[GMCnet] Propane conversion
Robert Peesel
I saw a youtube video several weeks ago that had Jim Bounds test driving a GMC that used Propane for fuel. Is there any new information on how that has progressed?
Does propane even have enough stored energy to be a gasoline replacement?
Bob
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Terry Taylor
used to be on the list, not sure if he still is. I have seen Nigel's conversion
and was
impressed with how easily it started.
George Rudawsky
I was under the impression that propane ppower is not that unusual for motorhomes in Europe. No real reason that it won't work, but finding a good location for the propane tanks can be a concern (IMHO).
I haven't read anything about the propane conversion on Jim Bound's Daily Pose for quite a while, but I think that has been on the back burner as the Duramaxx projects are rolling out.
If anyone on the GMCnet is actually running a propane conversion, I'm sure we'd all like to hear how well it's working and what it the cost per mile.
--
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
Rob Mueller
That conversion was done for a guy in England. The GMC is still sitting at
the Coop in Orlando.
It makes sense to convert to LPG in the UK where petrol is currently at:
Avg Min Max
Unleaded: 128.44p 122.9p 142.9p
Super: 135.69p 125.9p 149.9p
Diesel: 133.01p 126.9p 146.9p
LPG: 75.89p 64.9p 86.9p
This is the price per liter in Pence
128.44 Pence = 1.2844 Pounds
1.2844 GBP = 2.05517 USD
1 gallon = 3.785412 liters
2.05517 times 3.785412 = $7.777 per gallon
Using the same formula LPG costs $4.596 per gallon
A gallon of LPG has less "energy" than a gallon of gas so you will burn
more. HOWEVER, the octane rating of LPG is higher therefore you can build an
engine with a higher compression ratio and regain performance.
As I type a Cadillac 500 is on its way to Australia that I will be
converting to run on AutoGas here. AutoGas is 60% Propane and 40% Butane. It
has an octane rating which is the same as premium of around 100 so the
engine is setup with a 10 to 1 compression ratio. The cost of LPG here is
about 50% of petrol. If you remember from the video Jim was commenting on
the exhaust gas temps. LPG burns hotter than gasoline and for engine
longevity it is best to have satellite valve seats and extreme duty valves
in the heads. The first machine shop that worked on the heads in Houston
screwed up and used the wrong valve seats and hit water. I wound up spending
$800 on a pair of heads from Potter Automotive to replace them. Jerry got
the machining right!
Here's a link to Pilot Flying J which shows the cost of fuel. As you can see
the delta cost between LPG and Gasoline is not as much as it is in England
or here in Australia.
http://www.pilottravelcenters.com/Locations/Travel_Centers/Complete_Pricing_
List.aspx?leftTemplate=false
Bottom line: really not worth converting to LPG in the USA and probably not
in Australia either!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
David L Greenberg
One in England, 1 in Canada and 2 in the USA.
David Lee Greenberg
Port St Lucie, FL skype: david.lee.greenberg
Dedicated to the Preservation of the Classic GMC Motorhome
http://GMCmhRegistry.com
http://www.picturetrail.com/gmcregistry
____________________________________________________________
Ring in the New Year.
Start the year off right with a free camera phone from AT&T.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d3c3ecfa9ecb125181m02duc
Mr.erf ERFisher
This is an early conversion that John did himself, when the coach was almost
new.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=10061&cat=3866
Tanks in the pod, propane fill at the OEM propane tank, built his own
propane injector, also has water injection.
gene
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
Norm Bowker
When I sold my EL 2 in 85 thru a dealer, it was converted to dual fuel. At that time there wasn't any sales tax on propane powered vehicles. The tank was changed to a dual outlet tank [vapour & liquid]. It would go about 80 mi. on propane & then switch back to gas. So maybe there were 2 in Canada.
Norm
Terry Taylor
On 1/23/2011 6:29 AM, David L Greenberg wrote:
> I show at leat 4 coaches that have been converted to propane.
> One in England, 1 in Canada and 2 in the USA.
>
David L Greenberg
On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 09:15:09 -0800 (PST) Norm Bowker <bow...@rogers.com>
writes:
> Dave.
> When I sold my EL 2 in 85 thru a dealer, it was converted to dual
> fuel. At that time there wasn't any sales tax on propane powered
> vehicles. The tank was changed to a dual outlet tank [vapour &
> liquid]. It would go about 80 mi. on propane & then switch back to
> gas. So maybe there were 2 in Canada.
> Norm
>
CA.
David Lee Greenberg
Port St Lucie, FL skype: david.lee.greenberg
Dedicated to the Preservation of the Classic GMC Motorhome
http://GMCmhRegistry.com
http://www.picturetrail.com/gmcregistry
____________________________________________________________
Globe Life Insurance
$1* Buys $50,000 Life Insurance. Adults or Children. No Medical Exam.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d3c8f9620538125ce5m02duc
David L Greenberg
On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:03:26 -0800 Terry Taylor <n6...@pacbell.net>
writes:
> Dave, there are 2 in England, Pete Watkers and Nigel Wildes.
>
> On 1/23/2011 6:29 AM, David L Greenberg wrote:
> > I show at leat 4 coaches that have been converted to propane.
> > One in England, 1 in Canada and 2 in the USA.
> >
One in CAN, ex Norm Bowker coach
4 in the USA, CA, TX, OR, MI
The numbers are growing.......BTW, the Registry is at 8,050 today!
David Lee Greenberg
Port St Lucie, FL skype: david.lee.greenberg
Dedicated to the Preservation of the Classic GMC Motorhome
http://GMCmhRegistry.com
http://www.picturetrail.com/gmcregistry
____________________________________________________________
Globe Life Insurance
$1* Buys $50,000 Life Insurance. Adults or Children. No Medical Exam.
Roger Black
you were trying to hit 300 or so. <G>
Roger Black
77 Birchaven
Burns, Tn
Larry Davick
Larry Davick
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 22, 2011, at 9:03 PM, "Rob Mueller" <robmu...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> AutoGas is 60% Propane and 40% Butane.
Matt Colie
ljdavick wrote on Sun, 23 January 2011 17:59
> Rob said "AutoGas is 60% Propane and 40% Butane." isn't that nearly the same as duracool? And they sell it at the pump.
>
> Larry Davick
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 22, 2011, at 9:03 PM, "Rob Mueller" <robmu...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> > AutoGas is 60% Propane and 40% Butane.
I'm surprised Emery didn't jump here....
HC12A is approximately 70% propane and 30% ISO-butane.
The ISO is short for Isomer and means it has the same number of atoms of the same stuff, but they are stuck together different. And, the propane and ISObutane in the refrigerant has to be WAY more pure that fuel grade stuff.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air)
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
LARRY L CALHOUN
Dave if Peter and Nigel there is also the Ellis Coach in England. I don't know if Graham has sold his after his Dad past away.
--
Larry Calhoun GMC Cascader 76 Glenbrook Osburn ID.
David L Greenberg
On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 22:07:44 -0600 LARRY L CALHOUN <lcalc...@juno.com>
writes:
>
>
> Dave if Peter and Nigel there is also the Ellis Coach in England. I
> don't know if Graham has sold his after his Dad past away.
> --
> Larry Calhoun GMC Cascader 76 Glenbrook Osburn ID.
>
I'll double check with Graham.
David Lee Greenberg
Port St Lucie, FL skype: david.lee.greenberg
Dedicated to the Preservation of the Classic GMC Motorhome
http://GMCmhRegistry.com
http://www.picturetrail.com/gmcregistry
____________________________________________________________
Grant Funding May Be Available to Those That Qualify.
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Roel
Our coach is running on LPG, in Holland you actually have to, as the price of regular gas is twice the price of LPG. LPG is not that widely used as the roadtax is much higher with LPG but vehicles older than 25 yrs are tax exempt.
On the latest trip we did 4km per liter that's 10 mpg, so you don't really notice the difference in energy/volume between LPG and gas, at least not with such a big engine.
We use IMPCO parts as these are a regular fit for the bigger engines, you need a two stage convertor and a mixer that fits on top of the carburator under the airfilter, this means you have to raise the enginehatch with about three inches.
We have two tanks installed, paralleled making 200 liters, one under the table and one standing in the closet.
It's a clean burn and even the exhaust smells nice... motoroil keeps its golden color, does not get black as with using gas. It does run hotter on the valves and exhaust manifold but have not had any problems with that.
Brgds.,
Roel
--
GMC 230 Painted Desert '73
Chevrolet C-10 stepside '65
Chrysler PT Cruiser 2001 ltd edition
Güldner ADN '57
Ken Henderson
Now that's the type of first-hand, thorough report we like!
We all know what your American vehicles are, but what's a "Güldner ADN '57"?
Photos?
Thanks,
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Roel wrote:
>
>
> Our coach is running on LPG, in Holland you actually have to, as the price
> of regular gas is twice the price of LPG. ...
Roger Black
C'mon, Ken, everyone knows that's a small farm tractor. <G>
Roger Black
77 Birchaven
Burns, Tn
Larry Davick
Larry Davick
Sent from my iPad
David H. Jarvis
ljdavick wrote on Tue, 25 January 2011 08:10
No.
A litre is equal to a US quart.
So he gets 4 km to a quart, or 16 km to a US gallon.
16 km equals 10 miles.
--
"I've always been crazy, but it kept me from going insane"
D C *Mac* Macdonald
Very close to 3.78 liters per US gallon, if you want to revisit your calculations.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: jarv...@shaw.ca
> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 10:41:26 -0600
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane conversion
>
>
>
> ljdavick wrote on Tue, 25 January 2011 08:10
> > That 10 mpg must be Imperial gallons and not US gallons - no?
> >
> > Larry Davick
> > Sent from my iPad
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
Ken Henderson
Pretty cute, ain't it?
Ken H.
Rob Mueller
Thanks for this information I now know that the Caddy 500 will get around
the same mileage as that Olds 455. It'll probably perform a bit better as
I've set it up with a 10 to 1 compression ratio.
Is the LPG in Holland a mix of LPG and Butane like it is here in Australia?
Here it's 60% Propane and 40% butane?
When I doing research into converting the Caddy 500 to AutoGas I found out
that the valve seats were induction hardened and they "probably" would
handle the higher temps OK. As I understand it the valve seats in the Olds
455 are the same. However, the valves on the other hand would have a bit
harder time. The best thing to do was to install satellite valve seats and
use extreme duty valves (like the ones used in dragster/funny car engines).
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Roel
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 1:55 AM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane conversion
Roger Black
I was just quicker on the search. It is a nice looking tractor.
Mark Scoble
I think Rob M. meant to say "Stellite" valve seats rather than Satellite, which before today was never heard of in my circles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellite
I too would like to eventually power all of my internal-combustion machines to run on LPG just because of the cleaner operating and longer engine life expectations. It will only happen if I can get a Dave Lenzi 8.1L with liquid propane injection, though and only if I can afford to get the coach finished in all other respects.
I posted a lot of LPG engine power articles on the GMC Photo site for anyone wishing to learn about the "factory" GM 8.1L LPG power package entitled "Alternative Fuels for the GMC".
My User Name is "Firefly", just as it is here. I am also starting to upload pictures of the stretch, from day one to the Co-Op - as soon as I rename the files and prepare some juicy descriptions.
--
Mark Scoble, Augusta, Maine - 1973 23' Palm Beach Stretched to 32' and undergoing complete renovation at the GMC Co-Op
Larry Davick
I wonder what the differences between cng and propane are as a motor fuel.
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
The Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
dkoug
Couple of differences
Propane vehicles not allowed in garages, underground parking, any where
it would be enclosed.
The reason Propane is heavier than air and pools on the floor.
If it moves to say a furnace or starting a vehicle creates a spark, boom.
Propane vehicles where popular in the early 80ies I believe as the
government of Canada subsidized the conversion. Also some manufactures
provided it as an option in Canada.
Natural gas advantage is that if it escapes, it rises and dilutes in the
atmosphere.
A neat and powerful conversion done by a guy in Victoria was mounting a
300 cu in ford 6 cylinder beside a gm 6 (believe a 292). put thru a gm
transmission. He put this in a semi and could out drag, out perform any
diesel semi an a much lower fuel cost.
Oh a also know the the City of Vancouver, BC has been running a fleet of
Natural gas buses.
An at the cost of a couple of low cost 6 cylinders.
Anyone as too why these two perpendicular engines.
dkoug
Norm Bowker
The government subsidy was no sales tax on dual fuel, straight propane or natural gas powered vehicles. On a new $70,000 s.o.b , the buyer could save a couple thou by converting to dual fuel. Every night when the shop closed, the tech. had to sign off the work order that the tanks where shut off. We never had a propane smell in the shop.
Norm
D C *Mac* Macdonald
Quite a few Oklahoma farmers have converted
at least some of their vehicles to propane.
They have huge tanks to heat their houses
and barns, and it's simple to tap off that
propane and not pay any "motor fuel tax"
on the propane that they use. I think many
of those conversions are dual fuel.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
----------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 17:48:47 -0800
> From: bow...@rogers.com
> To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane conversion
>
Emery Stora
On Jan 25, 2011, at 7:29 PM, D C *Mac* Macdonald <k2...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Quite a few Oklahoma farmers have converted
> at least some of their vehicles to propane.
> They have huge tanks to heat their houses
> and barns, and it's simple to tap off that
> propane and not pay any "motor fuel tax"
> on the propane that they use. I think many
> of those conversions are dual fuel.
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
HOWEVER, it is illegal to do that.
Even now, if you fill up your motorhome propane tanks with propane at,
say, Flying J, you have to certify that the propane is not for your
engine, or else you have to pay the road use taxes which are the Sam's
as if you were filling up with gasoline.
Emery Stora
Rob Mueller
Yup! Thanks!
Stellite is harder than the hinges of hell!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Scoble
I think Rob M. meant to say "Stellite" valve seats rather than Satellite,
which before today was never heard of in my circles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellite
-
Mark
Matt Colie
ljdavick wrote on Tue, 25 January 2011 19:56
> Any thoughts on compressed natural gas? If I drove to work instead of taking BART I'd be inclined to buy one of the natural gas Honda Civics. It would be so convenient to fuel up in the garage, like a Nissan Leaf, but better.
>
> I wonder what the differences between cng and propane are as a motor fuel.
>
> Larry Davick
> Fremont, California
Larry,
I have forgotten the mole weight heating value of CNG and its effective octane.
But, one of the issues with a vehicle fueling station is that there is a massive difference in handling CNG as it is distributed at a very low (for vehicles) pressure. City mains are 100~250 psi and this is reduced to 9"wc for use in your house.
The vehicle tank pressures are often in the 10kpsi range so an expensive compression pump is required for vehicle service.
Someone was working on an LNG handling system, but I don't know how far that got what with the cryogenic systems at all that.
In the 199x time frame, we were running test engines with a 200 psi rail pressure and port injectors.
Sorry, the memories run out about there.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air)
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Bruce Hislop
My first service vehicle was a Ford E100 van with a 351 engine. As was the quality of the day, the engine ran like crap and the doors were rotted through at 4 yrs old (we started calling it Bondo Van). I believe it got about the same MPG as the GMC does now.
I think it spent more time in the shop for carb problems and it went through valve rockers like no tomorrow.
When the Canadian Gov. (can't remember if it was the Feds or Provincial) came out with the LPG conversion subsidy I went for it as I could not afford to keep fixing it or trade it.
It finally ran much better as far as starting and the valve rockers never needed replacing again (which i can't understand, but likely due to the fact the engine oil stayed clean).
I remember at first I had a hard time keeping up with transport trucks when the light turned green. I finally found a place that had more experience and they did some work on the distributor advance which helped alot.
The MPG went down and you could forget about ever passing anyone, but I did put another 100k miles on it without removing the doghouse again.
On very cold mornings you need to be careful else you could freeze up your tanks, then there is no pressure to move the fuel to the engine leaving you sitting at the side of the road... waiting for the pressure to rise in the fuel tanks again. Ask me how I know ( I think it was in the -30's C)
--
Bruce Hislop,
S. Ontario Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI and ESC.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
D C *Mac* Macdonald
Note that I NEVER said it was legal;
just that it is being done!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
----------------------------------------
> From: emery...@mac.com
> To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 20:04:18 -0700
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane conversion
>
>
>
> On Jan 25, 2011, at 7:29 PM, D C *Mac* Macdonald
dave silva
In the last few years i've heard a variety of differnet news sources talking about the recent NG discoveriesd in the united states and saying things lil; "three Saudi Arabias" and a "200-year suppply"
If there is any truth to that, then this is a worthwhile discussion.
There is no reason why we can't be passing 75 year-old coaches to our grandchildren- and yes, that includes my Revcon.
--
Dave & Ellen Silva
Happy owners of a 1972 Flatnose Revcon
Here by the generosity of the GMC community
http://www.davesilva.com/revcon
Bruce Hislop
We do need to get smarter in how we use our energy.
My understanding is that to recover the oil from the oil sands in Alberta requires alot energy in the form of natural gas, amounting to about 80% of the energy recovered from the oil. In other words for 100 btu's in oil recovered required 80 btu's in natural gas.
And that still didn't take into account the energy to mine it, transport it and further refine it into gas, diesel etc.
Seems like another ethanol deal, more for corp. profits and Government BS than energy sense.
If I'm wrong on those numbers, please correct me.
--
Bruce Hislop,
S. Ontario Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI and ESC.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
Wally Anderson
thorndike wrote on Sat, 22 January 2011 22:14
> I saw a youtube video several weeks ago that had Jim Bounds test driving a GMC that used Propane for fuel. Is there any new information on how that has progressed?
>
> Does propane even have enough stored energy to be a gasoline replacement?
>
> Bob
Our coach had a Impco dual fuel set up on it when we got it. I took it off and gave it to a friend of mine who runs LP on his trucks.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=11539&cat=3841
He finds one of the disadvantages of the dual set up is the carb accelerator pumps wear out quicker when there is no gas in the carb.
I never ran the GMC on LP as it was using the stock LP tank with a liquid tap installed. Probably wouldn't go very far.
--
Wally Anderson
1975 Glenbrook
Megasquirt 455 port injection science project-On the road 8162 miles
Omaha Nebraska
Greater Midwest Classics
GMCES
http://wallyandsue.blogspot.com/
Emery Stora
On Jan 26, 2011, at 8:50 AM, Wally Anderson wrote:
>
> Wally Anderson
> 1975 Glenbrook
> Megasquirt 455 port injection science project-On the road 8162 miles
> Omaha Nebraska
> Greater Midwest Classics
> GMCES
> http://wallyandsue.blogspot.com/
Hi Wally
I was looking at your signature line and see that it sometimes is as big as your messages! :) :)
I would sure hate to see JR Slaten's if he list all the clubs he belongs to.
Emery Stora
1977 Kingsley
Howell TBI 150,000 miles
EBL System
CC Distributor
Alcoa 16"Wheels
Six Wheel Disk Brakes
Xantrex 40+ Converter
3 Way refrigerator
Mac Dash
Leather Seats
Fiberglass Box on rear
Pod on top
2 Fantastic fans
Aux. air conditioner evaporator
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
Santa Fe, NM
GMC Western States
GMC Motorhomes International
GMC Dixielanders
GMC Great Lakers
GMC Classics
GMC Mountainaires Slow day -- Just wanted to pull your chain! :) :) :)
Les Burt
Les Burt
Sent from my iPhone
Matt Colie
hertfordnc wrote on Wed, 26 January 2011 10:00
> In the last few years i've heard a variety of differnet news sources talking about the recent NG discoveriesd in the united states and saying things lil; "three Saudi Arabias" and a "200-year suppply"
>
> If there is any truth to that, then this is a worthwhile discussion.
>
> There is no reason why we can't be passing 75 year-old coaches to our grandchildren- and yes, that includes my Revcon.
Dave,
I will try to keep this from crossing too far into a political rant.
This response to your statement should be clear
It has been know for some years (since the mid-'70's) that there are reserves in US territory to power the country for a very long time. If, however, we were to mine our own energy we would not be at the mercy of all those that are currently supplying us.
When President Jimmy Carter created the Department of Energy with the expressed mission of making the country less dependent on imported fuel, it was expected by the public that the government intended to make changes. It did. Since that time imports have doubled and our energy consumption has not. Our tapped supplies are drying up and the EPA and the DoE have successfully prevented tapping those resources.
I will stop this here and say that as impractical as electric and CNG vehicles are, plan on one or more in your future.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air)
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
dave silva
mcolie wrote on Thu, 27 January 2011 07:05
> [I will try to keep this from crossing too far into a political rant.
> This response to your statement should be clear
I'm not sure what you're saying, and I don't worry about it becoming political.
While DOE could have done more on domestic fuel the price of gas compared to inflation continued to go down every year until about 2006 when China's economy lit the afterburners.
Now we have problem bedcause gas is going back up but our economy is not recovering. This could get ugly.
But I think the upside might be that our elected officials will have more at stake with their constituants than with the oil lobby.
And the tree huggers are not all wrong. I accidently bought a Honda Civic Hybrid and it has been the best car decision i've ever made- and yes, i have factored in the cost of replacing the battery pack and having it serviced by Honda.
--
Dave & Ellen Silva
Happy owners of a 1972 Flatnose Revcon
Here by the generosity of the GMC community
http://www.davesilva.com/revcon
D C *Mac* Macdonald
I have an ex-Air Force friend who has an older Prius.
He lives near Waterloo, Iowa and it's a good fit for
him and his wife. They don't drive very far very often
and don't need to tow anything right now. However, I'm
pretty sure he would like to trailer his Harley to some
interesting places to ride. But, I think he also has an
older pickup truck so that would serve that purpose.
We visited him in 2008 and went to supper in that Prius.
Very comfortable, but doesn't fit our usage for vehicles
at this time.
As always, YSMV (Your Situation May Vary).
Contrary to what "treehuggers" seem to espouse, I know
of NO conservative that wants dirty air or water, etc.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: david....@uscg.mil
> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 07:40:41 -0600
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane conversion
>
>
>
Michael Lincoln
Mike Lincoln
1978 Center Kitchen Royale
Chris Choffat
On my last trip, I got 6 MPG. I averaged 70MPH the whole way. Need to tweak the carb. I think my choke is stuck a bit.
Onan was NOT running.
--
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
77 Ex-Kingsley 455, Power Drive, 3:21 FD, Quadra bag. The Engineer's Motorhome
Scottsdale, AZ
Photosite: Chrisc "It has Begun"
Mike Miller
mlincoln wrote on Thu, 27 January 2011 06:03
> ... One driver told me that they have to "fill up" for 10 min or so a couple of times a shift, with a range of about 100-120 miles. ...
Sounds to me that compressed natural gas fits the need for around town "short trip" type vehicles. (Kind of like "neighborhood electric vehicles" but possibly bigger and/or faster.) I had heard of a process to make liquid fuel from natural gas. Googled a bit and found "gas-to-liquid (GTL) process". They have a way to make a diesel replacement... not gasoline.
drifting off subject.... I am thinking something like a "neighborhood electric vehicle" would make a nice towd. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicle>
Small, light and economical. Charge it from the coach generator or shore line. Maybe with taller tires to tow well 4 down. Maybe something a bit less "golf cart-ish"... An electric Austin 7? <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_7>
Anyway, I think we'll have liquid fuel for our coaches for well over 40 years. Gasoline... maybe not... but liquid.
--
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
'73 26' X Painted D. -- `78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- `77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
Roel
Suppose this works, Ken this is a picture of the Güldner, two cylinder 1300cc 18HP, this was during a townparade, together with a couple of other parents we decorated a wagon, loaded the kids and took part in the parade.
@Rob, LPG in summer it's 60/40 like with you, in wintertime it is 70% propane and 30% butane as propane is liquid until minus 42 degrees Celsius.
I have a youtube movie of the Güldner posted if you're interested:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrXWgnP4Oco
And one of the GMC cannot be missed ofcourse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMrFS6tBXXQ
Did I mention the 10mpg were also due to the fact that I could not go faster than 55mph because of an unbalanced wheel at that time.
Brgds.,
Roel
--
GMC 230 Painted Desert '73
Chevrolet C-10 stepside '65
Chrysler PT Cruiser 2001 ltd edition
Güldner ADN '57
Ken Henderson
obviously like to be driving the tractor now!
Ken H.
Dennis Sexton
Great video -- thanks for sharing!
Great looking family!
Dennis
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
Sent from my iPad
Rob Mueller
Thanks!
Winter, what's winter? ;-)
Re the out of balance wheel, I use this in my tires and am quite happy with
it.
http://www.imiproducts.com/equal/index.aspx
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Roel
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 2:03 AM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane conversion
Roel
Amazing stuff they come up with, never heard of this, but it will not work in my application, the wheels are not round anymore and I couldn't get a couple of the steel wheels balanced without a lot of work. Therefore I already purchased Eagle wheels, now the tires.... :roll:
Ken Henderson
The Equal, or similar Counteract, or other similar balancing beads (check
eBay) really do a good job of keeping wheels balanced at lower cost than
conventional balancing. Regardless of the type of rims.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com