Why does "mute" not work like it should?

[Andy]

I need to ask a basic question, because it appears I don't understand it after all:

What does "Mute" do, anyway?  Or, in other words, why does a "muted" conversation keep reappearing in my Inbox?

The Help says:

When you mute a conversation, new messages added to the conversation bypass your inbox so that the conversation stays archived.

Muted conversations will only pop back into your inbox ready for your attention if a new message in the conversation is addressed to you and no one else, or if you're added to the "To" or "Cc" line in a new message.

OK, that sounds well and good ... but neither of those conditions is true.  The conversation is in an email list and none of the messages are addressed to me.

In case it matters, I use the traditional Inbox.

So what's going on?

Thanks,

Andy

[Marko Vukovic]

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 3:28 AM, Andy <AI.e...@gmail.com> wrote:

OK, that sounds well and good ... but neither of those conditions is true.  The conversation is in an email list and none of the messages are addressed to me.

I can only guess that there is a header that has your name/address on it. How else would the message get delivered to you?

--

Marko

[Andy]

On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 10:25 PM, Marko Vukovic <marko....@gmail.com> wrote:

I can only guess that there is a header that has your name/address on it. How else would the message get delivered to you?

But that's true of every e-mail list (Google Group, Yahoo Group, etc.) message, right?

So if every message I ever receive has my address somewhere in either the visible or hidden header lines, then how could Mute possibly do anything at all?  Anyway, the Help description refers specifically to the To: and CC: lines.  My address is not in those.

Andy

[Zack (Doc)]

You are correct in that is how mute is supposed to work.  I have had it work in the past successfully, but only as a test because I don't like that method of mail box maintenance (personal preferences).

The help states that the mute is off if you are added to the TO and CC lines; which implies to me that not only THAT message is unmuted, but all future are unmuted as well.  Is it possible there is a message back in the thread that matched that, or that you've replied to (it's my understanding that replying unmutes as well and requires a specific re-mute)?  Otherwise, I'd say it's a new bug and you should report it.

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[Andy]

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 8:08 AM, Zack (Doc) <za...@tnan.net> wrote:

The help states that the mute is off if you are added to the TO and CC lines; which implies to me that not only THAT message is unmuted, but all future are unmuted as well.  Is it possible there is a message back in the thread that matched that, or that you've replied to (it's my understanding that replying unmutes as well and requires a specific re-mute)?  Otherwise, I'd say it's a new bug and you should report it.

I think it must be the latter.  The situations I kept seeing involved a thread I never participated in, and none of the messages were directly addressed to me.  It is a maillist I am subscribed do, as a "read-only" member so far, and that particular thread was of no interest to me.  Every new message yesterday made it re-appear in my Inbox, with "Muted" on the Subject line in the message list.  Every time, I would re-mute it, but then the next message would un-mute it, but leave it tagged as "Muted".

I do use "mute" occasionally and have not had this problem before, so I wondered if I was seeing a bug or if it just doesn't work the way I thought it should.

Thanks,

Andy

[Zack (Doc)]

Interesting... if the label Muted was on it, I don't think it got unmuted, just displayed... Hate to say this, did you try clearing cache and cookies?  I've had messages I KNOW I archived still show in inbox, until I did that.  Something in my local system was still managing to show them... very weird.

[Andy]

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Zack (Doc) <za...@tnan.net> wrote:

Interesting... if the label Muted was on it, I don't think it got unmuted, just displayed... Hate to say this, did you try clearing cache and cookies?  I've had messages I KNOW I archived still show in inbox, until I did that.  Something in my local system was still managing to show them... very weird.

I will try.  Didn't think to do that.

The conversation only reappeared in the Inbox after a new message arrived.  Until then, it was still fully muted.

Andy

[Zack (Doc)]

That brings up an interesting point.  If you're using conversation view (I can't imagine Mute working without it, but...) it's a common mistake (I make it all the time) to think of threads as labeled, when in fact it's individual messages that are labeled.  That *1* message that had just come in when you saw it unmuted, must have been why it showed up; that ONE was not muted; but the others were, so it still showed the label.  And it keeps repeating, at least every few messages or so (unless you're watching it like a hawk and it is definitely EVERY message that's doing it).  I'm still inclined to believe there is something different about the thread coming in, in a few messages at least, that is subverting the Mute label.  The whole thread is muted, except that one that keeps kicking it back to the inbox.

That's an idea... turn off conversation view and see which messages of that thread are ACTUALLY in the inbox when it happens next.  Then you can focus on anything different about them.

[Andy]

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Zack (Doc) <za...@tnan.net> wrote:

That brings up an interesting point.  If you're using conversation view (I can't imagine Mute working without it, but...) it's a common mistake (I make it all the time) to think of threads as labeled, when in fact it's individual messages that are labeled.

I had been thinking about that.

Except, I think the "muted" tag must work differently in that regard.  Every new message in the same thread presumably arrives without that tag applied to it, so Gmail should be able to keep the thread muted even if only some of the messages carry that tag.

Unless perhaps they changed the algorithm recently, without realizing that what they did killed the Mute feature.

That's an idea... turn off conversation view and see which messages of that thread are ACTUALLY in the inbox when it happens next.  Then you can focus on anything different about them.

This is what I did tonight:

I found the conversation sitting in my Inbox again.  I muted it again (you have to un-mute it first, then re-mute it).

Within 3 minutes, it is back in my Inbox.  Why?  Because, by coincidence, a new message just arrived.  I muted it AGAIN.

Then I turned off Conversation View and found all the messages.  All of them have the "muted" tag, except three.

I select one of them and mute it,  It picks up the "muted" tag.

I then select the other two and mute them too.  They MOMENTARILY show the "muted" tag, then within a second, it disappears!  This is weird.  And 100% repeatable.  It is impossible to attach a "muted" tag to those two messages and have it stick.  Teflon?

I check the messages (Show Original) for anything unique to me.  Only the very first header line ("Delivered-To: <...>") is, and it's in every message.  My name/address appear nowhere else.

Then I noticed the three messages that did NOT have the "muted" tag, have a subtle difference in their Subject line, compared to the others; which means they are in a different Conversation than the one that's been giving me all this trouble.

So I don't know what is going on.  I think it's haunted.

Andy