Scared & confused

[Whatley]

Hi all - I'm becoming increasingly aware of sites that are not
allowing younger borrowers to take graphic novels out which is a real
concern to me. This apparently stems from isolated incidents when
parents have taken issue at the books their children have borrowed.
One librarian I spoke to yesterday says that they do not allow any
child (below the age of about 14/15) to borrow any graphic novels, and
that's regardless of their suitability; this I was honestly shocked
by! I know some publishers have recommendations on the back covers re:
age suitability, but some staff are worried about getting into trouble
if a younger reader took a book out where the content was particularly
graphic. It's not possible to generalise to staff - e.g. if Batman or
Spider-man are on the cover then they're suitable for younger readers
- as the stories can sometimes be quite disturbing. Likewise, the
bright colourful covers of a series like Love & Rockets might look
appealing/innocent, but the content can be pretty explicit. Following
a complaint a few years ago we tend not to keep any graphic novel
title in our childrens sections, but this has now become counter-
productive: the kids know where to find them, but the staff won't let
them take them out.
Are you able to share your experiences with this kind of issue
(assuming you've had it)? Or, policies/procedures in place to
categorise/age-rate your collections? As much as I try, it's not
realistic for me to read every title, & then make decisions regarding
this, but I am concerned that some libraries might be refusing to
issue perfectly acceptable & (relatively!) harmless titles to a large
potential customer-base. Suggestions please!

Thanks
Graham

p.s Recently read 'Irredeemable' (vol.3), 'Batman: The Widening
Gyre', Ed Brubaker's 'Incognito' & Audrey Niffenegger's 'The Night
Bookmobile' - all good, but especially the first three.

[ANGELA]

Hi,   We only have some graphic novels in our children's section e.g. Tin Tin, adaptations of books. All the rest of the graphic novels are classed as adult. If the parent gives permission and its obvious its for the child (child tickets don't have fines) then the children can take them out.   I've tried to train all staff to inform the parents that some would be ok for their child, but there is a reason they are in the adult section. That parents should check the content first.   I hope this helps.   Angela          -------Original Message-------

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[Emily Dezurick-Badran]

Ah, the issue of graphic novel suitability for younger readers!

We have some graphic novels for or with specific appeal to children mixed into the children's library. We have a separate (and much, much larger) general graphic novel collection and a manga collection as well.

Our (general) graphic novels are classified in an interesting manner: by character (Batman, Spiderman; The Simpsons also fall under this category), by publisher (DC, Marvel) and by author (Neil Gaiman in particular). We also have large miscellaneous sections that are catagorised by title (i.e. Fables is in the A-Gs, Transmetropolitan in the S-Z). Obviously some of these titles are of more interest to younger readers than others, and some would generally be deemed unsuitable. However, I think it's tricky to start labeling books "suitable" or "unsuitable." We don't label every book in the adult Fantasy section just because Lord of the Rings is classified there. Children often read Lord of the Rings (or have it read aloud to them), but the trilogy is clearly in a general use section that will include many books with "adult" content.

I think that putting certain series together (e.g. X-Men with other X-Men, Simpsons with other Simpsons) and labeling them clearly as part of that series can help avoid problems (younger readers generally go for materials that are of interest to them; many prefer to steer clear of adult content!), and is also tremendously helpful for library patrons.

One possible solution is to simply put up a sign in the graphic novels section saying that some of the graphic novels contain mature/adult content and that if parents or younger readers are uncertain whether the graphic novel is appropriate, they can always consult a librarian.

It's important not to respond to single complaints with blanket policies. The complaints often seem to stem from parents' misunderstanding of the history of graphic novels (not just for children!) and the purpose of libraries. I think that while it's important that we listen and respond seriously to parental concerns, we cannot and should not act as censors on behalf of single members of the community.

Sorry, I've gotten a bit off topic here! I'll be interested to hear what others have to say on the subject.

Emily

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YA Library UK

[Cross,Carl (Cultural & Community Services)]

Hi Graham,

I think we've all had similar experiences - the Tank Girl incident which
was similar to your worries about L&R still resonates in Derbyshire
today. And I'm with you that refusing access to stock until the staff
consider the young person old or mature enough is unacceptable and I
would guess not consistent with stock policies already in place for
other types of stock.

It's important to remember that our role is to guide but not to decide.
Children under 8 should always be accompanied by an adult anyway and any
unaccompanied children over that age have the implicit consent of their
parents to be mature enough to decide on their own what to read. This
means that the onus is always with the parent, school or adult who is
taking on that role and never with us.

That isn't to say we won't do our best to signpost appropriate and
inappropriate stock and I recognise that this can be especially
problematic with gn stock since issue desk intervention relies heavily
on staff knowledge and attention.

Location and guiding can help though. Any gn with adult themes or
content should not be available in teen or junior areas. The problem we
have I think is that many gns that are appropriate and attractive to
children, tweens and teens are also popular with adults, including most
of us on this list I guess. Given that we don't want to encourage adults
without children browsing in teen or junior sections and that they may
well feel uncomfortable doing so what can we do?

I think the best solution is 3 collections. One especially for adults
with the really gory/sexual stuff in it (and yes I know that makes it
especially attractive to the teens but remember we are guiding and
making information available); one for children with Asterix, Tintin,
Cinebooks, younger Clone Wars that sort of thing and a third general
collection with nothing too contentious in it that appeals to all.

I know we're all going to say broadly the same things on this list but I
think this guide of discussion can help us to think about our arguments
for parents, teachers and colleagues who aren't so comics-friendly.

I was lucky enough to be given a small pot of money to buy GNs for
younger readers picking up the usual suspects and Mouse Guard and a
couple of others which have slipped my mind.

Good luck with your staff awareness Graham.

Carl.

Ps: As an aside this made me think of my furtive reading of When they
Wind Blows in my local library when I was 8 or so. I didn't think they
would let me borrow it or even read it since it was in the adult section
so I found myself a dark corner and read the whole, powerful thing in
one sitting. I wonder if that book would be so important to me had I
been "allowed" to read it?

-----Original Message-----
From: gnl...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gnl...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Whatley
Sent: 19 May 2011 12:39
To: Graphic Novels in Libraries UK
Subject: [GNLIBUK] Scared & confused

Thanks
Graham

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[Whatley]

Thanks for that. I know that checking with parents does happen, but in
some of the community libraries children aged 9+ do come in on their
own, or with friends/older siblings. All that could happen then is to
ask the child directly, "Would your Mum/Dad mind you borrowing that?
It looks a bit scary" (lame I know, but it's a way in). Having said
that, I don't believe any child would answer in the negative, but I
suppose at least we're asking?

Graham

> com/group/gnlibuk?hl=en.
>
>
>
>  stampa_girl_line_en.gif
> 61KViewDownload

[Whatley]

Thanks for the response. I don't mind the idea of having a sign next
to the section. I want to gather as much evidence/good practice &
suggestions as possible to deal with this issue before I take it to
senior management. And then (hopefully) I'll get the opportunity to
educate/inform/reassure staff in the libraries where this is a
problem.

Graham

> <graham.what...@leicester.gov.uk>wrote:

> *
> *
> DezurickBadran.com <http://www.dezurickbadran.com>
> YA Library UK <http://yalibraryuk.wordpress.com/>

[Whatley]

Hi Carl

Thanks for the reply. For a time we did try to separate graphic novels
at the old Central Lending library between our children & young
people's area & the GN section next to our Adult Fiction Horror, Sci-
Fi & Fantasy, but as you can imagine staff/public were forever mixing
them up, and 16+ borrowers were always browsing the "junior" titles
anyway. So I made the decision that everything would be shelved in one
place (loans were not affected, & it made shelf-checks easier!). Now
that we've moved to our new Central Library & have a lovely GN section
in a prominent position in front of the ground-floor counter, the only
title I've forwarded to the junior section is Ben 10 (safe ground
there!). I suppose I could try to divide the strong stuff from the
less contentious titles, but as it'd be next to each other the
probability of it getting mixed up is inevitable. As I said though, I
think the main problem appears to be in the community libraries, so I
shall continue to carry out some research, & then consider a way
forward, & how then to take it to Management.

Graham

On May 20, 2:31 pm, "Cross,Carl (Cultural & Community Services)"

[ANGELA]

The parent has to tell staff themselves, and then we put a note on the child's ticket.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gnlibuk?hl=en.

[Koenig Gabrielle]

Hi Graham,

I think that this issue is one that is true of many materials, although it is harder to discern from the cover with graphic novels as compared to ordinary books.

My personal feeling is that if we've given guiding - ie marked the books as potentially having older content, it is the parent's responsibility to stop and check what their child is reading, not ours to stop them. Censorship is not a library staff member's role.

If we are asked for something specific by a child or parent and we think it not suitable for a specific child then it is our responsibility to check or to inform, but unless the govt brings in the legal restrictions it has on games and films, we should not be intervening.

Practically speaking, perhaps the most I would bring in, as has been suggested by others on the list is advising staff that they should ask the child to have a parent present when borrowing graphic novels or any other potentially inappropriate content.
ie not asking - 'Do you think your parents would mind?' But 'Where's your mum/dad/parent/carer?' why don't we check with them if it's OK? As has been pointed out the children we are most concerned with (under 11) would have to have a parent present or could easily wait till one is present with them at the library.

Best wishes

Gaby Koenig
Audience Development Officer
Slough Libraries

High Street

Slough

SL1 1EA

Library Services (Slough) Ltd | telephone: 01753 787514 | email: gabriell...@slough.gov.uk

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-----Original Message-----
From: gnl...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gnl...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Whatley
Sent: 19 May 2011 12:39

To: Graphic Novels in Libraries UK
Subject: [GNLIBUK] Scared & confused

Thanks
Graham

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[Whatley]

Thanks Gaby.

Would I be right in saying though, that (generally speaking) you
wouldn't be too concerned about young people 12+ coming in without
parents & borrowing GNs? Also, what about a teacher bringing in a
class visit of 10/11 year olds - would you warn them off borrowing GNs
even if they felt this was a way to get a reluctant reader engaged
with the library? Sorry to pose further questions; I know this one
could run & run, but I'm hoping to have a comprehensive list of
recommendations by the end of it! I'm now also gathering info from
other Leicester sites, but comments from the group have been really
helpful.

Regards
Graham

On May 23, 9:45 am, Koenig Gabrielle <Gabrielle.Koe...@slough.gov.uk>
wrote:

> Hi Graham,
>
> I think that this issue is one that is true of many materials, although it is harder to discern from the cover with graphic novels as compared to ordinary books.
>
> My personal feeling is that if we've given guiding - ie marked the books as potentially having older content, it is the parent's responsibility to stop and check what their child is reading, not ours to stop them. Censorship is not a library staff member's role.
>
> If we are asked for something specific by a child or parent and we think it not suitable for a specific child then it is our responsibility to check or to inform, but unless the govt brings in the legal restrictions it has on games and films, we should not be intervening.
>
> Practically speaking, perhaps the most I would bring in, as has been suggested by others on the list is advising staff that they should ask the child to have a parent present when borrowing graphic novels or any other potentially inappropriate content.
> ie not asking - 'Do you think your parents would mind?' But 'Where's your mum/dad/parent/carer?' why don't we check with them if it's OK? As has been pointed out the children we are most concerned with (under 11) would have to have a parent present or could easily wait till one is present with them at the library.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Gaby Koenig
> Audience Development Officer
> Slough Libraries
>
> High Street
>
> Slough
>
> SL1 1EA
>

> Library Services (Slough) Ltd | telephone: 01753 787514 | email: gabrielle.koe...@slough.gov.uk

> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/gnlibuk?hl=en.

[Koenig Gabrielle]

Children aged 12+ - I wouldn't expect anyone to intervene unless they knew the child in question and/or the GN really well.

Class visits - as we all know, legally the teacher in school (unlike the librarian) is in loco parentis. I'd say this is for the teacher to assess, they would also be more aware for example of religious or cultural issues around specific children. The teacher could also borrow of the book for the child with the proviso that the parent could check it again when they go home from school and the parent can make the final decision.
Library staff could also advise, and remind the child and teacher of the general age guidelines.
Also, let's face it a quick flick through a GN would probably give even an inexperienced member of library staff or teacher warning of any serious nudity and extreme violence regarding a *specific* graphic novel in a way that is actually far harder with a novel. In cases where the answer still needs to be 'no' alternatives could be offered - Wolves in the walls springs to mind, Asterix, Simpsons, for the youngest children there is starting to be printed easy readers with comic book characters. I've seen some great ones with Wolverine and Spiderman. There's also Boffin Boy, Captain Underpants etc.

These are my thoughts anyway!

Best wishes

Gaby Koenig
Audience Development Officer
Slough Libraries

High Street

Slough

SL1 1EA

Library Services (Slough) Ltd | telephone: 01753 787514 | email: gabriell...@slough.gov.uk

Thanks Gaby.

Regards
Graham

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gnlibuk?hl=en.

[andrewj...@googlemail.com]

Bit of a shameless Plug; But Bright Books provide a Graphic Novel Service and can provide guidance on reading ages and suitability, as well as including an age range guide sticker on the front of the graphic novel as part of the servicing process. 

[Kayleigh Herbertson]

Bloody parents, my favourite thing about comics in Libraries was that they had random adult ones thrown in.

[Koenig Gabrielle]

There are a variety of ways to go.

 

The main responsibility to my mind in a library is to signpost – this is suitable for this age, this is not. So, one suggestion would be to not lump all comics together in one location, for example, have picture books for older readers or “young Teen comics” and include your Tintins, Asterixes, Simpsons, Comic book adaptations of Alex Rider/Young Bond etc and have other comics in another section.

 

Ultimately even if all your comics are put together in a Teen or Adult zone, your responsibilities are at an end, you’ve sign posted that some content may not be suitable for a younger audience.

 

I also would recommend that rather than forbidding children to borrow certain books, why not encourage staff to ask the question to the child – do you think you should ask you parent/carer’s permission before borrowing? It won’t stop children but it puts the responsibility rightly back where it should be, with the parents.

 

In Slough as I suspect is the case in most authorities, parents are officially responsible for the children’s cards until the age of 16. This is how I would talk the issue over with the parents complaining also. If you don’t want them to borrow certain things, you need to check what your child has borrowed yourself. Restricting certain items even automatically doesn’t help. Many parents will give the child their own card to borrow items on anyway.

 

Plus let’s be realistic, before long we’ll all be stuck with self service and have NO control over what children borrow.

 

Best wishes

 

Gaby Koenig
Slough Libraries

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From: gnl...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gnl...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kayleigh Herbertson
Sent: 13 November 2013 15:45
To: gnl...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [GNLIBUK] Re: Scared & confused

 

Bloody parents, my favourite thing about comics in Libraries was that they had random adult ones thrown in.

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[Whatley]

Crikey! Nearly two and a half years on and this issue still going (I'd forgotten about it to be honest). Ironically, we did have a complaint earlier this year over a Love & Rockets title, and a decison was made (not by me) to move it to a different site. The original library site is now self-service, so as you say, how can we possibly monitor then? But, more annoyingly, we've had to switch to supplier selection (Sorry, Page 45, I miss my visits), which means we get random titles with no consideration to continuation in series etc. The hope now is that the avid and discerning reader puts a request in for missing titles when we've only been supplied with volumes 1, 3, 4, and 7. D'oh!

 

Graham