Gospel of Thomas Saying 8

[gnostic ken]

Gospel of Thomas Saying # 8

8 And he said,
The person is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and
drew
it up from the sea full of little fish. Among them the wise fisherman
discovered
a fine large fish. He threw all the little fish back into the sea, and
easily chose
the large fish. Anyone here with two good ears had better listen!
..................................................

(8) And he said,
"The man is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and
drew it
up from the sea full of small fish. Among them the wise fisherman
found a fine
large fish. He threw all the small fish back into the sea and chose
the
large fish
without difficulty. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear."
..................................................

8.)
Man is like a skilful fisherman,
casting his net into the sea
and drawing it out replete with small fish.
If the wise fisherman finds amongst them a large fish
He throws the smaller back into the sea,
Having selected the largest with ease.
He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
...................................................

8. And he says:
The [Sovereignty] is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the
sea.
He drew it up from the sea full of small fish. Among them he found a
large
good fish.
That wise fisherman, he threw all the small fish back into the sea,*
he
chose the
large fish without hesitation. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear!
(*asyndeton; =Mt 13:47-48)
................................................

(08)
(1) And he says:
     "The human being is like a sensible fisherman who cast his net
     into the sea and drew it up from the sea filled with little fish.
(2) Among them the sensible fisherman found a large, fine fish.
(3) He threw all the little fish back into the sea,
     (and) he chose the large fish effortlessly.
(4) Whoever has ears to hear should hear."

[gnostic ken]

Thu Oct 2, 2003 7:17 am, I said:

Keep what you like and reject the rest.

Fri Oct 3, 2003 4:49 am, Jenny said:

Sounds like he is saying, always take the biggest and the best, be
greedy...lol, joking..
Make use of what you are have already developed. don't waste your gifts,
while you wait for the others to mature.

Jen

Fri Oct 3, 2003 7:55 am, I replied to Jenny:

Good answer. To me it is about ideas being thrown at me. Ignore all
the unimportant ones and keep the important ones.

Fri Oct 3, 2003 1:21 pm, Roadhouse Jack said:

You know it is really only as a pagan that you can appreciate the
real meaning of the christian symbol "ichthys". In the mystery
cults the initiaton was an attempt (very successful evidently) to
reintroduce the initiate to his animal nature, to his identity with
PHYSIS. The old Greeks and Romans, who were civilized, more or less,
were not far removed from the days when they were just immersed in
the animal ways and it was not diffficult to reawaken that
experience. When they walked the animal path again, when they
remained their identity with nature, a great blessing came to them.
They felt the god-like power that is present in nature, and knew
themselves to share in its immortality. Be it water or air or fire
or whatever, they felt its power and they became strengthened.
They could now endure life and thrive, having eaten the food and
drunk the wine of the god. And sometimes they expressed this in the
form of a spiritual bath in which each initiate was an ICHTHYS
swimming in the animal layers of the psyche, to finally emerge
renewed.
Being a fish and going down into the water of the unconscious is
an extraordinary experience. One becomes all-embracing, and part of
ongoing creation. The blood of the god flows in your veins. And
one finds other fish, others making the same watery journey, even
christians. And they know that ICHTHYS is not just a quaint
antiquarian tidbit or a abit of sentimental piety now obsolete.
PHYSIS is not obsolete.
Jack

Fri Oct 3, 2003 12:41 pm, Roadhouse Jack added:

As luck would have it, after reading this
little parable I stuck my nose into JESUS AND THE LOST GODDESS by F &
G to read the chapter on Gnosis. They talk about the PNEUMATIC in
itiation that gives us the idea (and hopefully some experience) that
we are essemtially the ONE. They go into the philoosophy of this
fundamental mystery with some hints on how to experience it - at
least in small ways. Good stuff ! This image of the BIG FISH is
very helpful. In the way of symbols it encapsulates the whole
philosophy and points us to the experience while bypassing the
philosophic (and sometimes soporific) discourse.
A Footnote: Scholars have puzzled over the fish as symbol of
Christianity or CHrist. There is no where in the 4 gospels where
Jesus is identified in any way with the fish or ICHTHUS. But here in
this probably more ancient text than the gospels we find this big
fish which must be chosen above all. It is very easy to identify
this fish with the Inner Christ. Perhaps here is the connection.
Yet another footnote: The ICHTHUS or Christian fish image is a
simple one constructed by overlapping two circles so the top edge of
one intersects the center of the other. Add a dot for the eye to the
overlap part and you have this simple little line drawing of a fish.
This particular construction gives us a ratio of height to length of
53 : 165. You may not find this significant or particularly
interesting except in the gospels where Jesus instructs the disciples
on where to fish they come up with 53 fish ! Those ancient wriers
loved their numerology ! I will bet you a dollar to a Krispy Kream
donut that something in that gospel will be found to add up to 165 !
(I may remember the numbers wrong but it is all in Hoeller, I think).
Jack

Fri Oct 3, 2003 8:14 pm, I replied to Jack:

Could be the big fish is the big picture and the little
fish are details. Forget arguing over details and look at the big
picture.

[gnostic ken]

Fri Nov 14, 2003 9:41 pm, P3nn said:

THere are a number of things here as I see. The large fish in part implies
experience and wisdom. The fishing seems to imply the search for truth and
the large fish also the lion share or largest part/main flow of that truth.

MP
Penn

Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:22 pm, P3nn added:

I see it lil like the stream enterer in Buddhist teachings. The biggest fish
swim in the middle of the river in the main current as the stream enterer is
told he should go to the middle of the stream where lifes current is
fastest.

MP
Penn

Jul 26, 2006 04:53 PDT, Gnostic Tom said:

A teacher (fisherman)
is looking for someone to share Wisdom with,
lots of little fish (little potentials)
which would be a waste of the lesson,
but finding one (great potential for learning)
who was ready, the teacher concentrated
on the few and abandoned the many.

Jesus was surrounded by the masses,
yet taught his Wisdom to only a select few.
He had many disciples, yet was transfigured
to only three.

That some are better, more ready, exclusive,
is not a topic that is accepted these days.
Some want a level playing field, everyone the
same, all the fish the same size. To those
who have, more shall be given. To those who
have not, it all will be taken away. There is
a sense of degrees of initiation hinted at,
of those who have the gnosis and those who
don't get it.

=====================================
Thomas Ragland (Gnostic Tom)
"So little time, so much to unlearn."

 Jul 26, 2006 09:02 PDT, I said:

Hi Tom,
Yeah. I see how it can be taken that way. I see it
more as talking about big a little ideas and as
telling us to not get bogged down in details, to look
at the big picture.

Ken

Wed Oct 3, 2007 11:33 am, Buddhist Steve said:

Could you please speak up, I'm a little hard of hearing! ;-)
You know, you don't have to invest a lot of anxiety obsessing
over trivialities; the Fine Large Fish just flops right
out at you! IMO, the Big Fish is the Big Picture which includes
all of the little fish as well. It's so easy that it doesn't
take any effort at all!
-Steve

Wed Oct 3, 2007 12:41 pm, Rosalie said:

My first, or instant, response to this is that it's about discernment.

Rosalie

Wed Oct 3, 2007 1:08 pm, itsallrozee said:

by throwing back the small, as yet underdeveloped fish, its
allowing them to grow.

Wed Oct 3, 2007 2:33 pm, gravesab said:

Maybe the fine large fish was a self actualized ego......and
ready to be plucked....... (or maybe he was too stupid
despite his size....) and was pluckedout of his
environmentto the unknown afterlife -probably of us eating
him)

The little fishes weren't big enough for their britches yet,
so they had to go back and learn to follow their own
path.....


Maybe the little fished learned a lesson in that the big
fish was to be used as a lesson and not emulated, he did
after all end up as dinner.
So the little fishes didn't follow the big fish anymore.

And sushi prices have gone SKY HIGH!

Ann

Wed Oct 3, 2007 5:20 pm, amorccollector said:

Sounds to me a bit like the "Pearl of Great Price." There is one important
thing and all the rest are insignificant...don't waste your time with them.

Fred

Wed Oct 3, 2007 4:01 pm, choshek said:

My take on this is that we cast our nets widely for gnosis and when
we draw in our nets it is filled with all kinds of gnosis: ideas,
experiences, insights, etc.--all of them good and viable in their own
way. But there is only one (the "fine large fish") that at that time
and place in the person's journey is truely transformative. The wise
person is not only able to recognize it for what it is and apply it,
but also throws back all the other gnosis with the knowledge that
next time he/she casts the net, one of these may be the "big one" for
the next part of the journey.

Also, the "fine large fish" may readily differ from one person to the
next, so what works for one may not work for another at a given time
and place, so we must not judge others by where they are on their own
path.

CL, aka Mark

Thu Oct 4, 2007 6:27 am, Gnostic Tom said:

reading in the Hadith yesterday
where the "end times" is being discussed.
they expect Jesus to return and to take charge,
and described how every faithful Muslim
would recognize Jesus--that he was white and
had long straight hair that covered his ears
and flowed over his shoulders.
the idea was that he would be immediately known,
that everyone would drop what they were doing
and rally around him in support.

this symbol, this "great Fish" to supercede
all previous leaders, is a reoccuring theme,
an archtype in Jungian terms.

G n o s t i c T o m

Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:50 am, Buddhist Steve said:

Buddha said that noone would willingly choose a lesser
happiness instead of a greater happiness. IMO, the fine, large
fish represents the greatest joy of all, enlightenment.
Steve

Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:04 am, I had a different thought that before or now:

I see the big fish representing enlightenment and the little fish
representing rituals and dogma.

Ken

(2012: I like that. I'll have to try to remember it.)

Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:40 am, annokig said:

I see a few possible meanings but I am sure there are others!

Don't be glutinous, or your ruin the bounty of the earth to provide.

Don't bother with the little fish, so to speak. but teach the one who is
ready to hear. Or in other words don't cast your pearls amongst the swine

Or. Be careful in choosing your friends, be with one who can fulfill
you.(and vice versa)

Ann