[GMCnet] SS water heater

[tom geiger]

Well had no hot water on our camping outing at a local state park outside of KC. I think it was certainly our doing. We still have the light switch
power switch for the hot water that I think we forgot to turn off. The waterheater is the round SS tank that Jim K sells. Very well made tank! So
my question are, is the heating element something I can get at the local hardware store? I checked Jim’s web page and did not see anything on it.
Second, is there a way you guys setup your water heater to come on only when the temp of water is needed. Doing that might help with not burning a
element up when I forget to shut it off.

Thanks,
TG
--
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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[Jon Roche]

Pretty much all the parts for that waterheater other then the tank itself and the blue ends, can be bought cheap at hardware or big box home
improvement store. Many people buy a 220v element.
--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

[Randy Van Winkle]

tgeiger wrote on Sun, 17 October 2021 08:20

> Well had no hot water on our camping outing at a local state park outside of KC. I think it was certainly our doing. We still have the light
> switch power switch for the hot water that I think we forgot to turn off. The waterheater is the round SS tank that Jim K sells. Very well made
> tank! So my question are, is the heating element something I can get at the local hardware store? I checked Jim’s web page and did not see
> anything on it. Second, is there a way you guys setup your water heater to come on only when the temp of water is needed. Doing that might help
> with not burning a element up when I forget to shut it off.
>
> Thanks,
> TG

Tom, The element can be obtained at any hardware or big box store. The hot water heater should have a thermostat that will control the level of heat
only running the element when it calls for a heat cycle. When you take the cover off of the front of the water heater you can get at the element.
Also, you can check to make sure you have the thermostat. The wiring should go to a set of terminals above the element with wires that then connect
up to the element. If the main wires go directly to the element then perhaps someone removed or failed to install the thermostat (a no, no). The most
common issue that I have experienced with the element burning out is to turn the hot water heater after I have winterized by draining the tank. The
element will not survive if energized with no water.
--
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO

[Randy Van Winkle]

rvanwin wrote on Sun, 17 October 2021 12:18

I replaced the light switch for the hot water heater with a timer turning it on prior to needing hot water then it turns off automatically.

[Jim Kanomata]

All you need is to call us as we get back to all with technical assistance.
you guys make it sound as thou were only good for parts.
Being Sunday, I already assisted three people solve some technical issues.
You do not get that from any other suppliers.

On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 10:22 AM Randy Van Winkle <rlva...@gmail.com>
wrote:

--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502

[Trevor Pordage]

If replacing with a 220 volt element make sure it is a approximately 4000 Watts
--
Trevor
Brisbane Australia
Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moores)
71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project

[D C _Mac_ Macdonald]

Ohm's Law will tell you that with half voltage
applied, half current will result. That means
approximately 1000 Watts of heating will occur.
That is plenty enough to heat your water and
give a far greater lifespan of the heating element,
probably at least ten times as long as a 120 Volt
element.

You still can't run your electric water heater without
water in it!

D C "Mac" Macdonald
19076 ex-Palm Beach
Oklahoma City, OK

Member GMCMI and GMC Classics

________________________________
From: Trevor Pordage <5758br...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 15:55
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org>
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: SS water heater

[Jim Kanomata]

Mac,
I'm glad that some of you are still on the ball and able to recall the
basic physics and apply them.
In the last 12 years, I found myself buying into some theory that was
opposite of what we knew in engineering.
At least at 79 , I'm still moving around.😃

On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 3:22 PM D C _Mac_ Macdonald <k2...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502

[D C _Mac_ Macdonald]

Hi, Jim.

I'm 83 and my wife Judy is 81! Still kicking around here!

D C "Mac" Macdonald
Amateur Radio K2GKK
Since 30 November '53
USAF and FAA, Retired
Member GMCMI & Classics
Oklahoma City, OK
"The Money Pit"
TZE166V101966
'76 ex-Palm Beach
k2gkk + hotmail dot com

________________________________
From: Jim Kanomata <jimka...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 17:53

> Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moore's)

> 71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
> 58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project
> _______________________________________________

--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com

[Jim Kanomata]

Mac,
Keep it up.

On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 4:16 PM D C _Mac_ Macdonald <k2...@hotmail.com>

http://www.gmcrvparts.com

[Ken Burton]

I think you guys are getting confused by the various switches and thermostats available and used in electric water heaters.

First, the normal light switch type not mounted on the heater itself and is for completely turning off the heater. If you do not do this when the
tank is drained (empty) you willl burn uo the heating element.

Second, there are two types that are mounted directly to the heater'e shell. They monitor the water and heater shell temperature. They are usually
called high and low temp switches.

The high temp switch is a safety device and usually shuts off the electric if the temperature exceeds 180F degrees and usually has a push button
reset. You do NOT want one of these installed if you have the engine coolant also heating your water. This is especially true if you have a 195F
engine thermostat. (I use a 180 in mine.) So if you have a reset button, throw it away and replace it with the following type.

The last type is the low temperature type. This one turns on when the water temp is too cold allowing the heater element to run and heat your water.
(It does not have a reset button) This one turns on when the water is below it's set temperature and usually heats the water to 120 to 135 degrees.
Then it shuts off. Some brands allow some temperature adjustment. So you definitely want a low temperature type mounted against the tank of your
water heater.

You can get these at your local Lowes, Home Depot, and Menards stores. I just saw a refresh kit on line at Lowes that included two 4000 watt 220v
elements, and both switches for $29.00 (Throw the high temp switch away.)

I believe it takes a 1.5" socket to replace the element.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[tom geiger]

Thanks Randy, I will have to take the bathroom hot water cover off to get a look at the end of it. I’m pretty sure I was the cause of this and
will more likely have to replace the element. I would like to put a timer on the power switch because I just forget. I do have the engine heater
hose running back to it and I believe I have a 195 thermostat. I guess I’m not understanding the 220v upgrade? If it requires a 50amp source I
thought our coaches are 120v 30amp? Not sure I want to exceed the original design intent of the wiring of the coach. I’m not a electrical guy
which makes me more cautious of electrical changes. The current element gave plenty of hot hot water.

Thanks all,

TG
--
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO

[Matt Colie]

Notes are in line...

tgeiger wrote on Mon, 18 October 2021 08:51
> Thanks Randy, <SNIP>
> I guess I’m not understanding the 220v upgrade? **You are changing the voltage, just the element rating.
> If it requires a 50amp source I thought our coaches are 120v 30amp? **You won't use it with 220V - Just the 120 that is there.
> Not sure I want to exceed the original design intent of the wiring of the coach. **You will actually be reducing the power draw of the heater.
> I’m not a electrical guy which makes me more cautious of electrical changes. **Read what KenB or KenH write it is good.
> The current element gave plenty of hot hot water. **If you install the 4K@240V element, you will still get nearly the same amount of hot water.
>
> Thanks all,
> TG

So, go for it

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Ken Burton]

Without confusing you with the math. If you install the 240 volt 4000 watt element it will only consume 1/4 of the power it is designed to handle
(1000 watts) when connected to 120 volts.

They cost about the same and are more robust and less likely to ever burn up. The thing is designed to generate 4000 watts of heat and is only being
used at 1/4 (1000 watt) capacity.

It Will probably still burn up if you try to operate without water in the tank very long because it relies on the water in the tank to carry away the
heat it generates.

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[tom geiger]

Shane, lol it was like you were standing over my shoulder watching me struggle with this heating element not sealing. Hope you plugged your ears.
Anyhow, very timely post cause that is exactly the trouble I was encountering. So I’ll pull the tank back out and remove the element and check
that.
So just a note on the comment on changing out the thermostat to a lower thermostat. The one I bought from Lowes did not match up with mounting plate
of the old one. The old thermostat mounting plate seemed to be mounted to tank by some kind of adhesive RTV rather than a couple of screws like the
new Lowes thermo does. So I read the way to test the thermo with a meter and I got a 0 reading on resistance on the old one so I think its fine. So
I’m going to chase down this o-ring issue on the heating element. This does bring to mind having a red light added to the interior area of the
water heater area to indicate power still being delivered to the water heater?? This might help me remember its on and a quick verification power is
getting over there. Anyhow, thought it might help.
This might also be the time to replace the 5/8” engine heating hoses now I’m in there. Is it best to feed the new hose from the bathroom back out
or from outside up into the bathroom? I remember Jim K said to get some double barbed hose couplings to help with the hose pull through those rough
areas.

[tom geiger]

Went back to my postings and found this from Emery.
Thanks Emery!

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Tom
I disconnected it from the water heater in the bathroom and then drilled a small hole through the hose about 1/2” from the end. I drilled the holes
into the new hose. I put a piece of wire through the holes and attached the two hoses together with the wire. I then wrapped it with duct tape and
then pulled the hose through the wall by pulling the old hose from below while feeding in the new hose in the bathroom. If you just tape it without
using the wire it will probably pull apart inside the wall.

Emery Stora

[tom geiger]

Is it just me or does Menards have the best plumbing department? I went to Westlakes, Lowes & HomeDepo but found what I needed at Menards. The
heating element had the square type washer but this brand had it aside inside the package so that you could use another type of washer. It turned out
to be a round 1 1/4” ID rubber washer that worked. I have other slight leaking issues that I’ll have to clean up. PO used a bunch of threaded
adaptors that multiplied they chance of leakage, which it does so must have been done before Sharkbite came along. Best stuff in plumbing IMHO.
Anyhow, have the water-heater working again. Will finish up the plumbing tomorrow with Sharkbite stuff if I can.

Thanks all,