Re: [GMCnet] Flex Plate

[Jon Roche via Gmclist]

Hmmm. I bought one with my engine from s&j. ? Box is in my storage unit.

From my invoice:


Part-PIO-FRA-102
Description: FLEXPLATE
Manufacturer: Pioneer


--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

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[Charles Boyd via Gmclist]

Sir, Have you tried rotating the flexplate? IIRC it will only fit in one position as 1 hole is a little off. I do have a used one if you can't find
one closer than Tennessee.




Husker92592 wrote on Sun, 22 March 2020 17:37
> GMC'Ers
> so I have ordered tWO flexplates so far ATP Z116 AND PIONEER FRA 102, I also tried a buick just because and nothing is matching up to the bolt
> patterns on the crank. Does anyone have an idea where to get one? Is there a used one out there? its quite difficult to break in an engine if you
> cant start it?
>
> thanks
> Grant


--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee

[Charles Boyd via Gmclist]

Sir, just a note.. the welded on weight on the flywheel goes toward the torque converter. If one hole is off, rotate to next hole and so on till all
6 line up. It will only go 1 way as the engine is externally balanced. I am surprised the engine builder did not include the flexplate as it is
needed to balance the engine, unless he did not balance lt?






Husker92592 wrote on Mon, 23 March 2020 10:55
> Mr. Boyd,
> Thanks. I have one more heading to me in the mail. I will let you know, thansk

[Matt Colie via Gmclist]

Husker92592 wrote on Mon, 23 March 2020 10:52
> Yes that was the frustrating part, I rotated to where all lined up except 1. 5 out of 6 is not a bad thing but i really dont want to alter the
> holes on the plate. maybe I have bad holes on the plate?

Grant,

Did you try turning the plate over? Maybe you are trying it the wrong way.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Charles Boyd via Gmclist]

Sir, I can't tell anything from your pics. Back up a little so the whole flexplate can be seen. Mark 1 hole with paint spot and take 6 pictures of
the flexplate in the 6 possible combinations with the weight showing.
Where did the engine come from? Was it a running engine or assembled from floor parts?
Do you have the flexplate that came with engine?
Have you checked with the engine builder? If he is clueless you better check to see if it has the correct oil galley plugs with holes to spray oil on
timing chain and distributor gear.
What heads are on engine? Are rocker attachment bolts 5/16 or 3/8?
Here are some specs.. https://oldsjunction.classicoldsmobile.com/oldsfaq/ofblk.htm#BB%201965%20-%201976%20Identifying%20a%20Big%20Block%20Block
Table of contents at bottom of page.

Early 68 is when Olds changed flexplate mounting holes but I have never heard of a true 455 with early bolt pattern. Was the engine originally red?
Did it have a 2 bbl or 4 bbl carb?
All flexplate pre 68 have 1 mounting hole offset 5* ccw and 68 and later 1 hole is offset 5* cw.

You may have to remove oil pan and work off the crank numbers.
https://oldsjunction.classicoldsmobile.com/oldsfaq/ofcrk.htm#Cranks



Husker92592 wrote on Wed, 25 March 2020 23:13
> Mr. Boyd,
> Yes the weight goes out towards the torque converter. on a post recently i added some pictures so everyone can see. it is awfully frustrating as I
> cant dyno my engine and get it installed with out a flex plate.
> any ideas?
>
> Thanks
> Grant

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee

[Charles Boyd via Gmclist]

Sir, the 68 cast in the rear of the block is the Julian date (1-365) of the year the block was cast. Since yours is Fa it is 72-76 nothing strange
there. It looks like if you were to rotate the flywheel about 5* ccw on the crank then 5 bolts would line up and one would be off center 5* cw which
it should be and you should have the correct flywheel according to the #'s.. I still think you just need to rotate the flywheel on the crank till all
6 bolt holes line up. Just keep turning it to a new hole and somewhere all 6 will line up. Make sure the welded weight is facing outside toward /
against the torque converter.
On the date built it is on some cars stamped with VIN number on oil fill spout then painted over. I have not found any on motorhome build engines as
the oil fill tube end is motorhome only. Has a fill hose instead of spin on fill cap. If you do find a number the first # is the year, should be
2-6.


Husker92592 wrote on Thu, 26 March 2020 13:54
> Not sure on any of these as my engine builder is supposed to be a BOAT guy. I picked up the engine from a local GMC'er and quickly took it to get
> built. So relaying on my builder probably is not a good idea. there was not and origianal flex plate so this is where I am at. I suppose it is time
> to remove the engine pan again and do some research.
>
> 396021 fa is the casting number next to the oil filler tube, according to the "oldsmobile FAQ site The block is "common" but the back casting is a
> 1968 not a 72 on, obviously there is something wrong.
>
> ID/ Casting
> Code Year(s) CID Number Notes
> A '65 425 381917?? 1st year, big cars.
> 386525
> B '65 400 389298 442 only, one year only.
> D '66 - '67 425 389244 Big-car engine. Toro is different internally.
> E '66 - '67 400 390925 442 engine [VERY rare].
> F '68 - '70 455 396021 Common big block. Stick type F (sans serif).
> F '70 - '72 455 396021 Common big block. Serif type F. Two vertical
> and a base serif.
> Fa '72 - '76 455 396021 Very common big block. Marine also (L VIN derivative).
> G '68 - '69 400 396026 442/Vista/etc. engine.
> L '76 455 231788 Motorhome, marine and irrigation. GM made motorhomes
> from '73-8, maybe in all? Casting number appears
> as "231 [tiny 'L'] 788" on the block.
>
>
> so much for a solid rebuild. seems I need to find a new crank. and who knows what else. I will do some research and be in touch. thanks
>
> I could have put a diesel in my coach by now.\
>
>
> New photos:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/engine/p67122-engine-castings.html
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/engine/p67123-engine-castings.html
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/engine/p67121-engine-castings.html
>
>
> block casting under heads: 33M730673
>
> 3= oldsmobile
> 3= 1973
> M = Lansing
> 730673= vin of car block comes from
>
> Crank?

[Grant Schaffer via Gmclist]

So, here is what I found on the crank, I had to remove the pan and the oil as well as the crank as it needed to get balanced with the late model off
hole location flexplate. reason for some reason in my 1972 455 block there is installed a 1968 -1969 odd ball nodular iron crankshaft that was only
made for two years. Isn't that just my luck. so odd ball crack in a 1972 455 block, and now balanced with a flex plate with two hole drilled oversized
as the only flex plate available for this crank is a sfi racing flexplate that is $350.00


1" wide.
397363 455 '68 - '70 Nodular iron. 'N' on front weight

so word to the wise not everything is what is should be and yes for some reason there are some engines out there that have mis matched parts.
so another $400.00 added to the engine build as it has to balance between the flexplate crank and balancer. $10,000 and climbing and no end to the
bleeding. one of these days ill be able to drive my coach again.
--
1974 GMC Sequoia 26'

[Matt Colie via Gmclist]

Husker92592 wrote on Sat, 02 May 2020 03:00

> So, here is what I found on the crank, I had to remove the pan and the oil as well as the crank as it needed to get balanced with the late model
> off hole location flexplate. reason for some reason in my 1972 455 block there is installed a 1968 -1969 odd ball nodular iron crankshaft that was
> only made for two years. Isn't that just my luck. so odd ball crack in a 1972 455 block, and now balanced with a flex plate with two hole drilled
> oversized as the only flex plate available for this crank is a sfi racing flexplate that is $350.00
>
> 1" wide.
> 397363 455 '68 - '70 Nodular iron. 'N' on front weight
>
> so word to the wise not everything is what is should be and yes for some reason there are some engines out there that have mis matched parts.
> so another $400.00 added to the engine build as it has to balance between the flexplate crank and balancer. $10,000 and climbing and no end to the
> bleeding. one of these days ill be able to drive my coach again.

An issue like this in my early engine building is why I always keep a damper/crank/flywheel as a set.

There is a local guy that took an engine from me for evaluation. He brought it back and I gave him back his deposit, then I noticed that the
flexplate was missing. He has refused to return that or the lube oil pump. He is on my Shix list.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

Matt, is this asshole a GMC Person or just a local turd?

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[Matt Colie via Gmclist]

Johnny Bridges wrote on Sat, 02 May 2020 11:27

> Matt, is this asshole a GMC Person or just a local turd?
>
> --johnny

Just a local guy. If I heard he was looking for a coach, I would do my best to discourage him.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

Well, whyncha go get your stuff back?

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[Matt Colie via Gmclist]

Johnny Bridges wrote on Sat, 02 May 2020 19:00

> Well, whyncha go get your stuff back?
>
> --johnny

Because I don't know where he actually lives and that flex plate was on a bad cast crank and I have more important things to do.
But a good ask.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Grant Schaffer via Gmclist]

I certainly hope you are not talking about me! Quite frankly I would have no use for a crank and a flexplate by them selves as our coaches are too
valuable and BTW i have ownerd my coach for 7 years now so certainly wouldnt be part of your "asshole" discussion.

Also, after taking the pan off due to my builder having to rebalance the crank assembly there are some 455's out there that have 68 and 69 cranks
installed which has a different flexplate.

--
1974 GMC Sequoia 26'

[Dave King via Gmclist]

A question to Matt C and the other engine GURUs. With a V8 engines, I® understand that the
weights of the rods and pistons are part of the balancing equation. Does this mean that
An engine that might not have been balanced or parts of the assembly that goes together
In the to be balanced assembly are missing that the whole process of weighing all the rods, piston pins, pistons, bearings must all be done completely
from scratch again?
--
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

[Hal StClair via Gmclist]

Not necessarily, If you need to replace a component, flex plate, balancer they can be spun separately, a piston or rod can be balanced but you'll have
to know the weights so the motor will need to be disassembled to check unless someone made and kept all the weights which I don't think I've ever
witnessed. Kind of an unusual circumstance to replace an individual internal piece though.
Just my thoughts, Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1975 Eleganza II, 101230,

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,

Rio Rancho, NM

[James Hupy via Gmclist]

Hmmmm? Engine Balancing. Inline 4 cyl are one thing, V-4 another. Inline
6, quite another. V-6 dang near impossible. Straight 8, different deal as
well. V-8, which we are dealing with, is kinda like 2ea 4 cylinders hooked
onto the same crank.
Some basic rules do apply across the board. Pistons need to be the
same weight, as do upper ends of the rods, lower ends of the rods. Rings,
pins, crankshaft counterweights, all reciprocating mass, all rotating mass,
etc. You can balance for static (stationary) mass, reciprocating mass, and
on and on. Yes, one piston can be replaced, with an exact duplicate of what
is replaced. Flywheels can only be mounted a certain way, same with front
compensating pulleys. Too technical to go into specifics here. Lots of info
out there on the internet. Enough to keep you reading for weeks. Confused
yet? Just wait until everyone jumps in here.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon