Gospel of Thomas Saying 111

[gnostic ken]

Gospel of Thomas Saying 111

What does Saying 111 mean to you?

111 Jesus said, "The heavens and the earth will roll up in your presence, and whoever is living from the living one will not see death."

Does not Jesus say, "Those who have found themselves, of them the world is not worthy"?

................................

111) Jesus said, "The heavens and the earth will be rolled up in

your presence. And one who lives from the Living One will not see

death." Does not Jesus say, "Whoever finds himself is superior to the

world?"

............................

111.)

The heavens will be rolled back, and the earth unfurled

before your eyes.The Living One out of The Living One sees

neither death nor fear, for Jesus says the world is unworthy

of the man who finds themselves.

.............................

111. Y'shua says: The sky and the earth shall be rolled up in your presence. And

he who lives from within the Living-One shall see neither death [nor fear]--for

Y'shua says: Whoever finds himself, of him the world is not worthy.

.............................

(111) Jesus says:

(1) "The heavens will roll up before you, and the earth.

(2) And whoever is living from the living one will not see death."

(3) Does not Jesus say: "Whoever has found himself, of him the world is not worthy"?

http://www.westarinstitute.org/Polebridge/Excerpts/thomas.html

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm

http://www.ntgateway.com/noncanonical-texts/gospel-of-thomas/

[gnostic ken]

Mon Nov 17, 2003 7:23 am, I said:
This looks like a description of the Gnostic experience.

When you experience the Gnosis you will realize there is no such
thing as death.

Reality is much, much better than physical reality alone.

Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:42 am, Gnostic Tom said:
before gnosis
the heavens (superstitions about "God" and such)
and the earth (traditions of people)
define and control the rolled out "reality" we live in

after gnosis
the heavens and the earth roll up and are put
in their place and we stand alone
with a life that is beyond death, beyond judgment.

Gnostic Tom


Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:59 pm, P3nn replied to Tom:
MM Tom

I see another meaning to "roll up" as well. Just as when someone rolls up at
your place, i.e. arrives ;)

MP
p3nn

Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:25 am, Rosalie said:
Talking about enlightenment again, IMO. To gnow the Truth of yourself will
allow you to experience that Truth.

Rosalie

Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:51 pm, gravy8654 said:
To me this goes beyond the physical, what we see and experience when we come to
true knowledge. These things will roll up and reveal the truth

Those who are living what they think is the real world will see and be afraid of
death but those who are really living will not fear

Some people will just never allow themselves to understand, but those who are
blessed enough to come to the steps of the beginning of gnosis should, in my
eyes be happy and blesses

Clint

Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:04 pm, I said:
Hi Clint,
I disagree.

I think most people are unable to understand.

It's not that they don't get It, it's that they can't get It, IMO.

I think it is like math for example. Some people can do some math, some are
great at math and some cannot get much past counting on their fingers.

IMO, Gnosis is the same way. Some can access some Gnosis, some can really access
Gnosis, and some just can't.

Ken

Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:50 pm, gravy8654 said:
Good point, all the more reason for those who do to feel blessed

I still feel that we all are allowed a chance but some just won't go there, if
you will. It's not that they can't get past the counting on their fingers, they
just need to take more time and learn in their own way but it just seems to hard
or useless so they give up

Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:57 am, I said:
Hi Clint,
I know you mean well, but saying all can but some are too lazy sounds like a
Gnostic version of Christian blame throwing to me.

Ken

Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:51 pm, gravy8654 said:
I didn't
mean that they were lazy but that some are too afraid to venture out of that box
they create. Some will never get there because they won't allow it to happen

Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:26 pm, I said:
Hi Clint,
Doesn't matter. It's still throwing a guilt trip at people who, IMO, are in a
box not of their own creation.

IMO.

Ken

31 May, 12, Clive said:

We are all going to die (physically) at some point and those who have found the real self will not experience it as death.
Clive

1 Jun., 12, I said:

The discussion with Clint (gravy8654) reminds me of a show on physics I was watching two nights ago. There was this physics someone with a blackboard full of equations explaining what they meant. 
He said something like "Are you getting any of this?" Then the camera pulled back and there was a dog watching him. The narrator said "A dog cannot understand physics no matter how hard it tries because it's brain simply isn't wired to understand physics.

I think some people cannot access the reality beyond our physical reality because their brains simply are not wired to allow them to access such things.

IMO.

Ken

1 Jun., 12, Clive replied:

I guess we all see things slightly different.
I think of it more like a pyramid which we have to ascend and experience, level by level through each of our existances.
Taking us through such levels as the desire for wealth, power, honour, wisdom, eventually reaching the top of the pyramid, the desire for Spirituality.
Before we reach this top level, we can't be intterested in the spiritual.
Thats how I understand it anyway.

3 Jun., 12, I answered:

Yeah. Most people on the spiritual path see it more or less the way you see it. I am in the minority that think perhaps not everyone can get it.

Ken

[gnostic ken]

Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:29 pm, Oregon George said:
Isaiah 34:4 reads:
"All the stars of the heaven will be dissolved and the sky rolled up like a
scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like
shriveled figs from the fig tree."

Despite the similarity between these two passages, the violent language in
Isaiah is directed at "all nations," which are the enemies of Israel. Of these
nations, it says that the Lord will "totally destroy them," and "the mountains
will be soaked with their blood." In that apocalyptic scene, the sky will be
"rolled up like a scroll," signifying the end of an age, a world changing event.
In contrast, the wording in GTh 111 is wholly benign and even comforting. And
so, this saying should not be seen, as some commentators have maintained, as
having an apocalyptic connotation. Rather, it borrows the Isaiah metaphor for
its own particular purpose.

The underlying message in the preceding saying (GTh 110), that whoever finds the
truth about the world becomes spiritually rich, carries over to this saying and
is consistent with its positive assurances. There are three such assurances in
this saying and each is consistent with the other. Taking the second first,
"the one who lives from the living one will not see death." The literal
translation is: "the one who lives from the one who lives…" As I have explained
in previous essays, the living one is not Jesus in the context of this gospel. 
It appears to be the Father (GTh 3b, 37 and 50). And only in the Prologue,
which by its own admission is not a Jesus saying, is he identified as the
"living Jesus." To live by the living one (the Father) is to live in perfect
alignment with life. God's Kingdom is life, not death. The world is identified
in GTh 56 as a corpse. Therefore, the Father, being the source of life, reigns
over life and knows nothing of death or of the world. Since God exists within
man's mind, his loveliness can be projected onto the blank screen of the world,
if unencumbered by the ego, but the world is not His domain. Consequently, for
the man who releases the world and its hold on his mind, and aligns himself
entirely with God's love, the world will fade from his consciousness. "The
heavens (the physical heavens) and the earth will be rolled up in your presence"
means that the illusion we call the world will be at last clearly seen as an
illusion. Like a scroll that tells the story of man's disconnection with his
Father, it will be rolled up and set aside. What remains is pure awareness of
God's love. And death, being the physical manifestation of man's false belief
in separation, will not be seen as a death, but as the turning of a page or the
sloughing off of a skin that is no longer needed.

The third positive assurance mentioned in this trio of sayings is: "Whoever
finds himself is superior to the world." Whoever truly discovers himself, finds
himself as he was created. Though he lost his way in fear and guilt, he will
find his true Self, united with his creator and all of life. In that pristine
perfection, he is superior to the world. The world is nothing and he is
everything.

The awkward wording of this final line does not seem to affect its meaning or
the meaning of the saying as a whole. Whether this is an original denouement of
the saying or a later addition, no one can say for sure. However, it does pull
together the two preceding assurances. The one who lives from the living one
and sees the world rolled up in his presence is the one who has found himself. 
This one is, therefore, superior to the world. This is the treasure, alluded to
in other sayings, the discovery of his oneness with God. While he is ignorant
of this divine connection, he dwells in darkness.

Thank you.

George Duffy
Corvallis, OR