[GMCnet] Lug nut / Wheel nut Torque

[Robert Mueller]

G'day,

For clarity I will refer to the nuts that hold the wheels onto the hubs as LUG NUTS; they are 9/16 inches diameter and 18 threads
per inch (TPI).

The GMC Maintenance Manuals X-7425, X-7525, X-7625, and X-7725 all specify to tighten the lug nuts to 250 ft lb and NOT to lubricate
the nuts or studs. I checked the Service Bulletins and cannot find any information noting to lower the torque. It has been noted on
the GMCnet that torquing the lug nuts repeatedly to 250 ft lb torque can stretch the wheel studs and cause them to break. It has
been noted to lower the torque to 150 ft lb and lubricate the threads.

I suggest we discuss this and come up with recommendations based on our discussion.

Alcoa wheel lug nuts are a done deal as the lug nuts have 140 ft lb stamped into them.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426




_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

[David H. Jarvis]

How about torquing them to 150 and checking every so many miles?
I have seen trucks with those little high visibilty arrows on the lug nuts, all pointing in the same direction. They would indicate when a lug nut
starts to loosen. You could install them.

[Robert Mueller]

Ken Burton

250 is correct because of the large flat washer built as part of the nut. This washer requires additional torque to overcome the additional friction
of the washer. That said, a lot of people use a lower setting. I never did when I had steel wheels.

Ken

[Robert Mueller]

USAussie

G'day,

Back on September 20, 2012 in Forum Message #185150 I noted; "The manual is incorrect and was revised to one hundred and fifty foot pounds (150)."

Rick Denny commented "Which is a reasonable number when you use anti-sieze lubricant, which you should."

Unfortunately I NOW have a problem with that statement because I wanted to provide a source for my statement and I can't seem to find out WHERE I got
150 foot pounds from. I checked MM X-7625, MM X-7725 and the Wheel and Tire Service Bulletins and found NADA!

Anybody got any ideas where I might have found that info!

Regards,
Rob M.

[Robert Mueller]

USAussie

G'day,

I'm going to answer my own question! I did some more digging and found this:

Wheel lug nut torque
- Use torque wrench @ 130-150 fi-lbs in sequence
- Not maint. Manual value (250 ft-lbs): studs will stretch & break
- Radial wheels only w/radial tires

Which was in a document entitled:

WHAT EVERY GMC OWNER SHOULD KNOW by Dwayne Simmons and can be found here:

http://gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/required_gmc_knowledge/required_gmc_info.html

That's good enough for me!

[Robert Mueller]

Sammy Williams

What does GM use on its 1 ton pickups....id imagine it would be close to the motorhome.

Sammy

[Robert Mueller]

USAussie

Gene,

I got an OFF NET comment from a long time GMC owner who is technically savvy expressing concern that 150 ft lb might be too low and that he felt 185
ft lb would be better.

I decided that it might be a good idea to reach a consensus so I sent in the Lug nut / Wheel nut Torque email requesting comments.

Regards,
Rob M.

[Robert Mueller]

Mr ERFisher

I have never, never heard of a lug nut coming off

or loose

i would do 140 and forget it.....

but, this new bunch, have to rehash it again

good work
erf

[Robert Mueller]

James Hupy

There will always be conflicting opinions on lug nut/stud torque values. A 9/16" grade 8 wheel stud is definitely over torqued at 250 foot pounds
regardless of what kind of nut is used. With eight such studs securing a steel wheel the combined clamping force is enormous. Any fastener stretched
beyond it's point of maximum elasticity is being set up to fail at some point. There are a number of errors in manuals printed by GM and I believe
that this is one of them that slipped by the technical proofreaders whose job it is to catch these errors. Just what I think. Your opinion may vary.
(Grin)
Jim Hupy

[Robert Mueller]

Mr ERFisher

There is this http://gmc49ers.blogspot.com/?m=1

FREE WIFI @ Mickey D

[Robert Mueller]

Mr ERFisher

Link links links

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lEupyENLbgU/Uy7MI7UrTBI/AAAAAAAATXM/psBILz9yb5M/s1600/bearing+torque.jpg

[scott cowden]

I read somewhere recently that uneven torquing of wheel studs is a significant cause of brake rotor warping.

Just adding a tweak to the wandering topic.....

Scott
'74 x-Glacier
Newmarket ON

Sent from my iPhone

[Espen Heitmann]

I just had all the wheels of Dobbelt trøbbel, at the front for changing the ball joints and at the rear for cleaning up the drums since it had been
standing still for years.
The front studs where good but at the rear sever had been changed, the first sign of trouble was when one stud broke when taking I was taking off the
wheel, not a large problem as I all ready had orderd a couple of studs from Golby since I like to have some on the shelf.

So of with the drum and then the hub, no problem to drive out the broken stud and replace it, then I use a 3M pad to clean all mating surfaces, I
prefer to do this by hand, with a power/air tool it is easy to remove any material from the mating surface and make it uneven.( I clean the hub, drum
and rim including the surface for the lug nut ) then I give the stud treads a couple of drops of engine oil and wipe them so the just have a very thin
coat of oil.

When I install the wheels I first us my battery powered lug wrench, it is not very strong, just around 80 ft lb but it will give me an equal starting
point to torque down the lug nuts, I allways do this in sequence (1-5, 2-6, 3-7, 4-8, 5-1 ) then I do the same with my large rachet wrench and a
extender trying to use a slow even force.

Now if I have done this right I can actually feel and see when I come to the point where I start to strech the studs, It looks like the lug nut
"stops" and there is a increse in the force needed to turn the wrench, I did use my electronic torque adapter to see how much force I had at this
"point" and at all the lug nuts it was in the 140 to 150 ft lb range.
I even broke an old stud at 120 ft lb, oh well it was the last drum I was working on so I had some experience to replace it..

Then I take a short drive, maybe 4-5 miles and retorque all the wheel nuts, I had no difference, I did also have a 100 miles trip a couple of days ago
and rechencked them again, same same.

So torque the lug nuts to 250 ft lb will only strech the studs and put unnecessary strain on them in my eyes, 140-150 ft lb did the job for me but
just to make sure I will recheck the nuts after 1000 miles or so.

--
1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Mean Green Machine
And A 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel
in Norway

[Matt Colie]

USAussie wrote on Sat, 10 May 2014 20:55

> Mr ERFisher
>
> I have never, never heard of a lug nut coming off
>
> or loose
>
> i would do 140 and forget it.....
>
> but, this new bunch, have to rehash it again
>
> good work
> erf

Yes, Let's do that.

Some years ago, I bought a whole new set of tires. The Firestone shop only had torque bars up to 175#. So, they used one of those. I did check the
first side and got about an extra flat on each of those, but missed doing the left side. At the first stop of the excursion (a plan of over 3K
miles), I just got this feeling. I dug out the breaker bar and pipe that I carry for such purpose and checked the left front. (I had seen the guy
hit them with is air wrench and torque bar.) Two were loose - like the weight of the wrench loose. Four were well low of 150 and only two were even
close to 150.

I got at lease one flat on the other sixteen. The right side was still good.

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES Getting Ready for Hamilton
'73 Glacier 23 With 4 Rear Brakes that pull as they should
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Bob de Kruyff]

USAussie wrote on Fri, 09 May 2014 21:37

You have to decide if you are going to lube the threads and lug nut or if you are going to tighten them dry. The torque values will differ
dramatically because of how much friction you need to overcome. There are some conversion values available and I'll check what we do. However, if you
look at the Alcoas with free spinning washers vs the steel wheels with "binding" lug nuts, you start to get an idea of the difference. After all, the
studs are the same.
--
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ

[Les Burt]

USAussie wrote on Sat, 10 May 2014 20:50

> Sammy Williams
>
> What does GM use on its 1 ton pickups....id imagine it would be close to the motorhome.
>
> Sammy

A quick google search for either a 87 dually or a p30 chassis turns up a variety of answers, but the common answer seems to be 140 ft lbs for an 8
bolt dually with 9/16 stud. The source (Dorman Products) doesn`t mention type of wheel or lug nut.

I`d like to know what the official P30 chassis shop manual says.
--
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress

[Billy Massey]

Les
Check it out.
http://www.bdub.net/factory-manuals.html

bdub
http://www.bdub.net/GMCers/

On May 12, 2014 9:44 PM, "Les Burt" wrote:

... snip ...

I`d like to know what the official P30 chassis shop manual says.

[Les Burt]

Doh!
And I even have that manual on my swiss army knife.
Double doh!

By the way Billy, they arrived middle of last week. Thanks for making them happen.

Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress

[Les Burt]

Here is some info I pulled from the P30 manual. I highlighted the applicable sections.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/wheels/p54653-p30-lugnut-torque-specs.html

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/wheels/p54652-general-fastener-torque-specs.html


Interesting to note that the recommended lugnut torque is 140ft lbs DRY, no lubricant.

The second chart mentions that the torque should be reduced by 10% if oil is used.
That second chart also shows a max of 170ft lbs for a grade 8 fastener (9/16-18) with dry threads.

I would think that we should be safe using anything from 130-150ft lbs on our coaches, depending on type of lubrication used. (if any)

Comments?

Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress

[Ken Henderson]

I see no indication that the P30 used the washer/nuts used on the GMC. I
find one contrary indication on page 3-16 where it is specified "DO NOT
APPLY LUBRICANT TO THE BALL SEATS OF THE WHEELS OR TO THE BALL FACES OF CAP
NUTS."

I'm comfortable with 140 ft-lb with oiled threads on the GMC's OEM wheels
and nuts. But then, I've always had Alcoas. :-)

Ken H.

[Les Burt]

Ken,
I noticed that as well, but since the P30 manual also touches on 5, 6, 8, &10 bolt wheels with regards to wheel torque patterns as well as both single and Dual wheel configurations, I took that comment as probably relating to those "other" applications and not necessarily ours.

As you (and others) have pointed out, an important part of determining correct wheel torque is knowing what fastener configuration you are using. Since the type of wheel used will determine the type of nut and washer to employ, appropriate torques may vary. Add the fact that a particular coach may not even have the correct fasteners securing the wheel and a safety issue could easily arise.

To make a document covering a proper and safe recommendation on lugnut torque, one should also cover all the wheel and fastener variables.

Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress

[Robert Mueller]

G'day,

For the record please be advised that I am saving all the responses and will put together an "executive summary" of what we've noted
the end of next week. Hopefully I will be able to construct a consensus from the suggestions provided.

That's two weeks from when the original message was sent in.

If you have an idea, opinion, suggestion, whatever please respond before no later than Friday, June 23rd.

Regards,
Rob M.

[lenze middelberg]

One of our german friend ( from the german us-camper forum) pointed out the you would expect GMC to rectify a major mistake in a manual
With the american culture of liability claims that would be imperativ

Do you believe that gmc would let a (possibly fatal) mistake stand for 40 years?
--
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" ( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Volvo v70
Denmark

[Ken Burton]

Thanks Appie. My thoughts exactly.

Also Rob getting a consensus means nothing. If you get enough lemmings together and they all run off of the cliff. Does that mean that the lemming
consensus was correct?

Show it to me in writing from the manufacturer.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[Robert Mueller]

Appie,

First of

I am of the opinion that the US culture of sue everybody and anybody for everything and anything wasn't prevelant in the 1970's and 1980's.

When you say this is possibly a fatal mistake I assume you refer to an accident caused by a wheel falling off due to broken stud(s). I am of the
opinion that a lawyer will have a hell of a time proving that due to a torque of 250 ft lb being applied repeadtedly. a lawyer would have one hell of
a problem proving that
Ken,

You might want to put a hold on wait and read what the lead lemming writes when he composes the consensus! :twisted:
--
Regards,
Rob M.
(USAussie)
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

[Robert Mueller]

Please disregard the message below it was a work in progress that I decided not to send but somehow it got sent!

The only sentence that makes any sense is the last one addressed to Ken. :-)

Sorry,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia

[lenze middelberg]

Rob, sorry to say that line does not make sense either :p
There will not be a consensus, mayby a discription of different opinions

--
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" ( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Volvo v70
Denmark

[Espen Heitmann]

Another question, can anyone here state that they have torqued the original lug nuts to the original steel wheels with a torque wrench to 250 Ft lb,
or even better are someone here willing to try it ?

--
1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Mean Green Machine
And A 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel
in Norway

_______________________________________________

[Les Burt]

Les Burt wrote on Tue, 13 May 2014 21:24
> To make a document covering a proper and safe recommendation on lug nut torque, one should also cover all the wheel and fastener variables.



Rob,
I have collected several images from the web of the various types of Lug Nuts and Lug Nut Systems that I have seen in use on GMCMHs. Feel free to use
(or not use) them in your lug nut torquing document.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6203-wheels.html

If you look, you will notice that there are 4 different types of lug nut designs, all potentially having different torque characteristics.

My own coach actually had three different types of lug nuts in use on 1 wheel!

I agree that the large 1 piece flange nut will require a higher torque to achieve the correct wheel clamping. One nut I see often being mis-used is
the cone seat nut, flipped over so the flat side is against the wheel. Doing this would also require a higher torque to achieve correct wheel
clamping.

I get the feeling that this topic is almost as complicated as finding a steel wheel that fits. ;)


If it would help, I am willing to do some sacrificial torque testing on one of my spare sets of bogies. I could easily try a 250lb torque load using a
steel wheel and a variety of nuts. I would be replacing those studs & nuts anyway if the hubs were to be used on a coach. A stud stretch measurement
could easily be done at the same time, but the method would need to be discussed to be sure I'm taking the measurements correctly.

I do have a set of Eagles and corresponding lug nuts, but would be hesitant to subject them to the 250lb abuse for fear of permanently marking the
wheel.

Comments?





--

[John Wright]

Our first coach ( bought 1998 ) had the 16.5 steel wheels with Goodyear G159 tires. Drove badly! I asked Clarence Buskirk what torque should I use for the steel wheels. He said, “ Use 150Ft/Lbs, the wheels will not fall off.” His other comment was that the high number of studs that had to be replaced when people went to Alcoa wheels and all the damage studs that were stretched. If was fortunate that when we went to Alcoa wheels and new 16” tires that none of ours were damaged. The Alcoa wheels and lugs nuts call for 140Ft/lbs
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretchsaid, “
Michigan

[A.]

powerjon wrote on Wed, 14 May 2014 12:25
> ...Clarence Buskirk...said, "Use 150Ft/Lbs, the wheels will not fall off." His other comment was that the high number of studs that had to be
> replaced when people went to Alcoa wheels and all the damaged studs that were stretched. ...
Makes sense to me.

--
'73 23' Sequoia For Sale
'73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
Upper Alabama

[Matt Colie]

Loffen wrote on Wed, 14 May 2014 04:14

> Another question, can anyone here state that they have torqued the original lug nuts to the original steel wheels with a torque wrench to 250 Ft
> lb, or even better are someone here willing to try it ?

I CAN.

In spite of the fact that I have a good air wrench, I still do a check pass with a 2 3/4 breaker bar and I put a whole lot of my considerable weight
on the end. Early in the time I have owned the coach, I did have a wheel stud fail. I also had wheels put on at at tire store with a 175# torque
bar come loose while I was underway.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES

'73 Glacier 23 With 4 Rear Brakes that pull as they should
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Emery Stora]

I also tightened them to 250.
Once when I bought new tires from Discount Tire and drove home. Two days later when cleaning the wheels I saw two lug nuts loose. I brought it back to Discount Tore and they told me they had torqued them to. 150. They retorqued all the wheels to 250 and no problems after that.

I later bought Alcoas 16" and it was then much easier to change tires. I got rid of my three foot bar and the three foot piece of pipe that slid over it.

Emery Stora

[Robert Mueller]

G'day,

I thought I'd interject a comment.

Fasteners are torqued to stretch them a specified amount to obtain a clamping force required for the particular application. On
automobiles this is accomplished by a torque wrench that measures the amount of twisting force applied. This can result in variable
amounts of stretch on the fastener for a number of reasons which I'm not going to go in to.

As far as I know the only way that I know of to accurately measure the stretch on a bolt is to measure the length and tighten it
until it reaches the required length. That's the way the bolts that hold split propeller hubs are torqued; I.E. C-130. It is also
the way ARP specifies their connecting rod bolts be torqued.

Obviously it would be damn near impossible to do that on wheel studs on a vehicle with out some special tools.

I would think that GM / GMC would have done some testing to come up with the 250 ft lb in the first place as it appears from what
has been submitted to date regarding torquing the same 9/16 - 18 wheel studs on other vehicles. They could have cut the center out
of a 16.5 inch wheel making it the same OD as the hub flange then used a wheel hub without the brake drum mounted on. That would
provide access to both ends of the wheel stud so they could measure the amount of stretch as they torqued it.

As far as manual not being revised in 40 years goes it is quite possible there was not enough feedback from GMC dealers for that to
happen. Perhaps they just replaced studs when they broke and assumed that they were subjected to excessive torque.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia

[Carl Stouffer]

I don't know whether this adds anything useful to the discussion or not, but my 2000 Dodge 3500 (11,000 lb GVW), which has 16" steel wheels and the
same flanged, 9/16" lug nuts as used on the GMC, calls for 130 - 160 Lb Ft of torque on the lug nuts.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.

[Carl Stouffer]

Carl S. wrote on Wed, 14 May 2014 19:22

> I don't know whether this adds anything useful to the discussion or not, but my 2000 Dodge 3500 (11,000 lb GVW), which has 16" steel wheels and
> the same flanged, 9/16" lug nuts as used on the GMC, calls for 130 - 160 Lb Ft of torque on the lug nuts.

The above said, I don't have a dog in this fight, as I have aluminum wheels. When I did have the 16" steel wheels on the coach, I don't remember ever
having a lug nut come loose, but I can't remember what I torqued them to either. It seems to me it was less than 250 ft lbs though.

[Les Burt]

I agree with how to precisely measure stud stretch, but do we need to be so precise as to require stud OAL? A simple stretch measurement of the stud with 0.001" precision, could be performed by measuring from threaded end of stud to outer surface of wheel. Initial measurement would need to be done with a base torque applied (30-40ft lbs?)to seat the wheel, and total stretch measured with final torque applied.

What would be considered an acceptable max stretch for our wheel studs?

Alternatively, if more precision is required, a flat steel bar with a similar thickness to our steel wheels and having similar dimension holes could be attached to two or more wheel studs on a front hub. The bar, if long enough, can be used to immobilize hub rotation and also give access to the back side of the wheel stud being measured.

As I mentioned earlier, I am willing to perform some torque and stretch tests provided someone gives me criteria/procedures to follow. I understand the principles, just don't have sufficient engineering knowledge to know for sure that I am following a proper process. I would be willing to sacrifice a few studs and nuts in order to provide the data.

I feel that 140-150 ft lbs is adequate, but rather than be a lemming, I would rather be one that has data to support my opinion. I also like the confidence of knowing that the tech info I obtain from others has been validated in some way. I am sure many of you appreciate the same.

Unless someone can provide a document explaining why GMC chose the 250ft lb torque, this subject will always be debated. Having some hard data to refer to would settle some of the debate, but if we took that approach towards all issues, we would have nothing to discuss here :)

Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress

[Robert Mueller]

Carl,

AFAIC any and all input is welcomed!

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Stouffer

> I don't know whether this adds anything useful to the discussion or not, but my 2000 Dodge 3500 (11,000 lb GVW), which has 16"
steel wheels and
> the same flanged, 9/16" lug nuts as used on the GMC, calls for 130 - 160 Lb Ft of torque on the lug nuts.

The above said, I don't have a dog in this fight, as I have aluminum wheels. When I did have the 16" steel wheels on the coach, I
don't remember ever having a lug nut come loose, but I can't remember what I torqued them to either. It seems to me it was less
than 250 ft lbs though.

Carl

[A.]

Here's some light reading to help understand some of the factors involved

http://gmcws.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/jim-rowe-fastener-presentation.pdf

--
'73 23' Sequoia For Sale
'73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
Upper Alabama

[Bob de Kruyff]

A Hamilto wrote on Wed, 14 May 2014 12:24

> powerjon wrote on Wed, 14 May 2014 12:25
> > ...Clarence Buskirk...said, "Use 150Ft/Lbs, the wheels will not fall off." His other comment was that the high number of studs that had to be
> > replaced when people went to Alcoa wheels and all the damaged studs that were stretched. ...
> Makes sense to me.

Most studs were replaced because they were deemed too short with an Alcoa wheel. It became the folklore of the time.

--
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ

[John Wright]

The Standard stud length is long enough for the Alcoa wheels combo. This has been a wives tales since Wes C issued his edict back in Coach Talk Dec 1994, Issue 2 on page 7. This has been discussed several times here on the net in the last 10 years.

The true is that the studs are of sufficient length when using Aloca wheel nuts. The original stud and the Alcoa wheel combination allow for 0.532 inches of thread, which is more than the pitch diameter of the stud. A longer stud does not provide more strength, it just has more threads exposed. This was first published in GMCMI newsletter issue # 84, summer 2003, page 2.

JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan

[Ken Burton]

Loffen wrote on Wed, 14 May 2014 03:14

> Another question, can anyone here state that they have torqued the original lug nuts to the original steel wheels with a torque wrench to 250 Ft
> lb, or even better are someone here willing to try it ?

When I had OEM steel wheels and nuts I always torqued them by the book to 250.

"Candidate for Lead Lemming Ken B."

Vote for me.

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[Espen Heitmann]

This is starting to be interesting :)

To those who did torque the nuts to 250 ft lb, what tool did you use ? a torque rod or a torque wrench ?

--
1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Mean Green Machine
And A 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel
in Norway

_______________________________________________

[Ken Burton]

torque wrench

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[Ken Burton]

I was just thinking about this. If you are in the lead are you still a lemming?

USAussie wrote on Wed, 14 May 2014 01:37

> Please disregard the message below it was a work in progress that I decided not to send but somehow it got sent!
>

> The only sentence that makes any sense is the last one addressed to Ken. :)

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[Matt Colie]

Loffen wrote on Thu, 15 May 2014 03:24

> This is starting to be interesting :)
>
> To those who did torque the nuts to 250 ft lb, what tool did you use ? a torque rod or a torque wrench ?

As I used to run an engine laboratory, we frequently had to tighten the couplings on dynamometer input shafts. If the system was configured
correctly, a display on the wall could indicate the peak torque seen in the last few seconds. This was a great learning tool. At that time, I was
frequently tightening the flywheel nuts on VWs. I went back there two years ago and begged for the another personal calibration. Every try was
240~250.

So, I my case, I rely on experience, a 3/4 drive breaker bar and a piece of pipe. I know that my CP air wrench hits to 275 just after my compressor
stops, so I go around and snug them all up and then give each a last hit before the compressor starts again.

I have never seen a torque bar for 250. They probably exist, but not a places that sell 16 or 16.5 tires. I have personal experience that a 175 is
too little for my coach.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES
'73 Glacier 23 With 4 Rear Brakes that pull as they should
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Les Burt]

Thanks for the link. That stuff reminds me of my school days. I used to love getting lost in tech books. Not so much these days. Now I prefer to get my hands dirty doing the stuff I used to read about. Guess i'll have to find some time to wrap my head around that document.

Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress

[Dave King]

As some of you know I have a 1976 SOB (Dodge) It has flange wheel nuts and steel wheels.
I haven't looked at the owners manual lately, yes I have the original Dodge owners
manual for the chassis, but I'm pretty sure the wheel (lug nut) torque was quite a wide
range and the upper number was 450 lbs/ft. I bought a great big Snap On 3/4" bar so
I could change a wheel on the side of the road if I had to. The bar is 4 feet long.
It would be a graet disuader in "gun free" Canada. (If I could swing it)

Think about what is being discussed here. If the torgue for Alcoas is 140 ft/lbs,
with a swivel nut, the torque for a flange nut should be much higher due to the friction
on the face of the wheel. I'm not sure looking at a torque chart for various sizes/grades of
bolts gives thee correct answer wheen a flange nut is in play. Just what I think I know

I guess with some GMCMH studs and some steel and a tool to measure the stretch this could
be modelled on the bench (a strong bench) and a very heavy duty vise.

The wheel nuts on a 18 wheeler are somewhere around 450-500 ft/lbs of torque and I believe in
Ontario must be torqued by hand. $50,000 fine if the wheel comes adrift because of loose
wheel nuts.
--
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

[David]

I know that the service manual for a 1997 Ford F-53 motorhome chassis with 9/16-18 lug nuts and steel wheels specifies 140 ft lbs of torque.
Unfortunately, I don't know the exact configuration of the nuts. I can report back at the end of next week when the motorhome shows up at my house for
maintenance...
--
David'73 23' x-Painted Desert TZE033V100223

[Dave King]

I think you will find the ford has 2 piece lug nuts so it makes sense it would be something like
140ft/pounds of torque. My year 2000 gGMC Yukon 2500 with 8 boltwheels and cone lug nuts uses 140ft/pounds as the lug nut torque.

--
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

[A.]

What happens if you put two-piece flanged lugnuts on a steel rim?

--
'73 23' Sequoia For Sale
'73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
Upper Alabama

[Robert Mueller]

I would guess that you would torque them to 140 ft lb.

The would be:

Nuts = $229.92

And possibly:

SS Covers = $138.72
Plastic Covers = $239.04

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----

From: A.

What happens if you put two-piece flanged lugnuts on a steel rim?

[jim kanomata]

As long as you have the original steel rim and lug nut with the solid washer, go by the book.
However, if your running an Alloy wheel with a washer that spins, then you can get by on 130 ft. lbs. of torque.

--
Applied/GMC, Fremont, CA
1-800-752-7502
ji...@appliedgmc.com
www.appliedgmc.com