[GMCnet] Larger Engine Oil Filter

[Bob Dunahugh]

I was told that there's a longer oil filter that Wix makes for our 403/455. And I didn't put that number in my note book. I'm sure someone else knows. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
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[Rob Mueller]

Bob,

It's Wix 51049

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6398-455-2f-403-engine-oil-flow-path.html

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

[Mike Hamm]

https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/wix,51049,oil+filter,5340

Rockauto $6.61 plus shipping.
Cheapest I could find even if you only buy 1 with shipping. Buy more and they are a real deal.
--
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts

[Larry]

USAussie wrote on Thu, 15 June 2017 09:43

> Bob,
>
> It's Wix 51049
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6398-455-2f-403-engine-oil-flow-path.html
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.

What is the difference between this one (WIX 51049) and the WIX 51258?
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.

[Emery Stora]

Size is the only difference. The 51049 holds about 1 quart. The 51258 is shorter.

Neither has a by pass valve. Both have an anti-drain back valve.
Both have a flow rate of 9-11 gpm.
Both have a 21 micron filter.
The 51049 would have more filter area.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

[Jim Kanomata]

They show same flow rate, however more area in this case means lower pressure drop. More flow through it at same pressure.
There are lot of overdoses filters that have less than half media

Sent from my iPhone

[John R. Lebetski]

Be sure that doesn't stick it down too far in harms way for tire schrapnl and rocks etc. More is not always better. Had a friend where PO and put the
upsized filter adaptor on his Turbo Regal. He was backing out his drive and left a huge oil stream. Very lucky place to happen and at idle. I
couldn't imagine what happened unless a cooler line blew. Upom examination the oversized oil filer can had been rubbing on the intercooler bracket and
cut a hole in the can. Pumped out 5 qts in seconds. Engine engine was ok as he shut down when he saw oil trail.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

[Emery Stora]

There is plenty of room for the larger filter on the GMC motorhome. And it does not go down anywhere near the bottom of the engine. A rock would have to blow out the frame before it could hit the filter.
I have been using it for years because I like the larger filter area it provides.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

[John Wright]

The filter fits fine, I have been running for years (16) without any problems.

JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

> On Jun 16, 2017, at 12:34 PM, Emery Stora <emery...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> There is plenty of room for the larger filter on the GMC motorhome. And it does not go down anywhere near the bottom of the engine. A rock would have to blow out the frame before it could hit the filter.
> I have been using it for years because I like the larger filter area it provides.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>
>> On Jun 16, 2017, at 9:18 AM, John R. Lebetski <gransp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>

>> Be sure that doesn't stick it down too far in harms way for tire shrapnel and rocks etc. More is not always better. Had a friend where PO and put the
>> Upsized filter adaptor on his Turbo Regal. He was backing out his drive and left a huge oil stream. Very lucky place to happen and at idle. I
>> couldn't imagine what happened unless a cooler line blew. Upon examination the oversized oil filer can had been rubbing on the intercooler bracket and

[Rob Mueller]

John,

I'm sorry this isn't a filter problem it's a mechanic problem, he installs
an oversize filter and doesn't check the clearances around it?

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----

[John R. Lebetski]

The PO installed it and the owner was not "mechanically inclined". I got called for an "over the phone troubleshoot" when it leaked. Yes always
better to check than not when the engine saving device makes you buy a new engine. I can see the larger filter advantage on a long trip cycle before
heading bank to home base for a drain and fill.

--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

[Rob Mueller]

John,

So he was mechanically DECLINED! :-)

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John R.
Lebetski
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 10:27 AM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Larger Engine Oil Filter

[Bob Dunahugh]

The original filters of yesterday for the Olds were longer as I recall. Then the filters got shortened. So this is that longer filter of the pass. Perfect fit, and no hazard of getting hit.

[Joe williams]

I was just looking through the GMCMI parts interchange book and noticed that the oil filter for the 1978 403 is listed as Wix 51045, 77 403 and
earlier 455 are 51049 , whats the difference between these 2 filters , are they interchangeable? I'm a newbie
thanks Joe
--
jwilly

[John R. Lebetski]

Yes Rob "Declined". What is the status of the pedantic oil bypass pressure experiment? Might be interesting to A/B the 2 Wix numbers in the process
and see how or if it changes anything. Cheers.

--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

[Jim Kanomata]

Joe,
They are smaller in diameter and shorter.
Just get the large one and focus on other issues that are more critical.
There is too much information out there that should have never been
published.
You need to understand that I have been reading these since 1980.
Spark plug gap is another one. Don't go over .040", Yes the specs are
showing .080", but you need to know that factory specs, once it is
published, it is almost impossible to correct.

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

[James Hupy]

The original spec. of .080" spark plug gap with HEI was written to help
control emissions. They had no history with the HEI yet. In protracted use,
coil failures and module failures, and insulation breakdown failures reared
their ugly heads. GM modified the system, changing the diameter and height
of the distributor cap, enlarging the diameter of the secondary conductors,
going to silicone insulation and a bunch of other detail stuff, none of
which was 100% effective at solving component failures. Ultimately, they
changed the spec to .040". That achieved the corporate goal of making the
HEI components last longer than the warranty. Just the way it happens. The
larger plug gaps force the ignition coil to build higher voltage before the
fuel/air molecules ionized and allow the spark to jump (and ignite) the
gap. It also places more heat on the ignition coils and modules, shortening
their lives. Now you know.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

[Rob Mueller]

Joe,

I will be heading back to the USA in September and on my way back to Sydney
in the middle of December I'm stopping at Manny's for four days to run the
tests.

Problem is that the pickups for the delta P gage are "t's" in the lines at
the outlet of and the inlet to the oil cooler adapter to measure the
pressure drop across the lines and oil cooler, not the filter.

To measure the pressure drop across the filter I would have to weld a
fitting into the oil filter adapter (high pressure side) and use the
existing fitting on the line going to the oil cooler (low side).

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John R.
Lebetski
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 11:47 PM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Larger Engine Oil Filter

[Rob Mueller]

Joe,

Wix 51049

https://www.onlinefiltersupply.com/products/51049-wix

Wix 51028

https://www.onlinefiltersupply.com/products/51028-wix

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe
williams
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 11:35 PM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Larger Engine Oil Filter

[Joe williams]

OK ,I'm still confused - I was just on the GMCMI parts exchange again and it has a completely different list of oil filters for the 1978 403 vs all
455 and the 77 403. what would be different about the 78 403 that it would need a different filter.
--
jwilly

[Ernest Dankert]

Reason's (in my world) to use a larger filter.
1) More filter media to limit time on bypass during cold start.
2) More filter media to trap grit getting through air filter.
3) More oil volume for extra additive and resulting contaminant dilution.
--
1977 Eleganza II
Ogden NY

[Bob Dunahugh]

Ernest has that right as to a larger filter. As I recall the Olds oil filter that was listed years ago were larger. Bob Dunahugh


________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh <yenk...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 11:46 PM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: RE:Larger Engine Oil Filter

[Rob Mueller]

NOTHING!

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe
williams
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 1:05 AM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Larger Engine Oil Filter

[John R. Lebetski]

It think it's like this. The big block and small block take a different recommended filter. Then ,there is also a longer version of each of those for
HD service.

--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

[rich...@comcast.net]

Using a 2001 Jeep Wrangler as a towd, what could I reasonably expect for a decrease in MPG?

----- Original Message -----

From: "John R. Lebetski" <gransp...@gmail.com>
To: "gmclist" <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 4:28:21 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Larger Engine Oil Filter

[Rob Mueller]

John,

As far as I know there is nothing different in the oil flow path in the 455
or 403. There is a difference in the lines to / from the oil cooler. If I am
incorrect PLEASE correct me.

Bottom line: in my opinion the Wix 51049 is the best filter for either the
403 or 455.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John R.
Lebetski
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 9:28 AM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Larger Engine Oil Filter

It think it's like this. The big block and small block take a different

recommended filter. Then, there is also a longer version of each of those

[Jim Kanomata]

If your running a standard ratio you can notice 3 mpg decrease
Should you have 3.70 you'll have only 1. mpg decreases
I get that. From our customers

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

[John R. Lebetski]

Rob my assumption was that in ACDelco the 455 used the larger diameter PF24 style and the 403 used the smaller PF58 style as does the Olds 307. I
could be wrong there and have no 403 here to look at.

[Rob Mueller]

John,

AHA, I understand, I was only considering the length of the filter not the
diameter!

Bottom line: the oil filter adapter (part that bolts to block) and oil
cooler adapter are the same so the Wix 51049 will fit.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John R.
Lebetski

Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 12:09 PM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Larger Engine Oil Filter

[Rob Mueller]

G'day,

I stand corrected.

I have received an OFF NET message regarding this email from someone who
noted that the oil cooler adapter used on the 455 is different from the 403
and he is correct.

There is a tab on the "top" of the oil cooler adapter that is located
differently on the 455 than the 403.

The tab on the oil cooler adapter goes into a slot in the oil filter base
which clocks the position of the lines differently.

However, this does not affect the installation of the oil filter; the Wix
51049 will fit either installation.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

[Bob Dunahugh]

The Fram PH25 that I've been installing on my 403 is 1 inch shorter then the Wix 51049. Thus the 51049 will by passing less unfiltered oil at the bypass valve. As a note. The Wix 51049 cross references to an AC Delco LAF1881, and a Fram PH11. The Fram PH25 is 4 inches long. The Wix 51049 is 5 inches long. So how long is the AC Delco LAF1881, and the Fram PH11? As another note. On a fresh new engine. You need that longer filter so less oil gets by passed. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale

________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh <yenk...@hotmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 5:25 PM

[Rob Mueller]

Bob,

The amount of oil bypassed is controlled by the bypass valve in the oil filter base which according to MM X-7525 it is set to open
at 5.3 to 6.3 psi (ref.: Page 6A-2).

The pressure drop across the oil filter will contribute to reaching that pressure drop. The pressure drop through the filter is a
function of the micron rating (the lower the micron rating the higher the pressure drop) and the surface area of filter medium (the
smaller the surface area of filter medium the higher the pressure drop). Also as the oil filter medium gets contaminated with
particles the pressure drop goes up.

I've Googled Fram PF-25 but can't find the micro rating anywhere; the Wix 51049 is 21 micron. I was able to find the Fram HP5:
http://www.fram.com/media/64582/fram-racing-filter-sell-sheet.pdf and it has a lower micron rating of 18 micron. It is smaller than
the Wix 51049.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 11:50 PM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org

Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Larger Engine Oil Filter

The Fram PH25 that I've been installing on my 403 is 1 inch shorter then the Wix 51049. Thus the 51049 will by passing less
unfiltered oil at the bypass valve. As a note. The Wix 51049 cross references to an AC Delco LAF1881, and a Fram PH11. The Fram
PH25 is 4 inches long. The Wix 51049 is 5 inches long. So how long is the AC Delco LAF1881, and the Fram PH11? As another note. On a
fresh new engine. You need that longer filter so less oil gets by passed. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale

[gene Fisher]

8 to 10 mpg
Depending on if you tow

--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html

[Bob Dunahugh]

I got 10.2 MPG pulling Linda's 5000lbs Chevy Uplander lift van. With 87 Octane ethanol gas. 78 Royale 403 stock exh, carbureted, and a 3:70 FD. GVW of 17,000lbs. Pulling a car hauler with a car on it. I got 9.8 MPG with a GVW of15,000lbs. So the Uplander seems to have better air flow behind the GMC. With the 3:70 FD. My trans temps went down, and MPG's went up about 1.7 MPG's. That was with the burned GMC. Haven't calculated this 78 Royale 403, and the 3:70 FD yet. Bob Dunahugh

[rich...@comcast.net]

On the last trip. I noticed that while driving UP hill, I feel a slight shudder. Driving DOWN hill, no shudder at all.... What am I looking for?

----- Original Message -----

[Gerald Work]

Inner CV joints going bad will cause this symptom.

Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR

glw...@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
============
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:46:55 +0000 (UTC)
From: rich...@comcast.net
To: gmclist <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org>
Subject: [GMCnet] Steering vibration
Message-ID:
<1251417094.68966015.1500...@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

On the last trip. I noticed that while driving UP hill, I feel a slight shudder. Driving DOWN hill, no shudder at all.... What am I looking for?

==============

[Hal Kading]

Loose bolts at inner CV joint to final drive flange also can cause this vibration. They are the high strength bolts that should be torqued to 75 ft
lbs, IIRC.

Hal Kading 78 Buskirk Las Cruces NM

[rich...@comcast.net]

Thank you for the hint. I'll check them ASAP!

----- Original Message -----

[rich...@comcast.net]

Thank you for the hint. I'll check it out.


----- Original Message -----

[Ken Burton]

richshoop wrote on Sat, 15 July 2017 17:56

> Thank you for the hint. I'll check it out.

From memeory I believe the spec is 65 Ft-lbs. Check the book for sure before you tighten them.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[John Wright]

Ken,
Although the X-7525 MM on 3B-3, col 2, para 4 states that the bolts for the flange should be torqued to 75 FTLBS with NEW bolts. In the 18+ years that I have owned a GMC I have NEVER used a torque value that high, as it does stretch the bolts, see explanation in email below. I was told by the folks at Buskirk’s in spring of 1999 that they never went higher than 65 FTLBS. From that point on I used their recommendation on torque value for the axle flange bolts until Jim Hupy posted this email in 2014 as it was a conversation between Karen the person who wrote the manual for the One-ton and I have used that torque rating with the stock axle flange bolts. See posted below

“Quote”

From: James Hupy james...@gmail.com

Subject: Re: [GMCnetl Black List call

Date: September 11,2014 at 10:22 PM

To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org

Karen, I will change what I tell people with regards to torque values on the bolts on the CV flanges. GO with Karen's Recommendations.

Jim Hupy

A little history on why I changed the one-ton instruction torque for the inner CV bolts.
Yes, the manual says 75 ft-Ibs, which is a lot. It also says you can't re-use the bolts, which makes sense
given this very high torque. I installed ours to 75 ft-Ibs originally, and had that torque in the instructions.
Then, when we had to replace the engine at Manny's house, he complained they were torqued too tight (we had to

undo the axle to clear the oil pan to get the engine out...) So, I started double-checking,
talked to Ken H, did a little research. Both Manny and Ken said 75 ft-Ibs is too high and they never do them that tight.
The various technical docs I found backed them up.

As a result, the one-ton kit instruction now says the following:

"Apply loctite to the inner CV joint bolts and torque them to 55-58 ft Ibs.

(The manual states these should be torqued to 75 ft-Ibs and replaced with new ones if they are removed. However, that exceeds the recommended torque for ASTM Grade A574 bolts, which are stronger than Grade 8.)"

Karen 1975 26’

“End Quote”

This is what I do you’re choices may vary!

JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan