[GMCnet] Propane Line Replacement

[Mickey Szilagyi]

We are told we have a small propane leak in our propane supply lines. It is not inside the coach as far as we can tell. It's not in the propane tank area. We think it's below the coach in the line that goes from under the tank area to where the line goes up into the coach under the sink area. We have a 1977 Kingsley with just the range/oven and furnace using propane. We will soon be testing the line under the coach but in our initial inspection noticed that there are a number of connectors, short runs of metal and rubber hoses. We're not sure if all that is original or replacement parts and pieces.

The big question is - can we replace that entire run from under the tank to where the line goes up into the coach with just one continuous flexible hose to avoid all the connections and couplers/fittings? And if so is there a certain type of line we need to use. Can we assume if we go to an RV parts store they will have the correct hose and is there one that's better than all the rest?

As always your help is greatly appreciated.
--
Mickey
1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

[Steve Adams]

I would go to a dealer with a certified gas person. Not an area to take chances. I had some line made up for my 1968 SOB truck mounted camper. Was not that expensive and was dine right.
--
1978 GMC Royal
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special

[brian]

what I learned adding propane fridge
all internal lines are required to be copper tubing.
there is a flexable line that is metal which is meant to do final tie in. rubber lines are meant to be external.
I went to a place that sells propane grills and gas loggs. connectors can get expensive, but the lines them self are not that bad. If you know what size you need they can make them very easily. I leared this after running rubber line from lowes hardware thru bath compartment to fridge. I plan on leaving this way for up coming weekend festival, but before next trip rubber line will be replaced with proper stuff.
--
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza 2 74 build
118k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE

[David Gourdine]

Why are all the interior lines required to be copper? as i type this im thinking due to potential fire in coach burning thru rubber line and adding fuel to a bad situation probably? we build mobile kitchens and miami/dade code states no concealed gas fittings but has never mentioned steel/copper vs rubber. just curious as i am debating now whether to replace all the lines in our rental coaches as we are replacing all of the reefers with new lp units before next year and need to run supply lines in some of the girls.
--
David Gourdine
www.blackrockdesertrvrental.com
boo...@blackrockdesertrvrental.com
727-657-1955

[John Hunt]

I am watching this thread, hoping to hear some viewpoints on replacing propane lines throughout, as I've been looking at the existing 37 year old propane lines thinking I oughta just replace all when I have the tank checked and install the new propane line for the upcoming 3-way fridge and instant water heater. I was thinking to just have flexible lines made up to replace existing and do new hard lines inside, but wonder if there's a preferred flavor of hard line and fittings, or different and better solutions now, etc.

John
'76 Eleganza II
--
1976 Eleganza II,
1969 Lotus Elan Plus 2,
1978 Merlyn Formula Ford,
1981 Lola Sports 2000

[Jon Roche]

I hate plumbing.... probably the same trying to plumb propane too. I see lots of trips to the propane store, or hardware store in the future, buying lots of wrong fittings, ect.

I noticed my palm beach is almost all copper, with the exception of a rubber line that connects the regulator to a fitting that switches to copper on the bottom of the propane compartment.

I too plan on installing a propane fridge, and water heater in the spring. so if anybody has insight as to what to use. Usually working with copper, I would think of sweating fittings, or such, but probably need to take some extra caution on existing propane lines, so will be wanting to see what the process is, as well as routes to run those lines.

running inside, you have more chance of having gas leak inside coach, however running outside i would think more chance of damage.


--
75 palm beach
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

[Keith V]

my ex Royale was re-plumbed by retarded monkeys.
It had multiple hidden connections inside the coach, everyone of which leaked. One leak was under the rear bed, into the storage area underneath. So if I didn't fix it would have filled with propane and made a really nice pipe bomb.

They used compression fittings, good, but put teflon tape on the threads so they never sealed.
And did I mention they were hidden? AND inside the coach?

I ran copper under the coach as protected as possible. There are connections inside the coach, there has to be. Connections at the stove, the furnace and the water heater and one Tee fitting but there is a opening in the floor for the gas to drain.

Rubber has a life expectancy, Copper tubing I think will last my lifetime.

however you do it do it right.
--
Keith
69 Vette
29 Dodge
75 Royale GMC
Mounds View. MN

[Keith V]

lqqkatjon wrote on Fri, 27 September 2013 10:20

> I hate plumbing.... probably the same trying to plumb propane too. I see lots of trips to the propane store, or hardware store in the future, buying lots of wrong fittings, ect.
>
> I noticed my palm beach is almost all copper, with the exception of a rubber line that connects the regulator to a fitting that switches to copper on the bottom of the propane compartment.
>
> I too plan on installing a propane fridge, and water heater in the spring. so if anybody has insight as to what to use. Usually working with copper, I would think of sweating fittings, or such, but probably need to take some extra caution on existing propane lines, so will be wanting to see what the process is, as well as routes to run those lines.
>
> running inside, you have more chance of having gas leak inside coach, however running outside i would think more chance of damage.

Jon,
Use flare fittings with forged nuts and good flexible copper.
run it outside, if there is a leak you don't want it inside.

oh in my previous message I think I said compression fittings, I meant flare fittings

--
Keith
69 Vette
29 Dodge
75 Royale GMC
Mounds View. MN

[Rick Drummond]

Hi Jon,
I tackled that same project, dreaded the thought of it but afterwards it was really not that bad.
Here are some photos of how I did mine.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6456-adding-propane-line-for-new-fridge.html



Rick

Rick&Tammy Drummond
Prior Lake MN
'74 (re)Painted Desert

[r...@gmcnet.org]

Keith V wrote on Fri, 27 September 2013 09:04

> lqqkatjon wrote on Fri, 27 September 2013 10:20
> > I hate plumbing.... probably the same trying to plumb propane too. I see lots of trips to the propane store, or hardware store in the future, buying lots of wrong fittings, ect.
> >
> > I noticed my palm beach is almost all copper, with the exception of a rubber line that connects the regulator to a fitting that switches to copper on the bottom of the propane compartment.
> >
> > I too plan on installing a propane fridge, and water heater in the spring. so if anybody has insight as to what to use. Usually working with copper, I would think of sweating fittings, or such, but probably need to take some extra caution on existing propane lines, so will be wanting to see what the process is, as well as routes to run those lines.
> >
> > running inside, you have more chance of having gas leak inside coach, however running outside i would think more chance of damage.
>
>
> Jon,
> Use flare fittings with forged nuts and good flexible copper.
> run it outside, if there is a leak you don't want it inside.
>
> oh in my previous message I think I said compression fittings, I meant flare fittings

. I would agree with Keith flair fittings are less likely to leak.

--
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook

[John Wright]

The RV industry uses for propane piping, black iron pipe, copper and a little rubber lines. Most all of the large class A motorhomes us a black iron pipe LP header under the floor of the coach and then branch out with copper to the appliances that use LP gas. Smaller Class A, B, C and trailers almost always use copper in the entire LP system, it's a cost issue. The only place that you will see a rubber hose is between the LP Tank and the LP header piping. Rubber is not used in interior spaces as it deteriorates with age. I use a rubber LP line between the exterior tank and my LP header that I use when parked at the RV resort we stay at in Tucson for several months. It has gotten very stiff and hard (no laughing) in the three years that we have used it. Total time used is about 6 months service. A lot of the newer large coach today are all electric and they have the size to carry the necessary generator, inverters and batteries to make it work well. If you treat it w
ith respect, propane can be your friend.

JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan

On Sep 27, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Jon Roche <lqqk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> I hate plumbing.... Probably the same trying to plumb propane too. I see lots of trips to the propane store, or hardware store in the future, buying lots of wrong fittings, ect.

[David Gourdine]

i am leaning towards black pipe now with flexible steel to the appliances. i looked in to copper and the price is crazy high. if i were just doing 1 unit id probably bite the bullet but with 10+ coaches to do it is way too cost prohibitive.

--
David Gourdine
www.blackrockdesertrvrental.com
boo...@blackrockdesertrvrental.com
727-657-1955

[brian]

I was told all internal lines copper versus rubber because rubber can rub and wear thru and leak, or rodent can eat thru.

--
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza 2 74 build
118k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE

[Jerry Wheeler]

Brian,
please send me your private email address; I have something to discuss with
you. I will not be back to NC until late October.
jrwheeler7 at gmail.com

[John Wright]

David,
You're going to find that the copper based job is going to be somewhat less expensive than the black iron pipe based job in both time and materials. When you go and check the pricing on the section of black pipe and fittings and you may need to cut and thread some of the connections copper make more sense. A 50 Ft roll of 1/2 copper is only $61.24 and take 10% off if you're a vet. I do both and have the tools to do copper and cut and thread black pipe. Black pipe take so much more work. The choice is yours, you can do what you want, but black pipe does not fit the coach very easily when you have to run around and thru the frame.

JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan

[brian]

Jr
PM would not go thru,
my email is
chasingsummer at triad dot rr dot com
I do hope your travels from the right coast to the left one have been emjoyable and only as eventful as you wished to make them.

[brian]

David,
I understand that doing 10 of anything the cost adds up.
The rubber hose I bought at lowes home imp which I will replace with copper was 10 foot. So for me, I will get place I got my fittings from to make me a hose that long.If your layout is same as mine, then the 50 foot tubing should be enought to do 5 of your units. 10 feet will fit from fridge to tank with plenty of slack. Mainly straight run from tank to fridge.

--
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza 2 74 build
118k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE

[Matt Colie]

mickey szilagyi wrote on Thu, 26 September 2013 18:39

> We are told we have a small propane leak in our propane supply lines. It is not inside the coach as far as we can tell. It's not in the propane tank area. We think it's below the coach in the line that goes from under the tank area to where the line goes up into the coach under the sink area. We have a 1977 Kingsley with just the range/oven and furnace using propane. We will soon be testing the line under the coach but in our initial inspection noticed that there are a number of connectors, short runs of metal and rubber hoses. We're not sure if all that is original or replacement parts and pieces.
>
> The big question is - can we replace that entire run from under the tank to where the line goes up into the coach with just one continuous flexible hose to avoid all the connections and couplers/fittings? And if so is there a certain type of line we need to use. Can we assume if we go to an RV parts store they will have the correct hose and is there one that's better than all the rest?
>
> As always your help is greatly appreciated.

Mickey,

Hose that will survive in LP service long term is much more expensive than copper and the fittings are outrageous. Before you do anything else, get a regulator and some fitting so you can put 30~50 psi air in the system and leak check it with bubbly. I bet you can just make up some of the fittings that were never right.

Otherwise, just pull in soft copper. If you need a good flaing block, I will arrange to get one to you.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Mickey Szilagyi]

Thanks Matt,

We'll tackle the propane issue when we get the coach in the barn and up on blocks. From all the information we're reading, if we replace any of the lines, we'll try to use copper. I've done a lot of water plumbing with copper but nothing for propane. Once we find the leak we'll know better what needs to be done.

Thanks for all your help with the gasoline fuel system. We think we found the leak - the 1/4 hose feed to the generator was badly cracked the first 2 feet coming out of the main tank. And that probably explains why the generator wasn't getting fuel as the fuel pump was probably sucking air through the cracked hose. Since we had the main tank down we checked the sending unit and all the fuel lines. And since we did that we also took down the auxiliary tank and checked everything there too. The sending units and the socks are fine. We thought about changing the socks but they are not removeable. We replaced a number of the fuel lines so we now know they should be good for quite some time. We also are having the tanks refurbished at Tank Renu. It's not cheap but they should be good for quite some time as well with coated interiors and exteriors.

Thanks again for the offer for use of a flaring block. Is that the same equipment used to do brake lines? If so I have a local friend who may have it also. We'll see what we need once we get into the propane lines.

[Emery Stora]

On Sep 28, 2013, at 6:58 AM, Mickey Szilagyi wrote:

>
> Thanks again for the offer for use of a flaring block. Is that the same equipment used to do brake lines? If so I have a local friend who may have it also. We'll see what we need once we get into the propane lines.
> --

Brake lines are double flared.
Gas lines only need a single flare. If you have a flaring tool for copper water lines that will work just fine.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

[Steven Ferguson]

Jon,
The hard copper is the easiest to work with and very forgiving. Super
easy to flare. I ran it over the R rear wheel well to the refer, and that
line can be used for the water heater also. Where the line went through
the bulkhead, I installed a rubber grommet then shot some expanding foam in
for good measure. This is the easiest route for the line. I also
installed a T , Extend A Stay fitting after the regulator and used that for
our portable BBQ. In the Kit, I came off the refer line, installed an
isolation valve and ran an extension with a quick disconnect into the coach
and used this in cold weather to run our Wave heater.
Steve F.

--
Take care,
Steve

[Steven Ferguson]

I forgot to mention, stick with 3/8 line and all the fittings will work
just fine. I prefer flare fittings but compression fittings will work.
After the regulator, the line pressure does not exceed 11" of water, or
plainly put, less than 2psi.
Steve F.

[Rob Mueller]

Steve,

Just wanted to add a comment, the placement of the T for an external BBQ depends on if the external BBQ has a built in regulator or
not.

I installed a T and valve in Byron Songer's SOB and it needed to be upstream of the regulator as his portable Weber had a regulator
in it.

Two regulators in a row don't work too good!

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Ferguson

Jon,
The hard copper is the easiest to work with and very forgiving. Super
easy to flare. I ran it over the R rear wheel well to the refer, and that
line can be used for the water heater also. Where the line went through
the bulkhead, I installed a rubber grommet then shot some expanding foam in
for good measure. This is the easiest route for the line. I also
installed a T , Extend A Stay fitting after the regulator and used that for
our portable BBQ. In the Kit, I came off the refer line, installed an
isolation valve and ran an extension with a quick disconnect into the coach
and used this in cold weather to run our Wave heater.
Steve F.

[John Wright]

All,
11" H2O is about .4 psig, so the system is not under any high pressure. A lot of regulators can be set for 11"H2O, but may not have enough capacity (volume) to run several appliances at once as they can go into a condition call "Choked Flow." If you replace the regulator on the coach with one that is smaller in size and capacity then you could have problems with the furnace not having enough gas volume to run correctly. I am with Rob on this as to use the high pressure side to feed another regulator. If you want to run another LP appliance and it has a regulator installed, then you would need to remove it in order to use LP that is taken off after the installed regulator on the low pressure side, that said, modifying an existing LP device, although it should work would be an unwise unsafe choice IMPHO!

When we park for long periods of time such as the RV park in Tucson, I have a 30# external cylinder that I use to provide propane to the coach. I use the external tank because I can have it filled at an LP filling station for about 1/2 the price of having it delivered. I have a valve and "T" just after the coach LP tank valve and before the dual stage regulator to feed the system. I also have another take off on this hight pressure side to feed the BBQ. I use LP rated hoses purchased form my LP supplier here at home and inspect them regularly. Guys, if you need to replace your coach regulator be sure to use a dual stage regulator as that is required by RV code. Yes, you can use the single stage regulator and it is much cheaper, but it is NOT the way to go. Be safe instead of sorry!

JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
TZE Zone Restorations
78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

[Chris Tyler]

Agree with copper and forged fittigs all the way. New copper is easy to flare with a basic single flare tool. Practice a few before you run the line. Cap with duct tape before you run it, use as few connections as possible, and avoid compression fittings like the plague on LP. No teflon on flares, pipe thread only.
Oh yeah...remember to put the fitting on befor you flare it and leave a bit of slack in case you need to repair at some point.
A manometer to check the LP psi would be best. Beg borrow or steal one. If it drops, you have a leak.
--
76 Glenbrook

[Erv Troyer]

emerystora wrote on Sat, 28 September 2013 08:54

> Brake lines are double flared.
> Gas lines only need a single flare. If you have a flaring tool for copper water lines that will work just fine.
>
> Emery Stora

When I worked at Coachmen I noticed that all their copper tubing (which they made in-house) was double-lap flared. However, I believe they did that as a marketing gimmick, as they really bragged that up in their literature.

That was also the only RV company that I know of that ran every coach through a rain booth to check for water leaks. Since they have been bought out by a bigger company I don't know if they still do those "extras" or not.
--
Erv Troyer Lagrange, IN
74 Sequoia
re...@aol.com

[Steven Ferguson]

I should have brought up that part about the regulator on the appliance.
You are correct Rob, two in a row don't go. I replaced the regulator on my
BBQ with a straight hose that had a QD on the end.
Steve F

--
Take care,
Steve