[GMCnet] Frame Repair
Anthony Stasunas
I am restoring a 1975 Eleganza. I just removed the bogies and I discovered rust behind the wheels. The drivers side is the worst with some areas bowed from rust and delaminating. While it is not rusted through I think I should deal with it. My plan is to get some 1/8 in steel bent in an "L" and removed the side and bottom portion either side of the bogie mounts and weld the new pieces in place.
Any one with similar experiences and/or advice will be appreciated.
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Ken Henderson
Where are you located? That information frequently affects the advice you
receive, especially regarding where to turn for assistance.
There are folks around with experience at frame rail replacement. You may
find a more satisfactory and, perhaps, economical solution by dealing with
someone who's done it before. The idea of welding in frame members is NOT
appealing; that usually results in unrelieved stresses and subsequent
failures. Replacement of the entire straight section side frame rails is
probably a better option and not as overwhelming a task as it first appears.
JMHO -- I haven't yet needed to do it, thank goodness.
--
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Anthony Stasunas <ASta...@aol.com>wrote:
> ...... My plan is to get some 1/8 in steel bent in an "L" and removed the
> side and bottom portion either side of the bogie mounts and weld the new
> pieces in place.
>
Anthony Stasunas
Ken,
Thanks for the response. I live in Central Florida.
Regarding Frame Rail replacement, any source on how to do that?
Gary W. Mills
I had a new frame installed last year. It was very expensive and took 6
weeks. I had to bring it to Canada to have it done.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4991
Gary W. Mills (Livonia MI)
. ___________
./_][__][] []| 1974 GMC M/H
.*O-------OO-* Painted Desert
"Tangerine Dream" W/New Frame
Ken Henderson
Don Stuckey in Canada is the pre-eminent frame source; he supplies heavier
than original rails beautifully epoxy finished. He also has crossmembers
now. But his prices, with added customs (?) and shipping are pretty stiff.
You can find his contact information at www.bdub.net.
There is a GMCer near Chicago who has replaced side rails on several
coaches, without removing the entire frame, IIRC. He's not "in the
business" so I won't publish his name, but I'm sending it to you off-net.
He might be able to ship you rails more cheaply; I don't know.
Ken H.
Jim Kanomata
We purchase the outer perimeter rail from Dan Stucky. He was the one
that supervised our first frame Job few years ago.
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
fred veenschoten
there is a frame available here in Pensacola, Fl. from a '78 Royale and it is in very nice condition. coach rolled over and is being used for parts.
Jim Bounds may be able to change out the rails.
--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
D C *Mac* Macdonald
While I don't doubt that a new frame would be rather
costly, I wonder what "CUSTOMS" (meaning import duties)
would be required. If the new frame is carrying your
coach back to USA how would anybody know it's new?
Even so, some accounts as to the costs paid by others
for this renewal might be of interest, especially to
those of us who haven't gotten into owning a GMC yet!
For a coach in otherwise excellent condition, it might
be worth the expense.
D C "Mac" Macdonald
Oklahoma City, OK
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Ken Henderson wrote:
Anthony,
Don Stuckey in Canada is the pre-eminent frame source; he supplies heavier
than original rails beautifully epoxy finished. He also has crossmembers
now. But his prices, with added customs (?) and shipping are pretty stiff.
You can find his contact information at www.bdub.net.
There is a GMCer near Chicago who has replaced side rails on several
coaches, without removing the entire frame, IIRC. He's not "in the
business" so I won't publish his name, but I'm sending it to you off-net.
He might be able to ship you rails more cheaply; I don't know.
Ken H.
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Anthony Stasunas wrote:
Ken,
Thanks for the response. I live in Central Florida.
Regarding Frame Rail replacement, any source on how to do that?
_______________________________________________
Jim Melberg
Tangerine wrote on Mon, 30 November 2009 10:29
> I had a new frame installed last year. It was very expensive and took 6
> weeks.
I had the two side rails and bogie support frame replaced a few years ago. My son and one of my nephews (a crackerjack millwright) did the work in about 3 and 1/2 days, wheels off the ground to wheels back on the ground. Parts were from Cinibar and were not inexpensive. I did a complete writeup here on the Forum at the time.
--
Little Yimmy - KCØSQS
75 PB - F260206
Twin Cities, MN
Anthony Stasunas
Jim,
When you did the frame replacement did you support the body and roll the chassis out or did you do it in place?
If I do any replacement I only think I need to do the side rails and wonder if I can simply raise the body enough to remove the side rails in place.
--
Regards,
Tony
1975 Eleganza
Winter Springs, Fl
Jim Bounds
Jim Bounds
----------------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Anthony Stasunas <ASta...@aol.com>
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tue, December 1, 2009 12:19:50 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frame Repair
Terry Skinner
a come-a-long on each side down to a bracket screwed to the floor.
Then he could reach in thru the window and operate the aproperate
come-a-long to lift each corner. When I saw it the coach was about 3
feet off the ground and parts every where. Figured that if I was to
change a frame that is the way I would do it...........Terry
--
Terry Skinner
253-686-2624
Roy. Washington
'76 GMC
Jim Melberg
AStasunas wrote on Mon, 30 November 2009 23:19
> Jim,
> When you did the frame replacement did you support the body and roll the chassis out or did you do it in place?
> If I do any replacement I only think I need to do the side rails and wonder if I can simply raise the body enough to remove the side rails in place.
When we picked up the rails and bogie frame at Cinnibar, they showed us where to support the body. We jacked up the coach, put jack stands under the body pads, and then removed everything that was attached to the frame members, bogies, fuel tanks, waste tank, etc. Then we cut the nuts off all of the bolts holding the rails and bogie frame to the body. Bolted the new parts up in place, put all the tanks and stuff back on, and done.
--
Little Yimmy - KCØSQS
75 PB - F260206
Twin Cities, MN
Adrien Genesoto
Tony,
My center frame was rusted through in several places. Removed it and made all but 3 of the cross members new.
I drove it up on ramps, raised the front, secured it with stand to be safe to work underneath, disconnected fuel lines, cut the rusted brake line, remove the torsion rods, anything that connects to the front section.
The air lines and the holding tank minus dump tube was left attached to the body.
Jacked the back of the coach, a little each side, high enough to clear the boggies, under the body, when dragging the frame out (yours are off already) plus 6 inches. Removed 6 body mounts and loosen the front.
Used 4x4 and jack stands, on the outside of the rails to support the body. The jack stands where lag screwed to the 4x4.
When I felt comfortable that it would be safe, unbolted the front, lowered the frame in the rear while forcing it of the front section. Support the rear engine cross member.
For the rails I used a 6x6x .187 wall square tube sawed in half. Used 3 thin cut off wheel, for steel cutting. The best old rail was laid back to back to transfer the bolt holes to one new rail, then the new rails back to back. a drill press is nice, but you can rent a mag drill also.
The cross members are formed from 3/16" flat stock.
I clamped caster wheels to the frame to roll it under the coach.
The more that you cam figure how to do it yourself, the easier on the pocket book.
Hope this can help you or someone else.
--
Adrien
75 Glenbrook
Yuba City,Ca.
David L Greenberg
project like this...way to go Adrien!
Dave-Career Pencil Pusher-Greenberg
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:52:56 -0600 Adrien Genesoto <fixm...@syix.com>
writes:
David Lee Greenberg
Port St Lucie, FL
Dedicated to the Preservation of the Classic GMC Motorhome
http://GMCmhRegistry.com
48 Packard Super Eight http://www.picturetrail.com/gmcregistry
____________________________________________________________
Love Spell
Click here to light up your life with a love spell!
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Bob de Kruyff
""I am in awe of anyone who has the know how AND the guts to undertake a
project like this...way to go Adrien!
Dave-Career Pencil Pusher-Greenberg""
No Kidding--I'm worn out just reading about it!!!
--
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
Les Burt
there is any other mechanical work to be done, that this is the time to do
it all. Lifting the body off the chassis gives much easier access to all the
mechanical items. Yes it is lots of work, but everything is much easier to
work on when the body isn't in the way! If you are on a tight budget, and
can only tackle problems one at a time, then the other methods may be
better. The final result will be more time and money spent. Doing it all at
once in one fell swoop is always cheaper in the long run.
I am about to undertake the frame replacement on my own coach. I'll be
having the frame components produced locally. I'll also be overhauling the
suspension, steering, brake system, fuel system, & exhaust as well as doing
some engine and transmission work. Holding tanks and plumbing will also be
overhauled.
When I'm done, I'm hoping my coach will be good for the next 10-15 years
with only regular mechanical maintenance. It's all going to put a big hole
my wallet right now, but I'll feel much more confident later when many miles
from home.
Another valid point I feel is worth mentioning. Every year, more and more
parts are getting harder to find. Our specialty suppliers are doing a good
job of keeping us alive, but they all admit that it is getting tougher to do
business. If you know that your coach needs something done, do it sooner
rather than later, as parts get harder to source, the price typically also
goes up. Getting your coach in top shape now saves you money and headaches
later.
Just my 2 cents,
Les Burt
Montreal
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of David L Greenberg
Sent: December 2, 2009 6:16 AM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frame Repair
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14:32:00
scott cowden
> I am about to undertake the frame replacement on my own coach. I'll be
> having the frame components produced locally. I'll also be overhauling the
> suspension, steering, brake system, fuel system, & exhaust as well as doing
> some engine and transmission work. Holding tanks and plumbing will also be
> overhauled.
>
> Montreal
Les;
Maybe I missed it in this thread. Are you having to replace the frame on the coach you bought this past summer?
I saw that coach when it was sitting in St. Jean. My daughter was on course at the base there for the summer and I stopped to see the coach when I dropped her off there in May.
I'd never seen a coach so low to the ground, with 6 flat tires and 2 flat air bags. I guess being so low took its' toll.
Scott '74 Glacier Orillia, ON, Canada
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Mike Miller
Les Burt wrote on Wed, 02 December 2009 08:40
> ... Another valid point I feel is worth mentioning. Every year, more and more parts are getting harder to find. Our specialty suppliers are doing a good job of keeping us alive, but they all admit that it is getting tougher to do business. ...
Besides business issues, quite a few of our suppliers are getting older... I hope there is some type of informal "apprentice" type system to capture the knowledge.
Pick your system/item: engine, tranny, suspension parts, carburetors, screen doors and ect.... It wouldn't be any good to have a business need and a market but no one who knew how to do the work!
--
Mike Miller
`73 26' X Painted D.
`78 23' Birchaven
Hillsboro, OR
John R. Lebetski
Truck frame rails always have the sticker on them 'Do not drill or weld'. I would take that advice and not try to repair but instead replace. Life is too short to endanger yourself and those nearby.
--
John Lebetski
Chicago, IL
77 Eleganza II
Les Burt
Yes I'm going to replace the frame rails. I did a thorough inspection and
found that the rails and bogie "H" frame are still solid enough to survive a
few more years of service. There is some flairing, but nothing terrible.
Overall I'm quite amazed at how little rust I actually found under the
coach. Most of the underside still shows the original surface finish. I had
to pressure wash a good bit of road dirt off the underside to actually see
anything in detail though.
There are 3 reasons I've decided to do the frame.
1- The rear subframe is rotten on both sides due to sitting on the ground
for 5 years.
2- The left leg of the front sub-frame where it bolts to the frame rail is
rotten. The rot is only visible when looking at the inside of the frame rail
while lying under the coach. I need to cut out and replace the rotten
section(about a 4x6" piece). To get to that area, I need to separate the
frame rails from the sub-frame.
3- I need to completely redo the front suspension, bogie pins, exhaust, as
well as the fuel and brake lines. The body isolation pads are so-so, and I
may need to pull the tranny. The coach won't fit in my shop, but the frame
will. I want to go through the coach and make sure ALL the mechanicals are
top notch, so a frame-off rebuild makes some sense. While there, doing the
frame makes good sense.
Les Burt
Montreal
Rob Mueller
I would suggest that if you decide to replace the brake lines you get the
stainless steel ones from Tom Hampton. THEY FIT!
I got a set from Classic Tube and had a hell of a time making them fit.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Les Burt
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2009 4:28 AM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frame Repair
3- I need to completely redo the front suspension, bogie pins, exhaust, as
well as the fuel and brake lines.
Les Burt
Les Burt
Stainless lines are on the list of "must haves".
I'll be making my own lines from scratch. That includes the fuel as well as
the brake lines. For the fuel system, I want to reduce the use of rubber to
a minimum as well as relocate the lines, 12v pumps, and a filter to the
outside of the frame in an attempt to "tolerate" ethanol use. There are no
"off the shelf" lines available for this, so I need to make my own. At this
point, the only difference in cost will be the materials, so going stainless
is a logical choice.
Thanks,
Les Burt
Montreal
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Rob Mueller
Sent: December 3, 2009 4:06 PM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frame Repair
Les,
I would suggest that if you decide to replace the brake lines you get the
stainless steel ones from Tom Hampton. THEY FIT!
I got a set from Classic Tube and had a hell of a time making them fit.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Rob Mueller
Below you will find a message I sent in awhile back.
*******************************************************
Jim,
Forget the braided stainless steel hose it's too expensive.
You can use solid steel tubing with these fittings:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#51875k23/=4afpxi
You'll have to cut the hose retaining beads off the ends of the tubes on the
sending units to use these fittings.
I HAVE verified that the distance between the two tube that come out of the
sending unit are far enough apart to use these fittings.
If you incorporate the steps below I can't see why you'd ever have to drop
your tanks again.
1) fit solid steel lines from the sending units to the side of the tank
2) remove the socks on the sending units
3) fit two of these Racor 250 micro filters externally
http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.de7b26ee6a659c147cf2671023
7ad1ca/?vgnextoid=fcc9b5bbec622110VgnVCM10000032a71dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default
&vgnextdiv=687630&vgnextcatid=2699978&vgnextcat=MARINE 025-RAC-01&Wtky=
Brass fittings and steel lines would work fine, if you want to have a bullet
proof system use stainless steel fittings and lines!
In case you're wondering, no I didn't do this to Double Trouble or The Blue
Streak, I only figured it out that the fittings would work when I pulled the
tanks and changed the lines last year at the COOP. Yes, I have bought all
the parts to do this to The Blue Streak.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Les Burt
Sent: Saturday, 5 December 2009 2:39 AM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frame Repair
Rob,
Stainless lines are on the list of "must haves".
I'll be making my own lines from scratch. That includes the fuel as well as
the brake lines. For the fuel system, I want to reduce the use of rubber to
a minimum as well as relocate the lines, 12v pumps, and a filter to the
outside of the frame in an attempt to "tolerate" ethanol use. There are no
"off the shelf" lines available for this, so I need to make my own. At this
point, the only difference in cost will be the materials, so going stainless
is a logical choice.
Thanks,
Les Burt
Montreal
_______________________________________________