[GMCnet] How To Splice Air Line?

[A.]

On the driver's side of the '73 23' CanyonLands, The air line has been cut a few inches from the bag.
Or more specifically, before the shutoff valve. There is a shrader valve between the shutoff valve and the bag, which is currently the only way for the bag to get air.
I would like to splice it back together and see if the compressor/airtank/dash control system will work well enough to inflate the bag to raise the rear instead of using the shrader valve and an external compressor.
If it works, I want to be able to leave the splice in place for the long term.
--
'73 23' Sequoia
UA (Upper Alabama)
"Sometimes 'free' is too expensive."
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[Matt Colie]

ahamilto wrote on Mon, 19 November 2012 21:19

> On the driver's side of the '73 23' CanyonLands, The air line has been cut a few inches from the bag.
> Or more specifically, before the shutoff valve. There is a shrader valve between the shutoff valve and the bag, which is currently the only way for the bag to get air.
> I would like to splice it back together and see if the compressor/airtank/dash control system will work well enough to inflate the bag to raise the rear instead of using the shrader valve and an external compressor.
> If it works, I want to be able to leave the splice in place for the long term.

Aham,

You can buy couplers for 1/4 DOT nylon at most good parts houses. This fix would be as permanent as the air line itself. I carry two and 5 feet of line in case there is a problem that needs a quick repair.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will find
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Jim Kanomata]

We stock a splice fitting DOT approved..
Call our toll free 800-752-7502
Since we are a GMC Shop, we need to stock parts for our technicians, plus
we sell all the parts you need or refer you to others on one call.

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

[r...@gmcnet.org]

ahamilto wrote on Mon, 19 November 2012 18:19

> On the driver's side of the '73 23' CanyonLands, The air line has been cut a few inches from the bag.
> Or more specifically, before the shutoff valve. There is a shrader valve between the shutoff valve and the bag, which is currently the only way for the bag to get air.
> I would like to splice it back together and see if the compressor/airtank/dash control system will work well enough to inflate the bag to raise the rear instead of using the shrader valve and an external compressor.
> If it works, I want to be able to leave the splice in place for the long term.

If the line is cut and all you need is to connect the two pieces. The way I would do it is go to a hardware store and get a 1/4" brass compression coupling with inserts in it for plastic tubing. Then all you need to do is tighten it up like you were joining two sections of 1/4" copper tubing.
--
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook

[George Rudawsky]

They make air line fittings to splice these lines together. Any truck repair facility should have these fittings, and I would assume your local NAPA would as well.

Just be sure to get the DOT approved fittings as they are also made for other applications, but I can't imagine those would be carried at either of the above places.
--
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach

[Bruce Hart]

Mark,
You should be able to find 1/4" air line coupling at Home Depot, Ace, or
Lowes.
This is a listing from McMaster-Carrcatalog.


Couplings, Tube to Tube

For Tube
OD Each1/4"50775K301
<http://www.mcmaster.com/#50775K301>$2.225/16"50775K303<http://www.mcmaster.com/#50775K303>
2.683/8"50775K305
<http://www.mcmaster.com/#50775K305>2.681/2"50775K307<http://www.mcmaster.com/#50775K307>
2.86

--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class

[Dan Gregg]

MAtt, that is a great thing to carry on board. I have never thought about that. Will get Jim to bring me a couple of them to Dothan.
Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg


http://danandteri.blogspot.com/

[A.]

jimk wrote on Mon, 19 November 2012 20:31

> We stock a splice fitting DOT approved..
> Call our toll free 800-752-7502
> Since we are a GMC Shop, we need to stock parts for our technicians, plus we sell all the parts you need or refer you to others on one call.

Jim,

Whoever answers the phone would spend several of your overhead dollars taking the order for an item that you make pennies on.
I appreciate the offer, but I would rather call to place an order that you can make money on instead of nickel and diming you to bankruptcy.
Completely unrelated, if you have an OEM kitchen clock for a 1973 Sequioa in your boneyard, I would love to have one. A PO removed mine, and I think that is one thing that belongs in these old beauties, no matter what else you do to the interior.

[A.]

Thanks all. I thought maybe there was a kit with adhesive and a larger diameter sleeve that experts used.
I will stop at a parts house or two next time I go into town and see if they have a splice fitting.
I have done this sort of thing with refrigerator water connections, this shouldn't be any harder.

[Mike]

ahamilto wrote on Mon, 19 November 2012 22:40

> Thanks all. I thought maybe there was a kit with adhesive and a larger diameter sleeve that experts used.
> I will stop at a parts house or two next time I go into town and see if they have a splice fitting.
> I have done this sort of thing with refrigerator water connections, this shouldn't be any harder.

I used a union as shown here:

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.338f315e827b2c6315731910237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=8d247f71ad65e210VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=EN&productcategory=productline&vgnextdiv=687547&vgnextcatid=1891402&vgnextcat=PRESTOLOK+PLUS&Wtky=

Check if there is a Parker store near you.
--
Mike K.
'75 PB
Southeast Michigan

[Douglas Norton]

OK.  thanks for the input that I can use too. 


So, I have 150 pound plastic line from home depot, one DOT splice from NAPA (more pricey than the splice from home depot.) , and some line that needs splicing.  My local NAPA store is out of almost all air line stuff; no one else near by has DOT stuff.  How important is it to use DOT stuff?  I can splice existing line with either splice since I have one of each - but at least two leaks.Dare I use non DOT plastic line - I use shutoff valves so a line failure would not be catastrophic. 


If I need to use DOT, I will go to Jim as I know it will be right and the cost at NAPA is near ten dollars per splice but they are out of them.  Gene will tell me to get on board with the Bovie system and get over all my old lines etc.  I may do that but not this week.  The old girl had her 40th birthday not too many weeks ago and I think that 40 years may be the mandatory self destruct time for some components like air line. 



________________________________

[Charles Boyd]

Sir: yes you should use DOT stuff. Just a matter of safety. Any big truck or trailer shop should have the lines and fittings.







Douglas Norton wrote on Wed, 21 November 2012 08:26

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee

[r...@gmcnet.org]

C Boyd wrote on Wed, 21 November 2012 05:37

> Sir: yes you should use DOT stuff. Just a matter of safety. Any big truck or trailer shop should have the lines and fittings.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Douglas Norton wrote on Wed, 21 November 2012 08:26
> > OK.  thanks for the input that I can use too. 
> >
> >
> > So, I have 150 pound plastic line from home depot, one DOT splice from NAPA (more pricey than the splice from home depot.) , and some line that needs splicing.  My local NAPA store is out of almost all air line stuff; no one else near by has DOT stuff.  How important is it to use DOT stuff?  I can splice existing line with either splice since I have one of each - but at least two leaks.Dare I use non DOT plastic line - I use shutoff valves so a line failure would not be catastrophic. 
> >
> >
> > If I need to use DOT, I will go to Jim as I know it will be right and the cost at NAPA is near ten dollars per splice but they are out of them.  Gene will tell me to get on board with the Bovie system and get over all my old lines etc.  I may do that but not this week.  The old girl had her 40th birthday not too many weeks ago and I think that 40 years may be the mandatory self destruct time for some components like air line. 
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

I don't disagree that DOT is better and realy a necessity for brake lines but it wouldn't worry me to just use a brass coupling for a simple air line. There is probibly less chance of it failing then the line itself.If it did just close the ball valve and air up the bag

--
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook

[Emery Stora]

>> Douglas Norton wrote on Wed, 21 November 2012 08:26
>>> OK. thanks for the input that I can use too.
>>>
>>> So, I have 150 pound plastic line from home depot, one DOT splice from NAPA (more pricey than the splice from home depot.) , and some line that needs splicing. My local NAPA store is out of almost all air line stuff; no one else near by has DOT stuff. How important is it to use DOT stuff? I can splice existing line with either splice since I have one of each - but at least two leaks.Dare I use non DOT plastic line - I use shutoff valves so a line failure would not be catastrophic.
>>>

Long before the GMC net and before I had joined any clubs -- about 1984. -- I had some leaky plastic original fittings and I decided to repair them. I had the great idea to use brass compression fittings purchased at my local hardware store together with nylon bands and brass insert inside the tubes (I had just installed a line for a house ice maker in my freezer). I also used some pf the icemaker line near the compressor Those fittings and the line have been in place now for 28 years and so far nothing has exploded or leaked. I think that you can rest easy that non DOT materials can be used. Of course if the GMC net had existed back then I would have been afraid to use those parts. :)

Emery Stora

[Charles Boyd]

Sir: If you get a chance to compare a DOT with a regular fitting you will see 2 main differences. The insert that goes into the hose is made on the fitting and the hole in the compression coller does not have sharp edges. When using a non DOT fitting the insert can be misaligned and when tightening the coller it can get tight enough to score the hose. That simple airline can drop one side of the coach in about 1 second, not a good thing in a curve or any time. I`m just saying that the DOT regulates the manufacture of things like wheels, brakes and suspension parts for a reason. I have delt with these airlines on the big trucks for a long time and they can be damaged and they can be repaired safely. Besides it is illegal to use a non DOT fitting on manuactured vehicles in the US. The installer of a non approved part can be held responsible for any damages or injuries occured.
Of course it is yours and you can do as you wish.. but I wish you wouldn`t..



[/quote]
I don't disagree that DOT is better and realy a necessity for brake lines but it wouldn't worry me to just use a brass coupling for a simple air line. There is probibly less chance of it failing then the line itself.If it did just close the ball valve and air up the bag[/quote]

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee

[Douglas Norton]

Thanks for all the replies.  I have used brass fittings and am aware of how they can be installed and create a leak.  I think failures will be noticed, and will not likely be a problem since I drive using shutoff valves closed.  I think plastic inserts are available instead of the brass.   I have used brass stuff on many propane gas lines and water lines without failures.  When they did fail, it was at installation on plastic lines so I know the risks are there. I will see if my cousin can get DOT stuff at a discount; otherwise it is brass to the rescue.

[Jim Kanomata]

Prestolok are very good in a clean environment, but not very good in a
fender area.
We always avoid them as most do not understand how to treat that type
fitting.
Jim Bounds and I refuse to sell our kits with the press fit because of that
reason.
Jim B and I have more experiance on coaches.

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

[A.]

Matt Colie wrote on Mon, 19 November 2012 20:31

> Aham,
>
> You can buy couplers for 1/4 DOT nylon at most good parts houses. This fix would be as permanent as the air line itself. I carry two and 5 feet of line in case there is a problem that needs a quick repair.
>
> Matt

Matt,

1/4" OD or ID? I can get up to three of these for 1/4 OD tubing delivered to my front door for $6.20 each


http://i.ebayimg.com/t/DOT-Nylon-Air-Brake-Tubing-Union-Brass-Fitting-for-1-4-OD-Tube-/00/s/OTk5WDk5OQ==/$T2eC16JHJFoE9nh6m-9rBQptPf6!8!~~60_12.JPG

--
'73 23' Sequoia
UA (Upper Alabama)
"Sometimes 'free' is too expensive."

[Charles Boyd]

Sir: Here is one made by Firestone for air suspensions.

http://www.truckspring.com/products/Union-Air-Fitting---14-inch-tubing---14-inch-tubing__FIR3079.aspxere

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee

[Charles Boyd]

http://www.truckspring.com/products/Union-Air-Fitting---14-inch-tubing---14-inch-tubing__FIR3079.aspx

C Boyd wrote on Tue, 27 November 2012 21:44

[A.]

C Boyd wrote on Tue, 27 November 2012 20:44

> Sir: Here is one made by Firestone for air suspensions.
>
> http://www.truckspring.com/products/Union-Air-Fitting---14-inch-tubing---14-inch-tubing__FIR3079.aspx

Looks easy to install. $10.54 with shipping.

--
'73 23' Sequoia
UA (Upper Alabama)
"Sometimes 'free' is too expensive."

[Matt Colie]

ahamilto wrote on Tue, 27 November 2012 21:53

> C Boyd wrote on Tue, 27 November 2012 20:44
> > Sir: Here is one made by Firestone for air suspensions.
> >
> > http://www.truckspring.com/products/Union-Air-Fitting---14-inch-tubing---14-inch-tubing__FIR3079.aspx
> Looks easy to install. $10.54 with shipping.

> image deleted <http://content.truckspring.com/Images/Adapter%20Fitting/Firestone/3079.jpg>

Aham,

The push in fittings are OK lots of places. The are fast and simple and require few if any tools. They work great on durability testing rigs that live inside labs and are frequently disassembled for revision.

But (You knew this was coming), I have found some things that plagued me with their use.
They have no sense of humor. If the surface of the plastic line is not just about perfect, they may leak.
While they are supposed to release by pushing the collar, they frequently don't or worse, don't release completely damaging the line's sealing surface on removal.
The seal is effected with a rubber O-ring that has a limited life.

They also require that the line surface be very clean prior to assembly.

This is why I do not carry this type fitting in my "get your butt out of a bind" parts collection.

And, yes, for all the coach air system, you want 1/4 OD.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will find
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[A.]

Matt Colie wrote on Wed, 28 November 2012 08:14

> Aham,
>
> The push in fittings are OK lots of places. The are fast and simple and require few if any tools. They work great on durability testing rigs that live inside labs and are frequently disassembled for revision.
>
> But (You knew this was coming), I have found some things that plagued me with their use.
> They have no sense of humor. If the surface of the plastic line is not just about perfect, they may leak.
> While they are supposed to release by pushing the collar, they frequently don't or worse, don't release completely damaging the line's sealing surface on removal.
> The seal is effected with a rubber O-ring that has a limited life.
>
> They also require that the line surface be very clean prior to assembly.
>
> This is why I do not carry this type fitting in my "get your butt out of a bind" parts collection.
>
> And, yes, for all the coach air system, you want 1/4 OD.
>
> Matt

If the auto parts stores in town can't beat the $6.20 price of the ones I can get online, I will get one online.

--
'73 23' Sequoia
UA (Upper Alabama)
"Sometimes 'free' is too expensive."

[A.]

Update: I believe the "vandalism" was the initial stages of parting out the CanyonLands. Closer inpection revealed that the line was cut to remove the tube fittings, which were gone from both sides. The one on the passenger side wasn't as obvious because the line was loosely lodged in the fitting.
Anyway, when the PO rigged the schrader and ball valves on the airbags, he put a reducer on the bag and everthing else was 1/8" NPT. I got two 1/8" NPT male-to-1/4" OD Tube fittings for $2.58 each plus tax. Next time I start it up, I will see if the compressor puts any air in the bags.

--
'73 23' Sequoia
UA (Upper Alabama)

"Time is money. If you use YOUR time, you get to keep YOUR money."