really what Christianity is 'about'. It
could be seen as a new dispensation for the new age of Pisces and Rome. That
dispensation takes a moral approach to religion that matches the Roman rule of
rational law rather than arbitrary decree. Religion is no longer about blindly
following prescribed forms as an isolated indivual, it is about understanding
your world and being part of humanity.

Tue Oct 7, 2003 10:23 am, Roadhouse Jack said:

Perhaps this is a reminder that we can do
the right thing for the wrong reason. I have seen over and over that
much of my own "do goodin'" is nothing more than an attempt to
project the image of "the good guy". And not just to others;
that "what a good boy am I" feeling is just irresistable to some of
us.
Jack

Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:24 pm, I said:

I think this is more of the "It ain't the ritual" message. Forget the
rituals. Help people. Be nice.

IMO.

Ken

Tue Feb 9, 2010 6:47 pm, Sam said:

Gist:

All conscious actions require a "Me";
as long as there's "Me" ~selfless~ can't be.
Transcending "Me"... is sole remedy.

itso,
sam

11 Feb. 2011 Clive said:

We should not fast or go on any special diets, If we subject ourselves to such suffering we will only increase our egoism. Instead we should just be regular people.

12 Feb. 2011, I agreed:

Right. Don't punish the body in order to contact the Divine.

IMO.

Ken