[GMCnet] Serpentine Belt setup

[jdli...@hotmail.com]

Has anyone converted their 455 to a serpentine belt drive? With all of the issues with V-belt fitment and tensioning I am considering the option.
Thanks!
--
JD Lisenby- USAF Ret
1978 Royale-455
Electromotive Tec2 FI & ignition

Navarre, FL

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

[Jim Kanomata]

Lee Harrison did oe, and it was not very successful as he put the tensioner
on the wrong side.
We have had few we removed off customers coach we dumped in recycle bins.
My feeling is that it would be better to keep the v belt as I have not seen
that much problems.
I believe Gary Kosier knows how to do one that works.

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

[Gary Kosier]

Yes, I built a "thrifty boy" serpentine for the Olds, using brackets off a
Chevy truck using a modern CS130D alternator and a Sanden
AC compressor. No on showed any interest, so I just left it lay.

Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jdli...@hotmail.com" <jdli...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 4:20 PM
To: <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org>
Subject: [GMCnet] Serpentine Belt setup

[John Phillips]

Gary,
What would the advantage be?
What does it cost?
How is it working for you?

--

*John Phillips*

[John Wright]

Gary,
I know that many want to know what you did, how you did it and what parts did you use. I know that you have pictures out there and I will post the link in this Email. Everyone will need to read the explanations under the pictures.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6621-serpentine-belt-conversion.html

JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

[Gary Kosier]

Well, first would be that the serpentine is the modern design. The belt
manufacturers
have mostly converted to metric sizes. And they're not replacing an
equipment as the
V-belt is being phased out. Quality is in the toilet with some brands.
Second, using solid, cast aluminum brackets eliminates that cobbled up mess
of of
brackets, braces, spacers and various hootises that Olds used to attach the
accessories.
And, of course, using a modern alternator and AC compressor is an
advantage.
I forgot to mention that the serpentine belt is always correctly adjusted.
Costwise, It's hard to remember. I got the big brackets and alternator at
the junkyard.
The worst part was Chevy had a brain fart on their design. They put a
mounting bolt
behind the PS pump reservoir. You have to remove the pump to get to it. To
remove
The pump mounting bolts, you have to remove the pressed on pulley.(in the
yard)
I later found another pump with an offset reservoir that gives access to the
bolt.
And I put a hole in the pulley that gives access to the pump mounting bolts.
The Chevy brackets are made for the R4 round AC compressor, but the Sanden
will
fit the same holes. I made brackets to offset the Sanden upwards to clear
the valve cover.
I got the Olds reverse rotation water pump at the deep discount. All of the
head scratching
and measuring and labor were free, of course.
Oh, I forgot, walking out in the yard, I passed a Dodge truck with the nose
off. Realizing
that I needed a long belt for measuring I clipped it and removed it. The
crank pulley
looked handy, so I took it also. Lucky me, it turned out to have the
correct offset for
my needs after redrilling the bolt holes.
How's it working out for me? I took this on as a challenge to see if I
could make it work.
After I did, no one was interested and since I use a Cadillac, it's just
laying there.
Sorry about the long explanation, but that's the way I am.

Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------

From: "John Phillips" <john.ph...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 11:38 PM
To: <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Serpentine Belt setup

[Gary Kosier]

John,

Kinda' embarrassing, but those pictures are of the Cadillac conversion.
I've got a write up and pictures somewhere, but since there was
ZERO interest in the project, I just tucked it away somewhere.

Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Wright" <powe...@chartermi.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 9:40 AM

To: <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Serpentine Belt setup

> Gary,

[John Wright]

Gary,
I posted your pictures, see previous email.

John

_______________________________________________

[Rob Mueller]

John,

They are pictures of Gary's Caddy 500 not an Olds 455.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/serpentine-belt-conversion/p55008-ps-pump-installed.html

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John Wright
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 4:25 AM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Serpentine Belt setup

Gary,

I posted your pictures, see previous email.

John

[John Wright]

Rob,
I posted the album this morning.

John

[jdli...@hotmail.com]

I was thinking of this http://marchperformance.com/oldsmobile/oldsmobile-455/all-inclusive-kits.html . Fully engineered, equipped with a modern A/C
compressor. It's spendy but I am going to be driving this coach at least 25 years (If I don't kick it first) and I really hate screwing with the
constant adjustment and PITA belt changes of the stock setup.






Kosier wrote on Tue, 29 August 2017 10:05

> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 11:38 PM
> To:

> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Serpentine Belt setup
>
> > Gary,
> > What would the advantage be?
> > What does it cost?
> > How is it working for you?
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 7:55 PM, Gary Kosier

> > wrote:
> >
> >> Yes, I built a "thrifty boy" serpentine for the Olds, using brackets off
> >> a
> >> Chevy truck using a modern CS130D alternator and a Sanden
> >> AC compressor. No on showed any interest, so I just left it lay.
> >>
> >> Gary Kosier
> >> 77PB w/500Cad
> >> Newark, Ohio
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> From: "Jdli...@hotmail.com"

> >> Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 4:20 PM
> >> To:

[D C _Mac_ Macdonald]

Gotta admit, this is pretty neat.



D C "Mac" Macdonald
Amateur Radio K2GKK
Since 30 November '53
USAF and FAA, Retired
Member GMCMI & Classics
Oklahoma City, OK
"The Money Pit"
TZE166V101966
'76 ex-Palm Beach
k2gkk + hotmail dot com

From: Gmclist <gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org> on behalf of Jdlisenby@ <hotmail.com jdli...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 16:14
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Serpentine Belt setup

I was thinking of this (http://marchperformance.com/oldsmobile/oldsmobile-455/all-inclusive-kits.html)

Fully engineered, equipped with a modern A/C compressor. It's spendy but I am going to be driving this coach at least 25 years (If I don't kick it first) and I really hate screwing with the constant adjustment and PITA belt changes of the stock setup.

[Ken Henderson]

At one time Jim Bounds said he was negotiating with March for a GMCMH
version without all the "bling". I've heard nothing more for many months;
you might check with him.

Beyond that, after having developed a very satisfactory, inexpensive, dual
serpentine system for my Cad500, I'm convinced that a similar system can be
fitted to the 455. I haven't seen Gary's setup so I can't comment on it.
If I still had a 455 on the floor, I'd be studying it, but I don't have.

My Cad took a couple of days of sitting & pondering, but eventually it all
worked out with only a little machining and welding. It doesn't require a
reverse flow water pump and includes a Sanden A/C compressor and CS-130D
alternator.

I should note that I ran a single serpentine belt (JR Slaten & Bobby Moore
design) for several years before installing the Cad 500, so I'm a firm
believer in them.

Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Jdli...@hotmail.com <
jdli...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I was thinking of this http://marchperformance.com/ol
> dsmobile/oldsmobile-455/all-inclusive-kits.html . Fully engineered,
> equipped with a modern A/C
> compressor. It's spendy but I am going to be driving this coach at least
> 25 years (If I don't kick it first) and I really hate screwing with the
> constant adjustment and PITA belt changes of the stock setup.
>

[jdli...@hotmail.com]

As luck would have it I will be picking up CoRVy on Friday and I will ask Jim about it. I would love a no-frills March setup.

Ken Henderson wrote on Tue, 29 August 2017 18:16

--
JD Lisenby- USAF Ret
1978 Royale-455
Electromotive Tec2 FI & ignition

Navarre, FL

[Gary Kosier]

Before you get real excited about that March serpentine, think about trying
to hit the crank pulley with a timing light.
It's difficult enough with a stocker, but impossible with that concoction.

Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------

From: "Jdli...@hotmail.com" <jdli...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 8:41 PM

To: <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Serpentine Belt setup

> As luck would have it I will be picking up CoRVy on Friday and I will ask
> Jim about it. I would love a no-frills March setup.

[jdli...@hotmail.com]

The coach has crank triggered ignition and the timing is set on the laptop. I would like a more OEM pulley style setup as appearance is not important
and it would be a heck of a lot cheaper, that's why I asked if anyone had tried it. I figured with all the issues V-belts cause, someone else might
have already solved the issue (don't reinvent the wheel etc etc). I figured this would make a good winter project.

Kosier wrote on Tue, 29 August 2017 20:14

> Before you get real excited about that March serpentine, think about trying
> to hit the crank pulley with a timing light.
> It's difficult enough with a stocker, but impossible with that concoction.
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77PB w/500Cad
> Newark, Ohio
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Jdli...@hotmail.com"

> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 8:41 PM
> To:

> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Serpentine Belt setup
>
> > As luck would have it I will be picking up CoRVy on Friday and I will ask
> > Jim about it. I would love a no-frills March setup.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

--
JD Lisenby- USAF Ret
1978 Royale-455
Electromotive Tec2 FI & ignition

Navarre, FL

[Richard Denney]

I've decided to add "hootis" to my vocabulary. So much more elegant than
putter-onner. And it captures the sheer insanity of all the random bits of
mutually interlocking puzzle pieces that attach the power steering bracket.

I never considered a serpentine setup, because each of the 4,576 times I've
had to mess with the belts on my coach, I was convinced it was the last.

Rick "still convinced" Denney

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:06 AM Gary Kosier <gko...@roadrunner.com> wrote:

> ...hootises...

--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com

[Gary Kosier]

Please tell me more about the crank triggered ignition. I'm working on
designing a crank triggered ignition for both the Cadillac and Olds.
It's slow going, because my body can't get the things done that my mind can
promote. LOL

Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------

From: "Jdli...@hotmail.com" <jdli...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 10:07 PM
To: <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org>

[James Hupy]

Gary, if you think it is bad today, just wait a few years. (Grin)
Jim Hupy presently in Vienna, Austria with 50 or so of our GMC Friends. On
a river cruise.

[Justin Brady]

I would love a serpentine conversion.
I'm a pro at changing belts at this point, but I'd prefer to never do it again.
--
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455

[jdli...@hotmail.com]

The coach has an electromotive Tec2 fuel injection and ignition system. They make an ignition control only box as well, uses a 60-2 crank trigger
wheel. My system runs great but is no longer supported. I am considering my replacement options while it still runs great. This is there ignition
system
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electromotive-XDI-8-Cylinder-Complete-Distributorless-Ignition-package-/311863507134?hash=item489c8378be:g:ODMAAOSw~y9ZC6i6&vxp=mtr

Kosier wrote on Wed, 30 August 2017 11:14

> Please tell me more about the crank triggered ignition. I'm working on
> designing a crank triggered ignition for both the Cadillac and Olds.
> It's slow going, because my body can't get the things done that my mind can
> promote. LOL
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77PB w/500Cad
> Newark, Ohio
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Jdli...@hotmail.com"

> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 10:07 PM
> To:

[Rob Mueller]

Jim,

I'm not on the cruise with you guys, however, I'd say quite a few of the guys on the GMCnet are "in the same boat!" ;-)

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----

From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of James Hupy
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 3:01 AM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Serpentine Belt setup

Gary, if you think it is bad today, just wait a few years. (Grin) Jim Hupy presently in Vienna, Austria with 50 or so of our GMC
Friends. On a river cruise.

On Aug 30, 2017 9:15 AM, "Gary Kosier" <gko...@roadrunner.com> wrote:

> Please tell me more about the crank triggered ignition. I'm working on
> designing a crank triggered ignition for both the Cadillac and Olds.
> It's slow going, because my body can't get the things done that my mind
> can promote. LOL
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77PB w/500Cad
> Newark, Ohio
>

[Gary Kosier]

Interesting! Those coils are the GM Waste Coils as used on a bunch of
vehicles. My concoction is based on the ignition control module
with those coils as used on the 93-99 Cadillac Northstar. Since that motor
becomes an unserviceable lump at about 100k miles, the
modules become readily available in the men's mall. It does require a GM
ECM to provide an advance protocol. Obviously, the EBL
conversion normally used in the GMC conversion to EFI. I should add that
one of my sources has it working with MegaSquirt EFI.
I am going to try to have a show-and-tell display at Elkhart if you're going
to be there.

Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------

From: "Jdli...@hotmail.com" <jdli...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 5:17 PM
To: <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org>

[Gary Kosier]

Well, sorry guys. I typed up a long explanation of the serp setup.
But the list moderator rejected it as too long. I'm too tired to sort it
out
and try to fix it.

Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

[jdli...@hotmail.com]

That sucks! After seeing your Cad solution I am really interested in what you came up with. There are a lot of things I can do but fabrication isn't
my strong suit.

--
JD Lisenby- USAF Ret
1978 Royale-455
Electromotive Tec2 FI & ignition

Navarre, FL

[jdli...@hotmail.com]

I wish I could go but we can't make it this year. I have been looking at the MegaSquirt, Halltech and even the Fitech port injection. I hate the idea
of going backwards to a throttle body setup. The coach runs great as is but if the ECU takes a dump I will be dead in the water without a replacement.
I like the fact the coils are readily available and the tuning is flexible but frankly electromotive lost some key people and their tech support is
lacking. If I get a newer version of their ECU I can just load up my Bin file and go. I am really looking at all possible options to keep port
injection and run a modern ECU.

Kosier wrote on Wed, 30 August 2017 18:16

> Interesting! Those coils are the GM Waste Coils as used on a bunch of
> vehicles. My concoction is based on the ignition control module
> with those coils as used on the 93-99 Cadillac Northstar. Since that motor
> becomes an unserviceable lump at about 100k miles, the
> modules become readily available in the men's mall. It does require a GM
> ECM to provide an advance protocol. Obviously, the EBL
> conversion normally used in the GMC conversion to EFI. I should add that
> one of my sources has it working with MegaSquirt EFI.
> I am going to try to have a show-and-tell display at Elkhart if you're going
> to be there.
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77PB w/500Cad
> Newark, Ohio
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Jdli...@hotmail.com"

> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 5:17 PM
> To:

> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Serpentine Belt setup
>
> > The coach has an electromotive Tec2 fuel injection and ignition system.
> > They make an ignition control only box as well, uses a 60-2 crank trigger
> > wheel. My system runs great but is no longer supported. I am considering
> > my replacement options while it still runs great. This is there ignition
> > system
> >

> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electromotive-XDI-8-Cylinder-Complete-Distributorless-Ignition-package-/311863507134?hash=item489c8378be:g:ODMAAOSw~y9ZC6i6&am
> > p;am p;vxp=mtr

[Gary Kosier]

If you already have a port injection manifold, I would recommend sticking to
all GM parts, where possible. The advantages are good quality,
ready supply of parts both new and used, cheap prices, and terrific support
from the GMCMH-EFI group. The EBL P4 conversion from
Dynamic EFI gives easy adjustability to your individual combination. And,
of course, it will support my concoction of distributorless ignition.
GM is going to be around for a long time and there is a wealth of
documentation on all their stuff.
More to come!

Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------

From: "Jdli...@hotmail.com" <jdli...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 10:11 PM
To: <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org>

[Trevor Pordage]

my previous owner Bobby Moore installed a serpentine belt setup on my coach .i dont know much about it . i took some photos yesterday but it is
difficult to get good shots i posted them in the gmc photo page if searching for them use serpintine i spelt it wrong
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/mechanical/p63657-serpintine-belt.html
--
Trevor
Brisbane Australia
Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moores)
71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project

[John Wright]

Trevor,
Bobby was a very creative person and had many different projects on his coach each year. First met him in 1999 and the Myrtle Beach GMCMI spring convention.

JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

[Ken Henderson]

It's my understanding that Bobby and JR Slaten developed that serpentine
system together. Bobby gave me the 3rd set they made. There seem to be
some differences between Trevor's set and mine, but then I made some
changes myself so they may have been identical earlier. That engine and
belts are on the engine in my son's coach, so one day maybe I'll get a
chance to make photos of it to post. I must say that it's performed
flawlessly for maybe 70,000 miles, even running the OEM-style Water Pump
backward.

I did have some WP problems not long before I installed the Cad 500, but
they were all occurred while I was testing protypes of Leigh Harrison's
reverse flow design. The final version of that is still hanging on my
storeroom wall, unused. That was before the 350 diesel reverse flow pump
was discovered. When the last prototype failed on me, I installed an Auto
Zone severe duty pump, without even improving the flow pattern as I'd done
previously. My son's probably put 15-20,000 SE USA miles on that with no
overheating problems.

I still think a simpler system, using two serpentine belts, can be made for
very little cost -- I haven't yet seen Gary K's version.

Ken H


On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 3:29 PM, Trevor Pordage <5758br...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> my previous owner Bobby Moore installed a serpentine belt setup on my
> coach .i dont know much about it . i took some photos yesterday but it is
> difficult to get good shots i posted them in the gmc photo page if
> searching for them use serpintine i spelt it wrong
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/mechanical/p63657-serpintine-belt.html
> --
>

[Rob Mueller]

Trevor,

Thanks, Mate!

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----

From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Trevor Pordage
Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 5:29 AM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Serpentine Belt setup

my previous owner Bobby Moore installed a serpentine belt setup on my coach .i dont know much about it . i took some photos
yesterday but it is difficult to get good shots i posted them in the gmc photo page if searching for them use serpintine i spelt it
wrong

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/mechanical/p63657-serpintine-belt.html
--
Trevor

[Trevor Pordage]

i am discovering how creative bobby moore was there are lots of little extras. when i first got the coach i noticed how all the slots in the screws
are in vertical alignment as well as the crosses in the phillip head screws are all in the same orientation . this indicates to me how much thought he
put into everything

[Ken Henderson]

Trevor,

How 'bout that electric parking brake? Previously an electric seat
adjuster, IIRC. :-)

Bobby was the very first GMCer we met in '98. We attended our first GMC
rally at Lake Lanier Islands, GA in our 40' diesel pusher before getting
the GMC road-ready. We were parked well away from the GMC's and
encountered the Moore's enroute to the "rest of the crowd". It took a
couple of hours to get to the "rest of the crowd". Our friendship grew
continuously from then until he passed away; I learned a LOT from him.

Ken H.


On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:26 AM, Trevor Pordage <5758br...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Trevor Pordage]

unfortunately ken that parking brake was no longer in operation when i got the coach it had standard calipers on the rear wheels and all the parking
brake cable was gone the seat adjuster is still there . this is one of my problems as to register here i need a working park brake i am in the process
of converting the rear wheel set back to drums and Rob . M has brought a handbrake lever and front cable back from the states

[Ken Henderson]

Trevor,

You may want to consider keeping the seat adjuster to pull the parking
brake cable. That setup was a lot more effective than the hand lever when
Bobby had it working. I'm sure there are photos somewhere of that, or a
similar, setup if you can't figure out how it worked. That's assuming the
law down there only cares if it works, not how.

Ken H.


On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Trevor Pordage <5758br...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

"but frankly electromotive lost some key people and their tech support is lacking."

EMD? The fine folks who make Really Big gensets??? Electronmotive Division?

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

[jdli...@hotmail.com]

Not the same folks. These guys specialize in high performance engine controllers https://electromotive.com/contact-us/

Johnny Bridges wrote on Tue, 05 September 2017 14:02

> "but frankly electromotive lost some key people and their tech support is lacking."
>

> EMD? The fine folks who make Really Big gensets??? Electromotive Division?
>
> --johnny

--
JD Lisenby- USAF Ret
1978 Royale-455
Electromotive Tec2 FI & ignition

Navarre, FL