[GMCnet] One ton front end 2500 miles later

[Work Jerry]

With 2500 miles on my one ton front end, the coach set to factory ride height and with all the alignment specs spot on, I have nothing but positive news to report. The coach is very stable on the road, doesn't rut wander and is little bothered by passing trucks. It is softer riding in the front end but does not wallow as I feared it might. The only play in the steering is the roughly 1/8" back and forth slop somewhere from my steering wheel to the knuckles. I did not elect to change out the tie rod ends, but they appear to be tight so the slop is likely upstream from there. The side to side feeling of hopping on uphill acceleration I initially felt is largely gone. I wonder if that was caused by torque steer and I am just getting used to it or if it was the new inner CV joints that needed to wear in a bit. There is a night and day difference in how the coach handles with the proper ride height and alignment and how it handled after the one ton install but before gettin
g the suspension properly to factory spec. I think a lot of those who report ill handling will be amazed at the improvement once they get the ride height set correctly and get the alignment where it should be given that ride height. I am planning on making a bunch of alignment kits over the next couple of weeks so if you want one, be sure to let me know by tomorrow afternoon so I can get the components on order. I won't have a chance to make any more until sometime in November.

Jerry

Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR
Visitors always welcome!
glw...@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
541-592-5360

Founder of the Southern Oregon Guild
www.southernoregonguild.org
Member of the Siskiyou Guild
www.siskiyouguild.org

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[Work Jerry]

I would be remiss if I did not also comment on the radically improved braking performance. Going from the stock brakes to these much larger and more robust front disks made far more difference than I thought it ever would. The coach really does now stop like a car or modern truck and I did not touch the rear drum brakes. They remain dead stock. I would have thought there would be more front dive with the softer front suspension, but I don't notice that at all. Push on the brake peddle and the coach simply stops. No theatrics and no voice in the back of the head asking "is this thing really going to stop or not.....". It just stops when and where you want it to. The improvement is especially noticeable going down a mountain grade. No need to shift down. The brakes will scrub off all the speed you need for good control without any indication of fade. All good stuff from this one ton front end conversion. Thanks Bill H. and Manny T!

Jerry

Jerry and Sharon Work
78 Royale rear lounge
Kerby, OR
glw...@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
541-592-5360

[Glenn Giere]

Jerry,
Tell me more about the alignment kits.

Glenn

[Bruce Hislop]

With 5000 miles on our one ton upgrade I'd have to vote it was the best upgrade so far.(Besides the EBL). We did over 2500 miles to the Maritimes and and New England on some roads that would have thrown us in the ditch before. The one-ton kept us on the narrow winding, broken up, rutted roads without much problem.

Keeping up to traffic and amongst trucks on the highways is no longer a white knuckle experience.

The improvement in braking was outstanding as well.

I bought my one-ton from JimK early in the spring, before the Manny Kit. I like how Jim's kit came with all the parts and pieces I needed to do the conversion. I did the work on a Saturday at my local fleet service garage. I had only 8 hours to get in and out. With the help of one of his mechanics, we had it finished with time to spare. No searching locally for parts, it was all there in Jim's kit.

The only thing missing was the required shorter axle flange bolts for the driver's side. We ended up adding another washer to space the bolts out. Thanks to Ken Henderson I now have some new shorter bolts to properly fasten the axle.

Thanks to Jim for putting together the kit, and thanks as well to Bill Hubler for his ingenuity.

Like Jerry said, it just feels very stable on the road.

--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
Hubler 1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

[Dan Gregg]

Keeping up to traffic and amongst trucks on the highways is no longer a white knuckle experience.

The improvement in braking was outstanding as well.

I bought my one-ton from JimK early in the spring, before the Manny Kit. I like how Jim's kit came with all the parts and pieces I needed to do the conversion. I did the work on a Saturday at my local fleet service garage. I had only 8 hours to get in and out. With the help of one of his mechanics, we had it finished with time to spare. No searching locally for parts, it was all there in Jim's kit.

Thanks to Jim for putting together the kit, and thanks as well to Bill Hubler for his ingenuity.

Like Jerry said, it just feels very stable on the road.

[/quote]

I will second that. A very big AMEN to the stability of the coach.
Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
Soft White LED Lighting

http://danandteri.blogspot.com/

[Jim Kanomata]

I have several owners where we rebuilt their original front end with
2" wheel spacers and 4degree caster and 80mm calipers that have the
same handlimg features as 1 ton system.
When you redo the front properly, they will all show dramatic improvement.
There are some changes that will need to be don sooner or later as Bob
Drews caught some shortcomings.
We sell the Hubler unit with Timkin Bearings and Moog parts and also
Manny's 1 ton units.

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

[Guy Lopes]

Jim,

Just for my reference, how much is Manny's kit? I don't see a price on your web site at www.appliedgmc.com

Guy in Sacramento
Who missed out on the 23' at JimB's...

-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 8:50 PM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] One ton front end 2500 miles later

I have several owners where we rebuilt their original front end with

[Mark Scoble]

Jim K:

What is the difference between the Hubler kit and the Manny kit - functionally and price-wise?
--
Mark Scoble, Lunenburg, MA - 1973 23' Palm Beach Stretched to 32' and in residence at the GMC Co-Op in Orlando, FL

[Jim Kanomata]

Hubler uses the Timkin bearing assy, not the overseas ones,
The arms are welded up more , but it is hard to say how much more it
will serve you and we use the Moog parts,
Manny and I have discussed these Moog parts and find that either has
quality issues.
We stock and sell both.
The Hubler unit goes for $2,500 complete.
Manny's unit is less the calipers, pads and hoses for $1,550.
Lot of people have asked what I run on mine.
I run the 2" spacer with the original set up with grease serts on the
knuckle and use the offset bushing and the Ferguson rebuilt A frame, I
feel I know more than most about setting up the originally front
bearing/knuckle set up, so I feel comfortable with the original.
To think that you can travel 200,000 miles on the bigger bearing is an
expectation I can not endorse.
Even pick ups with the same HD bearings are failing. If not than the
parts would be
On Fri, Shard to find on parts shelve.

-

Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

[Manny Trovao]

Jim, the kit is $1570.00
I don’t include the calipers because I can’t buy in quantities and
there is a core charge for the calipers.
At AutoZone its $22.99 for each caliper and $22.00 for the core.
I also don’t include the pads because of the different pads available.
I like ceramic but some people like carbon metallic, some semi
metallic, some yellow sticky.
The buyer can buy the calipers and pads locally and return the old
caliper as cores.
I include the brake hoses and banjo bolts.
--
Manny Trovao
manny...@gmail.com
Manny's Trans / Power Drive
San Jose, California
408-937-1583

[john arbuckle]

Question,

I was not present for the beginning of this conversation. What one ton
axle did you place on the front of your GMC? Just wondering.
Thank you

John Arbuckle

[Work Jerry]

Hi John,

Bill Hubler in Caldwell, Idaho, developed a retrofit of late model GMC 4wd Suburban and HD truck front end components which replace the Toronado components stock on our GMC motor coaches. Manny Travao found a way to build and source the components for about $1500. You can buy his kit from him or from Jim K and Jim K also sells his own kit as well. You wind up with much beefier front end components, far less frequent maintenance and much larger front rotors and calipers. It basically takes front end maintenance out of your future.

Jerry

Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR
Visitors always welcome!
glw...@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
541-592-5360

Founder of the Southern Oregon Guild
www.southernoregonguild.org
Member of the Siskiyou Guild
www.siskiyouguild.org

--------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 21:57:05 -0700
From: john arbuckle <jarbuc...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [GMCnet] One ton front end 2500 miles later

To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Message-ID:
<CAHvVSqhjv4V=3EnzrKH+OFaXS+z+BOK...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Question,

I was not present for the beginning of this conversation. What one ton
axle did you place on the front of your GMC? Just wondering.
Thank you

John Arbuckle

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Work Jerry <glw...@mac.com> wrote:

> With 2500 miles on my one ton front end, the coach set to factory ride height and with all the alignment specs spot on, I have nothing but positive news to report. ?The coach is very stable on the road, doesn't rut wander and is little bothered by passing trucks. ?It is softer riding in the front end but does not wallow as I feared it might. ?The only play in the steering is the roughly 1/8" back and forth slop somewhere from my steering wheel to the knuckles. ?I did not elect to change out the tie rod ends, but they appear to be tight so the slop is likely upstream from there. ?The side to side feeling of hopping on uphill acceleration I initially felt is largely gone. ?I wonder if that was caused by torque steer and I am just getting used to it or if it was the new inner CV joints that needed to wear in a bit. ?There is a night and day difference in how the coach handles with the proper ride height and alignment and how it handled after the one ton install but before gett
in
> ?g the suspension properly to factory spec. ?I think a lot of those who report ill handling will be amazed at the improvement once they get the ride height set correctly and get the alignment where it should be given that ride height. ?I am planning on making a bunch of alignment kits over the next couple of weeks so if you want one, be sure to let me know by tomorrow afternoon so I can get the components on order. ?I won't have a chance to make any more until sometime in November.

>
> Jerry
>
>
> Jerry Work
> The Dovetail Joint
> Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR
> Visitors always welcome!
> glw...@mac.com
> http://jerrywork.com
> 541-592-5360
>
> Founder of the Southern Oregon Guild

> ? ?www.southernoregonguild.org

> Member of the Siskiyou Guild

> ? ?www.siskiyouguild.org
>
>
--------------------------

[John Wright]

John,
You can see here: http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/635 It
is another great options available for the coach.

JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

On Sep 25, 2011, at 12:57 AM, john arbuckle wrote:

> Question,
>
> I was not present for the beginning of this conversation. What one ton
> axle did you place on the front of your GMC? Just wondering.
> Thank you
>
> John Arbuckle

[Dolph Santorine]

There has been some discussion of shortcomings on this front end from a number of people including JimK

I'm still not clear what they are. The options I understand are upgraded stock and 1 Ton.

Discussion?

Dolph Santorine

ado...@Santorine.org

Excuse me for not being my usual wordy and sporadically verbose self. This message is sent from my iPhone.

No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

[Bruce Hislop]

I have the one-ton front end.

The only "short coming" I know of is, because the distance between the upper and lower ball joint is more on the one ton knuckle, there needs to be a modification done to the upper control arm to compensate so that the upper and lower arms are parallel.

Bob Drewes did an excellent presentation at Goshen on how he modified his upper control arm to compensate for this.

--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
Hubler 1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

[gene Fisher]

>
> Bob Drewes did an excellent presentation at Goshen on how he modified his
> upper control arm to compensate for this.
>

OH yah, we all saw that (not)
it was good it was published (not)

and

StanE's talk indicated that the OEM was not parallel either.

it is a good thing these are all published so we would know if:
- home made systems
- Hubler systems
- Manny systems
- does it make any difference?

just excellent that all this info is held hostage from our experts ;>)

JWIT
gene

--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html

[James Hupy]

Gene, sometimes too much information is not necessarily a good thing.
Remember spandex is a privelage not a right.<Grin>Walk around Wal Mart & use
your imagination. Incidentally, A arms of unequal length are only parallel
at a tiny part of their arc. Equal length A arms have their own set of
problems. Kinda like putting lipstick on a pig, when it is all said and
done, you still have a pig under all that makeup. Impact extruded control
arms on rubber bushings connected to frame tabs welded onto mild steel
frames by high school dropouts ain't exactly precision machinery. Nuff said.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403

[Gary Berry]

Hey Dolph;

Not sure if there are any shortcomings as yet as I only have had
Manny's 1-Ton unit installed for about 500 miles, but someone else did
mention some. I don't know if the overseas bearings are anything to
worry about as yet, but if they last 100k miles, then that should get
me to age 72 (hope to make it). If they don't, it looks like I can
easily replace easily accessible parts from the Chevy/GMC dealer (or
AutoZone or Manny or any junkyard). I have a 97 4x4 Chevy Crew-Cab
1-Ton diesel with the same frontend that has 167k miles on it with no
one touching the front bearings (don't know which bearings it uses)
and I do have expectations of running 200k miles or more with it. I
like how the Manny lower control arms are welded with a single strap
that goes from one side across the top and down the other side with
another piece welded across the bottom. It would seem to me to be
stronger than using the 4 pieces of stock welded on each side that the
other unit uses. The Moog balljoint problem appears to be a non issue
as both folks think the same about them as the non-Moog units. I
thought the Hubler unit was closer to the $3k dollar mark, so it looks
like the price has dropped a little which is good for us. I never
really liked any of the mods to add zerks or a third bearing or
spacers as an upgrade to the stock frontend cause one still winds up
with the stock components and most of the same worries. That's it for
me...

On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Dolph Santorine
<do...@dolphsantorine.com> wrote:
> There has been some discussion of shortcomings on this front end from a number of people including JimK
> I'm still not clear what they are. The options I understand are upgraded stock and 1 Ton.
> Discussion?
> Dolph Santorine

--
Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.

[KB]

All the ball joints in Manny's kit are Moog. Here is the parts list:

http://www.machinesoflovinggrace.net/gmc/frontend/index.php?p=KitParts

Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'

[Rob Mueller]

Gary,

Not to be a naysayer vis-à-vis the one ton front end and I don't know if it makes any difference to bearing life or not but the
front suspension of a GMC supports 4000+ lbs. What's on the front end of your 97 4x4 Chevy Crew-Cab 1-Ton diesel?

Yes, I am aware that the one ton front end wheel bearings are much larger than the OEM GMC bearings.

Yes, I realize that the OEM bearings in the GMC were for a Toronado that weighed about 4000 lbs all up!

Regards,
Rob M.

Hey Dolph;

--
Gary

[mr.er...@gmail.com]

And
And

Support weight is the torsion bar

Not the bearings

Gene

FREE WIFI @ Mickey D

[Rob Mueller]

Gene,

Sung to the tune "Dry Bones."

Dem tire bones is connected to dem wheel bones

Dem wheel bones is connected to dem hub bones

Dem hub bones is connected to them bearing bones

Dem bearing bones roll around dem axle bones

Dem axle bones is connected to dem knuckle bones

Dem knuckle bones is connected to dem upper and lower control arm bones

And dem upper and lower control arm bones is connected to dat frame bone

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of mr.er...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, 26 September 2011 11:23 AM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] One ton front end 2500 miles later

[Dennis Sexton]

Rob,

So, the knee must still be bothering you!

Dennis
73 GMC

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 25, 2011, at 8:41 PM, "Rob Mueller" <robmu...@iinet.net.au>
wrote:

> Gene,

[sgl...@gmail.com]

My 00 f350 4x4 diesel long bed crew has 175k on it now. It has been driven as stolen since new. It has a hub-bearing assy with no separately serviceable bearing. The first hub and bearing assy went bad at about 75k and cost $350. The second one was just replaced this weekend at 175k and cost closer to $400. The part cost is high but there is no maint interval to worry about and the time to R+R the hub is minimal. If the 1 ton kit has a hub/bearing assy that bolts on (as I am led to believe from the posts and photos) then even if it goes tu at 50k who cares? Its readily available,easy to instal and does not require special tools or constant inspection.

Jwit

Sully
77 royale
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Rob Mueller" <robmu...@iinet.net.au>
Sender: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 11:17:00
To: <gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org>
Reply-To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] One ton front end 2500 miles later

[Work Jerry]

Hard to jump back into this one as there seem to be many who have established a conclusion in search of a question here........

I will be writing a paper shortly on my take on this upgrade. Those who want to believe it is bad should do so. Those who want to ask what is being addressed should do so. Those who want to question what we know for sure about what I believe is a significant upgrade should wait. Time will tell. For me it is an easy choice. For over 30 years the Toronado front end designed for a 5000 pound car and then pressed into service in a 12,000 motorcoach has been nearly bullet proof. The issue is these components are nearing the end of their useful live. Some have found ways to extend that useful life. Some have not.

In five or ten years we will know whether this upgrade is good or bad. In the mean time I will enjoy the much larger rotors, much more robust hubs, knuckles, cv joints and bearings. No science here, my coach stops far better than it ever did before. I like that. My coach feels stable and robust on the road. I like that. I have taken front end maintenance out of my maintenance future. i like that.

Lots to niggle about here as none of us know what the long term holds. If your front end components continue to serve you well, do that. If you want a different future, maybe a better one, this is a valuable upgrade. Thanks to Manny T. it is also an affordable one. Hope this helps.

Jerry

Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR
Visitors always welcome!
glw...@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
541-592-5360

Founder of the Southern Oregon Guild
www.southernoregonguild.org
Member of the Siskiyou Guild
www.siskiyouguild.org

[Dan Gregg]

Dolph, not sure where you heard about any shortcomings. I have about 3500 miles on mine and still rolling. Those large front rotors really help my reaction arm setup, no doubt about it.

Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
Soft White LED Lighting

http://danandteri.blogspot.com/

[Rob Mueller]

Dennis,

On and off!

Regards,
Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Sexton

Rob,

So, the knee must still be bothering you!

Dennis
73 GMC

[Jim Kanomata]

Jerry,
No disrespect you or others, but comparison of the assembly to the
pure stock front with deteriorated A frame grommets and poor alignment
are not a fair comparison.
We put the Hubler front end on a coach that we rebuilt their front end
and installed the 2" spacer and and off set bushings a year before.
The reaction from the customer was that there was not any difference
to even discuss.
We find the same reaction when we install the Mandrel bent 3" exhaust system.
Those who had a poor system tell us how much difference it did. While
others that had a good working system could not really give us the
feedback we would like to hear.
I cannot feel but think that were overselling the system to the rest
of the community.
I am in the position to install any and all system on my coach, I have
run our competitors equipment to feel for myself on my personal coach
on few occasion.
I get the same performance from the standard unit with 2" spacer,80mm
caliper, grease fittings on the knuckle,and offset bushings.
I have test driven the Hubler system and know how it is along with the
standard one that has been redone to our specs.

-
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

[Steve]

About 2 weeks ago, I purchased a 78 Royale that was not running, mostly gutted, almost no brakes, bad rubber all the way around, etc, etc. It's probably not been run in over 10 years.

After all new hoses, belts, fluids, water pump, tires, tranny cooler lines (and on and on) finally today, I got it running well enough to drive it around in the storage lot. Yee hah! This thing is fun!

I have some questions:
   The pulley on the power steering pump is wobbling. I'm assuming that the pump shaft is bent and need a whole new pump. Are there any tricks to replacing the it?
   The brakes barely stop the unit from 10mph. There's not much peddle at all and pumping makes no difference. Anyone have basic trouble shooting  advise. I can't really afford to just start replacing everything.
   I found a large gash in one of the AC hoses. I'm sure the hose can be replaced easily, but what's it going to cost to recharge this thing...or should I upgrade to the new refrigerant or should I just ditch the AC all together (not much need for it around here)?
   I was told that this is a "Royale" but I see "Eleganza" on some original paperwork. Whats the deal?

Thanks
Steve

[Rob Mueller]

Steve,

I would suggest start by checking the Maintenance Manual. If you don't have a copy you can download it here and check the
appropriate sections.

http://www.bdub.net/factory-manuals.html

I AM NOT trying to be a pain, however, if you take a bit of time and read up on the systems that have the problems you will gain
some basic knowledge and will be better able to understand answers that are provided here.

Here's a couple more websites you can peruse to gather info:

http://www.bdub.net/GMCLinks.html

There's a link on the website above that has Brochures on the various models that you can download and see if your GMC is an
Eleganza or a Royale.

and

http://gmcmotorhome.info/

This website has tons of technical info on all the GMC's systems.

Regards,
Rob M.

[Jim Kanomata]

Steve,
The replacement pulley are hard to come by, suggest you try straighten
it the best you can.

--

Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

[Larry Davick]

Steve,

I suppose I'd be inclined to replace the power steering pump and the pulley on the alternator with a double pulley. Then you'll have two belts on both the power steering and the alternator. The power steering pump powers both the power steering and the windshield wipers, so you want it to work. Pay attention to the width of the belts and read all that you can, Rob pointed out some very good places to start.

Brakes? One of the fellows here sells a very inexpensive pressure bleeder that uses garden sprayer components. With this you'll certainly be able to bleed your brake system, and since you say you've replaced everything else, I'm guessing it still needs to be bled.

Air conditioning? Don't bother getting too fancy. Replace the hoses, the dryer, pull a vacuum (to make sure the system is sealed and dry) and add 3 cans of Duracool. Totally environmentally friendly and extremely efficient.

Please add some information about yourself in your signature, and maybe even your VIN (TZE number).

Welcome,

Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA

[Steve Southworth]

Steve[3

> wrote on Mon, 26 September 2011 00:04]I have some questions:
>    The pulley on the power steering pump is wobbling. I'm assuming that the pump shaft is bent and need a whole new pump. Are there any tricks to replacing the it?
>   

> Thanks
> Steve

Unlikely it is the pump shaft, more likely the pulley is bent. The pulley is a PITA to get off and a new one may be hard to find, as JimK said. No tricks to getting the pump off just also a PITA. Read the MM for how to do it. If you still have questions ask away.

Now for a bit of housekeeping. You started a new thread by replying to an email and changing the title. Therefore on the forum your message is buried in a thread on the 1 ton front end. It's best to start a new thread with a fresh email so it doesn't get lost. Also as a reminder to the Forum users, don't correct a posting, the email readers won't see it nor will they see any header information, put location and coach info in a signature tag line.

--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI

[gene Fisher]

> I cannot feel but think that were overselling the system to the rest
> of the community.
>

----------------------------
I don't think so:

This is a perfect upgrade for our Value-added Vendors to install. ( a huge
business opportunity)
http://www.gmcmotorhome.info/front.html

This is not really a performance upgrade, (although there are significant
performance improvements) this is a direction for the future for GMC's.

read the literature, and make your own decisions.

*Current GMC front-end technology has a limited future*
- CV and universal joints, are no longer available new;
- New bearings , seals, etal, are becoming hard to find
- New axles are not available, and old parts are hard to find
- Poorly Rebuilt axles (using old parts),with machining that destroys the
oil grove in the CV joint
- Worn GMC knuckles ( no longer available) are often not repairable.
- Front Bearing repair is not widely available, ( special bearing puller
required)
- Rework every 30,000 miles vs 200,000 on the V-II
- Lower Control arms ( no longer available) have weak, ball joints and
bushings, read here:
http://www.gmcws.org/Tech/Front_Suspension_Rebuild.pdf

So, *If It Works Don't Fix It*, but, when it becomes time for front end
upgrades, (bearings, The Zerk, bushings, reinforcement, ball joint, brakes,
axles,etc), for $1570 in parts, you might want to consider the One Tone
V-II.

gene

>
>
> -
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> ji...@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
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--

Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html

[Johnny Bridges]

What, do the bars levitate the coach?
 
--johnny
 

From: "mr.er...@gmail.com" <mr.er...@gmail.com>
To: "gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] One ton front end 2500 miles later

[Dan Gregg]

What Gene said is what I tell folks when they ask me about the new one ton under our coach. I had a near perfect driving coach before. Took 5 years to get it that way. So, the one ton did not improve it. Can't. Well, it did stop the "blow by" of the semis when they pass by. And, it makes it feel "healthier". It either drives right or it doesn't.
I had 30k on our bearings and knew the time was coming to maintain them, even though I had the grease zerks. It was always in the back of my mind. We did the one ton for the "future". I am no longer thinking about pulling bearings with the puller I carried and did not know how to use. This frontend can be maintained by Teri and me in our driveway with no special tools. Makes it much more enjoyable to use. Many on here are excellent mechanics and would not think twice about changing the old bearings on the side of the road but I am not one of those guys. I hated just changing the plow sweeps when it rained cause I wanted to go to town. See why I am not a farmer?
Welcome to Steve. Let us know where you are located.

Dan
--
Dan & Teri Gregg
Soft White LED Lighting

http://danandteri.blogspot.com/

[Work Jerry]

Hi Jim,

The thing I have stressed the most is getting ride height set correctly and getting alignment set correctly. That will make more difference in the driving experience and safety than most any mod to the front end components unless they are worn out in the first place. I have also stressed that my coach drove well before the one ton install and drives well after the one ton install.

The big difference is the brake rotors are considerably larger on the one ton set up. That, coupled with the factory designed correct caliper, makes for significantly better braking performance than is possible with the stock set up from my experience and I was previously using the new pads and sensitized booster you recommend on my stock set up. So, I have a direct comparison to go by. We put a lot of miles on our coach and the demonstratively better front brakes are noticeable to both Sharon and to me as we go down the road.

I don't think it is "over selling" to share my reasons for doing the one ton conversion - taking the front end out of my maintenance future. Nor do I think it is "over selling" to say that our 30 plus year old special application hubs, knuckles, bearings, and CV joints are no match for more modern, larger and more easily available general purpose components designed for heavy vehicle use like our 12,000 pound coaches instead of components originally designed for use in 5000 pound cars. That is my take, anyway. Only time will tell if this turns out to be a good long term improvement.

I don't have any experience with the difference between your on ton conversion kit and the one Manny supplies as I have only used and driven the one Manny supplies.

Thanks for your observations and experience, and thanks for the civil tone in your disagreement. That is healthy for the good of our community.

Jerry

Jerry and Sharon Work
78 Royale rear lounge
Kerby, OR
glw...@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
541-592-5360

-------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:18:25 -0700
From: Jim Kanomata <jimka...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [GMCnet] One ton front end 2500 miles later

To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Message-ID:
<CAMAjevUMGftYDcX6bCx8TPZM...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Jerry,
No disrespect you or others, but comparison of the assembly to the
pure stock front with deteriorated A frame grommets and poor alignment
are not a fair comparison.
We put the Hubler front end on a coach that we rebuilt their front end
and installed the 2" spacer and and off set bushings a year before.
The reaction from the customer was that there was not any difference
to even discuss.
We find the same reaction when we install the Mandrel bent 3" exhaust system.
Those who had a poor system tell us how much difference it did. While

others that had a good working system could not really give us the
feedback we would like to hear.

I cannot feel but think that were overselling the system to the rest
of the community.

I am in the position to install any and all system on my coach, I have
run our competitors equipment to feel for myself on my personal coach
on few occasion.
I get the same performance from the standard unit with 2" spacer,80mm
caliper, grease fittings on the knuckle,and offset bushings.
I have test driven the Hubler system and know how it is along with the
standard one that has been redone to our specs.

-

Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

---------------------------------

[Dolph Santorine]

All:

Lots of spirited discussion on this thread, and great information from everyone.

Since I have yet to make a decision, let me repeat what I heard from the community, for the good of the community.

Given a front end/driveline in good condition (and with the 80mm calipers), upgrading will not result in a noticeable improvement in tracking and driving. (and it's perfectly consistent with my classic car/race car experience).

If you have to bring your front end up to standard, it's most likely a good time to step to the more modern components due to availability, reliability and to get one more issue off your maintenance/spares to carry list.

As for "overselling", obsessing over a 35+ year old motorhome is not necessarily a pursuit measured purely in dollars and sense. I think there is a piece of the "fun to funds" factor that tilts toward "overbuying".

Thank everyone for the collective wisdom, and for not succumbing to the petty bull for which the internet is known.

Dolph Santorine

DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
do...@dolphsantorine.com

1977 GMC 26' Palm Beach
TZE167V100820

1976 GMC 26' Donor Coach
TZE166V101610

[John R. Lebetski]

On the BRAKES topic burried in this hijacked thread... We'd need a little more info. You'd probably have to have a 'look see' at just about everything from the fluid level and condition (you did allready do that right?) to the booster to the possible stuck calipers from sitting and on and on, mostly rust and corrosion issues. There is one Trick thing to check that can't easily be seen and that's the 'arterial sclorosis' of the front/rear rubber brake hoses. They may look OK on the outside but swell and neck down inside often acting as a check valve believe it or not. Replacement is the only safe cure. welcome and good luck.
--
John Lebetski
Chicago, IL
77 Eleganza II

[Jim Kanomata]

There are several people that have not addressed the upgrade. Jim
Bounds, Burt Curtis, Dave Lenzi, and others.
They are staying away for reasons as they do not want to be bad
mouthed by those that feel they understand the system more .
.
I on the other side feel that I have been around these coaches since
1980 and have logged over million miles plus I have more depth of
knowledge in this area than those that have had the coach for a short
period compared to me.
We sell and service these kits so I can sit back and shut up.

.

[Keith V]

Well I just redid my front Hubs, Well Lenzi did...I bolted them back on.
I used 80mm calipers and it stops decently.
I was second guessing myself that maybe I should have gone 1 ton, but Jims comments make me feel much better.

My coach drives wonderfully, very little tramlining very little blow by. It does have a little pull to the right, but thats just height and alignment.

Since I can only hope for a few thousand miles a year, I doubt I'll wear out my new hubs before I retire.

If something does fail, I might just go 1 ton.
but for now, long live the King.
--
Keith
69 Vette
29 Dodge
75 Royale GMC

[Jim Kanomata]

Kieth,
My rant on this topic mainly to tell people that there are options and
they should consider them before they make the jump.

--

Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502