EBL Tips- Idle Adjustments to Consider
Paul Bartz
George:
In the subject on Google docs EBL tips, not trying to criticize, I feel there needs to be some clarification because I can't follow what you say.
As I see it, where it says:
· "The Howell system never did anything with the Park\/Neutral switching.", begs the question "what should it do"???
· "Simplified the installation and I don't think that switch would make much difference ." begs the question "what was done to simplify the installation"???
· "1. I watched where my engine wanted to idle and found it moved around within about 4 cells." begs the question "watched it where and in what 4 cells"???
Just how my mind reads it
Paul Bartz
Kalamazoo MI
78 Royale Rear Twins
George Beckman
EBL Tips- Idle Adjustments to Consider
This tip provides some suggestions for helping smooth out the idle. You should do the IAC Initial Calibration prior to these adjustments found on this page: <http://groups.google.com/group/gmcmh-efi/web/ebl-tips---initial-iac-calibration>.
The What’s Up Display (WUD) in the EBL gives us the ability to watch what is happening as related to the engine at all times. Tuner pro has settings that relate to how the computer reacts to the information gathered by the sensors.
The computer even has the ability to tell us what gear the transmission is in. It has the ability to make corrections if the transmission is in Drive or Neutral/Park. The Howell wiring harness did not provide wires for these switches. This simplified the installation and I don't think that switch would make much difference. I think it always assumes it is in gear (I'm guessing here). So, working with these parameters may not have too much affect. The parameters sets the idle speed based on coolant temperature. They are IAC - Idle Speed: Drive and IAC - Idle Speed: Park/Neut found in Tables/Functions of TunerPro. TunerPro allows us to make changes.
I did the following which seemed to help my idle.
- I watched where my engine wanted to idle and found it moved around within about 4 cells when watching the VE Tables using the WUD.
- I recorded where my engine wanted to idle (RPM and MAP) using the WUD.
- In the VE table, I tweaked those cells to be the same fuel percentage.
- I then went to the SA table in Tuner Pro and made those corresponding cells the same Spark Advance. The SA I used was what I had set in the SA - Idle State SA (I think mine was at 23 degrees. SA - Idle State SA (located in Constants/Scalars) is controlled by Option Word 2 - Bit 1 - IdlSa. That option bit was already set in my EBL by default.
Doing this seemed to settle my idle down quite a bit.
Another thing that some have done is to force it to idle in Open Loop. That way you can command an AFR. Option Word 1 - Bit - OpIdl controls whether you are in Open Loop during idle. You can then go to Open Loop - AFR vs RPM & VAC found in Tables/Functions and set the desired AFR for the cells that your engine wants to idle in. Sometimes a little richer AFR will help the idle.
Paul Bartz
George:
Much better, now we’re getting something I can follow.
I have the following questions or comments:
Word(s) Sentence Paragraph Remark
· corrections 2nd 3rd spell out what they are inside parentheses after the word
· switches 3rd “ ditto (as above)
· I 4th “ if we’re going to use personal pronouns, then we need to mention the individuals name and date, somewhere in the document, as the author, for future questions, update authority, and posterity sake
· it 5th “ spell out what does this, “the computer”, for example
· these parameters 6th “ not sure what this means – preceding or following ones???
· Tables item 1 4th is this plural or singular, because in item 3 it is singular???
I’m recommending the following wording (see if I got it right) to clarify the procedure even further (new words show up as red colored and deleted words have a strike through), as follows:
EBL Tips- Idle Adjustments to Consider
This tip provides some suggestions for helping smooth out the engine idle. You should do the IAC Initial Calibration prior to these adjustments found on this page: <http://groups.google.com/group/gmcmh-efi/web/ebl-tips---initial-iac-calibration> prior to these attempting the below adjustments.
The What’s Up Display (WUD) in the EBL Flash system gives us the ability to watch what is happening as related to the engine operation at all times. Tuner pro The TunerPro, tuning software we use to add, change, or delete the engine control module (ECM or so called “computer”) memory, has settings that relate to dictate how the computer reacts to the information gathered by the various EFI system sensors.
The computer even has the ability to tell us what gear the transmission is in. It has the ability to make corrections if the transmission is in Drive or Neutral/Park. However, tThe Howell wiring harness did does not provide wires for these the switches. This simplified the installation and I don't think that switch would make much difference. I think it always assumes it is in gear (I'm guessing here). So, working with these parameters may not have too much affect. The following parameters sets set the idle speed based on coolant temperature. They are IAC - Idle Speed: Drive and IAC - Idle Speed: Park/Neut found in the Tables/Functions section of TunerPro. TunerPro allows us to make changes.
I did the following which seemed to help my idle. idle:
- Using the WUD
Iwatched where my engine wanted to idle and found it moved around within about 4 cells when watching the VE Tablesusing the WUD. IRrecorded the RPM and MAP values from the VE table, where my engine wanted to idle(RPM and MAP)using the WUD.- In the TunerPro VE table,
Itweaked those cells to be the same fuel percentage. ITthen went to the TunerPro SA table inTuner Proand madethosethe corresponding cells have the same sSpark aAdvance (SA). The SA I used was whatI hadwas set inthemy SA - Idle State SA table (I think mine was at 23 degrees). The SA - Idle State SA table (located in TunerPro Constants/Scalars) is controlled by Option Word 2 - Bit 1 - IdlSa. That option bit was already set in my EBL memory by default.
Doing this seemed to settle my idle down quite a bit.
Another thing that some have done is to force it to idle in Open Loop. That way you can command an AFR. Option Word 1 - Bit - OpIdl controls whether you are in Open Loop during idle. You can then go to Open Loop - AFR vs RPM & VAC found in Tables/Functions and set the desired AFR for the cells that your engine wants to idle in. Sometimes a little richer AFR will help the idle.
Perhaps others may have comments???
Paul
Gordon
Hi Paul'
The TunerPro software is used to make changes and write them to the EBL (Which provides the memory function). These settings form the baseline from which the ECM makes changes based on the information gathered by the sensors.
I find what you have written is too wordy and does not make sense to me? The TunerPro software does not dictate how the computer reacts. The table written to the EBL forms a baseline for the operation of the EFI system. The EBL then makes changes to the AFR (air fuel ratio) on the fly, based on the information it gathers from the sensors.
I hope this is correct?
Gordon
Jay Rabe
Gordon
Gordon
On 1/27/2011 6:06 PM, Jay Rabe wrote:
This has been a great exchange. Thanks to Paul for jumping in and trying to clarify what he found confusing or at least a little vague. It speaks totally to my ongoing efforts to write an "Idiot's Guide." And yes, it can seem wordy to put enough detail into the description that even an idiot = newbie can understand it, but I'm kind of with Paul on this. OTOH, too wordy is not the same as "not making sense." "Too wordy" should be avoided if possible, but "not making sense" absolutely Must be avoided.
Seems like a key thing that needs to be decided here is, what is the audience for these documents? These tips and technique files have been collected so they can be referenced and so they don't get lost - a shared memory of countless hours of trial and error results. Invaluable. But if you already have to be sort of an expert to understand them, then the clueless newbies are left fumbling and well, still clueless. Maybe it's too tedious for the more experienced guys to put that much detail into it. Don't know. I'm suggesting it's a decision that ought to be thought about.
Anyway, from what I understand about Gordon's clarification, and mind you, I AM a newbie=idiot, here's what it sounds like:�
The EBL contains blocks of memory, arranged in tables (what are the names of the tables?). The .bin file is the data file that is loaded into the tables to provide the "programming." The microprocessor in the EBL reads the tables and data from the sensors that are connected to it, and calculates (according to preset and unchangeable algorithms) what the spark advance and AFR (and what other outputs?) will be to control the engine. The tables can be modified for specific engines and/or specific performance or operating conditions. The TunerPro software reads the EBL memory tables, then allows you to edit them, then the new tables can be loaded (burned or flashed) back into the EBL memory.
How's that sound? Even more wordy, I know...
J
76 PB
Portland, OR
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:30:27 -0800
From: wiz...@telus.net
To: gmcm...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GMCMH-EFI] EBL Tips- Idle Adjustments to Consider
Hi Paul'
The TunerPro software is used to make changes and write them to the EBL (Which provides the memory function).� These settings form the baseline from which the ECM makes changes based on the information gathered by the sensors.�
I find what you have written is too wordy and does not make sense to me?� The TunerPro software does not dictate how the computer reacts.� The table written to the EBL forms a baseline for the operation of the EFI system.� The EBL then makes changes to the AFR (air fuel ratio) on the fly, based on the information it gathers from the sensors.�
I hope this is correct?
Gordon
On 1/27/2011 3:26 PM, Paul Bartz wrote:
The TunerPro, tuning software we use to add, change, or delete the engine control module (ECM or so called �computer�) memory, has settings thatrelate todictate how the computer reacts to the information gathered by the various EFI system sensors.
George Beckman
The What’s Up Display (WUD) in the EBL Flash System gives us the ability to watch what is happening to the engine at all times. TunerPro, tuning software we use to add, change, or delete the engine control module (ECM or so called “computer”) memory, has settings that dictate to how the computer reacts to the information gathered by the various EFI system sensors.
The computer has the ability to tell us what gear the transmission is in. It has the ability to make corrections (change idle speed, etc.) if the transmission is in Drive or Neutral/Park. However, the Howell wiring harness does not provide wires for this switch (located at the bottom of the steering column at the floorboard). This simplified the installation and I don't think that switch would make much difference. I think the ECM always assumes it is in gear (I'm guessing here). So, working with parameters related to the gearshift may not have too much affect. The following parameters set the idle speed based on coolant temperature. The parameters are IAC - Idle Speed: Drive and IAC - Idle Speed: Park/Neut found in the Tables/Functions of TunerPro. TunerPro allows us to make changes.
I did the following which seemed to help my idle.
- Using the WUD I watched where my engine wanted to idle and found it moved around within about 4 cells when viewing the VE Tables.
- I recorded the VE percentages in these four cells as my engine idled.
- Using TunerPro I went to the main VE table (located in Tables/Functions) and I tweaked those four cells to be the same fuel percentage.
- I then went to the SA table in Tuner Pro (also found in Tables/Functions) and made the corresponding cells the same degrees of Spark Advance. The SA I used was what I had set in the SA - Idle State SA (I think mine was at 23 degrees. SA - Idle State SA (located in Constants/Scalars) is controlled by Option Word 2 - Bit 1 - IdlSa. That option bit was already set in my EBL memory by default.
Doing this seemed to settle my idle down quite a bit.
Another thing that some have done is to force it to idle in Open Loop. That way you can command an AFR. Option Word 1 - Bit - OpIdl controls whether you are in Open Loop during idle. You can then go to Open Loop - AFR vs RPM & VAC found in Tables/Functions and set the desired AFR for the cells that your engine wants to idle in. Sometimes a little richer AFR will help the idle.
Much better, now we’re getting something I can follow.
Paul Bartz
Gordon:
As I asked in my earlier post, “Perhaps others may have comments???”, I’m glad to see discussion and I wish others would also participate to get their sense. You and I are just expressing our thoughts. I personally don’t have any fault with your below premise.
If we listen to what J is saying, for those who are experienced tuning users, some of the details are a bit much. However, I know our user spectrum varies from wanabie to advanced. Therefore in writing these procedures, details are going to be required that may seem unnecessary to some. After all, J speaks of writing an “Idiots Guide”.
I know of several individuals that are “sitting on the fence” with EBL; they are slightly scared of it because they THINK they are not very knowledgeable about it and some don’t have any “hands on experience” with EFI. They usually say they don’t understand it. My feeling is that it is their way of telling me they are mystified about the details.
I think it’s admirable that there are those who want to learn about EFI, EBL, etc., by associating themselves with this group. Denying them the necessary details does not help and why shortchange them.
A case in point, and I should have written this separately earlier, Ken Henderson spent over an hour of his time last Saturday evening giving a TunerPro 101 class to a couple of us who had never used it previously. Think that wasn’t appreciated and a HUGE help to rapidly understand its navigating, well guess again.
We each react to words in a different way and some have a better imagination than the next person, so logic dictates adequate development.
I believe the idea for “procedures” is for EVERYONE (wannabie to advanced) to be on the same “sheet of music”.
Having said all of the forgoing, and I originally didn’t plan to mention it, my background for over 30 years, as a multi-disciplined engineer, was not only writing engineered facility construction specifications, operations manuals, and procedures, but also technical reviewing others like documents. And I don’t say that as any ultimate authority on how to write, because as I’m sure you know, there is always more than one way to “skin the cat”.
Paul Bartz
Kalamazoo MI
78 Royale Rear Twins
From: gmcm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gmcm...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gordon
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 9:23 PM
To: gmcm...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GMCMH-EFI] EBL Tips- Idle Adjustments to Consider
One of the great concerns I have and have voiced before is that the EBL is a "plug-n-play" device. Upload a .bin matching your engine and drive off into the sunset. Or make a science project out of it and scare most of the guys reading this forum away. There is a happy medium and for sure the more you learn the better you are equipped to fix it and get home.
Gordon
On 1/27/2011 6:06 PM, Jay Rabe wrote:
This has been a great exchange. Thanks to Paul for jumping in and trying to clarify what he found confusing or at least a little vague. It speaks totally to my ongoing efforts to write an "Idiot's Guide." And yes, it can seem wordy to put enough detail into the description that even an idiot = newbie can understand it, but I'm kind of with Paul on this. OTOH, too wordy is not the same as "not making sense." "Too wordy" should be avoided if possible, but "not making sense" absolutely Must be avoided.
Seems like a key thing that needs to be decided here is, what is the audience for these documents? These tips and technique files have been collected so they can be referenced and so they don't get lost - a shared memory of countless hours of trial and error results. Invaluable. But if you already have to be sort of an expert to understand them, then the clueless newbies are left fumbling and well, still clueless. Maybe it's too tedious for the more experienced guys to put that much detail into it. Don't know. I'm suggesting it's a decision that ought to be thought about.
Anyway, from what I understand about Gordon's clarification, and mind you, I AM a newbie=idiot, here's what it sounds like:
The EBL contains blocks of memory, arranged in tables (what are the names of the tables?). The .bin file is the data file that is loaded into the tables to provide the "programming." The microprocessor in the EBL reads the tables and data from the sensors that are connected to it, and calculates (according to preset and unchangeable algorithms) what the spark advance and AFR (and what other outputs?) will be to control the engine. The tables can be modified for specific engines and/or specific performance or operating conditions. The TunerPro software reads the EBL memory tables, then allows you to edit them, then the new tables can be loaded (burned or flashed) back into the EBL memory.
How's that sound? Even more wordy, I know...
J
76 PB
Portland, OR
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:30:27 -0800
From: wiz...@telus.net
To: gmcm...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GMCMH-EFI] EBL Tips- Idle Adjustments to Consider
Hi Paul'
The TunerPro software is used to make changes and write them to the EBL (Which provides the memory function). These settings form the baseline from which the ECM makes changes based on the information gathered by the sensors.
I find what you have written is too wordy and does not make sense to me? The TunerPro software does not dictate how the computer reacts. The table written to the EBL forms a baseline for the operation of the EFI system. The EBL then makes changes to the AFR (air fuel ratio) on the fly, based on the information it gathers from the sensors.
I hope this is correct?
Gordon
On 1/27/2011 3:26 PM, Paul Bartz wrote:
The TunerPro, tuning software we use to add, change, or delete the engine control module (ECM or so called “computer”) memory, has settings that relate to dictate how the computer reacts to the information gathered by the various EFI system sensors.
George Beckman
This has been a great exchange. Thanks to Paul for jumping in and trying to clarify what he found confusing or at least a little vague. It speaks totally to my ongoing efforts to write an "Idiot's Guide.