Gospel of Thomas Saying 28
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gnostic ken
Dec 9, 2012, 3:48:39 PM12/9/12
to gnost...@googlegroups.com
What does this saying mean to you?
"I took my stand in the midst of the world,
and in flesh I appeared to them.
I found them all drunk, and I did not find any of them thirsty.
My soul ached for the children of humanity,
because they are blind in their hearts and do not see,
for they came into the world empty,
and they also seek to depart from the world empty.
But meanwhile they are drunk.
When they shake off their wine,
then they will change their ways."
.................................
28) "I took my place in the midst of the world,
and I appeared to them in the flesh.
I found all of them intoxicated; I found none of them thirsty.
And My soul became afflicted for the sons of men,
because they are blind in their hearts and do not have sight;
for empty they came into the world,
and empty too they seek to leave the world.
But for the moment they are intoxicated.
When they shake off their wine, then they will repent."
....................................
28.) I stood In the midst of the world,
and i found everyone drunk,
and none thirsty.
Then my soul was sorry
for all the sons of men,
because they are blind in their hearts.
They cannot realize that they have come
empty into the world,
and must leave it empty.
Now they are drunk,
But when they renounce the wine,
they will repent.
.........................
28. I stood in the midst of the world,
and incarnateº I appeared to them.
I found them all drunk, I found none among them athirst.
And my soul was grieved for the sons of men,
for they are blind in their hearts and do not see
that empty they have come into the world and that empty
they are destined to come forth again from the world.
However, now they are drunk--
when they have shaken off their wine, then shall they rethinkº.
.........................
(28) "I stood in the middle of the world, and in flesh I appeared to them.
(2) I found all of them drunk. None of them did I find thirsty.
(3) And my soul ached for the children of humanity, because they are blind in their heart, and they cannot see; for they came into the world empty, (and) they also seek to depart from the world empty.
(4) But now they are drunk. (But) when they shake off their wine, then they will change their mind."
........................
28
The world is intoxicated
JESUS said, "I stood at rest in the midst of the world.
And unto them I was shown forth incarnate;
I found them all intoxicated. And I found none of them thirsty.
And my soul was pained for the children of humankind,
for they are blind in their hearts and cannot see.
For, empty did they enter the world, and again empty
they seek to leave the world. But now they are intoxicated.
When they shake off their wine then they will have a change
of heart."
"I took my stand in the midst of the world,
and in flesh I appeared to them.
I found them all drunk, and I did not find any of them thirsty.
My soul ached for the children of humanity,
because they are blind in their hearts and do not see,
for they came into the world empty,
and they also seek to depart from the world empty.
But meanwhile they are drunk.
When they shake off their wine,
then they will change their ways."
.................................
28) "I took my place in the midst of the world,
and I appeared to them in the flesh.
I found all of them intoxicated; I found none of them thirsty.
And My soul became afflicted for the sons of men,
because they are blind in their hearts and do not have sight;
for empty they came into the world,
and empty too they seek to leave the world.
But for the moment they are intoxicated.
When they shake off their wine, then they will repent."
....................................
28.) I stood In the midst of the world,
and i found everyone drunk,
and none thirsty.
Then my soul was sorry
for all the sons of men,
because they are blind in their hearts.
They cannot realize that they have come
empty into the world,
and must leave it empty.
Now they are drunk,
But when they renounce the wine,
they will repent.
.........................
28. I stood in the midst of the world,
and incarnateº I appeared to them.
I found them all drunk, I found none among them athirst.
And my soul was grieved for the sons of men,
for they are blind in their hearts and do not see
that empty they have come into the world and that empty
they are destined to come forth again from the world.
However, now they are drunk--
when they have shaken off their wine, then shall they rethinkº.
.........................
(28) "I stood in the middle of the world, and in flesh I appeared to them.
(2) I found all of them drunk. None of them did I find thirsty.
(3) And my soul ached for the children of humanity, because they are blind in their heart, and they cannot see; for they came into the world empty, (and) they also seek to depart from the world empty.
(4) But now they are drunk. (But) when they shake off their wine, then they will change their mind."
........................
28
The world is intoxicated
JESUS said, "I stood at rest in the midst of the world.
And unto them I was shown forth incarnate;
I found them all intoxicated. And I found none of them thirsty.
And my soul was pained for the children of humankind,
for they are blind in their hearts and cannot see.
For, empty did they enter the world, and again empty
they seek to leave the world. But now they are intoxicated.
When they shake off their wine then they will have a change
of heart."
gnostic ken
Dec 20, 2012, 2:52:16 PM12/20/12
to gnost...@googlegroups.com
Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:52 pm, penndragon@... said:
A basic statement of how many are drunk or intoxicated with their own
worldly views and have no wish to change them or go beyond as I see it.
MP
PEnn
Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:37 am, I said:
The Christ can only speak to those who are ready for it. If their
plan for this incarnation does not include listening to the Christ
they will not hear it.
Fri Mar 7, 2008 12:30 am, Damaeus said:
> I found them all drunk, and I did not find any of them thirsty.
> My soul ached for the children of humanity,
> because they are blind in their hearts and do not see,
> for they came into the world empty,
> and they also seek to depart from the world empty.
> But meanwhile they are drunk.
> When they shake off their wine,
> then they will change their ways."
But meanwhile they are drunk.
When they shake off their wine,
A basic statement of how many are drunk or intoxicated with their own
worldly views and have no wish to change them or go beyond as I see it.
MP
PEnn
Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:37 am, I said:
The Christ can only speak to those who are ready for it. If their
plan for this incarnation does not include listening to the Christ
they will not hear it.
Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:49 am "Steve" ; wrote:
We are drunk with the material liquer of Pleasure and Pain.
Becoming sober is transcending Happy Hour. -Steve W.
Oct 03, 2006 08:01 PDT, Gnostic Tom said:
reminded of the old zen story
where a disciple came to a zen master to learn,
and the master said, would you like some tea?
the disciple said yes. the master poured tea
into a cup until it was overflowing, continuing
to pour tea spilling it onto the table. the
disciple gasped, stop pouring the cup is now full.
the master said, you are like this cup, full of
ideas with no room for new ideas, empty yourself
and come back.
=====================================
Thomas Ragland (Gnostic Tom)
"So little time, so much to unlearn."
http://www.geocities.com/gnostictom/
=====================================
Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:16 pm, I said:
The Christ can only speak to those who are ready for it. If their
plan for this incarnation does not include listening to the Christ
they will not hear it.
We are drunk with the material liquer of Pleasure and Pain.
Becoming sober is transcending Happy Hour. -Steve W.
Oct 03, 2006 08:01 PDT, Gnostic Tom said:
reminded of the old zen story
where a disciple came to a zen master to learn,
and the master said, would you like some tea?
the disciple said yes. the master poured tea
into a cup until it was overflowing, continuing
to pour tea spilling it onto the table. the
disciple gasped, stop pouring the cup is now full.
the master said, you are like this cup, full of
ideas with no room for new ideas, empty yourself
and come back.
=====================================
Thomas Ragland (Gnostic Tom)
"So little time, so much to unlearn."
http://www.geocities.com/gnostictom/
=====================================
Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:16 pm, I said:
The Christ can only speak to those who are ready for it. If their
plan for this incarnation does not include listening to the Christ
they will not hear it.
Oct 04, 2006 14:26 PDT, I added:
I'm not sure about the "plan for this incarnation" part
anymore. I guess I would now say that the Christ, the inner quite
voice, can only speak to those who can hear it.
Ken
I'm not sure about the "plan for this incarnation" part
anymore. I guess I would now say that the Christ, the inner quite
voice, can only speak to those who can hear it.
Ken
Thu Mar 6, 2008 1:16 pm, "nely van seventer" said:
Jesus says he found all people intoxicated - I think, quite conventionally,
that this means he found them all busy with wordly affairs and our daily
ratrace. Blinded by materialism, getting high on it, so to speak. Consumed
by consuming ;-)
Not one was thirsty, for the Living Water, I presume, for enlightenment. For
the 'fountain of renewal' living in everyone's hearts.
People have empty heads and most of them do not change so much in their
lives.The last sentence speaks for itself: stop the ratrace, get some rest
and become yourself.
Excuse me for my English, the reason I do not post so much to this list is
that English is not my mothertongue.
Ennys
Jesus says he found all people intoxicated - I think, quite conventionally,
that this means he found them all busy with wordly affairs and our daily
ratrace. Blinded by materialism, getting high on it, so to speak. Consumed
by consuming ;-)
Not one was thirsty, for the Living Water, I presume, for enlightenment. For
the 'fountain of renewal' living in everyone's hearts.
People have empty heads and most of them do not change so much in their
lives.The last sentence speaks for itself: stop the ratrace, get some rest
and become yourself.
Excuse me for my English, the reason I do not post so much to this list is
that English is not my mothertongue.
Ennys
Fri Mar 7, 2008 12:30 am, Damaeus said:
> I found them all drunk, and I did not find any of them thirsty.
They were drunk, meaning their imaginations were convoluted, thinking of
schemes to make the physical consensus reality more to their liking. They
didn't thirst for the perfection they could find in the purity of their own
imaginations.
schemes to make the physical consensus reality more to their liking. They
didn't thirst for the perfection they could find in the purity of their own
imaginations.
> My soul ached for the children of humanity,
> because they are blind in their hearts and do not see,
Their hearts were concerned with things of consensus reality. They couldn't
see that this world is the illusion, and that reality is actually in the
kingdom of god, otherwise known as the imagination.
see that this world is the illusion, and that reality is actually in the
kingdom of god, otherwise known as the imagination.
> for they came into the world empty,
They came to the world with a clean imagination.
> and they also seek to depart from the world empty.
They waste their imaginations laying up treasures on earth that will
eventually be lost, instead of filling their imaginations with things that
will bring them eternal happiness, otherwise known as laying up treasures in
heaven.
eventually be lost, instead of filling their imaginations with things that
will bring them eternal happiness, otherwise known as laying up treasures in
heaven.
> But meanwhile they are drunk.
> When they shake off their wine,
> then they will change their ways."
The wine represents the opportunities for lusts of the physical world. When
they realize that the physical world will not last forever, they will no
longer be drunk, and they will realize the wisdom of spending time in
meditation and constructing the new reality of imagination they will enjoy
forever.
Damaeus
Fri Mar 7, 2008 11:13 am, Steve said:
Steve: "Another bar, beer-tender!"
The Living Jesus: "Sheesh! You've had enough! I'm cutting
you off!"
Steve: (looking up while laying on the bar)"You are the tallest
bar-tender I have ever seen!"
The Living Jesus: "Aw, hell! Am I gonna have to call you a cab?"
Of course, the key here is that we come into the world "empty"
and we leave the world "empty".
Steve: "Hey! my glass is Empty! Whoa! Heavy, dude!"
The Living Jesus: "That's it! Out you go, buddy!"
;-) Steve
they realize that the physical world will not last forever, they will no
longer be drunk, and they will realize the wisdom of spending time in
meditation and constructing the new reality of imagination they will enjoy
forever.
Damaeus
Fri Mar 7, 2008 11:13 am, Steve said:
Steve: "Another bar, beer-tender!"
The Living Jesus: "Sheesh! You've had enough! I'm cutting
you off!"
Steve: (looking up while laying on the bar)"You are the tallest
bar-tender I have ever seen!"
The Living Jesus: "Aw, hell! Am I gonna have to call you a cab?"
Of course, the key here is that we come into the world "empty"
and we leave the world "empty".
Steve: "Hey! my glass is Empty! Whoa! Heavy, dude!"
The Living Jesus: "That's it! Out you go, buddy!"
;-) Steve
Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:27 am, "pendarvis28" said:
It is saying to me what many of us find. We come into this world empty of
experience and understanding and we have to learn about things by observing them
and questioning them. But some prefer to get drunk on trivialities in a one
track mind, and consequently they do not learn about anything else. They tend to
try and quench an insatiable hunger from a diet of experience which never feeds
them and fulfils them. There is nothing new in this observation and many have
always known it from days of old thousands of years ago.
Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:35 pm, I said:
I, the Christ within
am within your bodies,
but most cannot experience me and do not even know they are missing anything.
I would love to make myself known
because then you would not fear death.
When you quit focusing only on the material, you will change.
IMO.
Ken
It is saying to me what many of us find. We come into this world empty of
experience and understanding and we have to learn about things by observing them
and questioning them. But some prefer to get drunk on trivialities in a one
track mind, and consequently they do not learn about anything else. They tend to
try and quench an insatiable hunger from a diet of experience which never feeds
them and fulfils them. There is nothing new in this observation and many have
always known it from days of old thousands of years ago.
Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:35 pm, I said:
I, the Christ within
am within your bodies,
but most cannot experience me and do not even know they are missing anything.
I would love to make myself known
because then you would not fear death.
When you quit focusing only on the material, you will change.
IMO.
Ken
Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:33 pm, Sam said:
Folk with snoot-full of Religious creed...
the-counsel-of-conscience... seldom heed.
When dogma eschewed... gnosis is freed.
itso,
philo
the-counsel-of-conscience... seldom heed.
When dogma eschewed... gnosis is freed.
itso,
philo
Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:51 am, Gnostic Tom said:
Paramore has this song out that goes "that's what you get when you let your heart win".
getting past the head games to feeling the real deal,
it may not be rational, it may be painful, but it is booty in hand real.
I run away from people who have it all figured out in their heads.
tom
getting past the head games to feeling the real deal,
it may not be rational, it may be painful, but it is booty in hand real.
I run away from people who have it all figured out in their heads.
tom
Sun Sep 5, 2010 5:25 pm, Oregon George said:
This is my first posting on this forum. I hope you will forgive my tendency to
be a bit wordy. I love the eloquence and conciseness of Philo and the precision
you all display. It will be a challenge, but I will try my best to keep my
posts trim.
It's interesting to me that Jesus here provides an answer to spiritual blindness
that doesn't involve supplication, making amends, ritualized meditation,
sacrifice or doing any of the many overt techniques so often promoted by
religion. It seems to me that he deliberately chooses an image, that of shaking
off the effects of the wine, that suggests a simple letting go of what is not
native to man's essential nature. The wine represents that which artificially
distorts the mind, hides reality behind a cloud, and distracts attention away
from truth. And this wine also represents the world of perception and of form.
Just let it go, he says. Don't go back for more. Shake it off. Get free of it
and then see how differently things will look.
George
be a bit wordy. I love the eloquence and conciseness of Philo and the precision
you all display. It will be a challenge, but I will try my best to keep my
posts trim.
It's interesting to me that Jesus here provides an answer to spiritual blindness
that doesn't involve supplication, making amends, ritualized meditation,
sacrifice or doing any of the many overt techniques so often promoted by
religion. It seems to me that he deliberately chooses an image, that of shaking
off the effects of the wine, that suggests a simple letting go of what is not
native to man's essential nature. The wine represents that which artificially
distorts the mind, hides reality behind a cloud, and distracts attention away
from truth. And this wine also represents the world of perception and of form.
Just let it go, he says. Don't go back for more. Shake it off. Get free of it
and then see how differently things will look.
George
26 Apr 11, Clive said:
This saying makes me think of a point in my heart, a desire for the spiritual thats in the midst of all of my other drunken desires. This one small point,lets call it Christ against the rest of my inner world.
Still theres hope, with the help of this inner Christ I can shake off the drunkenness.
Still theres hope, with the help of this inner Christ I can shake off the drunkenness.
27 Apr 11, Clive said:
What love this is.
To be Christlike, I guess that we too need to feel a love for humanity that causes us to have an aching heart when we see no thirst in people.
How easy it is to ignore such people without casting a care, just focusing on our own hunger and thirst for rightiousness.
I'd love to be able to say that I have as much concern or even more for humanities well being than I have for my own, so that my soul would ache for others lack instead of just aching because of my own shortcomings.
Sometimes I get a glimpse of this but its soon swallowed up by self concern.
To be Christlike, I guess that we too need to feel a love for humanity that causes us to have an aching heart when we see no thirst in people.
How easy it is to ignore such people without casting a care, just focusing on our own hunger and thirst for rightiousness.
I'd love to be able to say that I have as much concern or even more for humanities well being than I have for my own, so that my soul would ache for others lack instead of just aching because of my own shortcomings.
Sometimes I get a glimpse of this but its soon swallowed up by self concern.
29 Apr 11, Clive said:
I found them all drunk,--
But meanwhile they are drunk.
When they shake off their wine,
Its a little ironic that Christs first miracle is to turn water into wine.
At least it shows not to take the literal meaning of words and that a word, in this case wine can have opposing definitions
At least it shows not to take the literal meaning of words and that a word, in this case wine can have opposing definitions
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