Will Gmail EVER get Folders??

[cdKing]

Will Gmail Ever get folders, and for that matter, why doesn't it have
them already??

I have searched on this question in the archives and web but have not
found any adequate answer thus far.

I really like Gmail, but I am perplexed why folders, which are such a
basic and usually standard feature of every other mail program that
I've ever used, are completely missing from Gmail.

Folders are a universally recognized method for grouping and storing
related documents. It is almost a necessity to use folders whenever
the number of documents one handles grows very large and need
organizing. Ironically, I originally switched to Gmail because it had
so much space for storing messages, but only later realized that it
offers no effective means for organizing them.

And I'm sorry... I know that some tout Gmail's "labels" feature as
being a an alternative to folders, but labels simply don't cut it for
organizing messages. Here's an analogy... if I've got a disorganized
jumble of documents sitting atop my desk, and I take the time to
attach easy-to-read, color-catogorized labels at the top of each
document, but still leave all the documents in a big jumbled pile,
that doesn't make them organized. All it does is make it slightly
easier to spot documents of similar kind in the pile. I still have to
shuffle through the entire pile each time I'm looking for a specific
document. On the other hand, if I take all the documents in the
jumble and group those with the same labels into like-labeled folders,
THEN they become organized. The proof is that I have far less
documents to filter through to find one that I'm looking for.

Now I could understand why folders have never been developed if Google/
Gmail development was, by nature, fairly stagnant. But this is
GOOGLE, for heaven's sake... with Google Labs... epicenter of
innovation... so why, considering all the only-marginally-useful to
flat-out-wacky features that have been developed for Gmail by the
labs, have they never created an add-on feature for folders. I'm not a
developer, but is it something in the architecture of Gmail that
prevents this from being developed?

Any explanation would be appreciated.

CDK

[Ryan Morehart]

Inline replies.

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:56 AM, cdKing<cdki...@gmail.com> wrote:
> All it does is make it slightly easier to spot documents of similar
> kind in the pile.

I actually use that for going through spam, a lot of stuff I need that
lands there gets autolabled so it sticks out. ;)

> I still have to shuffle through the entire pile each time I'm looking for a specific
> document.

Search?

> On the other hand, if I take all the documents in the
> jumble and group those with the same labels into like-labeled folders,
> THEN they become organized.

Label and then archive to get it out of your inbox. The label behaves
exactly like a folder then. You don't have to leave them out on the
cluttered desktop of your inbox though (which is really just a label
of "Inbox"). The only place you'll always see all your mail is the
appropriately titled "All mail," which you never have to click if you
don't want to. In fact, with the menu update that Gmail came out with
fairly recently, you don't even have to see that it exists really.

The benefit of the label is you can put it in multiple folders if you want.

> I'm not a developer, but is it something in the architecture of Gmail that
> prevents this from being developed?

Basically it has. In fact, with the "move to" menu that can
automatically label and archive in one step, it even looks that way
most of the time.

Ryan

[Sean Murphy]

    Google's main strength is in searching. Gmail is organized around rapid search functions, and lots of ways to shortcut searches. You can search for a sender, search for a subject line, search for words in the body, and you can create labels that are shortcuts for any of these searches. And filters to automatically conduct those searches and apply the shortcut labels as soon as emails arrive. Google's motto for Gmail from day one was "Search, don't sort". Folder are simply a way of sorting. Labels are the search equivalent.

-Semper in excretum sum sed alta variat

[Andy]

> I have searched on this question in the archives and web but have not
> found any adequate answer thus far.

In my opinion, there have been plenty of "adequate" answers to this question
already. Apparently though, they weren't the answers you wanted.

Folders are a part of almost every other mail program, but that doesn't mean
Gmail needs to be a "me too" program. Instead, they did this a little
differently. They innovated.

> ... Ironically, I originally switched to Gmail because it had

> so much space for storing messages, but only later realized that it
> offers no effective means for organizing them.

I highly disagree! I have tens of thousands of emails (and growing),
organized with the use of about 235 labels. I think of the labels as
folders ... except that they are more flexible than folders. If that isn't
an effective means for organizing them I don't know what is.

> And I'm sorry... I know that some tout Gmail's "labels" feature as
> being a an alternative to folders, but labels simply don't cut it for
> organizing messages. Here's an analogy... if I've got a disorganized
> jumble of documents sitting atop my desk, and I take the time to
> attach easy-to-read, color-catogorized labels at the top of each
> document, but still leave all the documents in a big jumbled pile,
> that doesn't make them organized.

This might be a minor point, but they aren't in a "disorganized jumble"
sitting atop your desk. They are in one neat but large stack. Not that it
matters, though.

The labels make it trivial to find them! Just as easy as using folders.
Just select the label (folder) you want, and there they are.

> I still have to
> shuffle through the entire pile each time I'm looking for a specific
> document.

I don't know why you need to shuffle through anything. I don't. I just
click on the label name, and voila, there are the messages I'm looking for,
just as if they were in a folder. And I didn't need to start with the whole
pile, or do any shuffling.

> On the other hand, if I take all the documents in the
> jumble and group those with the same labels into like-labeled folders,
> THEN they become organized. The proof is that I have far less
> documents to filter through to find one that I'm looking for.

If you can organize them with folders, why can't you organize them exactly
the same way with labels?

Would it make you happier if Google renamed "label" to "folder", but kept
them functionally the same as they are now?

What can you do with folders that you can't do with Gmail's labels?

> ... so why, considering all the only-marginally-useful to
> flat-out-wacky features that have been developed for Gmail by the
> labs, have they never created an add-on feature for folders. I'm not a
> developer, but is it something in the architecture of Gmail that
> prevents this from being developed?
>
> Any explanation would be appreciated.

I can't explain for Google because I don't work for them, and as far as we
know, nobody in this email group does.

But my guess is this: Probably because, with labels, they don't need
folders. Labels provide as much ability to organize your emails (and then
some), as folders do. If you treat labels exactly like folders, doesn't
that do everything you want folders to do?

The one thing you haven't mentioned, is subfolders, and that is a
shortcoming of labels. But even that can be handled by using creative label
names. And Google may be considering adding sublabels.

But I do realize Gmail (like any other email program) isn't for everyone,
and if it isn't for you, nobody is forcing you to keep using it.

Andy

[North Country Maturing Gardener]

Another point in favor of labels is that you can put the letter in
multiple groups. Sometimes a folder is too limiting. With Labels, a
letter can be put in seperate groups like: photo's, friends, church,
etc. You can call up ANY of those groups and find the letter there.
Or you can just type in a name, and voila...there are all the letters
to and from that person. When I used Entourage, sometimes a letter
didn't fit neatly into any category. With gmail you can use as many
labels as seem appropriate.

[Zack (Doc)]

The thing I find most interesting about this, is that the most common use of folders computer users are aware of is their Hard Drive.  What they fail to realize is, that the "folders" they see there, are really just labels.  Unix users tend to know this, though they're used to the term "inodes", but most Windows/MAC users (meaning pre-unix MacOS) aren't.

--

H. L. Mencken  - "A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin."

[Andy]

Over time I have found another thing useful about labels as opposed to
folders. When I am searching for some piece of information, and looking in
one of my Gmail folders ... er, labels ... Gmail displays every message's
label. Of course most of them are the label I'm already looking at, but
there may be messages there that I filed with more than one label, and Gmail
shows this to me. In many cases, this have given me an "Oh, yes!" moment,
and points me in the direction of the other label which might also have some
answers or related information that I am looking for.

Folders don't do that.

Andy

[cdKing]

Ok... well, having started this thread, I appreciate all the feedback
that you have all have offered re my question about the absence of
Gmail folders. I certainly have learned more about gmail labels...
both their functionality, which, I must say wasn't very clear to me
until now, and the fact that they were intended as an innovative
alternative to folders.

> I don't know why you need to shuffle through anything. I don't. I just
> click on the label name, and voila, there are the messages I'm looking for,
> just as if they were in a folder. And I didn't need to start with the whole
> pile, or do any shuffling

Yes, hard to believe I suppose for seasoned Gmail users, but the fact
that you clicking on a label filters by that label is not a self-
evident function...so I never realized that you could do this until I
read these posts. So now your fervent appreciation for labels is much
more understandable.

Nevertheless, I still beg to differ on this point...

> but they aren't in a "disorganized jumble"
> sitting atop your desk. They are in one neat but large stack. Not that it
> matters, though.

Ah... but it does matter!... at least to some of us. After years of
using e-mail, I find that I cannot disassociate my notion of the e-
mail "inbox" from the analogous in-box on my kitchen counter wherein I
place recently received snail-mail before I've had a chance to review
it, For me, leaving all my e-messages in my inbox is like never
clearing out that box. My wife would have a fit :-). Thus, for me, the
beauty of folders is that once you put file away your messages in
them, you don't have to look at them again unless you want to. Now I
know that may seem silly to some, but I simply don't want to see most
of my messages after I've read them. The only exception is messages
that contain really important "urgent...must-do" type of information.
This way, my inbox can doubles as a sort of "to-do" list.

Also,the point about labels not providing any analagy to sub-folders
is a point well taken, and one I did mean to mention originally.

But I certainly concede after having learned that Gmail's lack of
folder's is clearly by design and not simply because they just never
bothered to add it in, I now view the omission in considerably
different light.

Much thanks to you all.

Chris

[Zack (Doc)]

Chris,

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 01:35, cdKing <cdki...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ah... but it does matter!... at least to some of us.  After years of
using e-mail, I find that I cannot disassociate my notion of the e-
mail "inbox" from the analogous in-box on my kitchen counter wherein I
place recently received snail-mail before I've had a chance to review
it, For me, leaving all my e-messages in my inbox is like never
clearing out that box. My wife would have a fit :-). Thus, for me, the
beauty of folders is that once you put file away your messages in
them, you don't have to look at them again unless you want to. Now I
know that may seem silly to some, but I simply don't want to see most
of my messages after I've read them.  The only exception is messages
that contain really important "urgent...must-do" type of information.
This way, my inbox can doubles as a  sort of "to-do" list.

 

I also use this analogy, but you seem to have missed a post or two which should clear this up for you.  My point being, "You don't have to leave them in your in-box; and you can use the in-box as your 'to-do'"  The in-box to GMail is just another label that most mail gets applied when received.  There are 3 exceptions to this that I can think of; Spam, Filtered, and Mute.  Spam only gets the Spam label.  You can set a filter (or Mail Fetcher, same concept) to "Skip the Inbox".  If you use the "Mute" feature, you can keep threads (like this one) from showing back up in the inbox.

When you've completed the "urgent... must-do" task for an email, just remove the inbox label then.  The beauty of labels is that you can decide how you later want to "file" the message while it's still in the inbox, whereas folders you can't do that until you're ready to remove it.  That, plus you can have it reachable in multiple places, while a folder means you only have it in one place.  You can remove the inbox label by clicking "Archive" or the little "x" next to the Inbox label while viewing it.  Here's a Help Center article on archiving, which includes a video (http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=6576)

Also,the point about labels not providing any analagy to sub-folders
is a point well taken, and one I did mean to mention originally.

Sub-folders, as sub-labels, are something I've bemoaned not having, but with the ability to hide labels from view; while they continue to exist, has really made this less of an issue for me.  I think some people put out too many labels anyway.  It helps to remember that labels are really just a shortcut to searching, that groups messages together you wouldn't easily associate with a search.  As an example, I hear of people with a "Family" label.  I don't have one as when I'm looking for something related to family I just search "from:parents OR wife OR children OR to:parents OR wife OR children" and I have all the messages.  I use a label for "Boy Scouts" as not everyone has an easy to remember address, and sometimes automated systems send out messages that might be about scouting, or might not, so the label helps me keep just the ones related to scouting.

[Andy]

> Ah... but it does matter!... at least to some of us. After years of
> using e-mail, I find that I cannot disassociate my notion of the e-
> mail "inbox" from the analogous in-box on my kitchen counter wherein I
> place recently received snail-mail before I've had a chance to review
> it, For me, leaving all my e-messages in my inbox is like never
> clearing out that box. My wife would have a fit :-). Thus, for me, the
> beauty of folders is that once you put file away your messages in
> them, you don't have to look at them again unless you want to. Now I
> know that may seem silly to some, but I simply don't want to see most
> of my messages after I've read them. The only exception is messages
> that contain really important "urgent...must-do" type of information.
> This way, my inbox can doubles as a sort of "to-do" list.

I keep my Inbox empty too.

I think there's one more important feature about Gmail that you've missed.
Unfortunately, Google didn't use the best choice of words here, which might
be why you didn't notice it.

The "large stack" of messages I was referring to, wasn't the Inbox. It was
the All Mail. That is where everything is kept, other than spam and deleted
messages.

The Inbox is just a temporary area where you can keep (usually) the most
recent messages. It itself is a label too, or if you prefer, a folder. By
default, new emails get delivered to the Inbox. It's up to you to move them
out, whenever you choose to.

Google uses the term "Archive" to mean "take this message out of the Inbox."
And taking it out of the Inbox is all that it does; it doesn't do anything
else. The message was already in your All Mail area, but it was also
visible when you looked at your Inbox; and by clicking the Archive button,
you make it no longer show up in the Inbox.

You can either click Archive while displaying a single message, or you can
highlight any number of messages at once (by clicking on the little check-
boxes next to them) and then click the Archive button to take all of them
out of the Inbox.

You might ask, why did Google do it this way, rather than automatically
taking them out of the Inbox when you read them? Probably because not
everyone wants their mail to automatically leave the Inbox when they read
them. "Inbox" is not a synonym for "Unread." Some people even prefer to
use the Inbox to hold ALL their emails, forever; and it's perfectly OK to do
that too if it suits you. So Gmail leaves it up to you to get them out of
the Inbox, at your choosing.

If you always scan your new messages and clear them out of the Inbox every
time, then just click the "Select: All" hyperlink (under the Archive
button), and click Archive, and your Inbox will become empty again. If you
want some left in the Inbox, just unselect those before clicking Archive.

There are a few other ways to move emails out of the Inbox.

You can have a Filter do that automatically when the mail arrives, which you
might do if you want some messages to never show up in the Inbox. They will
be received, and saved (under All Mail and optionally with any labels you
also attached to them using Filters), but just won't show up in the Inbox.

Or you can use the "Move to" button. "Move to" works just like the "Labels"
button except that it ALSO Archives the messages (takes them out of the
Inbox), all in one step. I think Google added the "Move to" button to make
it seem more like other email programs where you do move a message to a
folder, whereas it used to be a two-step process (first add the label, then
take it out of the Inbox).

I hope this has helped.

Andy

[JohnW]

Just to add a 'late comment' - sub folders have actually existed in
Gmail for a long time!
Use Label A/Sub-label B/Sub-sub-label C as the method of creating.
[Yes, it's back to *nix!!!]
[The problem with sub-labels is not that they don't exist, but that
unless you employ Greasemonkey (and the Folders4Gmail Jscript or
similar) to modify the UI display, they show as just another label!!]
This isn't truly surprising, since the Gmail display is fundamentally
"textual" whereas most users who desire "sub-labels" want to see them
*graphically* associated.

However, I must commend Andy and Zack on the clarity of their
explanation, in response to a very common misapprehension.

[JustKenneth]

I gather you haven't begun using the Archive button yet.

You want your inbox empty except for new, incoming mail or things that still need a response.  So do I.  Gmail supports this.

For those emails you've already processed and labeled, take them a step further and "archive" them.  Archive removes the email from your inbox listing. 

In short labeling and archiving an email is the same as moving an email from the inbox to a folder.  You can also create filters that will label/archive incoming emails based on your given criteria all at once.

Kenneth

[Zack (Doc)]

Actually, you don't even have to employ Greasemonkey... just access the account through IMAP, it will show up as sub-folders that way too.

--

Howard Dietz  - "I don't like composers who think. It gets in the way of their plagiarism."

[McGehee]

I get several emails per day from the same source and I want to be
able to move each of them to different labels, but I can only seem to
be able to move all or none. They are all grouped together in my
inbox and when I select one and then select "Move to" all the emails
in that grouping are moved. How do I move individual emails to
different labels?

McGehee

[Andy]

> I get several emails per day from the same source and I want to be
> able to move each of them to different labels, but I can only seem to
> be able to move all or none. They are all grouped together in my
> inbox and when I select one and then select "Move to" all the emails
> in that grouping are moved. How do I move individual emails to
> different labels?

Unfortunately, currently you can't. Presumably yours got grouped together
because they all had the same Subject. Gmail insists on grouping them
together, and so far there's no way to undo that grouping. It was on the
"wish list" long ago, but hasn't been acted on yet so my guess is Google
doesn't want to do that.

(Well, you can delete single messages out of a conversation. If you
un-delete a deleted message, it will instantly re-group again.)

Andy

[Fuzzy Logic]

You cannot do that. Labels are per conversation, though there are some
weird issues with that...

[Marko Vukovic]

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 5:21 PM, McGehee<alli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I get several emails per day from the same source and I want to be
> able to move each of them to different labels, but I can only seem to
> be able to move all or none.  They are all grouped together in my
> inbox and when I select one and then select "Move to" all the emails
> in that grouping are moved.  How do I move individual emails to
> different labels?

Hi McGehee

If you want this behaviour then use a conventional email client (eg.
Mozilla Thunderbird) and connect to Gmail using IMAP. Have you tried
using filters?

Regards
--
Marko