[GMCnet] Spin on fuel filter, how to plumb it?
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Larry
May 11, 2015, 7:31:17 PM5/11/15
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I have a spin on fuel filter that I have had around for a while and finally getting the time to install it. Lost the directions for how to plumb it
and there is not a "IN" or "OUT stamped on the body, so my question is, does the fuel travel from the outside of the filter element to the center and
then out or does fuel travel from the inside of the filter through the element to the outside and then out?
TIA
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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and there is not a "IN" or "OUT stamped on the body, so my question is, does the fuel travel from the outside of the filter element to the center and
then out or does fuel travel from the inside of the filter through the element to the outside and then out?
TIA
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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Jim Galbavy
May 11, 2015, 7:37:08 PM5/11/15
to gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Larry,
Whose is it? I have a spin on Parker Hannifin
water separator / fuel filter. If you know who made
it, you might find it on the internet.
jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, FL
Whose is it? I have a spin on Parker Hannifin
water separator / fuel filter. If you know who made
it, you might find it on the internet.
jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, FL
Charles Boyd
May 11, 2015, 7:42:10 PM5/11/15
to gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Larry, the clear ones I use inline fills the outside so I can see the stuff and passes clean gas out the center of the filter.
Larry wrote on Mon, 11 May 2015 19:31
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
Larry wrote on Mon, 11 May 2015 19:31
> I have a spin on fuel filter that I have had around for a while and finally getting the time to install it. Lost the directions for how to plumb
> it and there is not a "IN" or "OUT stamped on the body, so my question is, does the fuel travel from the outside of the filter element to the center
> and then out or does fuel travel from the inside of the filter through the element to the outside and then out?
>
> TIA
--
C. Boyd
> it and there is not a "IN" or "OUT stamped on the body, so my question is, does the fuel travel from the outside of the filter element to the center
> and then out or does fuel travel from the inside of the filter through the element to the outside and then out?
>
> TIA
--
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
Larry
May 11, 2015, 8:06:42 PM5/11/15
to gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Jim Galbavy wrote on Mon, 11 May 2015 18:36
> Larry,
>
> Whose is it? I have a spin on Parker Hannifin
> water separator / fuel filter. If you know who made
> it, you might find it on the internet.
>
> jim galbavy
> '73 x-CL ANNIE
> Lake Mary, FL
Don't know...been to long.
>
> Whose is it? I have a spin on Parker Hannifin
> water separator / fuel filter. If you know who made
> it, you might find it on the internet.
>
> jim galbavy
> '73 x-CL ANNIE
> Lake Mary, FL
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Larry
May 11, 2015, 8:08:17 PM5/11/15
to gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
C Boyd wrote on Mon, 11 May 2015 18:41
> Larry, the clear ones I use inline fills the outside so I can see the stuff and passes clean gas out the center of the filter.
>
>
>
> Larry wrote on Mon, 11 May 2015 19:31
> > I have a spin on fuel filter that I have had around for a while and finally getting the time to install it. Lost the directions for how to
> > plumb it and there is not a "IN" or "OUT stamped on the body, so my question is, does the fuel travel from the outside of the filter element to
> > the center and then out or does fuel travel from the inside of the filter through the element to the outside and then out?
> >
> > TIA
Makes sense to me, but just not sure. It's why I ask.
>
>
>
> Larry wrote on Mon, 11 May 2015 19:31
> > I have a spin on fuel filter that I have had around for a while and finally getting the time to install it. Lost the directions for how to
> > plumb it and there is not a "IN" or "OUT stamped on the body, so my question is, does the fuel travel from the outside of the filter element to
> > the center and then out or does fuel travel from the inside of the filter through the element to the outside and then out?
> >
> > TIA
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
John Heslinga
May 12, 2015, 12:46:53 AM5/12/15
to gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Larry:
fuel filters that have pleated filtering media flow from the outside to the inside. The pressure of the flowing fluid wants to push the pleats in the
direction of the flow. (especially as the media starts to restrict as it fills) The perforated center tube holds the pleating in place. The "IN" port
goes to the ouside of the filter and the "OUT"port comes from the center of the filter (to the carb)
Best regards
--
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
TC4W "Too Cool For Words"
Retirement Projects Galore
Edmonton, Alberta
fuel filters that have pleated filtering media flow from the outside to the inside. The pressure of the flowing fluid wants to push the pleats in the
direction of the flow. (especially as the media starts to restrict as it fills) The perforated center tube holds the pleating in place. The "IN" port
goes to the ouside of the filter and the "OUT"port comes from the center of the filter (to the carb)
Best regards
--
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
TC4W "Too Cool For Words"
Retirement Projects Galore
Edmonton, Alberta
Robert Mueller
May 12, 2015, 1:02:49 AM5/12/15
to gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Larry,
Filter "theory" says that the flow should come into the filter and "hit" the outside of the filter (larger surface area) flow into
the center (smaller surface area) and then out.
Then there's the Q-Jet filter which is the opposite! ;-0
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry
I have a spin on fuel filter that I have had around for a while and finally getting the time to install it. Lost the directions for
how to plumb it and there is not a "IN" or "OUT stamped on the body, so my question is, does the fuel travel from the outside of the
filter element to the center and then out or does fuel travel from the inside of the filter through the element to the outside and
then out?
TIA
--
Larry
Filter "theory" says that the flow should come into the filter and "hit" the outside of the filter (larger surface area) flow into
the center (smaller surface area) and then out.
Then there's the Q-Jet filter which is the opposite! ;-0
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry
I have a spin on fuel filter that I have had around for a while and finally getting the time to install it. Lost the directions for
how to plumb it and there is not a "IN" or "OUT stamped on the body, so my question is, does the fuel travel from the outside of the
filter element to the center and then out or does fuel travel from the inside of the filter through the element to the outside and
then out?
TIA
--
Larry
Larry
May 12, 2015, 8:48:17 AM5/12/15
to gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Thanks John and Rob. Kinda what I had reasoned it to be. Gets installed today...IN to the outside of the filter element, and out the inside of the
element. :d :d
element. :d :d
John Heslinga
May 12, 2015, 10:23:58 AM5/12/15
to gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Rob:
Re. Quote:
down is slightly less pressure than pump pressure. If the filter is clean, both sides of the filter are equal pressure and the filter operates
properly. If the filter is clogged, if will leak past the filter seal. The engine still gets fuel, albeit unfiltered And the engine probably will run
like a toilet. (But limp home)
As you have said, most filters are designed opposite in order to improve the seal during clogged conditions, because the fluid flow will enhance the
seal.
That is why it is important that that folter be changed regularly.
--
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
TC4W "Too Cool For Words"
Retirement Projects Galore
Edmonton, Alberta
Re. Quote:
> Then there's the Q-Jet filter which is the opposite! ;-0
Believe it or not: the QJet filter is backward because it will push off of the gasket seat and bypass if the filter plugs. The spring that holds it
down is slightly less pressure than pump pressure. If the filter is clean, both sides of the filter are equal pressure and the filter operates
properly. If the filter is clogged, if will leak past the filter seal. The engine still gets fuel, albeit unfiltered And the engine probably will run
like a toilet. (But limp home)
As you have said, most filters are designed opposite in order to improve the seal during clogged conditions, because the fluid flow will enhance the
seal.
That is why it is important that that folter be changed regularly.
--
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
TC4W "Too Cool For Words"
Retirement Projects Galore
Edmonton, Alberta
Robert Mueller
May 13, 2015, 1:27:14 AM5/13/15
to gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
John,
Aha! So there was method to Rochester's madness!
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/aa-miscellaneous-photos/p40004-q-jet-filter-exploded-view.html
However, the bypass function of the filter could explain how the piece of crap got under the float needle valve in KenB's GMC. The
piece of crap prevented the float needle valve from seating which in turn allowed the fuel pump to pump gas out the Q-Jet's vents
and onto a hot manifold resulting in an engine fire. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
I have long been a proponent of Ken Frey's practice of installing a fuel filter with a metal housing in the rubber line that
connects the 3/8 inch OD metal line that is welded to the top of the front crossmember and the mechanical fuel pump inlet.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/aa-miscellaneous-photos/p54750-fuel-pump-inlet-filter.html
IIRC Ken installed that filter in 2008. As part of my maintenance practice I would remove it at the end of each tour season, blow
through it. It was easy to blow through in 2014 when I decided to change it basically for the hell of it!
As far as I'm concerned that filter negates the necessity to replace the Q-Jet filter regularly (which is a PITA).
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: John Heslinga
Rob:
Re. Quote:
> Then there's the Q-Jet filter which is the opposite! ;-0
Believe it or not: the QJet filter is backward because it will push off of the gasket seat and bypass if the filter plugs. The
spring that holds it down is slightly less pressure than pump pressure. If the filter is clean, both sides of the filter are equal
pressure and the filter operates properly. If the filter is clogged, if will leak past the filter seal. The engine still gets fuel,
albeit unfiltered And the engine probably will run like a toilet. (But limp home)
As you have said, most filters are designed opposite in order to improve the seal during clogged conditions, because the fluid flow
will enhance the seal.
That is why it is important that that folter be changed regularly.
John
Aha! So there was method to Rochester's madness!
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/aa-miscellaneous-photos/p40004-q-jet-filter-exploded-view.html
However, the bypass function of the filter could explain how the piece of crap got under the float needle valve in KenB's GMC. The
piece of crap prevented the float needle valve from seating which in turn allowed the fuel pump to pump gas out the Q-Jet's vents
and onto a hot manifold resulting in an engine fire. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
I have long been a proponent of Ken Frey's practice of installing a fuel filter with a metal housing in the rubber line that
connects the 3/8 inch OD metal line that is welded to the top of the front crossmember and the mechanical fuel pump inlet.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/aa-miscellaneous-photos/p54750-fuel-pump-inlet-filter.html
IIRC Ken installed that filter in 2008. As part of my maintenance practice I would remove it at the end of each tour season, blow
through it. It was easy to blow through in 2014 when I decided to change it basically for the hell of it!
As far as I'm concerned that filter negates the necessity to replace the Q-Jet filter regularly (which is a PITA).
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: John Heslinga
Rob:
Re. Quote:
> Then there's the Q-Jet filter which is the opposite! ;-0
Believe it or not: the QJet filter is backward because it will push off of the gasket seat and bypass if the filter plugs. The
spring that holds it down is slightly less pressure than pump pressure. If the filter is clean, both sides of the filter are equal
pressure and the filter operates properly. If the filter is clogged, if will leak past the filter seal. The engine still gets fuel,
albeit unfiltered And the engine probably will run like a toilet. (But limp home)
As you have said, most filters are designed opposite in order to improve the seal during clogged conditions, because the fluid flow
will enhance the seal.
That is why it is important that that folter be changed regularly.
Ken Burton
May 13, 2015, 7:09:27 AM5/13/15
to gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Rob, I disagree with your statement that if an in-line filter is installed you do not need the carb filter. I moved a coach from California back this
way to Ohio. Every day of the trip I was replacing either the line filter just before the fuel pump or the carb filter. I went through 3 in-line Wix
filters and 3 carb filters on that 2000 mile trip. The real problem was rust coming out of the gas tanks. Not all of the rust got filtered by the in
line filter and the carb filter caught most of what was missed by the in-line filter.
My daughter and I got good at changing the filters. I would say it took less than 5 minutes to change either one.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
way to Ohio. Every day of the trip I was replacing either the line filter just before the fuel pump or the carb filter. I went through 3 in-line Wix
filters and 3 carb filters on that 2000 mile trip. The real problem was rust coming out of the gas tanks. Not all of the rust got filtered by the in
line filter and the carb filter caught most of what was missed by the in-line filter.
My daughter and I got good at changing the filters. I would say it took less than 5 minutes to change either one.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Ken Henderson
May 13, 2015, 8:01:59 AM5/13/15
to gmclist
Just a comment on fuel lines and filters from Bean Station:
A member arrived with a poorly running engine and was, litterally,
hand-pushed from where he stopped to where he was parked for the rally (his
usualy spot, as it happened). He asked for my help to replace his ignition
module.
After discussing his recent symptoms, I suggested we check his fuel
filter(s). He had, at some time during his 10+ years of ownership,
bypassed a rear-mounted electric pump, leaving in place an inline filter.
The line suspending that fillter almost below the frame was hard. When he
removed the filter and handed it to me, it was obvious that he had not cut
the down-stream attached hose; rather, it had broken off about 2-1/2 inches
beyond the filter. It was old, hard, 30R6 -- NOT ethanol-tolerant.
After pulling that piece of hose off the filter and taking him to get new
30R7 or 30R14 barrier hose (numbers which meant NOTHING to the otherwise
very helpful and apparently well experienced NAPA counterman -- they just
call it "barrier hose" and "fuel injection" or "not"), I assigned him to
run a direct line to the fuel pump for a test.
While he was running the test hose all the way from the new filter location
to the front crossmember (as an initial test), I tied to blow through that
short section of broken-off hose. Without success. I finally forced a #2
phillips screwdrive through it, dislodging a 3/4"+ glob of tar-like
deteriorated fuel hose -- or something -- leaving the hose lined with
similar stuff.
Since the owner did not want to let us help him R&R the tanks there (as he
SHOULD have done), he left the effective bypass hose in place for his
several hundred miles home. I was worried about him and called to catch
him broken down half way home with another, unrelated, minor problem. He
called the next day to say he'd gotten home with no further trouble. He's
promised to not get on the road again without rebuilding his fuel system.
DON"T neglect those old fuel system components!
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 1:27 AM, Robert Mueller <robmu...@iinet.net.au>
wrote:
A member arrived with a poorly running engine and was, litterally,
hand-pushed from where he stopped to where he was parked for the rally (his
usualy spot, as it happened). He asked for my help to replace his ignition
module.
After discussing his recent symptoms, I suggested we check his fuel
filter(s). He had, at some time during his 10+ years of ownership,
bypassed a rear-mounted electric pump, leaving in place an inline filter.
The line suspending that fillter almost below the frame was hard. When he
removed the filter and handed it to me, it was obvious that he had not cut
the down-stream attached hose; rather, it had broken off about 2-1/2 inches
beyond the filter. It was old, hard, 30R6 -- NOT ethanol-tolerant.
After pulling that piece of hose off the filter and taking him to get new
30R7 or 30R14 barrier hose (numbers which meant NOTHING to the otherwise
very helpful and apparently well experienced NAPA counterman -- they just
call it "barrier hose" and "fuel injection" or "not"), I assigned him to
run a direct line to the fuel pump for a test.
While he was running the test hose all the way from the new filter location
to the front crossmember (as an initial test), I tied to blow through that
short section of broken-off hose. Without success. I finally forced a #2
phillips screwdrive through it, dislodging a 3/4"+ glob of tar-like
deteriorated fuel hose -- or something -- leaving the hose lined with
similar stuff.
Since the owner did not want to let us help him R&R the tanks there (as he
SHOULD have done), he left the effective bypass hose in place for his
several hundred miles home. I was worried about him and called to catch
him broken down half way home with another, unrelated, minor problem. He
called the next day to say he'd gotten home with no further trouble. He's
promised to not get on the road again without rebuilding his fuel system.
DON"T neglect those old fuel system components!
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 1:27 AM, Robert Mueller <robmu...@iinet.net.au>
wrote:
Jim Galbavy
May 13, 2015, 8:50:13 AM5/13/15
to gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Ken,
I had the same issues as you discribed when I got home from Patterson, La.
Dropped the tanks and they were full of rust. Cleaned and had them coated.
Then had the entire fuel system replaced adding a new Parker / Hannnifin
fuel filter-water seperator to replace the inline fuel filter because it filters
finer than the carb filter. The trip to Bean Station was uneventful except for
the blown muffler. After seeing the condition of my fuel system (with steel tanks),
one of the first things that I would suggest to anyone is to drop & R&R the tanks
then replace the rest of the fuel system. JWIWD
jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, FL
I had the same issues as you discribed when I got home from Patterson, La.
Dropped the tanks and they were full of rust. Cleaned and had them coated.
Then had the entire fuel system replaced adding a new Parker / Hannnifin
fuel filter-water seperator to replace the inline fuel filter because it filters
finer than the carb filter. The trip to Bean Station was uneventful except for
the blown muffler. After seeing the condition of my fuel system (with steel tanks),
one of the first things that I would suggest to anyone is to drop & R&R the tanks
then replace the rest of the fuel system. JWIWD
jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, FL
gene Fisher
May 13, 2015, 9:31:01 AM5/13/15
to gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Great report
We all need these reports
Erf
> <javascript:;>>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
Robert Mueller
May 15, 2015, 11:41:16 PM5/15/15
to gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Ken,
I agree with what you have noted below, I SHOULD have noted that along with installing the filter Ken Frey dropped and cleaned the
fuel tanks.
I should have qualified that statement by noting that if you have clean fuel tanks and new fuel ethanol compatible lines you could
"get away" without having a carb fuel filter.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Burton
Rob, I disagree with your statement that if an in-line filter is installed you do not need the carb filter. I moved a coach from
California back this way to Ohio. Every day of the trip I was replacing either the line filter just before the fuel pump or the
carb filter. I went through 3 in-line Wix filters and 3 carb filters on that 2000 mile trip. The real problem was rust coming out
of the gas tanks. Not all of the rust got filtered by the in line filter and the carb filter caught most of what was missed by the
in-line filter.
My daughter and I got good at changing the filters. I would say it took less than 5 minutes to change either one.
--
Ken
I agree with what you have noted below, I SHOULD have noted that along with installing the filter Ken Frey dropped and cleaned the
fuel tanks.
I should have qualified that statement by noting that if you have clean fuel tanks and new fuel ethanol compatible lines you could
"get away" without having a carb fuel filter.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Burton
Rob, I disagree with your statement that if an in-line filter is installed you do not need the carb filter. I moved a coach from
California back this way to Ohio. Every day of the trip I was replacing either the line filter just before the fuel pump or the
carb filter. I went through 3 in-line Wix filters and 3 carb filters on that 2000 mile trip. The real problem was rust coming out
of the gas tanks. Not all of the rust got filtered by the in line filter and the carb filter caught most of what was missed by the
in-line filter.
My daughter and I got good at changing the filters. I would say it took less than 5 minutes to change either one.
--
Ken
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