Gospel of Thomas Saying 21
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gnostic ken
Sep 26, 2012, 2:46:33 PM9/26/12
to gnost...@googlegroups.com
What does this saying - say/mean to you?
21 - Mary said to Jesus, "What are your disciples like?"
He said, They are like little children living in a field that is not
theirs. when the owners of
the field come, they will say, "Give us back our field." They take
off
their clothes in front of
them in order to give it back to them, and they return their field
to
them.
For this reason I say, if the owners of a house know that a thief is
coming, they will be on
guard before the thief arrives and will not let the thief break into
their
house (their
domain) and steal their possessions.
As for you, then, be on guard against the world. Prepare yourselves
with
great strength,
so the robbers can't find a way to get to you, for the trouble you
expect
will come.
Let there be among you a person who understands.
When the crop ripened, he came quickly carrying a sickle and
harvested it.
Anyone here
with two good ears had better listen!
....................................
21 - Mary said to Jesus, "What are your disciples like?"
He said, They are like little children living in a field that is not
theirs. when the owners of
the field come, they will say, "Give us back our field." They take
off
their clothes in front of
them in order to give it back to them, and they return their field
to
them.
For this reason I say, if the owners of a house know that a thief is
coming, they will be on
guard before the thief arrives and will not let the thief break into
their
house (their
domain) and steal their possessions.
As for you, then, be on guard against the world. Prepare yourselves
with
great strength,
so the robbers can't find a way to get to you, for the trouble you
expect
will come.
Let there be among you a person who understands.
When the crop ripened, he came quickly carrying a sickle and
harvested it.
Anyone here
with two good ears had better listen!
.....................................
21 Mary Magdalene asked Jesus:
What are your disciples like?
He said:
They are like children
settled in a field not theirs.
When the owners of the field
approach them, and order,
Give us back our field!
They will be naked before them,
and will hand it over.
So i say to you:
If a householder is aware
that a thief is coming,
he will await his arrival,
block his way into the house,
The kingdom, and so protect his property.
Be wary of the world.
Gird your loins in strength
So that no robbers enter,
For the benefits you expect will be found:
may there wise among you a man of understanding.
When the fruit is ripening,
he comes with his swift sickle, and reaps.
He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
.........................
21. Mariamº says to Y'shua: Whom are thy Disciples like? || He
says:
They
are like little
children who are sojourning in a field which is not theirs. When the
owners
of the field
come, they will say: Leave our field to us! They take off their
clothing in
front of them in
order to yield it to them and to give back their field to them.
Therefore I
say, if the
householder ascertains that the thief is coming, he will be alert
before he
arrives and will
not allow him to dig thru into the house of his domain to carry away
his
belongings. Yet
you, beware of the systemº--gird up your loins with great strength
lest the
bandits find a
way to reach you, for they will find the advantage which you
anticipate.
Let there be
among you a person of awareness--when the fruit ripened, he came
quickly
with his sickle
in his hand,* he reaped it. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear!
...........................
(21)
(1) Mary said to Jesus: "Whom are your disciples like?"
(2) He said: "They are like servants who are entrusted with a field
that is
not theirs.
(3) When the owners of the field arrive, they will say: `Let us have
our
field.'
(4) (But) they are naked in their presence so as to let them have it
(and thus) to give them their field."
(5) "That is why I say: `When the master of the house learns that
the
thief
is about to come, he will be on guard before he comes (and) will not
let him
break into his house, his domain, to carry away his possessions.'
(6) (But) you, be on guard against the world!
(7) Gird your loins with great strength,
so that the robbers will not find a way to get to you."
(8) "For the necessities for which you wait (with longing) will be
found.
(9) There ought to be a wise person among you!
(10) When the fruit was ripe, he came quickly with his sickle in his
hand,
(and) he harvested it.
(11) Whoever has ears to hear should hear."
21 - Mary said to Jesus, "What are your disciples like?"
He said, They are like little children living in a field that is not
theirs. when the owners of
the field come, they will say, "Give us back our field." They take
off
their clothes in front of
them in order to give it back to them, and they return their field
to
them.
For this reason I say, if the owners of a house know that a thief is
coming, they will be on
guard before the thief arrives and will not let the thief break into
their
house (their
domain) and steal their possessions.
As for you, then, be on guard against the world. Prepare yourselves
with
great strength,
so the robbers can't find a way to get to you, for the trouble you
expect
will come.
Let there be among you a person who understands.
When the crop ripened, he came quickly carrying a sickle and
harvested it.
Anyone here
with two good ears had better listen!
....................................
21 - Mary said to Jesus, "What are your disciples like?"
He said, They are like little children living in a field that is not
theirs. when the owners of
the field come, they will say, "Give us back our field." They take
off
their clothes in front of
them in order to give it back to them, and they return their field
to
them.
For this reason I say, if the owners of a house know that a thief is
coming, they will be on
guard before the thief arrives and will not let the thief break into
their
house (their
domain) and steal their possessions.
As for you, then, be on guard against the world. Prepare yourselves
with
great strength,
so the robbers can't find a way to get to you, for the trouble you
expect
will come.
Let there be among you a person who understands.
When the crop ripened, he came quickly carrying a sickle and
harvested it.
Anyone here
with two good ears had better listen!
.....................................
21 Mary Magdalene asked Jesus:
What are your disciples like?
He said:
They are like children
settled in a field not theirs.
When the owners of the field
approach them, and order,
Give us back our field!
They will be naked before them,
and will hand it over.
So i say to you:
If a householder is aware
that a thief is coming,
he will await his arrival,
block his way into the house,
The kingdom, and so protect his property.
Be wary of the world.
Gird your loins in strength
So that no robbers enter,
For the benefits you expect will be found:
may there wise among you a man of understanding.
When the fruit is ripening,
he comes with his swift sickle, and reaps.
He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
.........................
21. Mariamº says to Y'shua: Whom are thy Disciples like? || He
says:
They
are like little
children who are sojourning in a field which is not theirs. When the
owners
of the field
come, they will say: Leave our field to us! They take off their
clothing in
front of them in
order to yield it to them and to give back their field to them.
Therefore I
say, if the
householder ascertains that the thief is coming, he will be alert
before he
arrives and will
not allow him to dig thru into the house of his domain to carry away
his
belongings. Yet
you, beware of the systemº--gird up your loins with great strength
lest the
bandits find a
way to reach you, for they will find the advantage which you
anticipate.
Let there be
among you a person of awareness--when the fruit ripened, he came
quickly
with his sickle
in his hand,* he reaped it. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear!
...........................
(21)
(1) Mary said to Jesus: "Whom are your disciples like?"
(2) He said: "They are like servants who are entrusted with a field
that is
not theirs.
(3) When the owners of the field arrive, they will say: `Let us have
our
field.'
(4) (But) they are naked in their presence so as to let them have it
(and thus) to give them their field."
(5) "That is why I say: `When the master of the house learns that
the
thief
is about to come, he will be on guard before he comes (and) will not
let him
break into his house, his domain, to carry away his possessions.'
(6) (But) you, be on guard against the world!
(7) Gird your loins with great strength,
so that the robbers will not find a way to get to you."
(8) "For the necessities for which you wait (with longing) will be
found.
(9) There ought to be a wise person among you!
(10) When the fruit was ripe, he came quickly with his sickle in his
hand,
(and) he harvested it.
(11) Whoever has ears to hear should hear."
gnostic ken
Nov 23, 2012, 8:43:19 AM11/23/12
to gnost...@googlegroups.com
Tue Dec 9, 2003 7:15 am, I said:
This is the Christ saying you are in the world but you are not of the
world.
This is the Christ saying you are in the world but you are not of the
world.
Sep 11, 2006 09:56 PDT, Gnostic Tom said:
Judas held the money bag in the garden.
He had just been paid 30 pieces of silver.
His bag was secure in his pocket.
Then someone grabbed him and he had to
run away naked without his money bag.
The Romans (Hadrian) came and took back their
field (Jerusalem) and left the Jews destitute,
exiled, without a home anymore.
I think this giving up of trying to control
the physical "kingdom" and leaving it all behind
in the quest for the spiritual "kingdom" is what
is being noted here. In the ancient mind
"naked" meant "ascetic", as in having given up
on worldly pursuits.
Sun Oct 12, 2003, Steve said:
The crassly materialistic world-view is a nice place to visit, but
I wouldn't want to live there. -Steve W.
Sep 12, 2006 16:48 PDT, Gnostic Tom said:
Adam and Eve put on clothes and left Paradise.
Christians take off clothes to be baptized
into belonging to Paradise once again.
Adam was forbidden to partake of Tree of Life
for fear he would partake of the fruit of
immortality.
Jesus was staked to the Tree of Life
and distributed the fruit of immortality.
Adam and Eve had to be exiled from Eden.
Jesus leads the chosen to the new Promised Land.
Eve gave Adam fruit that was bad for him.
Mary gave Jesus an anointing that made him Christ.
Lots of parallel symbolism at play.
Sep 13, 2006 05:41 PDT, Gnostic Tom said:
The Hymn of the Pearl (in Acts of Thomas)
tells of a prince who has gone to Egypt
to recover a pearl and return to his kingdom.
In Egypt he forgets and starts dressing like
an Egyptian. Once he remembers his true
origin and purpose he takes off the Egyptian
clothes and returns to his kingdom. I think
there may be a parallel of this idea with this
verse in Thomas. By the way, the Hymn of the
Pearl and Thomas were both written in Edessa
as was the Odes of Solomon. These texts tend
to cast light on each other if read together
in a short span of time.
Sep 11, 2006 14:13 PDT, slvan- said:
a.) We have to question if the owners are actually the owners, and not some usurper. Like the gnostic OT god.
b.) Either way, being clothed with robes (a la the Hymn of the Robe of Glory) is something that could be implied that will later happen -- if/when the real owners show up.
c.) Or, again, a la the Hymn of the Robe of Glory, their being without clothes could be like the son (in the Hymn) taking off his Heavenly (living) Robe, and departing to the far country. (To, later, receive his beautiful/light-filled robe back again.)
d.) Or these are the worldly clothes (a la the clothing of the Egyptians in the above Hymn) that the children are shedding...
Sorry; looks like I said much the same thing in each of the above...
Scott V.
Sep 12, 2006 21:28 PDT, slvan- said:
How 'bout this too:
The prohibition of partaking of the Tree of Life is a paradox, in that as
soon as one is ready (after having been awaken) one CAN and MUST partake...
but it is fruitless (pun intended) to try when one is asleep... or not
mature... or without gnosis (experiential knowledge of the heart).
Scott V.
Sep 14, 2006 16:06 PDT, Richard said:
Breaking off the topic a bit. It seems to me that these gnostic writings
sound a lot like the words of "Don Juan", from the books of Castaneda.
Revealing mysterys to the unready would probably do them no good or just
sound like noise. Is Don Juan a gnostic without having any reference to
western religions?
Judas held the money bag in the garden.
He had just been paid 30 pieces of silver.
His bag was secure in his pocket.
Then someone grabbed him and he had to
run away naked without his money bag.
The Romans (Hadrian) came and took back their
field (Jerusalem) and left the Jews destitute,
exiled, without a home anymore.
I think this giving up of trying to control
the physical "kingdom" and leaving it all behind
in the quest for the spiritual "kingdom" is what
is being noted here. In the ancient mind
"naked" meant "ascetic", as in having given up
on worldly pursuits.
Sun Oct 12, 2003, Steve said:
The crassly materialistic world-view is a nice place to visit, but
I wouldn't want to live there. -Steve W.
Sep 12, 2006 16:48 PDT, Gnostic Tom said:
Adam and Eve put on clothes and left Paradise.
Christians take off clothes to be baptized
into belonging to Paradise once again.
Adam was forbidden to partake of Tree of Life
for fear he would partake of the fruit of
immortality.
Jesus was staked to the Tree of Life
and distributed the fruit of immortality.
Adam and Eve had to be exiled from Eden.
Jesus leads the chosen to the new Promised Land.
Eve gave Adam fruit that was bad for him.
Mary gave Jesus an anointing that made him Christ.
Lots of parallel symbolism at play.
Sep 13, 2006 05:41 PDT, Gnostic Tom said:
The Hymn of the Pearl (in Acts of Thomas)
tells of a prince who has gone to Egypt
to recover a pearl and return to his kingdom.
In Egypt he forgets and starts dressing like
an Egyptian. Once he remembers his true
origin and purpose he takes off the Egyptian
clothes and returns to his kingdom. I think
there may be a parallel of this idea with this
verse in Thomas. By the way, the Hymn of the
Pearl and Thomas were both written in Edessa
as was the Odes of Solomon. These texts tend
to cast light on each other if read together
in a short span of time.
Sep 11, 2006 14:13 PDT, slvan- said:
a.) We have to question if the owners are actually the owners, and not some usurper. Like the gnostic OT god.
b.) Either way, being clothed with robes (a la the Hymn of the Robe of Glory) is something that could be implied that will later happen -- if/when the real owners show up.
c.) Or, again, a la the Hymn of the Robe of Glory, their being without clothes could be like the son (in the Hymn) taking off his Heavenly (living) Robe, and departing to the far country. (To, later, receive his beautiful/light-filled robe back again.)
d.) Or these are the worldly clothes (a la the clothing of the Egyptians in the above Hymn) that the children are shedding...
Sorry; looks like I said much the same thing in each of the above...
Scott V.
Sep 12, 2006 21:28 PDT, slvan- said:
How 'bout this too:
The prohibition of partaking of the Tree of Life is a paradox, in that as
soon as one is ready (after having been awaken) one CAN and MUST partake...
but it is fruitless (pun intended) to try when one is asleep... or not
mature... or without gnosis (experiential knowledge of the heart).
Scott V.
Sep 14, 2006 16:06 PDT, Richard said:
Breaking off the topic a bit. It seems to me that these gnostic writings
sound a lot like the words of "Don Juan", from the books of Castaneda.
Revealing mysterys to the unready would probably do them no good or just
sound like noise. Is Don Juan a gnostic without having any reference to
western religions?
11 Mar, 11, Clive said:
We are carnal, our 5 senses are recepters not transmitters and I see our desires as for receiving not giving. The creator and his kingdom I see as transmitting or giving and not receiving, the total oposite of our own nature.
The field I see as the nature of the Creator, a quality that doesn't belong to us.
For us to attain a spiritual nature we need to strip off our egoism, our selfish desires by replacing them with caring desires for neighbours, with the intention that we are doing it for the sake and love of the Creator.
From Matt -
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
To love the Creator and to love our neighbour. I believe that our entrance into a spiritual state of being depends entirely on us being able to acheive these two things.
The field I see as the nature of the Creator, a quality that doesn't belong to us.
For us to attain a spiritual nature we need to strip off our egoism, our selfish desires by replacing them with caring desires for neighbours, with the intention that we are doing it for the sake and love of the Creator.
From Matt -
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
To love the Creator and to love our neighbour. I believe that our entrance into a spiritual state of being depends entirely on us being able to acheive these two things.
12 Mar, 11, Clive said:
Hi Ken
Funny isn't it, We both read the same passage and came up with oposit thoughts about it.
Your thoughts are that the field is this world and we(or the disciples) are not of this world.
My thoughts were that the field was the kingdom of God and that we are not of that world(yet).
Funny isn't it, We both read the same passage and came up with oposit thoughts about it.
Your thoughts are that the field is this world and we(or the disciples) are not of this world.
My thoughts were that the field was the kingdom of God and that we are not of that world(yet).
13 Mar, 11, I replied:
I sometimes come up with completely different thoughts just by myself. I like to use these passages as a sort of word association exercise and write whatever comes to mind, but sometimes I do try to put then in historical context and try to guess what the authors meant. Depends on my mood.
But what I really love is seeing what others come up with.
Ken
But what I really love is seeing what others come up with.
Ken
gnostic ken
Nov 25, 2012, 10:56:54 AM11/25/12
to gnost...@googlegroups.com
Mon May 17, 2010 2:20 pm, Sam said:
Gist of GoT 21;
Cast off persona, be life*... living.
Eschew Theo-fleas, be life*... living.
Spiflicate "Me-first", be life*... living.
* = whatever icon preferred.
itso,
philo
Cast off persona, be life*... living.
Eschew Theo-fleas, be life*... living.
Spiflicate "Me-first", be life*... living.
* = whatever icon preferred.
itso,
philo
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