[GMCnet] Bleeding Brakes and the J-23709 Tool
Tim Pledger
Today I hope to fabricate this J-23709 tool.
Does anyone have a drawing or has one to measure? I would be very thankful
for some rough measurements.
Cheers,
TJ
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Larry Davick
It looks like a simple clip to hold the hold-off valve in place.
I saw this if it helps:
http://jeepgarage.free.fr/OWN/brake%20system%20bleeding.pdf
--
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
Ken Henderson
As shown in this photo:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=5332
the pin only needs to compress a very small spring to open the
metering valve bypass. Almost anything that can be applied to the pin
should depress it: A strong rubber band; a short piece of steel with
a hole in each end for a spring to reach around the other end of the
combination valve; a squeeze-handle clamp; etc. No need to devote a
lot of effort to fabrication.
Ken H.
Ken Henderson
As shown in this photo:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=5332
the pin only needs to compress a very small spring to open the
metering valve bypass. Almost anything that can be applied to the pin
should depress it: A strong rubber band; a short piece of steel with
a hole in each end for a spring to reach around the other end of the
combination valve; a squeeze-handle clamp; etc. No need to devote a
lot of effort to fabrication.
Ken H.
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Tim Pledger <tjs...@gmail.com> wrote:
Tim Pledger
tips.
I may have more questions tomorrow if the bleeding does not fix my issue.
Hopefully it was just air in the system.
Rob Mueller
One comment, if you don't know when the brake fluid was changed last you
might want to do that first.
Check this picture from Jim Bounds website:
http://www.gmccoop.com/Brake-master-funk.jpg
If you do decide to blow out and flush the system the ATE Type 200 and ATE
Super Blue Racing Fluid are the best I've been able to find.
Disclaimer: If anyone knows of a DOT 4 brake fluid with a higher boiling
point dry or wet or a longer manufacturer's recommended change interval
PLEASE let me know! DOT 4 not DOT 5!
http://www.ate-na.com/generator/www/us/en/ate/ate/themes/20_ate_brake_produc
ts/50_brake_fluid/bf_info_us.html
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Ken Burton
GMCWiperMan wrote on Fri, 06 November 2009 18:07
Ken You are still sending duplicate postings. One at 18:06 and one at 18:07
Ken B.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Ken Henderson
Thanks for that information. I was about ready to ask whether anyone
was still getting them. Is it a rarity or every message?
I really thought I'd cured it by using only GMail's web-based mail
client (and the new beta off-line version). I'm really baffled now.
When I first started using GMail, I was receiving duplicates of my own
emails until I turned off email forwarding yesterday. If you get
another duplicate, will you check the full headers and tell me what
each shows for sender?
Ken
Rob Mueller
It appears that the duplicates only occur on new messages you write, if you
reply to an existing message it doesn't happen.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Saturday, 7 November 2009 2:23 PM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Bleeding Brakes and the J-23709 Tool
Ken,
Thanks for that information. I was about ready to ask whether anyone
was still getting them. Is it a rarity or every message?
Ken
Ken Burton
GMCWiperMan wrote on Fri, 06 November 2009 21:23
> Ken,
>
> Thanks for that information. I was about ready to ask whether anyone
> was still getting them. Is it a rarity or every message?
>
> I really thought I'd cured it by using only GMail's web-based mail
> client (and the new beta off-line version). I'm really baffled now.
>
> When I first started using GMail, I was receiving duplicates of my own
> emails until I turned off email forwarding yesterday. If you get
> another duplicate, will you check the full headers and tell me what
> each shows for sender?
>
> Ken
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Ken Burton <n9...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Ken You are still sending duplicate postings. One at 18:06 and one at 18:07
> >
> > Ken B.
I am seeing duplicates from you on the forum so I can not see the headers.
BUT...
You sent me an off-net email tonight that I received using Outlook Express. It also was duplicated so I copied the beaders from both of those and sent them back to both your Bell South id and your Gmail id.
This should give you what you want.
Ken B.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Larry Engelbrecht
How much pressure is needed to depress the pin? I have tried to depress mine and found no noticeable movement when doing a prior bleed. However, when the rear reservoir was empty, I noticed the pin protruding further outward when I had someone depress the pedal (MC replacement happening today).
--
Larry Engelbrecht
'73 26' ex-Glacier
TZE063V100319 030773
Ken Henderson
I've never paid any attention to the action of the pin after I
reassembled that disabled combination valve. But I can assure you
that only a very slight movement would be necessary -- you only have
to move that little "top hat" next to the the little spring, against
that slight force for a tiny distance -- just enough to let air &
fluid flow through. All you're doing is bypassing the 135 psi opening
force of the metering valve.
I don't understand the pin moving when the rear reservoir is empty.
It should only move when the rear brake pressure exceeds 135 psi,
opening the metering valve to the front brakes.
HTH -- my knowledge is now exceeded. :-)
Ken H.
Les Burt
rear brake line. I had to lightly tap the pin to persuade it to return to
the normal position so I could properly bleed the brake system. I then held
it in position with a c-clamp during the bleeding procedure. Worked like a
charm!
Even with the rear brakes not working, I still had some braking on the front
wheels. How would this be possible if 135psi is needed on the rear before
you get front braking? There must be some seepage allowed through the
combi-valve to allow the front brakes to function in a reduced capacity.
Les Burt
Montreal
Ken Burton
Les Burt wrote on Sat, 07 November 2009 12:07
> On my coach, the pin was jammed in the out position after suffering a failed
> rear brake line. I had to lightly tap the pin to persuade it to return to
> the normal position so I could properly bleed the brake system. I then held
> it in position with a c-clamp during the bleeding procedure. Worked like a
> charm!
>
> Even with the rear brakes not working, I still had some braking on the front
> wheels. How would this be possible if 135psi is needed on the rear before
> you get front braking? There must be some seepage allowed through the
> combi-valve to allow the front brakes to function in a reduced capacity.
>
> Les Burt
> Montreal
I had the opposite result when I blew a wheel cylinder coming off an exit ramp in Louisiana. No brakes for the stop sign at the end of the ramp. I sailed into the cross street. The problem was a blown left rear wheel cylinder.
I never understood the operation of that combo valve. It could be mine is bad. I just screwed a cap on the line to the bad cylinder and drove back to Chicago on 5 wheel brakes. I replaced all 4 rear cylinders after I got back home.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Ken Henderson
considering. With the combination valve I tore down now modified and
on the GMC, I can't investigate it. But I suspect that's another
function of the differential brake shuttle which I didn't discover in
my investigation.
Ken B., why don't you tear yours down and investigate while repairing it? :-)
Ken H.
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Les Burt <burt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
....
Les Burt
slightly when I hold the pin in with a c-clamp. No leak in the running
position. I will be installing 6 discs, so the valve needs to come apart
anyway. I'll have a closer look while it is apart and try to find the answer
to my own question.
Ken Henderson
Ken H.
Les Burt
might be able to use it. It's too far for me to be interested.
Didn't the 66 have a 3.21 ratio?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110457355124
Rob Mueller
The 3.21 ratio final drive with planetary gears has eight (8) bolts that
hold the steel cover on the 3.07 has ten (10).
See Larry Weidner's photo below:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=16025
I've asked the seller to count the bolts.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Steve Southworth
Les Burt wrote on Sat, 14 November 2009 15:34
> Found a 66 tornado transmission & final drive on eBay. Thought someone here
> might be able to use it. It's too far for me to be interested.
>
> Didn't the 66 have a 3.21 ratio?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110457355124
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yh2fo2f
Is a 66 425 Toro trans case the same as a 73/74 GMC 425 trans case? I know the guts in a GMC trans are not the same as a Toro. I have a 73/74 GMC 425 trans with a very damaged bell housing (not repairable).
Of course it would cost $200 in gas and a day to go pick it up.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150
Palmyra WI
Ray Swartzendruber
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Les Burt
Rob Mueller
Ray is correct (like he REALLY needs ME to confirm that!), if it IS out of a
1966 Toronado it is a switch pitch and a 3.21. That's what I bought from Bob
Sobrito to put in The Blue Streak.
I had Manny rebuild the trans and final drive before I shipped them
Downunder. IIRC he told me that the GMC housing was not the same as a
Toronado housing but I can't remember the specifics.
Give Manny a call on +1 (408) 937-1583 after the 15th (he's on a cruise) and
I'm sure he'll answer your question.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Southworth
Sent: Sunday, 15 November 2009 9:44 AM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Les Burt
drive?
If it wasn't so far away, I'd be bidding on it.
Les Burt
Montreal
Rob Mueller
As I understand it on a 1966 final drive the ID of the drive flange is
larger than the OD of the inner CV joint cap. Manny supplied me with some
large rings to take up the space.
I think he told me that the rings are not needed on a 1967 3.21 final drive.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Les Burt
Sent: Sunday, 15 November 2009 11:40 AM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 66 tornado transmission & final drive
Wasn't there also some CV axle drive flange differences on the 3.21 final
drive?
If it wasn't so far away, I'd be bidding on it.
Les Burt
Montreal
_______________________________________________
roy keen
Les
The stub axel and support are different. The unit pictured has
those pieces so they will connect to the motorhome flange.
Roy
Ray Swartzendruber
and have had for several years. I have always said that if there is a "next
time", I would not put in another switch pitch because we never use it for
most of our travels, and it seems to be a little more temperamental, having
two of them go bad before we got a good one. After spending 10 days in
southwest CO and southeast UT on two lane roads with many grades, my story
changes. The switch pitch gives just enough added multiplication and engine
RPM to make it "over the hump" without the need to downshift in many cases.
We also have the 3.21 final drive which we found had enough higher ratio
over the 3.07, that a higher ratio (3.55, 3.70, whatever) was not necessary
even in the mountains, but would be nice if we did a lot of driving in the
mountains. Higher ratios are certainly not necessary for us flatlanders in
the Midwest.
Just my 2 cents...many of you will disagree.
Druber
By the way, we were traveling with Dave Lenzi and his 8.1 horse which makes
you a little humble{:>) He has a non switch pitch trans with 3.21 ratio.
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Les Burt