Good News, Bad News

[DEP/Dodo]

Hi, Knowledgeable Ones--

I need your help again.  The good news is I did it!  I have joined the 21st century and just purchased a smartphone!  The bad news is I have joined the 21st century and just purchased a smartphone!  I was prepared to have a lot to learn because I am the kind of person who actually reads manuals for various purchases to learn what the product can do beyond just the basic things.  So what's the problem?  At the store, when the salesperson was setting up the phone, I told her I use Gmail and am set up for 2SV on my Google account.  She indicated she knew what that was.  She placed an icon for Gmail on the phone, and it works although things looks different than they do on a computer.  However, when it came to logging into the account, I couldn't get my password to be recognized!  I tried repeatedly and, in frustration, I told her my password so she could try.  I know that's a big no-no, but I was desperate and felt I had no other choice.  She also had trouble and then, suddenly, had success and applied a verif. code.  I don't know why this difficulty occurrred, but because of it she did something so that I didn't have to log into the account again.  That is, I can use Gmail, although I never sign in.  But I want the protection of 2SV, and as you regular Knowledgeable Ones know, I went through h--- with that and continue to be grateful for all your help.

I have Googled for assistance and got to https://support.google.com/accounts/troubleshooter/2402620?hl=en#ts=2402624,2461780

but am afraid to go further.  I don't know what an App Password is, how it works, or if that's what is actually needed.  I don't want to experiment with it and possibly cause more problems.  Would it have to be used with the new phone and my other computers ?  Is it in addition to or instead of my Google password?

I don't know if this is relevant, but for now at least, I want to use the new phone for calling (of course!), Gmail, using the I'net, and texting.  

I will wait to hear back from you and request that you respond in the most basic terms possible.  Also, because of a change in my work schedule, I may not be able to proceed with your advice until the weekend.

Thank you in advance for your assistance!

  

~Diane

[Kenneth Ayers]

Diane,

You already have 2SV protection.  That protection isn't something that needs to be applied to a new device.  It is applied to your account in general and so it is already in effect for all login attempts from any computer or device anywhere. 

If you're now able to login to your Gmail on your phone then there's nothing further that you need to do for that device. Not having to login to your account each time you want to check your email on a mobile device is standard practice for logging in on mobile devices.  If you're worried about someone accessing your account via your phone then setup a phone lock.  

I'd be curious though about what what the person who helped you with your new phone did to get you logged in. You should have needed to setup an app/device specific password for your new phone in your Google account security settings before you could even login on the phone.  You might want to go to your account security page from a computer and verify that 2SV is still enabled and see if an app/device specific password has been setup for that device.  

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Gmail-Users" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to gmail-users...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to gmail...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gmail-users.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Regards,

Kenneth

[Jeff Grossman]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:45 AM, Kenneth Ayers <justk...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'd be curious though about what what the person who helped you with your new phone did to get you logged in. You should have needed to setup an app/device specific password for your new phone in your Google account security settings before you could even login on the phone.  You might want to go to your account security page from a computer and verify that 2SV is still enabled and see if an app/device specific password has been setup for that device.  

Ken,

Are you sure about that?  I am pretty sure almost any new phone will use OAuth2 to connect to Google which does not require an app/device specific password.  It brings up a normal Google login screen and then will ask for a verification code if you have 2SV setup.  Once that is done it should not ask for a login again unless you remove the account from the device.  At least that is how things have been working with me lately.

Jeff

[Kenneth Ayers]

Jeff,

In the past I've had to enter the app specific passwords to connect Google accounts that are protected by 2SV on Android phones and tablets, iPhones, and iPods.  Yet generating an app specific password didn't work when I got a new Nexus 6 recently and tried to connect to my 2SV protected account.  I couldn't figure out why that was the case. I ended up turning off 2SV in order to connect my account to my new phone.  Some time later I enabled 2SV again and, although I can't recall what exactly I had to do next, I see that I have generated an app specific password for that phone so I guess I must have needed to generate it to re-enable logging in on the phone.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Gmail-Users" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to gmail-users...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to gmail...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gmail-users.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Regards,

Kenneth

[Jeff Grossman]

Kenneth,

That is very interesting.  I haven't had an Android phone in a little while.  But, I know with the latest version of iOS you do not need to create an app/device specific password for it.  Seems strange that you would not need to with iOS but you would with Android.

Jeff

[Diane]

Yikes, I generated my original post from Gmail and wondered why I hadn't heard back from anyone.  Had I begun here at the group's site, I would have had email updates sent to me.  I hope I am now effecting that via this reply with the updates box checked.  I will soon find out.

[Diane]

That's what I was trying to explain, Kenneth.  I know 2SV has been applied to my Google account (not to any specific computer or device) and also just confirmed it is in effect.  But I don't log in to Gmail on the phone.  I simply click on its icon.  It's as if I'm signed in as happens on my computers unless I sign out.  To repeat from my original post, at the store, the salesperson and I both had difficulty in having my password recognized.  It was repeatedly rejected and suddenly worked once at which point I provided her a code from the printouts I had made.  She made some comment that to avoid that trouble again she was going to do [something].  So now I access Gmail via its icon.  My expectation was that I would at least have to input my password because of 2SV if I opted to "trust" the computer and not require a verif. code.

I don't understand how app passwords work, but I was looking into that on my own.  That's when I decided to write to this group.  You have suggested I "see if an app/device specific password has been setup for that device."  If the salesperson did this, she didn't tell me.  How do I check to see if such a password has been set up?

~Diane  

[Diane]

Within my original post I included a URL in which was mentioned this app password topic.  It also said:  "If you’ve turned on 2-Step Verification and are trying to sign in to your Google Account through a device, mobile app or desktop app, you’ll need to enter an App Password."  That's what got me thinking about this app password thing.  Somewhere I read that Androids and such will have trouble recognizing a Google account password or something to that effect and that an app password would be necessary.  Again, at that point is when I contacted Gmail Unsers.

[Diane]

On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 8:46:38 AM UTC-7, justkenneth wrote:

I'd be curious though about what what the person who helped you with your new phone did to get you logged in.

As I wrote, after many attempts at using my password and having it rejected, it suddenly worked and she input a verif. code. 

[DEP/Dodo]

I meant trust the new phone (not computer).

[Diane]

Jeff, why aren't your comments being delivered to me at Gmail?

~D.

[DEP/Dodo]

​On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 8:46:38 AM UTC-7, justkenneth wrote:

If you're now able to login to your Gmail on your phone then there's nothing further that you need to do for that device. Not having to login to your account each time you want to check your email on a mobile device is standard practice for logging in on mobile devices.  If you're worried about someone accessing your account via your phone then setup a phone lock.

​If that is as protective of my Google account as 2SV, then that certainly would be the easiest solution--after I learn how to set up a phone lock.  Is that the same as screen lock?  Even better is if no one can get into the phone!  What does an app password do?  In short, what is the easiest and most effective protection?  What do you recommend?

[Kenneth Ayers]

Diane,

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:36 AM, Diane <depf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yikes, I generated my original post from Gmail and wondered why I hadn't heard back from anyone.  Had I begun here at the group's site, I would have had email updates sent to me.  

I have a suggestion.  Why not go to your membership settings for this group and change the email delivery preference to "notify me for every new message" option.  If you did that, you could post questions to this group via Gmail, reply to posts and comments submitted to this group via Gmail, and read all posts for this group within Gmail.  In short, you could discuss Gmail with your fellow Gmail users by using Gmail alone and never have to visit the group's webpage again.

--

Regards,

Kenneth

[Kenneth Ayers]

Diane,

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:52 AM, Diane <depf...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's what I was trying to explain, Kenneth.  I know 2SV has been applied to my Google account (not to any specific computer or device) and also just confirmed it is in effect.  But I don't log in to Gmail on the phone.  I simply click on its icon.

Logging into an account on your mobile device is different than logging into an account via a computer. Rather than going to a browser on your phone and logging in, you launch an app which establishes a device connection to your account.  Typically it's a one-time login.  If you look around in the Gmail app, you'll notice there isn't a logout option anywhere.

So, yes, you'll stay logged into your Gmail account unless you go to your device settings and entirely remove the account from your phone.  The best protection for your Gmail account on your phone is to keep your phone with you and to setup a phone screen lock.

--

Regards,

Kenneth

[Jeff Grossman]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 5:03 AM, Diane <depf...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 8:46:38 AM UTC-7, justkenneth wrote:

I'd be curious though about what what the person who helped you with your new phone did to get you logged in.

As I wrote, after many attempts at using my password and having it rejected, it suddenly worked and she input a verif. code. 

It could be you were putting in the wrong password.  Those small keyboards on phones can be hard to use and hit the wrong keys a lot.  I do it all the time.

Jeff

[Jeff Grossman]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:36 AM, Diane <depf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yikes, I generated my original post from Gmail and wondered why I hadn't heard back from anyone.  Had I begun here at the group's site, I would have had email updates sent to me.  I hope I am now effecting that via this reply with the updates box checked.  I will soon find out.

Diane,

You can set it up to receive all messages posted to Gmail-Users via your e-mail.  That is the way I have it setup.  But, if you don't want to receive each message that is posted to the group, then yes you would either need to create the original message via the Groups web interface and select the e-mail updates option, or after write the e-mail in Gmail, go into the Groups interface and select that option for the message/thread.

Jeff

[Jeff Grossman]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 5:08 AM, DEP/Dodo <depf...@gmail.com> wrote:

I meant trust the new phone (not computer).

 My expectation was that I would at least have to input my password because of 2SV if I opted to "trust" the computer and not require a verif. code.

It doesn't work that way with Gmail on the phone.  You never have to put in your password again once you do it.  If you want to make it so nobody can get into Gmail on your phone, you will need to put in a lock code on your phone.

Jeff

[Jeff Grossman]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:52 AM, Diane <depf...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's what I was trying to explain, Kenneth.  I know 2SV has been applied to my Google account (not to any specific computer or device) and also just confirmed it is in effect.  But I don't log in to Gmail on the phone.  I simply click on its icon.  It's as if I'm signed in as happens on my computers unless I sign out.  To repeat from my original post, at the store, the salesperson and I both had difficulty in having my password recognized.  It was repeatedly rejected and suddenly worked once at which point I provided her a code from the printouts I had made.  She made some comment that to avoid that trouble again she was going to do [something].  So now I access Gmail via its icon.  My expectation was that I would at least have to input my password because of 2SV if I opted to "trust" the computer and not require a verif. code.

I don't understand how app passwords work, but I was looking into that on my own.  That's when I decided to write to this group.  You have suggested I "see if an app/device specific password has been setup for that device."  If the salesperson did this, she didn't tell me.  How do I check to see if such a password has been set up?

Diane,

I think your device is automatically trusted.  If you want to secure your device, you would need to put a Lock Code on your phone (I think Kenneth suggested this).  I guess Google thinks that your phone is always with you and you secure it better than you do your computer.

An app password let's me/you use a program that needs to connect to Google, but does not understand Google's 2SV.  One example would be Microsoft Outlook.  If you wanted to use Microsoft Outlook with your Gmail you would need an app password.  You create this unique password via the 2SV website and use it as your password for that specific program instead of your usual password.

If you were able to connect using your password and you supplied a code from your printout sheet, then you did not use an app/device password with your new phone.  I'm not sure why your password did not take originally.

Jeff

[Jeff Grossman]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 5:50 AM, Diane <depf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Jeff, why aren't your comments being delivered to me at Gmail?

~D.

Diane,

I'm not sure.  Since I am guessing you do not have it set to send you an e-mail for all topics, did you select to have that topic e-mailed to you?  I'm not 100% sure how to do that since I don't use that feature, but click icon in the upper right of the screen under Groups which says My Settings and select My topic email subscriptions.  You might be able to set it there.  I included a screen shot.

Jeff

[DEP/Dodo]

​

I'm aware of this, Ken.  It just happened that when I posted my initial msg. on this topic, I happened to be in Gmail.  I have since replied within the group's site and am receiving at least some msgs. via Gmail now.  Certainly yours.  Don't know why not Jeff's, however.  Also, my membership setting is to "Automatically subscribe me to email updates when I post to a topic."

​

[DEP/Dodo]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 7:44 AM, Kenneth Ayers <justk...@gmail.com> wrote:

Diane,

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:52 AM, Diane <depf...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's what I was trying to explain, Kenneth.  I know 2SV has been applied to my Google account (not to any specific computer or device) and also just confirmed it is in effect.  But I don't log in to Gmail on the phone.  I simply click on its icon.

Logging into an account on your mobile device is different than logging into an account via a computer. Rather than going to a browser on your phone and logging in, you launch an app which establishes a device connection to your account.  Typically it's a one-time login.  If you look around in the Gmail app, you'll notice there isn't a logout option anywhere.

​Again, if you're referring to that app password thing, I don't understand that and don't want to do anything w/o guidance.  The salesperson should have told me about that since she said she had Gmail and knew about 2SV on her own computer.

So, yes, you'll stay logged into your Gmail account unless you go to your device settings and entirely remove the account from your phone.  The best protection for your Gmail account on your phone is to keep your phone with you and to setup a phone screen lock.

​But if I entirely removed my account from the phone, how would I use Gmail? 

As I replied previously, locking the phone or screen or whatever gets locked sounds great, and the phone's online user's manual has info on that.  If it's "the best protection" and seems doable on my own is ideal!  But I've only read (a little) about that password app thing.  Seems the best protection for everything on the phone, not just my Google account, is the lock.  Please confirm.

[DEP/Dodo]

Yay, now I'm getting your msgs. in Gmail, Jeff!  My preference is always to receive msgs. in Gmail.  As mentioned already, I initiated this topic via Gmail rather than at Gmail Users. 

Also, you wrote:  " . . . or after write the e-mail in Gmail, go into the Groups interface and select that option for the message/thread."  If I understood you correctly, that's what I did.  See my earlier msg. of this a.m.

~Diane

​​

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Gmail-Users" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/gmail-users/tslZuKoquOk/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to gmail-users...@googlegroups.com.

[Jeff Grossman]

Diane,

Had you replied to any of the messages via the group's site when you weren't receiving my messages?  Maybe that setting "Automatically subscribe me to email updates when I post to a topic" only works when you use the web interface.  Since you have since posted a message from the web interface you should probably receive all messages from this topic/thread to your Gmail now.

If you don't mind receiving every message, it might be better to just turn on the option to receive all messages from this group.  That way you can do read and post from Gmail and not have to visit the web interface to see if you missed anything.

Jeff

[Jeff Grossman]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 12:38 PM, DEP/Dodo <depf...@gmail.com> wrote:

As I replied previously, locking the phone or screen or whatever gets locked sounds great, and the phone's online user's manual has info on that.  If it's "the best protection" and seems doable on my own is ideal!  But I've only read (a little) about that password app thing.  Seems the best protection for everything on the phone, not just my Google account, is the lock.  Please confirm.

Diane,

Yes, the lock on your phone is the best option, and yes it will protect everything on your phone not just Gmail.

Jeff

[Jeff Grossman]

Great, glad to hear things are working correctly now.

Jeff

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Gmail-Users" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to gmail-users...@googlegroups.com.

[Diane]

No, absolutely not about the wrong password!  Yes, I excel at hitting the wrong keys, but then the salesperson also had problems.  We both were not hitting a wrong key every time!  Again, she was finally successful and input one of my verif. codes.  Later I read in Google somewhere that certain phones such as my Android do not recognize such passwords, and that's where I first learned of the existence of password apps or app passwords or whatever they're called.  And since I do not understand them, I immediately launched my first post on this thread.

[Diane]

I keep asking:  Is this better/preferable to a password app thingie?

On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 9:25:55 AM UTC-7, Jeff Grossman wrote:

What doesn't work that way with Gmail on the phone?

Jeff

[Diane]

Yay and thank you, Jeff!

[Diane]

Another thank you for this info, Jeff.  The phone is a Samsung Galaxy, and the online user's manual discusses locking techniques that I just haven't had time yet to read.  Mention is made of a PIN or password or connecting lines and such.  But at least now I can stop worrying about an app password and just lock the phone, which is overall protection.  Excellent!

I am so appreciative of having this group to turn to with helpful Knowledgeable Ones like you and Ken!  And now I need to learn how to "speak" smartphone.

On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 9:25:55 AM UTC-7, Jeff Grossman wrote:

[DEP/Dodo]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 7:44 AM, Kenneth Ayers <justk...@gmail.com> wrote:

Diane,

Logging into an account on your mobile device is different than logging into an account via a computer. Rather than going to a browser on your phone and logging in, you launch an app which establishes a device connection to your account.  Typically it's a one-time login.  If you look around in the Gmail app, you'll notice there isn't a logout option anywhere.

​Did not understand most of this, Ken.  And if you're referring to a password app, Jeff has written​ that that involves other than Gmail. 

 

So, yes, you'll stay logged into your Gmail account unless you go to your device settings and entirely remove the account from your phone.  The best protection for your Gmail account on your phone is to keep your phone with you and to setup a phone screen lock.

​Don't know how to remove my Google account from my phone and don't want to!  I will go with the phone screen lock both you and Jeff have mentioned.  Thank you for that!

[DEP/Dodo]

Jeff, what about this?​  This is exactly what got me started inquiring about an app password.  If I read your recent post correctly, I thought you said an app password was for other things like Outlook.?

[Jeff Grossman]

Diane,

I don't have an Android so I can't speak with 100% certainty, but if an app password is used I don't think it will ask for the verification code.  Since you put in a verification code after entering in your password, I don't think your phone used an app password this time.  For some reason it just had an issue with your password.  But, everything appears to be fine now and would not worry about it.  I would not worry about an app password unless the time comes when you need one.  Which I don't think you will.

Jeff

--

[Jeff Grossman]

You are very welcome Diane.  I am sure you are going to enjoy your new smartphone.  You will wonder how you lived so long without it.

Jeff

--

[Jeff Grossman]

Diane,

Previously you needed an app password for almost anything that was going to connect to your Google account.  Google has changed the way they have their sign-on system and this no longer applies.  I surprised they have not updated that help page.

Jeff

--

[Jeff Grossman]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 1:12 PM, Diane <depf...@gmail.com> wrote:

I keep asking:  Is this better/preferable to a password app thingie?

What password app thingie?  Are you talking about a Google App Password?  You only need a Google App Password if the software package/device you are using to connect to you Google account/Gmail does not understand 2SV.  Your Android phone understands 2SV because it asked for a verification code when you signed in.  You do not need to worry about a Google App Password.

There is no way to trust the device in Gmail on the phone.  Once you sign in the first time your device is automatically trusted and you no longer have to enter in a password or a verification code.

Jeff

[DEP/Dodo]

I want to make it so nobody can get into anything on my phone.

~Diane

[DEP/Dodo]

Several people have said this, and I have always thought I would like it and wonder how I lived w/o it.  But I also know me and know I will compulsively want to know everything yesterday!  Forget eating, sleeping, and all signs of normalcy.  That's one reason I have put it off.  But I also am looking forward to learning and doing, especially now that this code business seems to be resolved.

~Diane

[Jeff Grossman]

Diane,

I know what you mean.  I am the same way.  When I get something new I am usually tinkering with it for a while, usually skipping meals and sleep.  Have fun learning.

Jeff

--

[Jeff Grossman]

Diane,

A lock code on your phone will make it so nobody can get in your phone at all without the lock code.

Jeff

[DEP/Dodo]

I think we are soulmates, Jeff!  Insanity soulmates.

~Diane

[Jeff Grossman]

Pretty funny Diane.  Hope you are getting some sleep.

Jeff

--

[DEP/Dodo]

Not much!!  This is my very first msg. and it only took 10x as long to to write!

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Gmail-Users" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/gmail-users/tslZuKoquOk/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to gmail-users...@googlegroups.com.