[GMCnet] Dropping the fuel tanks and replacing rubber fuel lines on the Barn Queen

[Robin Hood]

20 years sitting in a barn. I do not want to, but I feel that I must do
this. The rubber lines are sure to be dry rotted, and there's a good chance
that the tanks may be full of rust or something.

The tanks need to be inspected, yes? And I must drop them to do this, yes?
And I need to drop them in order to replace all the rubber anyway, yes?

I think I will buy some 2x12s and build a ramp that will put the bottom of
the tires a foot and a half off the ground. That will give me enough room
to get underneath and do things.

I will be doing this in the driveway of my house. The weather is pleasant
enough, there are no wasps, and it's convenient. I might ougt to "strike
while the iron is hot" as they say, especially since my dear sweet wife is
so enthusiastic.

Comments or suggestions? I believe the tank dropping procedure is in X7725
somewhere? It wasn' tin the main manual that I downloaded, I need to go
find it. I would love to hear some been-there-done-thats from those that
have done this before already. Comments, suggestions, attaboys etc are all
welcome. There will be video.

Hoses will be replaced with corn-proof hose.



--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

[Robin Hood]

Also, this looks rather instructive...
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5520-gas-tank-fuel-line-project-6-10.html

[Johnny Bridges]

I use 4x4s (because siomeone gave me a truckload of them) but whatever, crib the thing up solidly.  Not like you had it in the pic waiting for the brake mechanic.  If it falls on you, you ain't coming back out from under it again.
 
--johnny

[Robin Hood]

I'll make sure it's SOLID.

[Larry Davick]

Robin,

I took the coward's way out on the coach and had Jim K's folks replace all the soft lines. (My best tool is my checkbook.)

However on my daughter's Vanagon Westfalia, that had been sitting for 21 years, I replaced the fuel tank. I anticipated a heavy tank full of old fuel, however it had no liquid in it at all. I suspect it had evaporated, and the result was a tar-like goo that remained. For the GMC I would recommend finding a local shop that can boil and coat the tanks.

I would not get stuck in the "while I'm at it" game (too much.) For instance adding electric fuel pumps, though it will be nice to do at the time, is not in line with the primary goal of getting her on the road. A large fuel filter might not take too much time and might be beneficial, though if the tanks are cleaned and the hoses are new the need is lessened.

Here is some - while you're at it stuff that might be worthwhile - I really like the things guys are doing with port-holes in the floor so that they can access the tank opening. This would enable you to add the in-tank fuel pumps at a later time if you choose to. If any of your steel lines are clogged, corroded, or you just want to replace them, I would recommend PolyArmor < http://www.agscompany.com/automotive/brake-fuel-transmission-lines/poly-armour> It's very easy to work with, corrosion resistant, and should be available at your local Napa Auto parts, though they may not know it by name.

Don't forget the vent lines, the generator supply line, and the vapor canister and separator. Some have removed the vapor canister, I think it's a good thing to have. The idea of collecting fuel vapor when sitting and then sucking it into the carb to be burned is a good thing. The supply side has to be looked at too. Once all of this is back in place you'll be able to set the nozzle and fill the tanks whilst enjoying a cool beverage. Once the coach is running I expect you'll this quite often!

Good luck to you and enjoy the ride!

Larry Davick
Fremont, California
A Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach

[Todd Sullivan]

If you have a radiator repair place nearby they coul have the ability to tank your tanks as well as have a scope with which to inspect for corrosion.

Todd Sullivan

Sully
77 royale
Seattle

[RC Jordan]

>I would not get stuck in the "while I'm at it" game (too much.)

Yeah, my thought, too. You're the guy who was going to ship the coach off as a Burning Man sacrifice, right? If so, this is a big shift in trajectory and may need some "good times" logged in asap. That said, breaking down isn't a good time for anybody ..except maybe Ken H.

So maybe put slush the tanks, replace the fuel lines and filters, mark the spots in the floor for access ports and take it around the block a few times, then out to a nearby state park or rv resort.

That's the best-case scenario, though, because the average rebooted vehicle soon starts to shake out some other problems. Whatever you do, I'd keep the wife appraised of the risks involved in having an adventure involving vintage vehicles.
--
77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath

[Rob Mueller]

Robin,

The 20 year old lines are NOT compatible with ethanol, neither are 35 year old lines! ;-)

I think ramps that are 1 1/2 feet tall are a bit ambitious for a GMC to climb. Even with the air bags fully expanded I don't know if
you'd be able to clear the body sections behind the rear wheels. I assume you would be backing in towards your house to get up on
them and that would be a bit scary if something went wrong.

I just measured the ones that John Sharpe built, they are 8" high, 10" wide and 72" long and HEAVY!

I could have sworn that you had a set of wooden jack stands when I was over there helping you with the rear brakes. Why don't you
use them? If you want them higher add a few extra "steps."

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Hood

20 years sitting in a barn. I do not want to, but I feel that I must do
this. The rubber lines are sure to be dry rotted, and there's a good chance
that the tanks may be full of rust or something.

The tanks need to be inspected, yes? And I must drop them to do this, yes?
And I need to drop them in order to replace all the rubber anyway, yes?

I think I will buy some 2x12s and build a ramp that will put the bottom of
the tires a foot and a half off the ground. That will give me enough room
to get underneath and do things.

I will be doing this in the driveway of my house. The weather is pleasant
enough, there are no wasps, and it's convenient. I might ougt to "strike
while the iron is hot" as they say, especially since my dear sweet wife is
so enthusiastic.

Comments or suggestions? I believe the tank dropping procedure is in X7725
somewhere? It wasn' tin the main manual that I downloaded, I need to go
find it. I would love to hear some been-there-done-thats from those that
have done this before already. Comments, suggestions, attaboys etc are all
welcome. There will be video.

Hoses will be replaced with corn-proof hose.
--
Robin

[Galen Briggs]

I dropped my tanks pretty soon after I got my coach. It leaked out a line on top when the PO filled the tanks for my test drive. I built these ramps http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/wood-ramp-construction/p5006.html

They are long and heavy, and I used treated wood, making them heavier yet. But short of a pit/lift, I think they put things at about the perfect height for laying on your back and working. Too high is a strain, makes for too far to steady the drop, and gets you in the position for more stuff to fall in your face. I love the rams, and they give me plenty of room to do what I've needed under there. I do most of my work outside on the concrete pad in front of my garage.

The tanks came out pretty easy with some vice grips and electric impact wrench, couple pieces of plywood and a floor jack. I pumped out all I could, and it was a handful but I got them off and on myself; I need more friends who have my same work schedule.
--
Galen Briggs
New Virginia, Iowa
1978 Palm Beach

[Robin Hood]

Rob "Safety Officer" Mueller persuaded me off-list to just go with the 8
jackstands I've already got instead of building expensive and heavy ramps
that will be hard to store. :)

--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"

[RC Jordan]

>Safety Officer

Good.

For those lurking

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6041-using-12000-pound-wooden-jack-stands.html

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5461-12-ton-jack-stands.html

--
77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath

[Jim Wagner]

Robin,
Might I suggest that you also block up the rear of your coach after you drive it up on the ramps. There is always a chance that you could lose air to one or both air bags. It could drop enough to give you a bit of a headache.
Here are some photos of the access holes we have in our GMC to get to the sending units

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gas-tank-location-for-26-gmc/p37572-gmc-gas-tank-access-00.html

Jim Wagner
Brook Park, oh

[John R. Lebetski]

Be sure to buy BARRIER fuel line. It comes on hi and lo pressure type.
--
John Lebetski
Chicago, IL
77 Eleganza II
Source America First

[r...@gmcnet.org]

JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 08 November 2013 18:27

> Be sure to buy BARRIER fuel line. It comes on hi and lo pressure type.

And get the fuel rail to tanks and the fuel fill hoses from Jim k before you start the job.
--
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook

[Robin Hood]

Bwah? Isn't it just a matter of getting local corn-proof hose at my corner
parts store? Or is this some part that I'm not thinking about?

--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"

[Larry Davick]

You'll be able to buy barrier hose at the corner auto parts store. You might be able to get PolyArmor steel lines too. The low pressure hose is easier to work with.

Long ago when Arch tackled his fuel lines he found the steel vent tube completely plugged with old crystallized fuel.

You'll plug through it. Total shade tree job. You're overqualified.

Larry Davick
A Palm Beach

[Dennis Sexton]

Robin Hood wrote on Fri, 08 November 2013 21:00

> Bwah? Isn't it just a matter of getting local corn-proof hose at my corner
> parts store? Or is this some part that I'm not thinking about?

Robin,

The best ideas and all the part numbers are posted AFTER you finish the job.

Dennis
--
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Germantown, TN

[Dan Borlase]

THOSE OF US THAT HAVE DONE IT WILL AGREE...THIS IS NOT ROCKETT SCIENCE...JUST WORK...

[Rob Mueller]

Robin,

Barricade Fuel Hose:

http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=12468&location_id=5348

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Hood

Bwah? Isn't it just a matter of getting local corn-proof hose at my corner parts store? Or is this some part that I'm not thinking
about?

Robin

[Jp Benson]

I used this lift to remove my tanks.

http://www.harborfreight.com/1500-lb-capacity-atvmotorcycle-lift-60536.html

It requires enough clearance to slide under the coach with the handle
removed. Is good for removing bogies too.

JP

On 11/8/2013 2:31 PM, Robin Hood wrote:
> 20 years sitting in a barn. I do not want to, but I feel that I must do
> this. The rubber lines are sure to be dry rotted, and there's a good chance
> that the tanks may be full of rust or something.
>
> The tanks need to be inspected, yes? And I must drop them to do this, yes?
> And I need to drop them in order to replace all the rubber anyway, yes?
>
> I think I will buy some 2x12s and build a ramp that will put the bottom of
> the tires a foot and a half off the ground. That will give me enough room
> to get underneath and do things.
>
> I will be doing this in the driveway of my house. The weather is pleasant
> enough, there are no wasps, and it's convenient. I might ougt to "strike
> while the iron is hot" as they say, especially since my dear sweet wife is
> so enthusiastic.
>
> Comments or suggestions? I believe the tank dropping procedure is in X7725
> somewhere? It wasn' tin the main manual that I downloaded, I need to go
> find it. I would love to hear some been-there-done-thats from those that
> have done this before already. Comments, suggestions, attaboys etc are all
> welcome. There will be video.
>
> Hoses will be replaced with corn-proof hose.
>
>
>

[Johnny Bridges]

I will use jackstands >only< if I have a solid level floor - otherwise it is possible for one or more to lean and fall.  Since I am normally on ASB covered clay, I use pyramids of cribbing.  On a flat concrete driveway, the stands should work just fine.

 
--johnny

From: Robin Hood <lox...@gmail.com>
To: "gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org>

[Johnny Bridges]

Your parts store will have it.  I get it off Advance, 'alcohol proof'.  Low pressure has R9 on what I get.  It ain't cheeep.

 
--johnny
 

From: Robin Hood <lox...@gmail.com>
To: "gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 8, 2013 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dropping the fuel tanks and replacing rubber fuel lines on the Barn Queen

[Rob Mueller]

Johnny,

Gates Barricade is available at O'Reilly's Auto Parts in 25 foot long lengths:

1/4" ID = Item number 27313 = http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/GATY/27313.oap?ck=Search_27313_-1_-1&keyword=27313

5/16" ID = Item number 27314 = http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/GATY/27314.oap?ck=Search_27314_-1_-1&keyword=27314

3/8" ID = Item number 27315 = http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/GATY/27315.oap?ck=Search_27315_-1_-1&keyword=27315

1/2" ID = Item number 27316 = http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/GATY/27316.oap?ck=Search_27316_-1_-1&keyword=27316

They also have it in other lengths.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic

USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428

-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Bridges

Your parts store will have it.  I get it off Advance, 'alcohol proof'.  Low pressure has R9 on what I get.  It ain't cheeep.
 
--johnny

[Larry Davick]

Robin,

This picture shows an area where I would use the steel line, like PolyArmor, to replace as much of the rubber as practical. Of course you could use the rubber as a transition, but my thought is that I'd rather have steel than rubber.

<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gas-tank-fuel-line-project-6-10/p34764-gas-tank-clean-up-fuel-line-replacement.html>

Here's a question for the net - does the benefit of steel lines outweigh the possible trouble of the added transitions from steel to rubber? I may not have thought this through. 50' of rubber will wear exactly as much as 5" will…

Larry Davick

[Steve Adams]

Larry,
Your work is AMAZING!

Nice pictures. I wish I could find more time for the GMC. I think fuel system just moved up a few notches on my to do list.
--
1978 GMC Royal
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special

[Matt Colie]

ljdavick wrote on Sat, 09 November 2013 16:02

> Robin,
>
> This picture shows an area where I would use the steel line, like PolyArmor, to replace as much of the rubber as practical. Of course you could use the rubber as a transition, but my thought is that I'd rather have steel than rubber.
>
> <http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gas-tank-fuel-line-project-6-10/p34764-gas-tank-clean-up-fuel-line-replacement.html>
>

> Here's a question for the net - does the benefit of steel lines outweigh the possible trouble of the added transitions from steel to rubber? I may not have thought this through. 50' of rubber will wear exactly as much as 5" will...
>
> Larry Davick

Larry,

I thought I had posted the pictures of the Polyarmor over the tanks from my project, but I can't find them. I finished with only about 4 feet total of rubber line under the coach. All of that can be replaced without dropping tanks. This was after the third tank removal to repair rubbber lines. I have had no trouble with the metal to rubber connections, and if I do, I will tighten the clamp and go on.

And it is not just over the tank. The first time was the fill vent line. Those are only partly over the tank. but you have to take the whole system down to replace them properly.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Mike Miller]

Jp Benson wrote on Sat, 09 November 2013 05:39

> I used this lift to remove my tanks.
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/1500-lb-capacity-atvmotorcycle-lift-60536.html
>

> It requires enough clearance to slide under the coach with the handle removed. ...


In the past, someone posted that they used a couple of ratcheting cargo straps to raise the tanks. IIRC he hooked the ends to the frame with the straps under the tank... then cranked the tanks into place. (Sounds MUCH easier than the jack I used.) These cheap "HF" ones should work for empty tanks: http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-1-inch-x-15-ft-ratcheting-tie-down-set-90984.html

I am fairly sure you can find other uses for the straps when done.

To who suggested "pyramids of cribbing" should see what "jack stands" Robin is talking about. They ARE "pyramids of cribbing" -- they are just connected together.

--
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#1)'73 26' exPainted D. -- (#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
http://m000035.blogspot.com

[Matt Colie]

Mike Miller wrote on Sat, 09 November 2013 21:23

> In the past, someone posted that they used a couple of ratcheting cargo straps to raise the tanks. IIRC he hooked the ends to the frame with the straps under the tank... then cranked the tanks into place. (Sounds MUCH easier than the jack I used.) These cheap "HF" ones should work for empty tanks: http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-1-inch-x-15-ft-ratcheting-tie-down-set-90984.html
>
> I am fairly sure you can find other uses for the straps when done.
>
> To who suggested "pyramids of cribbing" should see what "jack stands" Robin is talking about. They ARE "pyramids of cribbing" -- they are just connected together.

Mike,

I'm pretty sure that was my write-up that you remember and yes, the HF cargo straps worked real well at a 10$ (perpetually on sale at that price) are a reasonable investment and very easy to store. I didn't use the ratchet part as I tie lines much faster and easier than the ratchet can work, but if one does not, the ratchet works too.

The absolute best part is that the straps don't take up the space under the tank where you and the creeper need to be to make up all the connections.

Tanks go up real easily if you set each on a creeper and roll it over the straps that you have hung over the top of the transvers frames in front of and behind that tank. Then you can stretch under the coach and lift the tank off the creeper and you get it back for you to use. You don't have to juggle the tank, and it can be nearly or all lined up and wait there all day.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Carl Stouffer]

Robin,

There are several albums on the photo site dealing with tanks and fuel lines. Here's mine:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5520-gas-tank-fuel-line-project-6-10.html

Hope it helps.
--
Carl S.
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.

[Robin Hood]

Update.

I got the Queen lifted on four of the 12-ton jackstands. There's enough
room to crawl around under there. Not much more, though.

I identified the straps that hold the tanks in. Two straps per tank. Each
strip has a long bolt of some sort.

I identified a gizmo with fuel lines coming into it and back out of it,
with an electrical wire(s) coming out the top. This may be some sort of
selector valve.

I identified the main filler tube. It looks like an inch, inch and a half
wide metal pipe. It connects to each fuel tank via a short piece of rubber
hose with hose clamps... said hose looks like it's an inch across.

I'm a bit confused due to the other bits of fuel line. There's a "vent"
line that goes from one of the tanks (can't tell which yet) to the filler
neck. There's a fuel line for the Onan heading aft (can't tell which tank
it comes from yet). Then there are a couple of more lines, one of which has
to be the actual engine fuel supply, but what's the other one? There's also
a hard line... whhat else is in that vicinity? Am i confusing a brake line?
Battery cable? Hot Water Line From Engine? (Need to make sure to undo
that!).

I have some blurry engineering drawings that Mr. Burkett sent me that show
an overview.

In other news, while I was down there, I identified the connector for what
I assume to be the Onan's control panel in thet coach. It's some wires that
head into a connector at any rate, located in the Onan compartment. Dunno
where it's supposed to plug into. The main wires from the Onan were cut
more or less flush with the body... I'm going to have to run new wires.
Will probably open up the AC distribution panel and tie new wire to the old
wire, and use the old wire to fish it back through the system. Dunno how
well that's going to work. But that's another project.

Identified what I think is the house battery connection in the battery
compartment... and another BIG wasp nest. Dead, of course.

With regard to my water tank, I know a guy that is building a kayak out of
milk jugs who knows all about welding this sort of thing.

Fuel tanks first, though. '

Maybe I should get a few colors of electrical tape and use that to identify
which bits do what. I really want to know what EVERYHING is, for certain,
before I go around taking things off.

[RC Jordan]

GMC Fuel Tank Diagram

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/fuel-system/p51345-gmc-fuel-tank-diagram.html

--
77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath

[Robin Hood]

Aha! That vapor vent line is one I wasn't familiar with! I was wondering,
whilst beneath the coach, "Why is there a fuel line haring off to the
passenger side along that crossmember aft of the engine?"

--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"

[gene Fisher]

and there is this, and the whole set of pictures

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/4634/TANK_VENTS1.pdf

and this
donot remove the tanks without
- fixing the senders
- new gaskets

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/23-gas-tank-sender-repair/p37203-gas-tank-sender-repair.html

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5469-gas-tanks-for-23.html

and here for vents
http://gmcws.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/Listen_to_your_GMC-by-Gene-Fisher.pdf

remember, no one drops their tanks one time..
- hard lines
- senders
- be sure to do it all while there

gene

--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html

[RC Jordan]

>remember, no one drops their tanks one time..

Ouch! And true, I'm afraid. RC says as he waits for his HD borescope.

[Robin Hood]

Wait wait wait... I can just cut two holes in my floor, and that will allow
me to pull the senders, inspect the condition of the interior of my tanks,
and change out the fuel lines without having to drop my tanks? Am I
understanding this correctly?

--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"

[gene Fisher]

yep, and
you really only need one sender
- because the tanks are hooked together
- less than 10 gallons going back and forth between tanks
- senders are not calibrated so when 1/2 full , add 20 gal
so
just cut one hole,
- fix the sender
- check the filter
- change the gasket
and
after you have the hole, just 10 min to check the next time

the measurements show the approximate locations for the
senders,
start with a small hole and then enlarge over the sender

[Robin Hood]

So there's some plumbing added that connects the drain holes together then,
thus ensuring that the fuel is the same level in both tanks, yes? This is
the "Jim Bounds" mod from the last slide? I like that idea. No selector
switch to go bad (I don't even think I HAVE a selector switch anymore, have
you seen the Queen's dashboard???), no selector valve to go bad, no
possibility of having fuel in a tank that can't get to the engine.

I like it!

[Robin Hood]

I am going to assume that the gasket and the sender are either (a) a
commonly available part or (b) avaialable through one of our vendors.

For instance, JimK:
sender: http://appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/773
gasket: http://appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/916

Anybody got the measurments for a 26 foot, to zero in on the fuel tank
senders?

And what are the odds that the tanks, empty for 20 years, will be usable?

[Rob Mueller]

Gene,

Are you SURE you can CHANGE THE FUEL LINES?"

That will require threading two 3/8" lines (fuel & vent), one 5/16" line (carbon canister vent), and one 1/4" line (Onan) between
the tank and the underside of the floor.

When I dropped mine at the Coop the original lines were taped to the top of the tank and that's what we did with the new ones.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428

-----Original Message-----

From: gene Fisher

yep, and
you really only need one sender
- because the tanks are hooked together
- less than 10 gallons going back and forth between tanks
- senders are not calibrated so when 1/2 full , add 20 gal
so
just cut one hole,
- fix the sender
- check the filter
- change the gasket
and
after you have the hole, just 10 min to check the next time

the measurements show the approximate locations for the
senders,
start with a small hole and then enlarge over the sender

Gene

[Robin Hood]

Hmm... found an old thread at
http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&rid=0&th=21796&goto=171906#msg_171906

It seems that there's a possibility of fuel migrating on a hill. I may want
to think about it more at least as far as hooking the two tanks together at
the drain plug (nstead of through the fill line where they're already
connected).


Rob, I betcha I could fish the line through that channel between the tank
and the floor. I worked as an electrician's helper during college... it's
amazing the places that I can get a wire or cable. :)

--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"

[Matt Colie]

Robin Hood wrote on Fri, 15 November 2013 10:52

> I am going to assume that the gasket and the sender are either (a) a
> commonly available part or (b) avaialable through one of our vendors.
>
> For instance, JimK:
> sender: http://appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/773
> gasket: http://appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/916
>
> Anybody got the measurments for a 26 foot, to zero in on the fuel tank senders?
>
> And what are the odds that the tanks, empty for 20 years, will be usable?
> --
> Robin Hood

Robin,

In My estimation, the tanks will probably be good, but the bottom may be covered with the "varnish" that forms from old fuel. The problem with this is that the "varnish" will be attacked by any new fuel and turn into flakes that have the capability, opportunity and motive to screw up the complete rest of the fuel system. It will also be quite a trick to do everything you actually need to do through a hole in the floor.

I cannot locate my piece on how to lower and lift the tanks with the 10$ straps from Hazard Fright. I will keep looking.

As I have already done this operation way too many times, I advise that:
A- You start by wire brushing the long threads that hold the rear of both tanks so that these can be disassembled without damage.
B- Tanks be as completely de-fueled as possible. (There is a drain plug and an even bet that it will un-screw - takes an Allen wrench.)
C- You remove the fill pipe first and plan to install it last you will have an easier time. (If you are working alone, it is really tough to juggle the tank to hit the connection.)
D- You remove the front (auxiliary) tank first. This will give you easy access to the fasteners that hold the forward end of the tanks support straps for the aft (main) tank.

If you are working alone and on the ground, the strap trick is the best way to lower and lift the tanks (I did try several others on the way) as they allow you to work under the tanks as they are lowered and lifted.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Robin Hood]

Matt,

I have some ratcheting tie-down straps. I'm guessing that the holes in the
cross members are used as anchor points. I can see where you're going with
that, I think.

Both tanks should have long ago lost any fuel in them. I don't think
gasoline is stable over 20 years. I would prefer not to mess withi the
drain plug as I hear it can fail and there you are.

Cutting a hole in the floor and then looking around for obvious trouble in
the tank sounds like a great idea.

If there is residue/varnish left over from Bush the First's administration,
what's the fix? Mineral spirits and the drain plug?

--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"

[mr.er...@gmail.com]

Jimb has done it. Connect the two
Henderson has fed a return in the bottom

And
Never said could change the hoses

But if
Fills fast
No pressure in tanks
Do not over fill and may be ok

FREE WIFI @ Mickey D

[gene Fisher]

26 foot tank location
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/gas-tank-hard-lines/p33836-26-foot-tank-locatio.html

[Hardie Johnson]

Using Kroil (or transmission fluid + kerosene) on the threads ahead of time helps. Use new nuts to replace the tanks. Some people have replaced most of the rubber across the tops of the tanks with steel lines.
--
Hardie Johnson "Crashj"
1973 26 foot Glacier, White Thing
Raleigh NC

[Johnny Bridges]

If you tie them together at the bottom, you lose the 'reserve' ability of the stock setup.  Which means if the guage goes Dixie on you - which they are wont to do - you still have some reserve when the coach runs out.

 
--johnny
 

From: Robin Hood <lox...@gmail.com>
To: "gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dropping the fuel tanks and replacing rubber fuel lines on the Barn Queen

[Tim Conway]

On Nov 15, 2013, at 11:50 AM, Hardie Johnson wrote:

> Hardie Johnson "Crashj"

Hello Stranger! Glad to see you again.

Tim Conway
LI NY 78 PB

[gene Fisher]

when the tank gets to 1/2

add 20 gal

should never be on the bottom of tank any way
and
every car you ever owned , only had one tank
so nothing new

gene

--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html

[Hardie Johnson]

Tim Conway wrote on Fri, 15 November 2013 13:31

> Hello Stranger! Glad to see you again.
> Tim Conway
> LI NY 78 PB

Thanks, good to be back on. Trying to figure out if I should replace the transmission and go through the other messes or just offer it up for sale. I had done the tanks but probably need to flush them again.
My belly has never been flatter than the week I dropped the tanks ;) .

--
Hardie Johnson "Crashj"
1973 26 foot Glacier, White Thing
Raleigh NC

[Matt Colie]

Mr ERFisher wrote on Fri, 15 November 2013 15:04

> when the tank gets to 1/2
>
> add 20 gal
>
> should never be on the bottom of tank any way
> and every car you ever owned , only had one tank so nothing new
>
> gene

Gene,

Speak for yourself...

A, That depends on what you call a car....
B, I never owned a CAR that weighed 10000# and I lived in the back
C, I have owned several 4 wheeled vehicles with a reserve fuel (that you propose to disable) feature or dual tanks, and on occasion, this served me well.

In the times that we have had to "travel" the coach, we have put in near the capacity. Twice while it was my office/meeting room/technical instrument repair shop/tool crib/restaurant/motel I stopped and took on in excess of 53 gallons.

But then, fuel management is something pilots and mariner's have to understand.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Bill Gagnier]

Here are pictures of how I did mine. bill


http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6129-gas-tank-removal.html

75pb

[Emery Stora]

Since transmission fluid is basically kerosene with additives I think you meant to say kerosene + acetone or transmission fluid + acetone which is how some people make their own "liquid wrench".

Emery Stora

[Hardie Johnson]

Emery Stora wrote on Sat, 16 November 2013 07:42

> Since transmission fluid is basically kerosene with additives I think you meant to say kerosene + acetone or transmission fluid + acetone which is how some people make their own "liquid wrench".
>
> Emery Stora
> <>

Thanks for the reminder.
"Has several cans of Kroil around"

[Mike Miller]

I have never thought much of the idea of putting additional connections and stuff on the bottom of the tank. My luck I'd catch one on some road debris and leak all my fuel out.... without any reserve!

Your coach... your money... your choice... your problem.

:twisted:

Johnny Bridges wrote on Fri, 15 November 2013 10:17

> If you tie them together at the bottom, you lose the 'reserve' ability of the stock setup.  Which means if the guage goes Dixie on you - which they are wont to do - you still have some reserve when the coach runs out.
>  
> --johnny
>

> Hmm... found an old thread at
> http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&rid=0&th=21796&goto=171906#msg_171906
>

> It seems that there's a possibility of fuel migrating on a hill. I may want to think about it more at least as far as hooking the two tanks together at the drain plug (nstead of through the fill line where they're already connected). ...



--
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#1)'73 26' exPainted D. -- (#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
http://m000035.blogspot.com

[Sean Kidd]

This is on my to do list...been researching if I want interna pumps, external pumps, booster pump, stock....found this http://www.mikeschevy.com/servlet/the-1898/57-CHEVY-GAS-TANK/Detail

It is a filler neck check valve...could this prevent the constant equalization of the two tanks and allow the main/reserve tanks to be used as intended?


--
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quadra Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms,
Fluorescent Mineral Capital of the World, New Jersey

[Ken Burton]

Johnny Bridges wrote on Fri, 15 November 2013 12:17

> If you tie them together at the bottom, you lose the 'reserve' ability of the stock setup.  Which means if the guage goes Dixie on you - which they are wont to do - you still have some reserve when the coach runs out.
>  
> --johnny
>  

Actually it is worse that that. If you go up or down hill the gas will migrate to the front or rear tank accordingly like it does now when you are above 7 gallons. It will not take long on a low tank for all usable gas to migrate to the opposite tank.

I worked on a coach that had this mod and the connection tube also ran on to the Onan. Because the added connection is now the lowest thing on the coach it is exposed to road debris. The upfitter covered that connection tube with a piece of angle iron. It was not a GM upfitted coach.


--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[Ken Burton]

SeanKidd wrote on Sun, 17 November 2013 16:44
> This is on my to do list...been researching if I want internal pumps, external pumps, booster pump, stock....found this http://www.mikeschevy.com/servlet/the-1898/57-CHEVY-GAS-TANK/Detail

>
> It is a filler neck check valve...could this prevent the constant equalization of the two tanks and allow the main/reserve tanks to be used as intended?

I once looked at using one out of a 1998 Blazer. I never got it done. The hose size was the issue.

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[gene Fisher]

Actually it is worse that that. If you go up or down hill the gas will
> migrate to the front or rear tank accordingly like it does now when you are
> above 7 gallons. It will not take long on a low tank for all usable gas to
> migrate to the opposite tank.
>

actually that is the good news
cause
if you look here, you will see all the gas ends up (going down hill) in the
AUX tank on a oem gmc.

http://gmcmotorhome.info/tank.html

Because the added connection is now the lowest thing on the coach it is
> exposed to road debris.
>

the lowest part on my gmc is the macerator hose storage
and
for 20 years nothing has hit it yet

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/macerator-hose-storage/p525.html

The upfitter covered that connection tube with a piece of angle iron. It
> was not a GM upfitted coach.
>

> sounds good to me

JWID
gene

>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>

--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html

[gene barrow]

Tying the tanks together is another one of those "solutions" looking for a non existing problem.
If the OEM system is working properly and the pilot understands the operation, it works just fine.

If it ain't broke etc, etc. But it's your coach, time, and money.
--
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach

[gene Fisher]

> Tying the tanks together is another one of those "solutions" looking for a
> non existing problem.
> If the OEM system is working properly and the pilot understands the
> operation, it works just fine.
>
> If it ain't broke etc, etc.

yes, i agree
unless
- one or both senders donot work
- the tank selector is suspect ($80)/ hard to replace)
- tanks are being dropped (just because)
- wiring to the senders, selector, is bad
- only one suction line and sender line are needed
- vents are shared
- to keep going, no added complexities are needed
- this is KISS, not upgrade
-

> But it's your coach, time, and money.
> --
> Gene Barrow
> Lake Almanor, Ca.
> 1976 Palm Beach
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>

--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html

[Matt Colie]

Mr ERFisher wrote on Mon, 18 November 2013 07:38
> <snip>

> actually that is the good news cause
> if you look here, you will see all the gas ends up (going down hill) in the AUX tank on a oem gmc.
>
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/tank.html
>

> the lowest part on my gmc is the macerator hose storage
> and for 20 years nothing has hit it yet
>

> JWID
> gene

Gene,

You are indeed fortunate.
My transmission pan has taken two hits. One of them since I bought the coach and I don't even know when/where it happened.

I, for one, would like to have the means to keep the tanks truly separate. That way real fuel inventory management might be possible. But then, as trained as two kinds of pilot (air and water) some things just make sense to me.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Thomas Phipps]

Matt, your comment on hitting the trans pan brings to mind my only fear with the Aluminum replacements. A friend had an Opel Kadett (remember those) and it had an Aluminum oil pan. One winter, he hit a frozen chunk of ice on a road, and it shattered his oil pan. at 20 below, it is a real pain.
Tom, MS II
--
1975 GMC Avion, under forever re-construction
Vicksburg, MS. 3.7 miles from I-20

[Gene Dotson]

tphipps wrote on Mon, 18 November 2013 16:32

> Matt, your comment on hitting the trans pan brings to mind my only fear with the Aluminum replacements. A friend had an Opel Kadett (remember those) and it had an Aluminum oil pan. One winter, he hit a frozen chunk of ice on a road, and it shattered his oil pan. at 20 below, it is a real pain.
> Tom, MS II

Tom,

I have had my Rockwell aluminum oil pan for well over 10 years and have had no trouble with it.
--
Gene Dotson
74 Canyonlands
www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators

[Emery Stora]

Same here.

Emery Stora

[John Wright]

I have coaches since 1998 with the aluminum pan on the transmissions and never had an issue with cold and I have driven in some rotten weather with the coach when going to warmer climates for the winter.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan

[Ken Burton]

Mr ERFisher wrote on Mon, 18 November 2013 06:38

> Actually it is worse that that. If you go up or down hill the gas will
> > migrate to the front or rear tank accordingly like it does now when you are
> > above 7 gallons. It will not take long on a low tank for all usable gas to
> > migrate to the opposite tank.
> >
> actually that is the good news
> cause
> if you look here, you will see all the gas ends up (going down hill) in the
> AUX tank on a oem gmc.
>
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/tank.html
>
>
> Because the added connection is now the lowest thing on the coach it is
> > exposed to road debris.
> >
>
> the lowest part on my gmc is the macerator hose storage
> and
> for 20 years nothing has hit it yet

That is just what we need. Go down hill on the main tank and all of the fuel goes forward to he aux. Engine stops and no vacuum for brakes. If you plug them both together on the intake side to fuel pump the engine then the first one to get air will suck air into the fuel system.

Fuel management is everything and fuel needs to stay where you know exactly where it is. We only have two tanks but in flying we sometime have 4 or more. It is no fun trying to find where the remaining fuel is. I did it once on a down hill final approach and almost ended up in some trees before I found the tank with thee remaining fuel.

You will never forget an unexpected engine failure going up or down hill, in the air, on a mountain road, a driveway, or an 8 lane expressway.

On the damage comment, I was working on someone else's coach and happened to look up at a propane line. It was all beat up and almost flat due to flying gravel etc. He was lucky we caught it before it leaked. You do not need to hit anything. Normal crap and gravel on the road will do it. I'm talking about normal flying debris stirred up while traveling down the road not just hitting a piece if something laying there.

[Robin Hood]

I do NOT want to "suck air" on a long downhill or uphill, and kill my
engine.

How can this best be avoided? Put a check valve in the fill line, and make
sure that the tank selector works correctly and that the gauges are
accurate?

--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"

[Johnny Bridges]

It is best avoided by plumbing the tanks in the original manner.  Once the level falls below the inlets, you have two seperate tanks and a valve to choose.

 
--johnny
 

From: Robin Hood <lox...@gmail.com>
To: "gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dropping the fuel tanks and replacing rubber fuel lines on the Barn Queen

[gene Fisher]

run on the top 1/2 of the tanks


this is silly, the oem reserve system is shown here
http://gmcmotorhome.info/tank.html

this is the way it is, and "sucking air" is what it does
- when trying to use the last gallon in the two tanks
- while going up hill and down.

if you want to test the "one tank" concept
- leave the selector switch on one tank
- that is all we are talking about

if you want the "last" gallon, connect the drain plugs.
- is really no change
gene

--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html

[Emery Stora]

Unless your tanks are extremely low on fuel that will not happen. If you are concerned just learn to keep more fuel in your tanks when driving in the mountains.

Emery Stira

[James Hupy]

What Gene and Emery said I also agree with. Run with the tanks above half
full. Lot of good reasons to do so. Fuel starvation being one of the bigger
ones, along with cooler fuel reaching the intake. But, people being people,
if you run 'em on fumes, live with the results and don't whine about it.
(grin)
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403

[Matt Colie]

Mr ERFisher wrote on Tue, 19 November 2013 09:30

> run on the top 1/2 of the tanks

> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and

Gene,

To some of us this lacks charm.

We take out coach into Canada several times a year. We always tank up at the duty free gas station. Your top half plan would have us buying fuel we don't actually need at 5+$us/gal. That amounts to an extra 50$us per excursion.

I don't think I like that very much.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Bob de Kruyff]

""What Gene and Emery said I also agree with. Run with the tanks above half
full. Lot of good reasons to do so. Fuel starvation being one of the bigger
ones, along with cooler fuel reaching the intake. But, people being people,
if you run 'em on fumes, live with the results and don't whine about it.
(grin)
Jim Hupy
""

Once I realized how the system works (like about 20 years ago) I have never had an issue with the stock setup. I now drive most of my time in the mountains around here with grades around 7%. I routinely let the tanks get down to the 1/4 level around which time the light goes on, but I have had then substantially lower without any incidents. I'm trying to figure out what the anxiety is about.
--
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ

[Emery Stora]

Bob

I also have driven many times with steep grades with my tanks low and have never "sucked air".

Which is why I said "if it bothers you just drive with more fuel ".

I didn't provide detail of my experiences but I agree with you that it is nothing for him to worry about except running out of fuel and walking to town.

Emery Stora

[Ken Burton]

Matt Colie wrote on Tue, 19 November 2013 10:14

> Mr ERFisher wrote on Tue, 19 November 2013 09:30
> > run on the top 1/2 of the tanks
> > --
> > Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> > Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
>
> Gene,
>
> To some of us this lacks charm.
>
> We take out coach into Canada several times a year. We always tank up at the duty free gas station. Your top half plan would have us buying fuel we don't actually need at 5+$us/gal. That amounts to an extra 50$us per excursion.
>
> I don't think I like that very much.
>
> Matt

Where are you buying duty free gas? Going in to Canada or returning home? I have never seen this recently. Years ago before Canada started overtaxing fuel, we use to drive across the bridge to fill up. Gas was much cheaper there then.

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[Ken Burton]

Robin Hood wrote on Tue, 19 November 2013 06:52

> I do NOT want to "suck air" on a long downhill or uphill, and kill my
> engine.
>
> How can this best be avoided? Put a check valve in the fill line, and make
> sure that the tank selector works correctly and that the gauges are
> accurate?

Back to aviation. When the gas tanks are lower than the carb you never pull fuel for multiple tanks at the same time. If one tank goes dry you will suck air from it rather than from the one with fuel. If the tanks are above the engine like a high wing airplane this will not occur. You definitely are driving a low wing GMC.

The problem we are discussing here is what happens if you connect a tube to allow fuel to flow between the tanks when the levels are low (below 7 gallons each). You could start out at the top of a long grade with 5 gallons in the rear main tank and 7 in the front. By the time you get to the bottom some or most of that fuel in the rear tank can transfer unexpectedly to the front tank. You should get a low fuel light, BUT.... Does you light work and are you watching it? I would prefer to start at the top with 5 gallons in the main tank and arrive at the bottom with 4.5 gallons still in there.

It does not make any difference if the tanks contain are more than 1/4 full or full.

The opposite will occur going up hill.

In an aircraft we have a tank capacity and a usable tank capacity. These are usually a gallon or so different which means we can plan on using all but the last gallon in each tank.

The Landing check usually says "Fuel selector on fullest tank" not fuel on front or rear tank. This is because there is not normally dynamic fuel transfer between tanks. There is a provision on some aircraft to electrically pump fuel from one tank to another. I have never seen this with only two tanks installed.

[mr.er...@gmail.com]

Won't happen Almost all gas ends up in the front tank. See pix

FREE WIFI @ Mickey D

[Johnny Bridges]

o am I.  It's pretty flat where I go, but I often stretch it to the next pure gas outlet.  Haven't run out yet.  But I >have< put 47 gallons in  it once or twice.
 
--johnny

 

From: Bob de Kruyff <NEXT...@AOL.COM>
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Dropping the fuel tanks and replacing rubber fuel lines on the Barn Queen

[Matt Colie]

Ken Burton wrote on Tue, 19 November 2013 12:13

> Where are you buying duty free gas? Going in to Canada or returning home? I have never seen this recently. Years ago before Canada started overtaxing fuel, we use to drive across the bridge to fill up. Gas was much cheaper there then.

Ken,

On the way over the bridge, on the US end right near the Duty Free store. The price is usually in line with the best Detroit area prices and the only time I had my kit with me to check, it had no alcohol.

I sure isn't cheaper there now.....

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air)
Now with 4 working Rear Brakes
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Bob de Kruyff]

""Won't happen Almost all gas ends up in the front tank. See pix

FREE WIFI @ Mickey D
""

Those are good drawings BTW--much easier to picture how it works instead of trying to explain it.

--
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ

[Robin Hood]

I will probably need to do something special when I try to make my
transcontinental speed run. But that will be a whoooole other topic.

--
Robin Hood
Jackson, MS
2013 Subaru Outback "Top Flight"
1968 Pontiac Catalina "The Cheshire Cat"
1978 GMC Royale motorhome "Pinto Bean"
1977 GMC Palm Beach motorhome "Barn Queen"

[Ken Burton]

Johnny Bridges wrote on Tue, 19 November 2013 12:32

> o am I.  It's pretty flat where I go, but I often stretch it to the next pure gas outlet.  Haven't run out yet.  But I >have< put 47 gallons in  it once or twice.
>  
> --johnny

I went up trail Ridge road (Rocky Mountain National Park) one time during or just after a Western States rally in Estes Park. I left my motorcycle back at the campground and drained both fresh and black tanks. I also did not fill the gas tanks because I want to beas light as possible. Going up to the 12,200 foot top I used more gasoline than I expected and at the top the main tank read a little under 1/4 and the aux read 1/4.

The climb and descent is between 8,000 and 12,000 feet. I knew I would use very little gas going back down so I left the tank selector on main and headed down. I needed the engine to stay running so I had power steering, engine braking, and vacuum for brakes. I was prepared to switch tanks if the low fuel light came on. It never did. I did it this way because I wanted to know if the main ran out that I still had at least 7 gallons (or more) in the reserve.

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana